Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I would have to expand my thinking to imagine some of my patients let loose with a syringe of anything and giving IV Rx - but I know you have wide experience with DMSO - it is so unavailable here in Australia that I am fortunate enough to have had an American patient send me some, but I wouldn't feel confident giving DMSO IV myself. Only because I don't know the substance well enough yet other than as a topical application. Jane > Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > learn how to inject IM and IV, as well as subcutaneously > which works very well in animals. My vet has had me > administer this way to a dog. > > Slowly push the dose of DMSO into the vein to avoid > lysing any blood cells. It is a standard treatment and a > way to administer DMSO to an unconscious individual. > > Lysing blood cells is not life threatening, strokes and heart > attacks are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I would advise when ever one gives DMSO intravenously, to first filter it through one of the Millipore sterile syringe filters before actually injecting. Similar to this one: http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=2995074 Garnet is quite right. I have also been in the animal business for years and the knowledge and skill to give proper aseptic IV injections as a must. I have done it not only with DMSO, but weak Hydrochloric acid solutions that combat major systemic infections in sick animals. It is a much easier technique when one is injecting sterile solutions like DMSO and HCL then other liquids. One just needs to filter out any possible particulates that might be present in non-USP on NF solutions. doug Re: Slow IV Push >I would have to expand my thinking to imagine some of my patients let loose > with a syringe of anything and giving IV Rx - but I know you have wide > experience with DMSO - it is so unavailable here in Australia that I am > fortunate enough to have had an American patient send me some, but I > wouldn't feel confident giving DMSO IV myself. Only because I don't know > the > substance well enough yet other than as a topical application. > > Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well, Ms. Jane, it's time for you to experiment a little; the more the better and the sooner the better so you can get up to speed with this solution; it's a miracle for the people. I, personally, irrigate my Bladder via a 100% Silicone 14F Foley Cath. I press in 30cc 2% Hydrogen Peroxide followed by 5cc to 8cc of 50% DMSO, wait 20 minutes, release the Cath, about every 10 days; hence, no bacteria, no Urinary symptoms. Also, I rub it on skin, spray on knees and add it to a nebulizer with H/P for inhalation therapy. I don't need the nebulizer, only trying to see if it's any good for me. DMSO is harmless within limits; a wonderful pain reliever, a mild Anti-biotic and it normalizes tissue. That's my take so far, Obie. _____ From: DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO [mailto:DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO ] On Behalf Of Jane MacRoss Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:20 AM To: DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO Subject: Re: Slow IV Push I would have to expand my thinking to imagine some of my patients let loose with a syringe of anything and giving IV Rx - but I know you have wide experience with DMSO - it is so unavailable here in Australia that I am fortunate enough to have had an American patient send me some, but I wouldn't feel confident giving DMSO IV myself. Only because I don't know the substance well enough yet other than as a topical application. Jane From: " Garnet " <garnetridge@ <mailto:garnetridge%40granitepoint.net> granitepoint.net> > Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > learn how to inject IM and IV, as well as subcutaneously > which works very well in animals. My vet has had me > administer this way to a dog. > > Slowly push the dose of DMSO into the vein to avoid > lysing any blood cells. It is a standard treatment and a > way to administer DMSO to an unconscious individual. > > Lysing blood cells is not life threatening, strokes and heart > attacks are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well, never having given myself or my animals any type of shot, I'm a bit hesitant. Though I do watch Dad give himself insulin every day--so I do know that that part is easy. Hitting the veins COULD be easy if a person or animal had nice, visible veins. My problem is that I have tough skin (which requires them to push harder to get through) and deep veins, which also means that many times they have to stick me a couple times to hit a vein. A GOOD nurse will hit it the first time, but most don't. At least my veins don't roll. I have given blood enough so that if I had to, in an emergency, I do think I would be able to hit a vein on me or anyone. I hope I never have to do this, but---. I know that to make sure you have a vein you pull back on the plunger to see a bit of blood. I know about not putting air into the syringe (due to me having to make up Dad's