Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

[Guest guest]

There is no difference. Misophonia is the clinical term for 4S.

>

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between 4S and

Misophonia.

> Please forgive me...I am new here and have just learned, in the past

> couple of days, what Misophonia is...and now I'm seeing this 4S

> cropping up on these posts.

>

> Thanks for any help you can give!

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm only the patient here, but I don't accept that misophonia is the clinical term for 4s. Seeing as my medical clinician (psychiatrist) has never even heard of misophonia, I would say the last word is not out on this question. To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:19:22

AMSubject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

There is no difference. Misophonia is the clinical term for 4S.

>

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between 4S and

Misophonia.

> Please forgive me...I am new here and have just learned, in the past

> couple of days, what Misophonia is...and now I'm seeing this 4S

> cropping up on these posts.

>

> Thanks for any help you can give!

>

>

[Guest guest]

By the way, Dan Malcore,I know my medical clinician is a good doctor, and he happens to also be very civil to me, these things both help me to trust in his advice to me. If I didn't know he whether or not he was a good doctor and he was also rude to me as well, I would definitely question whether he was worth putting up with as my clinician. Just something to consider....To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:19:22 AMSubject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

There is no difference. Misophonia is the clinical term for 4S.

>

> Can someone tell me what the difference is between 4S and

Misophonia.

> Please forgive me...I am new here and have just learned, in the past

> couple of days, what Misophonia is...and now I'm seeing this 4S

> cropping up on these posts.

>

> Thanks for any help you can give!

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that the jury is still out on this. I think that there are definite

links between the two, and 4S (which creates a visceral hatred of specific

sounds and desire to get away from them as opposed to 'dislike' of certain

sounds, which is the definition I've seen of misophonia) could be a subset of

misophonia.

From what I have seen on other sites (particularly the hyperacusis network)

there appears to be a diminishing of the effects of misophonia through TRT

(tinnitus retraining therapy), but this has not been seen yet in anybody who has

4S (selective sound sensitivity syndrome if you haven't come across the full

term). This implies that there is a difference between the two.

________________________________

> To: Soundsensitivity

> From: maikaefer38@...

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 05:22:35 -0800

> Subject: Re: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

>

>

> I'm only the patient here, but I don't accept that misophonia is the clinical

term for 4s. Seeing as my medical clinician (psychiatrist) has never even heard

of misophonia, I would say the last word is not out on this question.

>

> ________________________________

> From: dmalcore

> To: Soundsensitivity

> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:19:22

> AM

> Subject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

>

>

> There is no difference. Misophonia is the clinical term for 4S.

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>

>> Can someone tell me what the difference is between 4S and

>

> Misophonia.

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I personally think there's a HUGE difference. 4S produces loathing,

panic, fear of HEARING the sound (not really fearing the sound

itself), a great deal of tension, aggravation, and a lot of violent

thoughts. It can even lead to desperation and thoughts of self-harm,

particularly towards the ears.

As far as I know, misophonia only refers to fear or dislike of sound.

= M-F.

> >I agree that the jury is still out on this. I think that there are

> definite links between the two, and 4S (which creates a visceral

> hatred of specific sounds and desire to get away from them as

> opposed to 'dislike' of certain sounds, which is the definition I've

> seen of misophonia) could be a subset of misophonia.

>

> >From what I have seen on other sites (particularly the hyperacusis

> network) there appears to be a diminishing of the effects of

> misophonia through TRT (tinnitus retraining therapy), but this has

> not been seen yet in anybody who has 4S (selective sound sensitivity

> syndrome if you haven't come across the full term). This implies

> that there is a difference between the two.

>

> >

[Guest guest]

,There is quite a debate going on about the definitions of these two terms, and you may encounter one or two people here who have strong and fixed views on this.On this forum we generally use the term 4S as it describes the symptoms we have very well. Historically 4S has been mixed up with Misophonia, so until 4S is studied and found to be a distinct disorder it is lumped in with Misophonia. This is why it is referred to on this site as 4S aka Misophonia. Confusing, but hopefully it won't stay confusing for too much longer. Most people on this network are not really too fizzed up about what we call this disorder, we just want it to be studied and for some effective treatments to be found.Best wishes, and welcome.Ingrid.There is no difference. Misophonia is the clinical term for 4S.>> Can someone tell me what the difference is between 4S and Misophonia. > Please forgive me...I am new here and have just learned, in the past > couple of days, what Misophonia is...and now I'm seeing this 4S > cropping up on these posts.> > Thanks for any help you can give!> >

[Guest guest]

Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person with a

tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I have

to say that I probably disagree with you on that.

Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship, yes,

but they are not identical and one is not more clinically appropriate

than the other.

These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long run,

other names will be devised that are even better at describing the

whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.

In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely interchangeable and

people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes their

situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to say, have

never heard of either one.

And that is something we can work on, right?

Dr.

[Guest guest]

Marsha

As I have told you before, I have great respect for you as a

clinician and one who offers this forum for people with 4S (aka

misophonia). I also consider you a dear friend and have referred

many individuals to you and your forum. I have no intention of

bantering back and forth about the term. However I am entitled to my

opinion which happens to agree with Dr. Pawel Jastreboff and a host

of other medical experts in the world of hearing sensitivity. Having

said that, I certainly acknowledge that the participants of this

forum have their opinions. I listen with great interest to all their

journeys and am happy to feel welcome here.

Just my views...

Dan

>

> Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person

with a

> tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I

have

> to say that I probably disagree with you on that.

>

> Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship,

yes,

> but they are not identical and one is not more clinically

appropriate

> than the other.

>

> These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long

run,

> other names will be devised that are even better at describing the

> whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.

>

> In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely interchangeable

and

> people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes

their

> situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to say,

have

> never heard of either one.

>

> And that is something we can work on, right?

>

> Dr.

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Malcore:

I found it a bit presumptuous that you chose to answer this question with a definitive “there is no difference.” You did not, in your first reply, indicate that this was merely your opinion. Dr. founded this site, and her opinion is certainly the one that we are all here for. Although she *could* make such closed-door statements, she chooses to remain open-minded and to facilitate discussion and multiple opinions. I fear that if you continue to make these kind of statements, which are clearly inflammatory, this web site will become about debating the terms instead of what it is meant to be – a support group.

Thank you.

Reply-To: <Soundsensitivity >

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:23:17 -0000

To: <Soundsensitivity >

Subject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

Marsha

As I have told you before, I have great respect for you as a

clinician and one who offers this forum for people with 4S (aka

misophonia). I also consider you a dear friend and have referred

many individuals to you and your forum. I have no intention of

bantering back and forth about the term. However I am entitled to my

opinion which happens to agree with Dr. Pawel Jastreboff and a host

of other medical experts in the world of hearing sensitivity. Having

said that, I certainly acknowledge that the participants of this

forum have their opinions. I listen with great interest to all their

journeys and am happy to feel welcome here.

Just my views...

Dan

>

> Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person

with a

> tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I

have

> to say that I probably disagree with you on that.

>

> Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship,

yes,

> but they are not identical and one is not more clinically

appropriate

> than the other.

>

> These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long

run,

> other names will be devised that are even better at describing the

> whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.

>

> In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely interchangeable

and

> people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes

their

> situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to say,

have

> never heard of either one.

>

> And that is something we can work on, right?

>

> Dr.

>

[Guest guest]

The way I see it is I don't care what it is called. We all just need to agree that it needs to be researched and it is not a condition that seems to be treatable by "learning" to just get over it, or treatable by any drug therapy out there. We also need to acknowledge the evidence that it seems to be genetic and a condition you are born with, not a learned response to one's environment. Although obviously after suffering with it for a long period, psychological responses do start to entertwine with the original problem thereby making hard to determine the root.

Other than that, we can call it whatever anyone wants to. I just want to know what the cause of it is, and have it recognized as a condition. And then hopefully, someone will find a treatment for it that works, or even a cure!

Misophonia, 4s, I-can't-stand-chewing-lipsmacking-sniffling-penclicking-silverwareclanking-Disorder....whatever! I like to call it 4s because it pretty much sums up what my daughter has, and Dr. called it that, and she was the only professional at the time that was opened minded enough not to see all this suffering as a psychological problem that needs therapy. She was the only one who looked deeper into it and saw the huge need to help. It is because of her that almost 1000 people have found each other and are able to realize they aren't crazy moody horrible people. It isn't in their minds! She is close to a Saint in my book.

If the NIH wants to call it something else--I don't care! Just make an official diagnosis!!

