Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Tony, You real dumb or you just pretending? Nelly [infections] INTERESTING TV Hi allI was watching things that bite-doco on mosquito's flies and ticks even.Ok the guy hailed from some country town that had prairie dogs on adjascent land. The father of the house is a Dr. and he's home with younger son. the father is running a fever 104. SOn gets him to ER, the ER doctor runs parasitic smears/cultures and a few others and diagnosis BOrrelia. Basically clear cut spiro's in a blood smear. I can't understand why the alternative(LLMD's) docs don't have this simple ability, that sits comfortably in most vet practises. A simple smear was easy and very obviously swarming with borrelia. And they where moving on the slide.How can something so easy not be replicated?tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Nelly I study bacteria, you read bullshit. If you have a borrelia infection like this guy did, you cannot fail to get treatment, and anything you need to get you well..everything else is not standing up. How can any medical establishemnt tell this guy we don't believe you. He can sue for 100 million dollars with this type of overwhelming evidence and without a doubt no jury would refuse him a dollar of what he asked for.. by being so poorly treated...It's the LLMD " S that don't get you this type of proof that need investigating and put out of business. IF YOUR NOT DOING YOUR JOB, YOU SHOULD BE SCRUTINISED.By doing your job in such circumstances the follow up workups tell you your on target to keep improving your patient.WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TURNING UP AT YOUR DOCTORS AND GETTING SCREENED FOR PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Geez would malaria be confirmed cured without a couple of follow up blood smears? Please stop reading stuff that doesn't equate to anyone and focus on the ill and the getting better true life studies... that's the reading material that matters.. and if in doubt try and get these people on the other side of the phone so they can share there story , like I alway's do.. AGAIN, WHAT'S WRONG WITH PEOPLE PERFORMING SIMPLE TASKS TO GET YOU ON TRACK AND BETTER. WOULDN'T YOU LIKE TO GO HOME AND TELL YOUR HUSBAND YOUR PARASITIC COUNTS WENT FROM 20% TO 15 %..DON'T YOU GET SICK OF THRASHING SOMETHING NOT SOUND IN ANY MEDICAL ESTABLISHEMNT..get it right as the treatment that follows is closer to correct... tony > > Tony, > > You real dumb or you just pretending? > > Nelly > [infections] INTERESTING TV > > > Hi all > I was watching things that bite-doco on mosquito's flies and ticks > even.Ok the guy hailed from some country town that had prairie dogs on > adjascent land. The father of the house is a Dr. and he's home with > younger son. the father is running a fever 104. SOn gets him to ER, the > ER doctor runs parasitic smears/cultures and a few others and diagnosis > BOrrelia. Basically clear cut spiro's in a blood smear. I can't > understand why the alternative(LLMD's) docs don't have this simple > ability, that sits comfortably in most vet practises. A simple smear > was easy and very obviously swarming with borrelia. And they where > moving on the slide.How can something so easy not be replicated? > tony > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Tony, it's the difference between an acute condition and a chronic condition. Nobody tries to deny acute Lyme disease (or if they do, they're really stupid). The question is what happens when you have an untreated acute infection that goes chronic and the bacteria burrow into places they can't be found and morph into forms that aren't easily detected. Or if you have a treated infection and just can't seem to kill it off -- similar symptoms come back later. The obvious evidence has disappeared in many cases, so people argue about what that means. But I suspect you know the theory.- KateOn Aug 20, 2006, at 12:55 PM, dumbaussie2000 wrote:If you have a borrelia infection like this guy did, you cannot fail to get treatment, and anything you need to get you well..everything else is not standing up. How can any medical establishemnt tell this guy we don't believe you. He can sue for 100 million dollars with this type of overwhelming evidence and without a doubt no jury would refuse him a dollar of what he asked for.. by being so poorly treated...It's the LLMD"S that don't get you this type of proof that need investigating and put out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Tony, I won't even bother reading your endless diatribes but I feel I should just explain why I was, once again!, annoyed at your repetitive assumptions! The World According to Tony: "Bacteria are all floating about freely in blood or up prople's noses so all one needs to do is put a drop of blood or a bit of snot on a some culture medium and VOILA: all bacteria identified! Then all one needs to do is drop some abx on the culture and then we know what is making us sick." Has it ever occured to you that you are growing the bacteria that are easy to reach and that grow easily, and that by definition you won't grow the ones you haven't managed to get onto your plate because they are out of your reach, and that you won't grow the ones that are fastidious or impossible to grow? And has it occured to you that "not grown in Tony's garage" does not mean "does not exist" or "does not make people ill"? The man in your documentary with a tick-bite and a 104° fever would have had loads of borrelia swimming around in his