Re: This ad for cat's claw aka samento should clarify

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I've read this, but the Samento sellers used this "quinilone" factor as an advantage until they became aware of the tendon issues. Then they started saying that the quinolones are not the same, because the abx have FLOUROquinilones, changing them dramatically. So what I need to know, to feel confident about any of this from either side, is whether quinovic acid glycosides are really the same in the abx and the plant and whether they're really responsible for the amx properties and/or the tendon problems. It's hard to find any kind of actual proof that the abx and the samento really do have these properties in common. Seriously, I dug into this a lot and could never find any kind of proof linking the two together. All the so called "research" originated with the manufacturer and their head doctor/spokesperson. I ended up doubting the whole quinolone/Samento connection more than

believing it. When I asked questions I'd get my head bitten off rather than a straight answer. So I was kind of hoping that perhaps there was new evidence since I looked into it. As far as people's experience with it, over the years, I've gotten jaded and don't put lots of stock into anecdotal evidence when it comes to new treatments, especially "natural" ones. I've done the complete 180 from where I started out years ago. As much as I distrust conventional medicine's motives, I have slightly more confidence in their methods. pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Here is the sentence from the article below connecting samento with quinolones. a Carnes"In addition, Prima Uña de Gato contains quinovic acid glycosides,the natural compounds upon which the synthetic antibiotic quinolones arebased."(http://www.healthherbs.com/research...-newsletter.php)The Possible Benefits of Prima Uña de Gato (TOA Free Cat's Claw), a DietarySupplementProvides active ingredients that can help modulate and support immunefunction, and is free of tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids (TOAs)Can help regulate inflammation and microbial balance in the gastrointestinalsystemProvides antioxidant activity and support of circulationUña de Gato (Uncaria tomentosa), or cat's claw, has

long been used byindigenous healers in the rainforests of the Peruvian Andes and elsewhere inSouth America. In recent times it has been studied for its ability tosupport gastrointestinal and immune functions. In the gastrointestinaltract, it has been shown to help control inflammation and microbial balance,and soothe irritated tissue. Research into its ability to support the immunesystem has shown that it has antioxidant properties, which may support thebody's inhibition of the development of potentially aberrant cells. It cansupport circulation through the strengthening of capillaries.Prima Uña de Gato is a standardized whole herb, manufactured using aproprietary process that does not involve the use of solvents. Regular cat'sclaw contains both tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids and pentacyclic oxindolealkaloids, whereas Prima Uña de Gato is standardized to 0.5% pentacyclicoxindole

alkaloids (POAs), and is 100% free of tetracyclic oxindolealkaloids (TOAs). Why is this distinction important? Regular cat's clawtypically has a total alkaloid content of 3.0%, with up to 20-25% of thatalkaloid content in the form of TOAs. Prima Uña de Gato extract,standardized to a minimum of 0.5% POA, is free of TOA. The POA content ofPrima Uña de Gato is much more effective, because immune enhancement isdiminished when the two chemotypes are mixed. TOAs are chemical antagoniststhat act upon the central nervous system and can greatly inhibit thepositive effect of the POAs. POAs primarily affect the immune cellsresponsible for nonspecific and cellular immunity, and demonstrate powerfulimmune system modu-lating properties. In short, Prima Uña de Gato,containing only POAs, may have more benefit for immune enhancement than astandard cat's claw containing both pentacyclic and tetracyclic

alkaloids.TOA-free chemotype cat's claw can help to restore and boost the immunesystem. The POAs are the active ingredients that provide the principalimmunomodulating and immunostimulating activity. POAs are actively involvedin the functional mechanisms of both innate and acquired immunity, assistingin the maintenance of the immune system's structural and functionalintegrity. In addition, Prima Uña de Gato contains quinovic acid glycosides,the natural compounds upon which the synthetic antibiotic quinolones arebased.TOA-free cat's claw was introduced into Bulgaria, which has a highoccurrence of Borrelia burgdorferi, in January 2001, where it quickly becamethe most widely sold natural remedy in that country. TOA-free chemotype cat's claw has been used by Dr. Atanas Tzonkov in Bulgaria's largest privatemedical clinic, in the nutritional support for thousands of patients,involving

