Re: Smoking mothers link to autism

[Guest guest]

At 11:47 AM 12/7/02 -0000, Neil Gardner wrote:

>Did your mother smoke

>during pregnancy?

I know that my mother smoked all through my childhood until I was something

like 12-13 years old. My mother believes that her smoking was the cause of

my near-continuous ear and upper-respiratory-tract infections during

childhood. I don't know for sure if she smoked while she was pregnant with

me but since she smoked before I was born, it's quite likely that she

smoked while pregnant with me.

>Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

>environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

>substance abuse that may truggered autism?

I seem to vaguely remember her once saying that she had German Measles in

her seventh month of pregnancy with me. (My research shows that birth

defects are unlikely if German Measles are contracted after the 16th week

of pregnancy, but who *really* knows? And, hey, if the vaccine for Rubella

is rumored to cause autism why couldn't Rubella itself cause it? some links

I've encountered (such as http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/autism.cfm) say

that Rubella contracted in the first few months of pregnancy can cause

autism.)

Then again, I'm fairly convinced as to where my own autism came from. My

father is immensely aspie and so was his father. My mother's late sister

had autism and mental retardation and my mother's brother's daughter gave

birth to an autistic child. It's quite clear to me that the autistic

aspects of my brain were gifted to me by my genetics. (Though I don't rule

out other mitigating/exacerbating factors such as rubella, smoking, etc.)

[Guest guest]

Neil Gardner wrote:

.. Simple question. Did your mother smoke

during pregnancy? Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

substance abuse that may truggered autism?

-----------------My mother apparently was on some kind of tranquilizer from her

pregnancy with me to the time she died. (told to me by my father). She also

smoked and drank 'socially' during her pregnancy

Nanne

Anyway FWIW read this article (original URL

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2151289.stm )

Smoking mothers link to autism

Smokers were 40% more likely to have an autistic child

Smoking during early pregnancy could increase a child's risk of developing

autism.

Swedish researchers studied over 2,000 children and found that those mothers

who smoked regularly were 40% more likely to have autistic children.

Researcher Dr Hultman from the Department of Medical Epidemiology

at the Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, said there was already thought to

be a link between the growth of the foetus in the womb and autism.

She said that because smoking also restricts growth it could have a similar

effect.

We were surprised that smoking during early pregnancy was an independent

risk factor for autism

Dr Hultman

" We have tested the hypothesis of reduced growth in utero related to other

psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and anorexia nervosa and there

might be similar early risk factors.

Smoking

" As smoking during pregnancy, maternal age and mother's country of birth is

all known to influence children's birth weight and foetal growth we included

these variables.

" However we were surprised that smoking during early pregnancy was an

independent risk factor for autism, which has not been shown earlier. "

She said that similar studies on animals had shown that exposure to nicotine

while in the womb had physical and behavioural effects and could lead to

problems with the function of the brain.

Autism is a developmental disability that affects the way a person

communicates and interacts with other people.

People with autism cannot relate to others in a meaningful way and they also

have trouble making sense of the world at large.

As a result, their ability to develop friendships is impaired and they also

have a limited capacity to understand other people's feelings.

Autism is often also associated with learning disabilities.

More research

Dr Hultman said there was now a need for further extensive studies to

separate the effects of smoking from other environmental and genetic

factors.

Potter, of the National Autistic Society, agreed that the study in the

Journal Epidemiology showed there was an urgent need for further research.

" Those who smoked daily in pregnancy were 1.4 times more likely to have a

child with autism than those who didn't smoke, according to this study, " he

said.

" This is quite a small confidence interval and would need further studies

either to confirm or disprove it. It seems unlikely to explain much about

the overall influence of autism.

" While we know that autism is a strongly genetic condition there is an

urgent need to conduct further studies to determine which environmental risk

factors are involved in triggering it. "

Mr Potter added: " At prenatal stages several factors including carbon

monoxide, drugs and endocrine factors have been suggested.

" The recent Medical Research Review of Autism considered these to be only

speculative at present but further studies are needed. "

[Guest guest]

Neil Gardner dreamed lazily into the stars:

>Simple question. Did your mother smoke

>during pregnancy?

