Re: Interesting experience

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tony.

In case you're referring to me, I just want to set the record

straight on what I said about the U. of Newcastle studies. All I

did was to cite the work of Chalmers et al., abstracts shown below.

I have not seen a response to these papers by the U. of Newcastle

researchers.

I might add that I do not derive any joy from seeing something like

this. I thought (and hoped) that the Newcastle people were onto

something.

I have seen abnormalities in urine amino and organic acids in many

PWCs, so I'm not sure that the work of Chalmers et al. totally

represents what's out there, either. But if there are

methodological errors, I think they need to be understood and

cleared up, whoever makes them.

Rich

Clin Chim Acta. 2005 Nov;361(1-2):150-8. Links

Urinary and plasma organic acids and amino acids in chronic fatigue

syndrome. MG, E, Amjad S, Goodwin CS, Barron JL,

Chalmers RA.

St 's Hospital Medical School, Cranmer Terrace, London, SW17

0RE, UK.

Previous work by others have suggested the occurrence of one or more

chemical or metabolic 'markers' for ME/CFS including specific amino

acids and organic acids and a number of unidentified compounds

(CFSUM1, CFSUM2). We have shown elsewhere that CFSUM1 is partially

derivatised pyroglutamic acid and CFSUM2 partially derivatised

serine and have suggested and demonstrated that the analytical

methods used were unsuitable to identify or to accurately quantify

urinary metabolites. We have now made a detailed analysis of plasma

and urinary amino acids and of urinary organic acids from patients

with ME/CFS and from three control groups. Fasting blood plasma and

timed urine samples were obtained from 31 patients with CFS, 31 age

and sex-matched healthy controls, 15 patients with depression and 22

patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Plasma and urinary amino acids

and urinary organic acids were determined using established and

validated methods and data compared by statistical analysis. None of

the previously reported abnormalities in urinary amino acids or of

organic acids could be confirmed. Results however provide some

evidence in patients with ME/CFS for underlying inflammatory disease

and for reduced intramuscular collagen with a lowered threshold for

muscle micro-injury. These factors in combination may provide a

basis for the fatigue and muscle pain that are the major symptoms in

these patients.

PMID: 15992788 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Clin Chim Acta. 2005 Nov;361(1-2):150-8. Links

Urinary and plasma organic acids and amino acids in chronic fatigue

syndrome. MG, E, Amjad S, Goodwin CS, Barron JL,

Chalmers RA.

St 's Hospital Medical School, Cranmer Terrace, London, SW17

0RE, UK.

Previous work by others have suggested the occurrence of one or more

chemical or metabolic 'markers' for ME/CFS including specific amino

acids and organic acids and a number of unidentified compounds

(CFSUM1, CFSUM2). We have shown elsewhere that CFSUM1 is partially

derivatised pyroglutamic acid and CFSUM2 partially derivatised

serine and have suggested and demonstrated that the analytical

methods used were unsuitable to identify or to accurately quantify

urinary metabolites. We have now made a detailed analysis of plasma

and urinary amino acids and of urinary organic acids from patients

with ME/CFS and from three control groups. Fasting blood plasma and

timed urine samples were obtained from 31 patients with CFS, 31 age

and sex-matched healthy controls, 15 patients with depression and 22

patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Plasma and urinary amino acids

and urinary organic acids were determined using established and

validated methods and data compared by statistical analysis. None of

the previously reported abnormalities in urinary amino acids or of

organic acids could be confirmed. Results however provide some

evidence in patients with ME/CFS for underlying inflammatory disease

and for reduced intramuscular collagen with a lowered threshold for

muscle micro-injury. These factors in combination may provide a

basis for the fatigue and muscle pain that are the major symptoms in

these patients.

PMID: 15992788 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Hi all

> Just a little experience.... possably in the realm of

understanding

> the toxic nature of these ilnesses. Anyways I'm out and about with

my

> buddies there's five of us and we start the drinking sessions

usually

> with a few beers but as the night progresses the vodka cruisers

are

> the order of the day. Anyways we all end up with the watermelon

> flavoured red cruisers. All my mates point to my lips and

surrounding

> tissue and exclaim how red they are, wheras looking at their's

this

> does not seem to be the case.

> Well why I mention this is that the newcastle university

> cfs/fibromyalgia team where big on toxic studies and they

implicated

> a staph toxin called a membrane damaging, pore forming TOXIN in

there

> understanding of toxic culprits for these conditions. Now I have

been

> informed recently by Mr. R. Kronkenberger that the university of

> newcastle studies are a hoax.So I was able to convince my buddies

> that pointed this out to me that they were suffering from

dellusional

> disorder and a couple of them are currently seeking treatment.

> Anyways I can't understamnd how you can discredit a bacterial

study

> in the same fashion as the helicobacter study, when this is

SCIENCE

> AT IT'S MOST VISABLE.

