Re: irishdrought - your thoughts on stimulants

[Guest guest]

, have you tried Provigil???????

WONDERFUL drug that has changed the quality of my life & is not a “stimulant”

per se. Patrice

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006

12:38 PM

infections

Subject:

[infections] irishdrought - your thoughts on stimulants

> I have to take a stimulant to stay awake. I don't have narcoplsey

> but do feel brain dead and so sleepy without it.

I have been having the same problem, especially this summer. Humid heat

seems to magnify the problem (even if I am in an air-conditioned room).

However, retrospectively it seems that more subtle sleepiness may have

been a problem for me thruout the last year (which is the amount of

time that I've been running 3-6 miles again, recovered from

depression/malaise/brainfog, and generally highly recovered from severe

CFS, all apparantly thanks to antibiotics).

What have you tried and what worked/failed? I've been taking caffeine

liberally all year but that was not fully effective. I started

amineptine at 150-200 mg on tuesday. It had superb effects which seem

to have mostly worn off even tho I am still taking it. So today I added

adrafinil at 300 mg. (I have no opinion on whether this combo is safe;

I just went for it pretty blindly.) Again, tremendous effects - I am in

doubt whether they will persist very long even if I work up to the max

dose, but hope abideth. I've also experimented with thyroid, so far

without lasting success, but I will try again when I obtain more.

My vague sense is that amphetamine and methylphenidate are probably

stronger than amineptine and adrafinil, but to obtain those I'll have

to do a song & dance for a doctor. Anyway, I cant go around being very

sleepy quite often, falling asleep in the afternoon, and averaging 9.5

to 10 hours of sleep per day. This problem has been easy for me to

underrecognize, as I was desperately insomniac during my time of severe

illness.

I also fear the possibility of long-term diminishment of effectiveness.

Have you experienced that with stimulants? For me, tho I do build

caffeine tolerance, the tolerance seems to max out at a reasonable

level. That gives me hope that I could find a constant dose of some

stronger stimulant that could be both fully and permanently effective.

I didnt get good grades last year, tho I learned alot anyway. I think

low activity drive is the primary reason, and it seems the

norepinepherine and dopamine systems may often be blameable for this.

Its usually pretty easy for me to work furiously on stuff related to my

own ideas, but hard to do homework. I also notice a decided preference

for walking places over riding my bike, contrary to my pre-illness

habits. Now I've graduated and am taking two graduate courses (Biochem

and Microbial Pathogenesis). Kind of my last shot to lay down a good

record and get into a good PhD program.

[Guest guest]

,

I wish you the best and hope you get into a PhD program.

Have you considered having testosterone levels tested? Low levels

would cause the afternoon tiredness. As you know this is a common

problem in both males and females with cfs.

a Carnes

>

>

> > I have to take a stimulant to stay awake. I don't have narcoplsey

> > but do feel brain dead and so sleepy without it.

>

> I have been having the same problem, especially this summer. Humid

heat

> seems to magnify the problem (even if I am in an air-conditioned

room).

> However, retrospectively it seems that more subtle sleepiness may

have

> been a problem for me thruout the last year (which is the amount of

> time that I've been running 3-6 miles again, recovered from

> depression/malaise/brainfog, and generally highly recovered from

severe

> CFS, all apparantly thanks to antibiotics).

>

> What have you tried and what worked/failed? I've been taking

caffeine

> liberally all year but that was not fully effective. I started

> amineptine at 150-200 mg on tuesday. It had superb effects which

seem

> to have mostly worn off even tho I am still taking it. So today I

added

> adrafinil at 300 mg. (I have no opinion on whether this combo is

safe;

> I just went for it pretty blindly.) Again, tremendous effects - I

am in

> doubt whether they will persist very long even if I work up to the

max

> dose, but hope abideth. I've also experimented with thyroid, so far

> without lasting success, but I will try again when I obtain more.

>

> My vague sense is that amphetamine and methylphenidate are probably

> stronger than amineptine and adrafinil, but to obtain those I'll

have

> to do a song & dance for a doctor. Anyway, I cant go around being

very

> sleepy quite often, falling asleep in the afternoon, and averaging

9.5

> to 10 hours of sleep per day. This problem has been easy for me to

> underrecognize, as I was desperately insomniac during my time of

severe

> illness.

>

> I also fear the possibility of long-term diminishment of

effectiveness.

> Have you experienced that with stimulants? For me, tho I do build

> caffeine tolerance, the tolerance seems to max out at a reasonable

> level. That gives me hope that I could find a constant dose of some

> stronger stimulant that could be both fully and permanently

effective.

>

> I didnt get good grades last year, tho I learned alot anyway. I

think

> low activity drive is the primary reason, and it seems the

> norepinepherine and dopamine systems may often be blameable for

this.

> Its usually pretty easy for me to work furiously on stuff related

to my

> own ideas, but hard to do homework. I also notice a decided

preference

> for walking places over riding my bike, contrary to my pre-illness

> habits. Now I've graduated and am taking two graduate courses

(Biochem

> and Microbial Pathogenesis). Kind of my last shot to lay down a

good

> record and get into a good PhD program.

>

[Guest guest]

Oops, I just saw that you made some comments about this upthread.

But I'd be interested in anything additional you might elaborate.

To answer your question - I guess I do have somewhat the same problem

as you, tho mine isnt very severe, and is often absent. (It did become

very severe last summer when I used serotonin-active antidepressants.)