Kathy Howe

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of dmalcoreSent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:23 AMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

MarshaAs I have told you before, I have great respect for you as a clinician and one who offers this forum for people with 4S (aka misophonia). I also consider you a dear friend and have referred many individuals to you and your forum. I have no intention of bantering back and forth about the term. However I am entitled to my opinion which happens to agree with Dr. Pawel Jastreboff and a host of other medical experts in the world of hearing sensitivity. Having said that, I certainly acknowledge that the participants of this forum have their opinions. I listen with great interest to all their journeys and am happy to feel welcome here. Just my views...Dan>> Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person with a > tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I have > to say that I probably disagree with you on that.> > Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship, yes, > but they are not identical and one is not more clinically appropriate > than the other.> > These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long run, > other names will be devised that are even better at describing the > whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.> > In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely interchangeable and > people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes their > situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to say, have > never heard of either one.> > And that is something we can work on, right?> > Dr. >

[Guest guest]

I think this whole argument is stupid. Why is it such a big deal? I saw potato, you say potato. Sent from my iPod

The way I see it is I don't care what it is called.  We all just need to agree that it needs to be researched and it is not a condition that seems to be treatable by "learning" to just get over it, or treatable by any drug therapy out there.  We also need to acknowledge the evidence that it seems to be genetic and a condition you are born with, not a learned response to one's environment.  Although obviously after suffering with it for a long period, psychological responses do start to entertwine with the original problem thereby making hard to determine the root. 

 

Other than that, we can call it whatever anyone wants to.  I just want to know what the cause of it is, and have it recognized as a condition.  And then hopefully, someone will find a treatment for it that works, or even a cure!

 

Misophonia, 4s, I-can't-stand-chewing-lipsmacking-sniffling-penclicking-silverwareclanking-Disorder....whatever!  I like to call it 4s because it pretty much sums up what my daughter has, and Dr. called it that, and she was the only professional at the time that was opened minded enough not to see all this suffering as a psychological problem that needs therapy.  She was the only one who looked deeper into it and saw the huge need to help.  It is because of her that almost 1000 people have found each other and are able to realize they aren't crazy moody horrible people.  It isn't in their minds!  She is close to a Saint in my book.

 

If the NIH wants to call it something else--I don't care!  Just make an official diagnosis!!

 

Kathy Howe

 

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of dmalcoreSent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:23 AMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

MarshaAs I have told you before, I have great respect for you as a clinician and one who offers this forum for people with 4S (aka misophonia). I also consider you a dear friend and have referred many individuals to you and your forum. I have no intention of bantering back and forth about the term. However I am entitled to my opinion which happens to agree with Dr. Pawel Jastreboff and a host of other medical experts in the world of hearing sensitivity. Having said that, I certainly acknowledge that the participants of this forum have their opinions. I listen with great interest to all their journeys and am happy to feel welcome here. Just my views...Dan>> Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person with a > tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I have > to say that I probably disagree with you on that.> > Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship, yes, > but they are not identical and one is not more clinically appropriate > than the other.> > These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long run, > other names will be devised that are even better at describing the > whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.> > In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely interchangeable and > people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes their > situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to say, have > never heard of either one.> > And that is something we can work on, right?> > Dr. >

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l>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your opinions! Much appreciated! My counselor had never heard of either 4S or Misophonia.

I fall into the class of hatred of these noises and even fear having to be around someone...I'm always looking ahead of me to see what people are doing...especially if they are chewing gum...so I can redirect myself to another area.

Has anyone brought the subjects of 4S or Misophonia to their local media outlets? I was wondering if this would be worth a shot to bring this more out into the open and find others dealing with the same things we do. Today I have had thoughts about contacting my local newspaper to see if they would run a story.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I agree with Kathy... I don't care what this is called I just want it

studied and answers to be found to our questions.

I totally respect Dan for his opinion on this being 'misophonia' and

know that he feels it's important for us to mention it to our doctors

because Dr. Pawel Jastreboff coined that term and perhaps doctors have

heard of it and will know better what to do. That's fine, and I did

mention it to my doctors. They still hadn't hear of it. I respect

Dan for his opinions on this matter and he said he respects us for our

opinions. That's great because that means we can discuss these type

of things here without it getting ugly. Personally, I like Dr. J's

term and I feel her description is far better to what we actually go

through than Dr. Pawel Jastreboff's.

The point is... despite what this is called, nobody including Dr.

Pawel Jastreboff has all the answers and until research is done it

remains a mystery.

Dan, thank you for respecting our opinions here.

Darlene

>

> The way I see it is I don't care what it is called. We all just need to

> agree that it needs to be researched and it is not a condition that

seems to

> be treatable by " learning " to just get over it, or treatable by any drug

> therapy out there. We also need to acknowledge the evidence that it

seems

> to be genetic and a condition you are born with, not a learned

response to

> one's environment. Although obviously after suffering with it for a

long

> period, psychological responses do start to entertwine with the original

> problem thereby making hard to determine the root.