over 100 conditions. Also in 2001, the Hungarian NationalInstitute of Pharmacy (OGYI), equivalent to the U.S. FDA, approved TOA-freechemotype cat's claw for over-the-counter use.Prima Uña de Gato offers a significant advancement in our understanding ofthe best utilization of Uncaria tomentosa. The Prima Uña de Gato formula ispotentized with minerals and enzymes to support detoxifi-cation, and hasbeen clinically tested. Atanas Tzonkov, director of the Lechitel Clinic inSofia, Bulgaria, has stated that TOA-free chemotype cat's claw can fortify aperson's own self-healing power which Nature has built into his spirit, mindand body.Each capsule contains:Cat's Claw (bark) (standardized to 0.5% POAs) 375 mgMagnesium (as Magnesium Malate) 19 mgManganese (as Manganese Citrate) 30 mcgChromium (as Chromium Polynicotinate) 5 mcgProtease 30000 HUTCellulase 1600

CUOther ingredients: Bamboo fiber.Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, 1 capsule 1 to 3 times daily, on anempty stomach, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.Use under medical supervision. Herxheimer reaction may occur. Notrecommended for pregnant or nursing women or organ transplant recipients.

[Guest guest]

Penny, I don't know the answer to this. I do know that quite a few

patients such as myself and others who get tendon pain from

quinolones also react badly to samento. In fact I was just talking

with a woman who took it three days and is now in extreme pain for a

few weeks. I cannot tolerate quinine water.

I did contact the MD who " wrote the book " on quinolones esp talked

about CNS damage from it (Jay Cohen). He wrote back that he had no

idea if samento was the same as a quinolone.

One more thought - the stories about Lariam are pretty disturbing -

again looking like CNS damage.

If I can find a good article I will send it along. I think the reason

you and I are not finding such an article is the main stream docs

don't have a clue what is in samento, cat's claw etc.

a

>

> Yeah, I've read this, but the Samento sellers used this " quinilone "

factor as an advantage until they became aware of the tendon issues.

Then they started saying that the quinolones are not the same,

because the abx have FLOUROquinilones, changing them dramatically.

>

> So what I need to know, to feel confident about any of this from

either side, is whether quinovic acid glycosides are really the same

in the abx and the plant and whether they're really responsible for

the amx properties and/or the tendon problems. It's hard to find any

kind of actual proof that the abx and the samento really do have

these properties in common.

>

> Seriously, I dug into this a lot and could never find any kind of

proof linking the two together. All the so called " research "

originated with the manufacturer and their head doctor/spokesperson.

I ended up doubting the whole quinolone/Samento connection more than

believing it. When I asked questions I'd get my head bitten off

rather than a straight answer. So I was kind of hoping that perhaps

there was new evidence since I looked into it.

>

> As far as people's experience with it, over the years, I've

gotten jaded and don't put lots of stock into anecdotal evidence when

it comes to new treatments, especially " natural " ones. I've done the

complete 180 from where I started out years ago. As much as I

distrust conventional medicine's motives, I have slightly more

confidence in their methods.

>

>

> pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

> Here is the sentence from the article below connecting

samento with

> quinolones. a Carnes

>

> " In addition, Prima Uña de Gato contains quinovic acid glycosides,

> the natural compounds upon which the synthetic antibiotic

quinolones

> are

> based. "

>

> (http://www.healthherbs.com/research...-newsletter.php)

>

> The Possible Benefits of Prima Uña de Gato (TOA Free Cat's Claw), a

> Dietary

> Supplement

>

> Provides active ingredients that can help modulate and support

immune

> function, and is free of tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids (TOAs)

> Can help regulate inflammation and microbial balance in the

> gastrointestinal

> system

> Provides antioxidant activity and support of circulation

> Uña de Gato (Uncaria tomentosa), or cat's claw, has long been used

by

> indigenous healers in the rainforests of the Peruvian Andes and

> elsewhere in

> South America. In recent times it has been studied for its ability

to

> support gastrointestinal and immune functions. In the

gastrointestinal

> tract, it has been shown to help control inflammation and microbial

> balance,

> and soothe irritated tissue. Research into its ability to support

the

> immune

> system has shown that it has antioxidant properties, which may

> support the

> body's inhibition of the development of potentially aberrant cells.