I have not seen this problem to be common in my circles, which include

primarily CFS (including lyme diagnosees) and MS patients. I cant think

of a single case really. Brain fog is very very common, but seems like

a distinct phenomenon. What I have at times is not proper fatigue or

fog (or not more than a touch), its low activity drive - I often cant

quite keep my apartment clean, bills paid, ducks in a row, etc. But I

do heavy biochem (no fog) and long runs (no proper fatigue).

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I'm pretty pretty hairy but definitely

no big testosterone man. I was a competitive (lightweight) rower in

highschool and lifted weights most of the time during those 4 years. I

gained maybe 5 pounds the entire time. (I kept doing it because it

still increases athletic performance, even if you dont gain any muscle

mass.) I am 5'11 " and about 135 lbs.

Unfortunately this is another highly controlled substance, like

amphetamine. But if I see a doctor I will definitely request a serum

level. Do you know whether the serum concentration varies circadianly?

> ,

> I wish you the best and hope you get into a PhD program.

>

> Have you considered having testosterone levels tested? Low levels

> would cause the afternoon tiredness. As you know this is a common

> problem in both males and females with cfs.

>

> a Carnes

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I'm on day one of adrafinil right now. I just took a second

300 mg. (The suggested dose is 600 - 1200 mg daily, assuming normal

kidney/liver and no CYP450 interactions with other meds.)

Adrafinil is pretty close to modrafinil (Provigil), tho there may be

some important differences in things like safety, need for liver

monitoring, and onset time of various effects. (I'm not terribly well

informed so far. I will become so if the drug proves worth staying

on.) Modrafinil is also a controlled substance in the USA.

Adraf is cheap. There seem to be partisans of both molecules on the

web, as well as a number of people who find them to be equivalent in

psychoactivity.

If it actually does keep working like it is now, I will probably come

out totally cool.

>

> , have you tried Provigil??????? WONDERFUL drug that has

changed the

> quality of my life & is not a " stimulant " per se. Patrice

>

[Guest guest]

It is a Class IV controlled substance here

& it’s one drawback is that it isn’t cheap.  Soon to be

released is Nuvigil which is basically an extended release form; not sure what

that would do to my insomnia, b/c  if I don’t take the Provigil early in

the am, I will suffer insomnia later in the night.  Safety profile is pretty

good w/biggest complaint being a headache, usually reducing after a week of

continued use.  They are now finding it helpful for ADD & to help

amphetamine addicts kick the habit.  It’s now on the dope list for

athletes as it was obviously enhancing their performance. 

My Dr. did write a letter of persuasion to

my insurance company & they now pay for my Provigil.  Until I achieve a

total remission, I’m going to treat the symptoms & fatigue is just a

killer for me, but greatly alleviated by Provigil.  Patrice

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:42

PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Re: irishdrought - your thoughts on stimulants

Thanks. I'm on day one of adrafinil right now. I just

took a second

300 mg. (The suggested dose is 600 - 1200 mg daily, assuming normal

kidney/liver and no CYP450 interactions with other meds.)

Adrafinil is pretty close to modrafinil (Provigil), tho there may be

some important differences in things like safety, need for liver

monitoring, and onset time of various effects. (I'm not terribly well

informed so far. I will become so if the drug proves worth staying

on.) Modrafinil is also a controlled substance in the USA.

Adraf is cheap. There seem to be partisans of both molecules on the

web, as well as a number of people who find them to be equivalent in

psychoactivity.

If it actually does keep working like it is now, I will probably come

out totally cool.

>

> , have you tried Provigil??????? WONDERFUL drug that has

changed the

> quality of my life & is not a " stimulant " per se. Patrice

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 05:37:50PM -0000, wrote:

>I didnt get good grades last year, tho I learned alot anyway. I think

>low activity drive is the primary reason, and it seems the

>norepinepherine and dopamine systems may often be blameable for this.

>Its usually pretty easy for me to work furiously on stuff related to my

>own ideas, but hard to do homework.

You might have a case of Bullshit Intolerance Syndrome. It is caused by

a larger-than-normal exposure to reality, especially the grimmer parts

thereof. It can be fatal to an academic career, unless carefully managed

(which is best done by finding an advisor who also suffers from the same

syndrome).

[Guest guest]

On Aug 25, 2006, at 10:19 PM, Norman Yarvin wrote:

> You might have a case of Bullshit Intolerance Syndrome. It is

> caused by

> a larger-than-normal exposure to reality, especially the grimmer parts

> thereof. It can be fatal to an academic career, unless carefully

> managed

My son definitely has this and it is part of the reason he is having

trouble making it through junior high! Seriously though, he can work

really hard on his own projects and look rather brilliant, whereas

his schoolwork is sometimes not so great.

- Kate

[Guest guest]

LOL! hilarious.Norman Yarvin <norman.yarvin@...> wrote: On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 05:37:50PM -0000, wrote:>I didnt get good grades last year, tho I learned alot anyway. I think >low activity drive is the primary reason, and it seems the >norepinepherine and dopamine systems may often be blameable for this. >Its usually pretty easy for me to work furiously on stuff related to my >own ideas, but hard to do homework.You might have a case of Bullshit Intolerance

Syndrome. It is caused bya larger-than-normal exposure to reality, especially the grimmer partsthereof. It can be fatal to an academic career, unless carefully managed(which is best done by finding an advisor who also suffers from the samesyndrome).