Nope. From what I've heard, she became a zealot about making sure

everything she did was healthy. She ate wonderfully, took vitamins, didn't

drink, didn't smoke, etc. The doctors say that the only reason I survived

to term and was as strong as I was at birth (considering my internal

defects) was because she took such unusually good care of herself.

>Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

>environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

>substance abuse that may truggered autism?

Not really. She had a flu very early in pregnancy that might have

triggered all of my mutations -- the neurological oddities & birth defects

are quite possibly rooted in the same early stage of prenatal development

-- but that's a really sketchy guess on my part. Otherwise, nada.

DeGraf ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

" Too much of a good thing can make you crazy. "

-- Jethro Tull

[Guest guest]

Neil wrote:

>...Simple question. Did your mother smoke

>during pregnancy? Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

>environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

>substance abuse that may truggered autism?

My mother smoked during all four of her pregnancies.

Jane

>Anyway FWIW read this article (original URL

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2151289.stm )

>

>Smoking mothers link to autism

>

>Smokers were 40% more likely to have an autistic child

[snip]

> " Those who smoked daily in pregnancy were 1.4 times more likely to have a

>child with autism than those who didn't smoke, according to this study, " he

>said.

>

> " This is quite a small confidence interval and would need further studies

>either to confirm or disprove it. It seems unlikely to explain much about

>the overall influence of autism.

>

> " While we know that autism is a strongly genetic condition there is an

>urgent need to conduct further studies to determine which environmental risk

>factors are involved in triggering it. "

[Guest guest]

Mine smokes, but she says that she quit smoking when she was pregnant with me.

Of course, there were other environmental factors that could have been

contributors, also. She and my father lived in a place just off the miltary post

in the Panama Canal Zone that could only be described as a hovel. The water had

to be boiled before they could use it, the house was infested with insects, and

the power was cut off from six in the evening to six in the morning. I know the

unsanitary conditions must have contributed to the kidney infection my mother

had in the fifth month of pregnancy, which may have contributed to my premature

birth (and ultimately my cerebral palsy as well).

Re: Smoking mothers link to autism

Neil wrote:

>...Simple question. Did your mother smoke

>during pregnancy? Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

>environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

>substance abuse that may truggered autism?

My mother smoked during all four of her pregnancies.

Jane

>Anyway FWIW read this article (original URL

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2151289.stm )

>

>Smoking mothers link to autism

>

>Smokers were 40% more likely to have an autistic child

[snip]

> " Those who smoked daily in pregnancy were 1.4 times more likely to have a

>child with autism than those who didn't smoke, according to this study, " he

>said.

>

> " This is quite a small confidence interval and would need further studies

>either to confirm or disprove it. It seems unlikely to explain much about

>the overall influence of autism.

>

> " While we know that autism is a strongly genetic condition there is an

>urgent need to conduct further studies to determine which environmental risk

>factors are involved in triggering it. "

[Guest guest]

Neil Gardner wrote:

> I initially dismissed links between the infamous MMR vaccine and autism.

> Indeed I believed vaccination to be generally beneficial as they are

> supposed to strengthen our immune system and have saved millions of lives.

> However, my views may be changing.

I hope not. It is no coincidence that smallpox is functionally an extinct

disease, and

that polio quit being a menace right about the time of the Salk vaccine.

> What's certain is the massive increase in autistic spectrum diagnoses and

> autistic-like behaviour.

The increase in diagnoses is fact, but I do not know that it relates to an

increase in

incidence. The most commonly quoted study that shows that the autism rates are

on the

rise, around here, is the California state study... and that study included AS

and autism.

Certainly, AS is more recognized now, and a child with that is far more likely

to get a

proper dx now than twenty or thirty years ago. How many of us here on this list

were only

officially diagnosed as adults, or never? Only a few of the members of this

list, I bet,

were diagnosed as autistic when we were young. As such, the numbers from those

years do

not include us. We were there, we were autistic then as now, but the lack of

knowledge

prevented proper diagnosis. Even now, a lot of clinicians are not skilled at

making a

proper ASD diagnosis. The awareness of AS and HFA is still increasing, and as

more

doctors get the word, the diagnosis rate will increase, even if the base ASD

population is

constant.