insulin shots for him) to be injected into the blood. What I don't know is what would be considered slow push. I know on hospital IV's they can set a clamp to regulate how much goes in, at what speed. But how would this be accomplished at home? Is there something a person is able to buy without having a prescription, that could give a regulated IV at home? I'm assuming that by slow push, in an animal, you mean just very very slowly pushing on the plunger in the syringe, and not setting up an IV--because it would be hard to keep an animal down for an IV. But--how slow is slow? How much does it matter? What can happen when DMSO is pushed too fast? What is lysing? thanks > Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > learn how to inject IM and IV, as well as subcutaneously > which works very well in animals. My vet has had me > administer this way to a dog. > > Slowly push the dose of DMSO into the vein to avoid > lysing any blood cells. It is a standard treatment and a > way to administer DMSO to an unconscious individual. > > Lysing blood cells is not life threatening, strokes and heart > attacks are. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 > Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > learn how to inject IM and IV, Would you have a good recommendation for how to go about learning this? I'd love to learn how... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Watch the vets after you read all you can on proper injecting technique in the Veterinary texts and Vet applied anatomy texts. You need to know the proper aseptic technique and you need to know your anatomy, where to find the vein. You also need to be intimate with what you are injecting, both solution and aniaml. Most of the time, if you are injecting a solution that is not toxic to the surrounding tissues, a mistake is pretty forgiving when it comes to IV. However, if you are giving a potentially toxic solution, i.e. like bute and some antibiotics that will cause an abscess, if you miss the vein, and potentially death----then you better be VERY careful that you are in the jugular or appropriate vein at all times. When injecting these types of substances, I always check every few injected cc's, by withdrawing blood from the vein to make sure the needle is still in the lumen and, only then, continue injecting the remaining solution. Not only this, but always be aware of the resistance it takes to actually depress the syringe. Many times outside the vein, it is much harder to push the syringe than when it is inside the vein. A tip-off! With DMSO, generally no harm would be done if the needle is outside the vein. So that is one plus. For starters, you need to be able to detect a vein location. You should be able to " pinch-it-off " and see the vein swell up, pushing the skin upwards. In long haired animals, this may be difficult and you should clip. Basically, read all you can on technique and anatomy. On the species you plan to inject, practice finding the vein over and over again, day after day, until you become skilled at pinching it off and watching it raise under the skin. In due time, when you feel efficient, you can begin. Some vets may be willing to give you instructions, but mostly, you will have to teach yourself. I have always found when trying to learn a medical procedure like this, I should read all that could go wrong and work up from there. There are almost always safe guards, fail-safes, that one can take advantage of, if you know the pit falls. doug Re: Slow IV Push > >> Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all >> learn how to inject IM and IV, > > Would you have a good recommendation for how to go about learning this? > > I'd love to learn how... > > Thanks! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 > Watch the vets after you read all you can on proper injecting > technique in the Veterinary texts and Vet applied anatomy texts. Thanks Doug... good common sense recommendations. I'm a hands on person though, so after doing the reading and legwork you recommended, I think I may try to find a 'friendly' nurse that would be willing to teach me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 A Phlebotomy course would seem to be the best recourse. --- polo wrote: > Watch the vets after you read all you can on > proper injecting technique > in the Veterinary texts and Vet applied anatomy > texts. You need to know the > proper aseptic technique and you need to know your > anatomy, where to find > the vein. You also need to be intimate with what you > are injecting, both > solution and aniaml. Most of the time, if you are > injecting a solution that > is not toxic to the surrounding tissues, a mistake > is pretty forgiving when > it comes to IV. However, if you are giving a > potentially toxic solution, > i.e. like bute and some antibiotics that will cause > an abscess, if you miss > the vein, and potentially death----then you better > be VERY careful that you > are in the jugular or appropriate vein at all times. > When injecting these > types of substances, I always check every few > injected cc's, by withdrawing > blood from the