>

> Other than that, we can call it whatever anyone wants to. I just

want to

> know what the cause of it is, and have it recognized as a condition.

And

> then hopefully, someone will find a treatment for it that works, or

even a

> cure!

>

> Misophonia, 4s,

>

I-can't-stand-chewing-lipsmacking-sniffling-penclicking-silverwareclanking-D

> isorder....whatever! I like to call it 4s because it pretty much

sums up

> what my daughter has, and Dr. called it that, and she was

the only

> professional at the time that was opened minded enough not to see

all this

> suffering as a psychological problem that needs therapy. She was

the only

> one who looked deeper into it and saw the huge need to help. It is

because

> of her that almost 1000 people have found each other and are able to

realize

> they aren't crazy moody horrible people. It isn't in their minds!

She is

> close to a Saint in my book.

>

> If the NIH wants to call it something else--I don't care! Just make an

> official diagnosis!!

>

> Kathy Howe

>

[Guest guest]

---One of the big shot audiologists at Shands at Univ of FL thinks 4S

is a subset of hyperacusis. Who knows??? Only we know what we go

through with the sounds and it is so difficult to try to get someone

else to understand what we are going through.

I made a few phone calls to some audiologists in the area. Two called

me back. One can sell me the sound generators, the other suggested I

try " baby blues " earplugs that are very inexpensive. The earplugs I

have now take away 7 dB. She has some Baby Blues that will take away

15 dB. She suggests I try the 15 dB and if that is not too much

hearing taken away, that I then try the custom made musician earplugs

that you can get in a range if 9 dB, all the way up to 25 dB. They

are around $150. She thinks it is a good idea for me before i spend

the money on the sound generators. I don't know if I can get the baby

blues in my teen tiny oblong shaped ear canals but I will try. She

never heard of 4S and was so interested as we were talking and

Googled it and found Dr. 's website, said she was going to

read up on it in order to help other people she might see in her

practice.

> Marsha

>

> As I have told you before, I have great respect for you as a

> clinician and one who offers this forum for people with 4S (aka

> misophonia). I also consider you a dear friend and have referred

> many individuals to you and your forum. I have no intention of

> bantering back and forth about the term. However I am entitled to

my

> opinion which happens to agree with Dr. Pawel Jastreboff and a host

> of other medical experts in the world of hearing sensitivity.

Having

> said that, I certainly acknowledge that the participants of this

> forum have their opinions. I listen with great interest to all

their

> journeys and am happy to feel welcome here.

>

> Just my views...

>

> Dan

>

>

> >

> > Dan, I appreciate your point of view as always, you are a person

> with a

> > tremendous amount of knowledge in the field of hyperacusis but I

> have

> > to say that I probably disagree with you on that.

> >

> > Misophonia and selective sound sensitivity have a relationship,

> yes,

> > but they are not identical and one is not more clinically

> appropriate

> > than the other.

> >

> > These terms have yet to be well defined and I am sure in the long

> run,

> > other names will be devised that are even better at describing

the

> > whole etiology and I am looking forward to that myself.

> >

> > In the meantime, these two terms are not precisely

interchangeable

> and

> > people can certainly choose which one they feel best describes

> their

> > situations. The vast majority of medical providers, sadly to

say,

> have

> > never heard of either one.

> >

> > And that is something we can work on, right?

> >

> > Dr.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---

What is the diagnosis given to that particular code??

Thanks

In Soundsensitivity , " anthro_pop " wrote:

>

> THE CPT CODE 388.42 should be used for this condition when billing

> insurance or physician visits.

>

> Please write this down and keep it somewhere.

>

> CPT 388.42 is the proper billing code.

>

> Your medical provider can use this code to cover your charges for

> visits or therapy, etc. etc.

>

> Dr. J

>

[Guest guest]

That code is good for auditory disorders like hyperacusis. It is the

code for the medical condition that is closest to what is suffered by

people here.

Dr. J

> >

> > THE CPT CODE 388.42 should be used for this condition when

billing

> > insurance or physician visits.

> >

> > Please write this down and keep it somewhere.

> >

> > CPT 388.42 is the proper billing code.

> >

> > Your medical provider can use this code to cover your charges for

> > visits or therapy, etc. etc.

> >

> > Dr. J

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi other Ingrid:)and Mai?

I'm getting to the point where I don't feel like I can bear my present job with

4s. too much...straws and keyboards and chips and a myriad of crunchy snacks. I

have yet to find a therapist or get any medical confirmation of what I now know

to be a condition I share with others. Do you all know any specifics about any

insurance help or have any reccomendations for folks out in Atlanta that may

help with these issues?