> Also all the forums are CONSTANTLY DETOXING, TRYING TO GET THE

TOXINS

> OUT, and a hundred other explanations of how to get rid of the

toxic

> assaults, that seem to dog everyone.

>

> tony

>

[Guest guest]

Rich.

Thanks for the enlightenement. I did the amino acid urine profile and

even took 2 months of amino acid profiled to my requirements ..Just

as all other supplements I've tried, it did NOTHING..

BUT! I also did something more intelligent..I saved a litre of urine

and got an employee to give me a litre for comparison, my litre

looked like I was shedding the inside of my bladder and his looked

great.. taking both samples to my doctor and explaining to him that

all the urine testing he orders is worthless when something so

visable comes back normal in lab workups. I got the message across to

him, tell your friends at the freakin lab that what is supposedly

normal don't look too normal......

My next step was to learn why the urine testing that often feels like

it stings ain't revealing infection-WELL, THE LAB SITS THE SAMPLE IN

FRONT OF A MACHINE THAT ONLY REGISTERS IF YOUR URINE GOES CLOUDY-

THEY BASICALLY DON'T LOOK OR CARE IF YOUR GROWING BACTERIA AS THEY

ARE ONLY CATERING FOR A PERCENTAGE OF THE COMMUNITY.. AS WE ALL ARE

AWARE WE ARE THE PERCENTAGE THAT AIN'T BEING CATERED FOR.. SO THE

TRUTHS ABOUT THESE ILNESSES ARE BEING TOUTED IN BRAIL BY PEOPLE LIKE

YOURSELF..

tony .

> >

> > Hi all

> > Just a little experience.... possably in the realm of

> understanding

> > the toxic nature of these ilnesses. Anyways I'm out and about

with

> my

> > buddies there's five of us and we start the drinking sessions

> usually

> > with a few beers but as the night progresses the vodka cruisers

> are

> > the order of the day. Anyways we all end up with the watermelon

> > flavoured red cruisers. All my mates point to my lips and

> surrounding

> > tissue and exclaim how red they are, wheras looking at their's

> this

> > does not seem to be the case.

> > Well why I mention this is that the newcastle university

> > cfs/fibromyalgia team where big on toxic studies and they

> implicated

> > a staph toxin called a membrane damaging, pore forming TOXIN in

> there

> > understanding of toxic culprits for these conditions. Now I have

> been

> > informed recently by Mr. R. Kronkenberger that the university of

> > newcastle studies are a hoax.So I was able to convince my buddies

> > that pointed this out to me that they were suffering from

> dellusional

> > disorder and a couple of them are currently seeking treatment.

> > Anyways I can't understamnd how you can discredit a bacterial

> study

> > in the same fashion as the helicobacter study, when this is

> SCIENCE

> > AT IT'S MOST VISABLE.

> > Also all the forums are CONSTANTLY DETOXING, TRYING TO GET THE

> TOXINS

> > OUT, and a hundred other explanations of how to get rid of the

> toxic

> > assaults, that seem to dog everyone.

> >

> > tony

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

I totally agree with you, most of us don't need fancy tests to prove that we are indeed very ill, just doing basic stuff in a half intelligent fashion would return plenty of answers along the infectious line BUT THE BASTARDS JUST WON'T DO IT!

Nelly

[infections] Re: Interesting experience

Rich.Thanks for the enlightenement. I did the amino acid urine profile and even took 2 months of amino acid profiled to my requirements ..Just as all other supplements I've tried, it did NOTHING..BUT! I also did something more intelligent..I saved a litre of urine and got an employee to give me a litre for comparison, my litre looked like I was shedding the inside of my bladder and his looked great.. taking both samples to my doctor and explaining to him that all the urine testing he orders is worthless when something so visable comes back normal in lab workups. I got the message across to him, tell your friends at the freakin lab that what is supposedly normal don't look too normal......My next step was to learn why the urine testing that often feels like it stings ain't revealing infection-WELL, THE LAB SITS THE SAMPLE IN FRONT OF A MACHINE THAT ONLY REGISTERS IF YOUR URINE GOES CLOUDY- THEY BASICALLY DON'T LOOK OR CARE IF YOUR GROWING BACTERIA AS THEY ARE ONLY CATERING FOR A PERCENTAGE OF THE COMMUNITY.. AS WE ALL ARE AWARE WE ARE THE PERCENTAGE THAT AIN'T BEING CATERED FOR.. SO THE TRUTHS ABOUT THESE ILNESSES ARE BEING TOUTED IN BRAIL BY PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF..tony .> >> > Hi all> > Just a little experience.... possably in the realm of > understanding > > the toxic nature of these ilnesses. Anyways I'm out and about with > my > > buddies there's five of us and we start the drinking sessions > usually > > with a few beers but as the night progresses the vodka cruisers > are > > the order of the day. Anyways we all end up with the watermelon > > flavoured red cruisers. All my mates point to my lips and > surrounding > > tissue and exclaim how red they are, wheras looking at their's > this > > does not seem to be the case. > > Well why I mention this is that the newcastle university > > cfs/fibromyalgia team where big on toxic studies and they > implicated > > a staph toxin called a membrane damaging, pore forming TOXIN in > there > > understanding of toxic culprits for these conditions. Now I have > been > > informed recently by Mr. R. Kronkenberger that the university of > > newcastle studies are a hoax.So I was able to convince my buddies > > that pointed this out to me that they were suffering from > dellusional > > disorder and a couple of them are currently seeking treatment. > > Anyways I can't understamnd how you can discredit a bacterial > study > > in the same fashion as the helicobacter study, when this is > SCIENCE > > AT IT'S MOST VISABLE. > > Also all the forums are CONSTANTLY DETOXING, TRYING TO GET THE > TOXINS > > OUT, and a hundred other explanations of how to get rid of the > toxic > > assaults, that seem to dog everyone.> > > > tony> >>