vein to make sure the needle is still > in the lumen and, only > then, continue injecting the remaining solution. > Not only this, but always > be aware of the resistance it takes to actually > depress the syringe. Many > times outside the vein, it is much harder to push > the syringe than when it > is inside the vein. A tip-off! With DMSO, generally > no harm would be done > if the needle is outside the vein. So that is one > plus. > > For starters, you need to be able to detect a > vein location. You should > be able to " pinch-it-off " and see the vein swell up, > pushing the skin > upwards. In long haired animals, this may be > difficult and you should clip. > Basically, read all you can on technique and > anatomy. On the species you > plan to inject, practice finding the vein over and > over again, day after > day, until you become skilled at pinching it off and > watching it raise under > the skin. In due time, when you feel efficient, you > can begin. Some vets may > be willing to give you instructions, but mostly, you > will have to teach > yourself. I have always found when trying to learn a > medical procedure like > this, I should read all that could go wrong and work > up from there. There > are almost always safe guards, fail-safes, that one > can take advantage of, > if you know the pit falls. > > doug > > > Re: Slow IV Push > > > > On 3/26/2008, Garnet > (garnetridge@...) wrote: > >> Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > >> learn how to inject IM and IV, > > > > Would you have a good recommendation for how to go > about learning this? > > > > I'd love to learn how... > > > > Thanks! > > > > Regards, Carol Ann ~ The only thing that is different is how you think.. http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 > A Phlebotomy course would seem to be the best > recourse. Cool... thanks Carol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 lysis /ly·sis/ (li´sis) 1. destruction or decomposition, as of a cell or other substance, under influence of a specific agent. 2. mobilization of an organ by division of restraining adhesions. 3. gradual abatement of the symptoms of a disease. Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved. Chuck My loyalties are divided between health food and high cholesterol swill On 3/26/2008 11:33:20 AM, ph Votta (gaiacita@...) > What is >lysing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Lysing of a small amount of blood cells is not as hazardous as the condition you are treating if it is as serious as stroke or heart attack. That said a slow push prevents this small amount of lysis. Slow is exactly this, slowly depressing the plunger as opposed to depressing as fast as practically possible. Garnet cking001@... wrote: > lysis /ly·sis/ (li´sis) > 1. destruction or decomposition, as of a cell or other substance, > under influence of a specific agent. > 2. mobilization of an organ by division of restraining adhesions. > 3. gradual abatement of the symptoms of a disease. > > Dorland's Medical Dictionary for Health Consumers. © 2007 by Saunders, > an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved. > > Chuck > > My loyalties are divided between health food > and high cholesterol swill > > On 3/26/2008 11:33:20 AM, ph Votta (gaiacita@...) > >> What is >> lysing? > > > ------------------------------------ > > List Home Page: > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/DimethylSulfoxide-DMSO > > Books: > DMSO Nature's Healer by Morton > MSM The Definitive Guide by Stanely MD and Appleton, NDYahoo! Groups Links > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 I started out practicing on an orange. Buy a syringe and needle at a farm supply. A 3cc syringe with a 20 ga needle is a good size, or something in that range. Part of the learning process is being able to plunge the needle into tissue without hesitation. The orange won't scream, at least not in a range audible to humans <s>. Learning to puncture human flesh is something I did when I had to do a blood lab in college in physiology. They gave us all a small lancet used to prick the finger for a blood sample. You can use a syringe needle for this. You might have trouble finding a volunteer and it is a bit difficult to do it to yourself. Takes a bit of grit and determination but this is a good practice environment because you will have almost as much reluctance to do it to another living creature. If you have a cooperative vet ask him to teach you to hit a vein on a dog. Or if you have any friends that have a working farm that administer injections to their horses it is really easy to hit a horse's jugular vein because they are too big to miss. Just some ideas . . . there are many ways to learn this skill. If I think of more I will post but right now I have to run to the Post Office and get some lunch. I think better on a full stomach! Garnet > > > > Slow push IV comes to mind. IMHO we should all > learn how > to inject IM and IV, > > Would you have a good recommendation for how to go about > learning this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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