Ingrid

> >

> > The way I see it is I don't care what it is called. We all just need to

> > agree that it needs to be researched and it is not a condition that

> seems to

> > be treatable by " learning " to just get over it, or treatable by any drug

> > therapy out there. We also need to acknowledge the evidence that it

> seems

> > to be genetic and a condition you are born with, not a learned

> response to

> > one's environment. Although obviously after suffering with it for a

> long

> > period, psychological responses do start to entertwine with the original

> > problem thereby making hard to determine the root.

> >

> > Other than that, we can call it whatever anyone wants to. I just

> want to

> > know what the cause of it is, and have it recognized as a condition.

> And

> > then hopefully, someone will find a treatment for it that works, or

> even a

> > cure!

> >

> > Misophonia, 4s,

> >

> I-can't-stand- chewing-lipsmack ing-sniffling- penclicking- silverwareclanki

ng-D

> > isorder....whatever ! I like to call it 4s because it pretty much

> sums up

> > what my daughter has, and Dr. called it that, and she was

> the only

> > professional at the time that was opened minded enough not to see

> all this

> > suffering as a psychological problem that needs therapy. She was

> the only

> > one who looked deeper into it and saw the huge need to help. It is

> because

> > of her that almost 1000 people have found each other and are able to

> realize

> > they aren't crazy moody horrible people. It isn't in their minds!

> She is

> > close to a Saint in my book.

> >

> > If the NIH wants to call it something else--I don't care! Just make an

> > official diagnosis!!

> >

> > Kathy Howe

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ingrid,Sorry to hear you can no longer bear your present job. I have found 4s doesn't get any easier with age. I can no longer afford to go to any doctor now except once a year to get my script renewed for the antidepressant I take, which doesn't help the 4s but does help with stress. I haven't seen my psychiatrist since I handed over the 4s info to him. Maybe we'll talk about it at my next appointment in a year, but I fear he will have probably forgotten all about it by then. Sorry I can't be more helpful. At this point it doesn't make sense to me to waste anymore $$$ at the doctor until I hear of other people having found something that significantly helps. But in this thread, Dr. J. did say that hyperacusis

is the closest medical condition that 4s resembles and can be used for billing purposes with insurance. I haven't tried that yet, I'm afraid I will just end up with another preexisting condition on my record. Avoidance and blocking noise with an ipod, has been the only thing that really helps me. The other Ingrid hasn't posted in a long time, but I'm sure she would have if she were finding any good solutions.Good luck to you, maikaeferTo: Soundsensitivity Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 10:57:43 AMSubject: Re: Difference between 4S & Misophonia

Hi other Ingrid:)and Mai?

I'm getting to the point where I don't feel like I can bear my present job with 4s. too much...straws and keyboards and chips and a myriad of crunchy snacks. I have yet to find a therapist or get any medical confirmation of what I now know to be a condition I share with others. Do you all know any specifics about any insurance help or have any reccomendations for folks out in Atlanta that may help with these issues?

Ingrid

> >

> > The way I see it is I don't care what it is called. We all just need to

> > agree that it needs to be researched and it is not a condition that

> seems to

> > be treatable by "learning" to just get over it, or treatable by any drug

> > therapy out there. We also need to acknowledge the evidence that it

> seems

> > to be genetic and a condition you are born with, not a learned

> response to

> > one's environment. Although obviously after suffering with it for a

> long

> > period, psychological responses do start to entertwine with the original

> > problem thereby making hard to determine the root.

> >

> > Other than that, we can call it whatever anyone wants to. I just

> want to

> > know what the cause of it is, and have it recognized as a condition.

> And

> > then hopefully, someone will find a treatment for it that works, or

> even a

> > cure!

> >

> > Misophonia, 4s,

> >

> I-can't-stand- chewing-lipsmack ing-sniffling- penclicking- silverwareclanki ng-D

> > isorder....whatever ! I like to call it 4s because it pretty much

> sums up

> > what my daughter has, and Dr. called it that, and she was

> the only

> > professional at the time that was opened minded enough not to see

> all this

> > suffering as a psychological problem that needs therapy. She was

> the only

> > one who looked deeper into it and saw the huge need to help. It is

> because

> > of her that almost 1000 people have found each other and are able to

> realize

> > they aren't crazy moody horrible people. It isn't in their minds!

> She is

> > close to a Saint in my book.

> >

> > If the NIH wants to call it something else--I don't care! Just make an

> > official diagnosis!!

> >

> > Kathy Howe

> >

>