In the past, people like us were diagnosed as hyperactive/ADD/ADHD,

schizophrenic,

schizo-affective, avoidant personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder,

and any

number of other things. That still happens today, but the chance of getting a

proper dx

these days is an order of magnitude higher than twenty or thirty years ago.

On the other end of the spectrum, increasing autism awareness means that

low-functioning

autistics that may have been diagnosed as simply retarded, or retarded with any

of the

conditions enumerated above, will be diagnosed as autistic.

> I believe environmental factors (such as an

> increasingly atomised society with everyone cocooned in their home glued to

> electronic gadgets) play a major role in bringing out more autistic

> behaviour.

Autism is related to having an autistic brain, and that happens before birth.

The brain

abnormalities that make autism could only have happened when the neural tissue

in the

brian differentiates, which is in the first trimester of pregnancy.

> Proponents of the MMR-Autism link claim it's the mercury in MMR

> that induces autism in susceptible individuals.

That is incorrect. The MMR never contained any mercury. The first 'M' in MMR

stands for

measles, and the measles vaccine is an active culture. Thimerosal is used

because it

kills microbial pathogens-- that would include the measles culture.

The MMR link has now been strongly refuted, as the recent Danish (IIRC) study

showed. The

fact that both the MMR, which never had any mercury in it, and the mercury of

other

vaccines, are blamed for autism shows me that the people that wish to link these

vaccines

are grasping at straws. So many parents remember the autism starting at about

the same

time as the vaccines (which is a mere coincidence in timing; so many vaccines

are given in

the first few years, it is no wonder that one of them would happen at about the

time when

autism is noticed for the first time). The human memory then fills in the

blanks, and it

is remembered as causality... " he lost his speech right after the MMR, " the

mother says,

when in reality there may have been a gap of a month or more, or the speech

could have

actually gone away first... but only struck mom as unusual after the MMR was

given.

The lack of reliability of human memories in eyewitness testimony is well-known,

and it is

also known that five people that saw the same thing will give five different

stories,

often differing strongly. That is why real scientific data must be ascertained

through

carefully constructed double-blind studies, not parental testimony. Yet much of

what is

called " evidence " in autism is nothing more than parental anecdotes. That is

enough to

point to a possible link, which would be the impetus for further study, but

certainly, not

enough to recommend treatment plans, lawsuits, and other things that should be

based upon

fact. Regardless, this is what we see today. Many people are suing the makers

of the MMR

for making their kids autistic... I saw two of the lawyers that are spearheading

this

moneygrubbing at an autism conference last year. Parents all around the world

are

chelating their kids to get the mercury out, et cetera. All sorts of treatments

that are

scientifically untested and of questionable safety are being promoted as if they

are

proven cures.

> Now I grew up in the pre-MMR

> era, so it obviously didn't affect me, but I do know my mother smoked 20-30

> high-tar cigarettes during pregnancy. Simple question. Did your mother smoke

> during pregnancy?

Yes, she did. But so did just about everyone else then; it would be hard to

find a link

here. In fact, smoking has been on the decline for some time, whereas the rates

of autism

are said to be increasing. There seems to be inverse proportionality between

autism and

rates of smoking.

> Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

> environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

> substance abuse that may truggered autism?

Not that I know of.

> People with autism cannot relate to others in a meaningful way and they also

> have trouble making sense of the world at large.

Really? This certainly is news to me.

> " Those who smoked daily in pregnancy were 1.4 times more likely to have a

> child with autism than those who didn't smoke, according to this study, " he

> said.

>

> " This is quite a small confidence interval and would need further studies

> either to confirm or disprove it. It seems unlikely to explain much about

> the overall influence of autism.

Truly.

[Guest guest]

> Mine smokes, but she says that she quit smoking when she was pregnant

> with me.

My mother never smoked. She never drank alcohol. She never took so much as

an aspirin when she was pregnant with me. I did grow up in a very badly

polluted town, however, with smoke from the local pulp and paper mill

blanketing the town.

I attribute my AS to the circumstances of my birth, however. My mother had

pre-eclampsia, and almost died. My sister had her daughter under similar

circumstances, and my niece has non-verbal learning disability.