> It can

> support circulation through the strengthening of capillaries.

>

> Prima Uña de Gato is a standardized whole herb, manufactured using a

> proprietary process that does not involve the use of solvents.

> Regular cat's

> claw contains both tetracyclic oxindole alkaloids and pentacyclic

> oxindole

> alkaloids, whereas Prima Uña de Gato is standardized to 0.5%

> pentacyclic

> oxindole alkaloids (POAs), and is 100% free of tetracyclic oxindole

> alkaloids (TOAs). Why is this distinction important? Regular cat's

> claw

> typically has a total alkaloid content of 3.0%, with up to 20-25%

of

> that

> alkaloid content in the form of TOAs. Prima Uña de Gato extract,

> standardized to a minimum of 0.5% POA, is free of TOA. The POA

> content of

> Prima Uña de Gato is much more effective, because immune

enhancement

> is

> diminished when the two chemotypes are mixed. TOAs are chemical

> antagonists

> that act upon the central nervous system and can greatly inhibit the

> positive effect of the POAs. POAs primarily affect the immune cells

> responsible for nonspecific and cellular immunity, and demonstrate

> powerful

> immune system modu-lating properties. In short, Prima Uña de Gato,

> containing only POAs, may have more benefit for immune enhancement

> than a

> standard cat's claw containing both pentacyclic and tetracyclic

> alkaloids.

>

> TOA-free chemotype cat's claw can help to restore and boost the

immune

> system. The POAs are the active ingredients that provide the

principal

> immunomodulating and immunostimulating activity. POAs are actively

> involved

> in the functional mechanisms of both innate and acquired immunity,

> assisting

> in the maintenance of the immune system's structural and functional

> integrity. In addition, Prima Uña de Gato contains quinovic acid

> glycosides,

> the natural compounds upon which the synthetic antibiotic

quinolones

> are

> based.

>

> TOA-free cat's claw was introduced into Bulgaria, which has a high

> occurrence of Borrelia burgdorferi, in January 2001, where it

quickly

> became

> the most widely sold natural remedy in that country. TOA-free

> chemotype cat'

> s claw has been used by Dr. Atanas Tzonkov in Bulgaria's largest

> private

> medical clinic, in the nutritional support for thousands of

patients,

> involving over 100 conditions. Also in 2001, the Hungarian National

> Institute of Pharmacy (OGYI), equivalent to the U.S. FDA, approved

> TOA-free

> chemotype cat's claw for over-the-counter use.

>

> Prima Uña de Gato offers a significant advancement in our

> understanding of

> the best utilization of Uncaria tomentosa. The Prima Uña de Gato

> formula is

> potentized with minerals and enzymes to support detoxifi-cation,

and

> has

> been clinically tested. Atanas Tzonkov, director of the Lechitel

> Clinic in

> Sofia, Bulgaria, has stated that TOA-free chemotype cat's claw can

> fortify a

> person's own self-healing power which Nature has built into his

> spirit, mind

> and body.

>

> Each capsule contains:

>

> Cat's Claw (bark) (standardized to 0.5% POAs) 375 mg

>

> Magnesium (as Magnesium Malate) 19 mg

>

> Manganese (as Manganese Citrate) 30 mcg

>

> Chromium (as Chromium Polynicotinate) 5 mcg

>

> Protease 30000 HUT

>

> Cellulase 1600 CU

>

> Other ingredients: Bamboo fiber.

>

> Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, 1 capsule 1 to 3 times

daily,

> on an

> empty stomach, or as directed by a healthcare practitioner.

>

> Use under medical supervision. Herxheimer reaction may occur. Not

> recommended for pregnant or nursing women or organ transplant

> recipients.

>