[Guest guest]

Nelly

Wow!!! I was expecting my usual slap in the face and I didn't get

it.I'm glad that your actually trying to tell rich that he is missing

something, instead of giving me my usual what for..

The nature of the beast made me develop strategies to get to where I

needed to go...especially the urine.. I had to get to the bottom of

the urine scenario for my own curiosity.I know people at the age of

50 odd that are having there bladders removed due to these idiotic no

clouding, no infection, half assed ideologies.Not to mention the

bullshit your going to endure visiting a urologist.

tony

-- In infections , " Nelly Pointis "

<janel@...> wrote:

>

> Tony,

>

> I totally agree with you, most of us don't need fancy tests to

prove that we are indeed very ill, just doing basic stuff in a half

intelligent fashion would return plenty of answers along the

infectious line BUT THE BASTARDS JUST WON'T DO IT!

>

> Nelly

> [infections] Re: Interesting experience

>

>

> Rich.

> Thanks for the enlightenement. I did the amino acid urine profile

and

> even took 2 months of amino acid profiled to my

requirements ..Just

> as all other supplements I've tried, it did NOTHING..

> BUT! I also did something more intelligent..I saved a litre of

urine

> and got an employee to give me a litre for comparison, my litre

> looked like I was shedding the inside of my bladder and his

looked

> great.. taking both samples to my doctor and explaining to him

that

> all the urine testing he orders is worthless when something so

> visable comes back normal in lab workups. I got the message

across to

> him, tell your friends at the freakin lab that what is supposedly

> normal don't look too normal......

> My next step was to learn why the urine testing that often feels

like

> it stings ain't revealing infection-WELL, THE LAB SITS THE SAMPLE

IN

> FRONT OF A MACHINE THAT ONLY REGISTERS IF YOUR URINE GOES CLOUDY-

> THEY BASICALLY DON'T LOOK OR CARE IF YOUR GROWING BACTERIA AS

THEY

> ARE ONLY CATERING FOR A PERCENTAGE OF THE COMMUNITY.. AS WE ALL

ARE

> AWARE WE ARE THE PERCENTAGE THAT AIN'T BEING CATERED FOR.. SO THE

> TRUTHS ABOUT THESE ILNESSES ARE BEING TOUTED IN BRAIL BY PEOPLE

LIKE

> YOURSELF..

> tony .

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi all

> > > Just a little experience.... possably in the realm of

> > understanding

> > > the toxic nature of these ilnesses. Anyways I'm out and about

> with

> > my

> > > buddies there's five of us and we start the drinking sessions

> > usually

> > > with a few beers but as the night progresses the vodka

cruisers

> > are

> > > the order of the day. Anyways we all end up with the

watermelon

> > > flavoured red cruisers. All my mates point to my lips and

> > surrounding

> > > tissue and exclaim how red they are, wheras looking at

their's

> > this

> > > does not seem to be the case.

> > > Well why I mention this is that the newcastle university

> > > cfs/fibromyalgia team where big on toxic studies and they

> > implicated

> > > a staph toxin called a membrane damaging, pore forming TOXIN

in

> > there

> > > understanding of toxic culprits for these conditions. Now I

have

> > been

> > > informed recently by Mr. R. Kronkenberger that the university

of

> > > newcastle studies are a hoax.So I was able to convince my

buddies

> > > that pointed this out to me that they were suffering from

> > dellusional

> > > disorder and a couple of them are currently seeking

treatment.

> > > Anyways I can't understamnd how you can discredit a bacterial

> > study

> > > in the same fashion as the helicobacter study, when this is

> > SCIENCE

> > > AT IT'S MOST VISABLE.

> > > Also all the forums are CONSTANTLY DETOXING, TRYING TO GET

THE

> > TOXINS

> > > OUT, and a hundred other explanations of how to get rid of

the

> > toxic

> > > assaults, that seem to dog everyone.

> > >

> > > tony

> > >

> >

>