Iris

Iris Gray, Puff, Calli and Munchkin

Proud to be Canuckistanian

Personal website: http://victoria.tc.ca/~rainbow/

Toastmasters website: http://victoria.tc.ca/Community/Bb/

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for such a detailed reply. My post aimed to stimulate debate. I do

not ideologically support the MMR-Autism hypothesis. However, I disagree

with your assessment that only autism diagnosis rate has increased. IMHO

there are considerably more children exhibiting autistic-like behaviour. I

know this from my involvement with PHAD Fife (people with high-functioning

autistic disorders). In our region, Fife, the incidence has now surpassed

1/100. UK-wide it's 91/1000. All parents talk of major behavioural problems.

We're talking about kids with problems far greater than those I experienced.

My problems related chiefly to a slight delay in speech acquisition and

later difficulties with socialisation. I might have wondered around the

playground mapping out an imaginary world. I might have lectured others

about my special interests, which thankfully changed every six months or so.

I might have had my tantrums, but by and large I was a placid boy who'd

spend hours on end building towns with lego, gluing together plastic rockets

and spaceships, experimenting with codes or watching documentaries on TV. I

even went through phases as a latter-day hippie (at the age of 11/12) when I

grew my hair down to my shoulders and later switched to being a punk (well

for a few months anyway). The new generation of kids diagnosed with AS have

constant tantrums and severe learning difficulties at school. I have long

suffered from recurrent headaches. My head often feels heavy. I feel an

invisible separates me from everyone else, but I try my best to act

responsibly. I won't say normal, because I don't like the whole concept. I'm

beginning to doubt whether I would have benefited from a diagnosis as a

child.

My nagging suspicion is that some individuals are more susceptible to a

chemical trigger that changes the way ourt neuroreceptors interact.

I certainly do not believe the MMR vaccine is either sole or main cause of

autism (and neither to proponents of the MMR-autism link). However, it may

be one of many contributing environmental factors. All technological

innovations have their downsides and that goes for medicine too. In my time

kids were routinely sent round a neighbour's house to catch measles when

they were young. I had measles, rubella (aka German measles) but not mumps.

Now everyone knows mercury is a highly toxic substance, so it's highly

unlikely a multibillion dollar pharmaceutical multinational (who pour

millions into the coffers of the UK and US political parties and media)

would freely admit it contains mercury or would word such a statement in a

misleading and obfuscating way. Thimerosal contains four main ingredients::

ethyl mercuric chloride, thiosalicylic acid, sodium hydroxide and ethanol.

The hypothesis is that it may trigger autistic spectrum disorders in

individuals who fail to process heavy metals, also present in cigarettes in

trace amounts, in the usual way. For more info thimerosal read

http://www.thimerosal-news.com/html/info.html .

Smoking restricts blood supply to the growing foetus, but is obviously not

the sole cause. Other personal information that may be of interest. My

younger brother was a blue baby (lack of oxygen in the blood supply) and

died within 3 hours and my mother worked for several years as an army

radiologist.

Even if I were convinced MMR is not any way related to autism, I would still

support an open debate, full public inquiry on the subject and full public

access to research. Call me a conspiracy theorist, if you like, but Prez

Bush junior has just asked the US Court of Federal Claims to seal MMR

Vaccine Records. So much for open government!

BTW don't expect a BBC journalist to know what it is like to be an autie...

Neil

Re: Smoking mothers link to autism

..

>

> I hope not. It is no coincidence that smallpox is functionally an extinct

disease, and

> that polio quit being a menace right about the time of the Salk vaccine.

>

>

> > What's certain is the massive increase in autistic spectrum diagnoses

and

> > autistic-like behaviour.

>

> The increase in diagnoses is fact, but I do not know that it relates to an

increase in

> incidence. The most commonly quoted study that shows that the autism

rates are on the

> rise, around here, is the California state study... and that study

included AS and autism.

> Certainly, AS is more recognized now, and a child with that is far more

likely to get a

> proper dx now than twenty or thirty years ago. How many of us here on

this list were only

> officially diagnosed as adults, or never? Only a few of the members of

this list, I bet,

> were diagnosed as autistic when we were young. As such, the numbers from

those years do

> not include us. We were there, we were autistic then as now, but the lack

of knowledge

> prevented proper diagnosis. Even now, a lot of clinicians are not skilled

at making a

> proper ASD diagnosis. The awareness of AS and HFA is still increasing,

and as more

> doctors get the word, the diagnosis rate will increase, even if the base

ASD population is

> constant.

>

> In the past, people like us were diagnosed as hyperactive/ADD/ADHD,

schizophrenic,

> schizo-affective, avoidant personality disorder, schizoid personality

disorder, and any

> number of other things. That still happens today, but the chance of

getting a proper dx

> these days is an order of magnitude higher than twenty or thirty years

ago.

>

> On the other end of the spectrum, increasing autism awareness means that

low-functioning

> autistics that may have been diagnosed as simply retarded, or retarded

with any of the

> conditions enumerated above, will be diagnosed as autistic.

>

> > I believe environmental factors (such as an

> > increasingly atomised society with everyone cocooned in their home glued

to

> > electronic gadgets) play a major role in bringing out more autistic

> > behaviour.

>

> Autism is related to having an autistic brain, and that happens before

birth. The brain

> abnormalities that make autism could only have happened when the neural

tissue in the

> brian differentiates, which is in the first trimester of pregnancy.

>

>

> > Proponents of the MMR-Autism link claim it's the mercury in MMR

> > that induces autism in susceptible individuals.

>

> That is incorrect. The MMR never contained any mercury. The first 'M' in

MMR stands for

> measles, and the measles vaccine is an active culture. Thimerosal is used

because it

> kills microbial pathogens-- that would include the measles culture.

>

> The MMR link has now been strongly refuted, as the recent Danish (IIRC)

study showed. The

> fact that both the MMR, which never had any mercury in it, and the mercury

of other

> vaccines, are blamed for autism shows me that the people that wish to link

these vaccines

> are grasping at straws. So many parents remember the autism starting at

about the same

> time as the vaccines (which is a mere coincidence in timing; so many

vaccines are given in

> the first few years, it is no wonder that one of them would happen at

about the time when

> autism is noticed for the first time). The human memory then fills in the

blanks, and it

> is remembered as causality... " he lost his speech right after the MMR, "

the mother says,

> when in reality there may have been a gap of a month or more, or the

speech could have

> actually gone away first... but only struck mom as unusual after the MMR

was given.

>

> The lack of reliability of human memories in eyewitness testimony is

well-known, and it is

> also known that five people that saw the same thing will give five

different stories,

> often differing strongly. That is why real scientific data must be

ascertained through

> carefully constructed double-blind studies, not parental testimony. Yet

much of what is

> called " evidence " in autism is nothing more than parental anecdotes. That

is enough to

> point to a possible link, which would be the impetus for further study,

but certainly, not

> enough to recommend treatment plans, lawsuits, and other things that

should be based upon

> fact. Regardless, this is what we see today. Many people are suing the

makers of the MMR

> for making their kids autistic... I saw two of the lawyers that are

spearheading this

> moneygrubbing at an autism conference last year. Parents all around the

world are

> chelating their kids to get the mercury out, et cetera. All sorts of

treatments that are

> scientifically untested and of questionable safety are being promoted as

if they are

> proven cures.

>

>

> > Now I grew up in the pre-MMR

> > era, so it obviously didn't affect me, but I do know my mother smoked

20-30

> > high-tar cigarettes during pregnancy. Simple question. Did your mother

smoke

> > during pregnancy?

>

> Yes, she did. But so did just about everyone else then; it would be hard

to find a link

> here. In fact, smoking has been on the decline for some time, whereas the

rates of autism

> are said to be increasing. There seems to be inverse proportionality

between autism and

> rates of smoking.

>

>

> > Was your mother subjected to any other adverse

> > environmental factors such as contaminants, radiation, medicines or

> > substance abuse that may truggered autism?

>

> Not that I know of.

>

>

> > People with autism cannot relate to others in a meaningful way and they

also

> > have trouble making sense of the world at large.

>

> Really? This certainly is news to me.

>

>

> > " Those who smoked daily in pregnancy were 1.4 times more likely to have

a

> > child with autism than those who didn't smoke, according to this study, "

he

> > said.

> >

> > " This is quite a small confidence interval and would need further

studies

> > either to confirm or disprove it. It seems unlikely to explain much

about

> > the overall influence of autism.