blood for all to see in a smear, unlike most people who end up consulting LLMDs who are long term chronic sufferers and at their stage in their illness spiros are no longer swimming around in blood in large numbers for all to see. All this being said, I shall repeat once more that YOU AND PENNY ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE TO THINK THAT ALL KINDS OF BACTERIA (SOME FAST GROWERS LIKE STAPH, SOME SLOW GROWERS LIKE BORRELIA ETC) PLAY A CENTRAL ROLE IN OUR ILLNESSES. Nelly [infections] INTERESTING TV> > > Hi all> I was watching things that bite-doco on mosquito's flies and ticks > even.Ok the guy hailed from some country town that had prairie dogs on > adjascent land. The father of the house is a Dr. and he's home with > younger son. the father is running a fever 104. SOn gets him to ER, the > ER doctor runs parasitic smears/cultures and a few others and diagnosis > BOrrelia. Basically clear cut spiro's in a blood smear. I can't > understand why the alternative(LLMD's) docs don't have this simple > ability, that sits comfortably in most vet practises. A simple smear > was easy and very obviously swarming with borrelia. And they where > moving on the slide.How can something so easy not be replicated?> tony> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb. Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts. However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola. It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the Brorson MS detection, anything? Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both did the same thing at once. Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Kate My problem is that these people that practise this kind of medicine don't have the one million web pages on the net showing CLEARLY any part of what is going down with there ill patients.You also can't be bedbound with a parasitic load that's hiding in your tissue.. We are a crumbling skeleton/inflammed organs, brains and nervous system, our ilness ain't hidinmg anything.This notion that your suffering something akin to malaria and you have nothing swimming in your bloostream is floored in all aspects of modern medicine.Focus should be turned to the red cell destruction experienced by many to show that there truly is something in the blood.. Someone turning up and showing there patient with spiro's swimming in there blood CAN'T LOSE IN COURT IMO... How many people are suspect with there bought Igenex diagnosis. I spot this all over the forums.I'm sorry but the lyme people need to keep pushing up the bar so that the evidence is OVERWHELMING and can't possably lose in any type of hearing/country or medical setting.You must understand that they ain't stealth, they are the size of an aeroplane when most bacteria are the size of a bike. Again if you looked at your body suffering from these diseases you resemble a rusted, clapped out old bomb car that is hard to call a silk purse. Your lungs ain't right, your heart ain't right, your livers suspect, your skeleton barely supports you.All you want is the best treatment strategy to get you on track, having an IGENEX positive doesn't guarantee anyof this.I'm sorry again but I'm not at fault for being sceptical, the people doing the testing leave huge gaps that can only be filled with skepticism.... by myself as well as you can observe by the whole medical/governemnt establishemnt.I also read carefully and when someone is doing great on therapy one month and they relapse and don't do so hot on round 2 of the antibiotic that made them feel great last month, your talking agents that twist and turn on drugs, at this point you do need to open up your mind. Good one month, relapse, and the treatment didn't do it second time around?? What would you call this? > > > If you have a borrelia infection > > like this guy did, you cannot fail to get treatment, and anything you > > need to get you well..everything else is not standing up. How can any > > medical establishemnt tell this guy we don't believe you. He can sue > > for 100 million dollars with this type of overwhelming evidence and > > without a doubt no jury would refuse him a dollar of what he asked > > for.. by being so poorly treated...It's the LLMD " S that don't get > > you this type of proof that need investigating and put out of > > business. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 It isn't expensive? Most microscopes have the ability to attach a camera and you can record video- this is patient 112 and this is his blood.. this patient is bed bound and is not getting treatment by the american medical establishemnt. This is a two dollar exercise to get a blood slide going?Who would the lay person side with if your blood resembles a sewer.. You'd freakin have 99% of the population burning down medical establishments for you if people showed this and weren't being treated.This is what you guys have to turn around instead of blowing the trumpet with out any ammunition. > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb. > > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts. > > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola. > > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything? > > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once. > > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. We all agree, we even agree with Tony, and if it weren't for Tony constantly telling us we don't (agree with him) and telling us we are idiots who read Medline instead of sticking cotton buds up our noses, our exchanges would not have that unpleasant belligerent tone most of the time. I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the Brorson MS detection, anything?Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both did the same thing at once.Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Try reading about tuberculoid leprosy and tertiary syphilis and youre in for a big surprise. They may not be what they seem but on the other hand its quite possible that they are exactly what they seem. Especially now that tuberculoid leprosy has yielded lower PCR positivity rates than lepromatous has with at least some protocols (havent read all this in detail, but heard about it in a review). Except for the PCR part, these are not some kind of lofty academic findings. The microscopy is done again and again out in the clinic and even field clinics, and no swarms of bugs are ever seen. > Kate > My problem is that these people that practise this kind of medicine > don't have the one million web pages on the net showing CLEARLY any > part of what is going down with there ill patients.You also can't be > bedbound with a parasitic load that's hiding in your tissue.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 > I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. Yeah, its easy for us to criticise out here or underestimate establishment resistance, but this just has to be done by hook or crook. Scientists may lean pretty hard on prejudice sometimes, but they will all bow to solid evidence if its widely repeated. The money thing may be an issue. Fallon has a lab. The lab is at Columbia where theres no shortage of equipment such as TEMs. It still costs alot to run it; he needs a technician because he probably doesnt have time to do much in the lab himself (it really can take time). Fallon can have done anything he wants in his lab - anything he can get money for. If we gave him money or ILADS did or the MS society did or the CFS society did, he could do anything he (or they) wanted. If not, he can only do what NIH will fund him for. He may have submitted grants to NIH which are like the things we are talking about, but which they turned down. Maybe we could put something together about, say protein confirmation for the bowen assay (which I think the UK authorities have said is not acceptable so far), and find a researcher with a lab, and then try to raise money the same way they do for the LLMD legal defenses. Maybe not every researcher would want to take on sponsorship coming from public fundraising; I dont know. It might seem unpresitigous or something. The thing is, I'm not sure you would even need any " serious " money to just have a few labs try to just DO the Bowen and publish that. All you do is get blood, apply the antibody, done. It might cost more than one might think, but still not alot. You need access to a lab fluoromicroscope. I dont see why this much hasnt been done. That would be a doorway to proving bacterial causition, which if it is true and can be proven, is a doorway to $1B a year in spending to figure out how to kill them. Or more. The current and (especially) projected annual costs of Alzheimers are completely astronomical. " The Alzheimer's Association estimates the annual cost of the illness by 2050 will reach $375 billion, about what the United States now spends for national defense. " I assume theyre talking 2006 dollars, but I'm not sure. Our entire nation budget is now $2.338 trillion. So fighting alzheimers is a huge priority right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Well, say you want to do the Bowen. You need a fluoromicroscope. I've seen them online for like $4.5k but I have no clue if those are any good optically. I think the ones bowen uses are like $10-25k. And the video setup they use is also a few $k I would think. So its basically like buying a new car. Not easy money to say goodbye to, but maybe ILADS should raise money from us and themselves and have their own fluoro lab. > > It isn't expensive? Most microscopes have the ability to attach a > camera and you can record video- this is patient 112 and this is his > blood.. this patient is bed bound and is not getting treatment by the > american medical establishemnt. This is a two dollar exercise to get > a blood slide going?Who would the lay person side with if your blood > resembles a sewer.. You'd freakin have 99% of the population burning > down medical establishments for you if people showed this and weren't > being treated.This is what you guys have to turn around instead of > blowing the trumpet with out any ammunition. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 ' They can only grow leprosy on mouse feet pads ...This is an ilness which liquifies your tissues, I don't think they need to hear anything abnormal from medical people with such a shocking looking ilness. What your LLMD's have to answer to is congress and whoever else is ranting and raving. If I was the senator from texas and got both myself and my wife a positive igenex test, how would it look to all the other senators when I have no ilness to concern myself over. You can't play this type of game and hang your hat on every word or document you read. I found out early that no-one other than a bonafidi sufferer of cfs/ fibroimyalgia could ever satisfy me on the understanding of this disease. The med articles never ever stacked up for me so I learnt to read them very very carefully and not take too much in. I can't believe that no-one on the planet realises that staph epidermis is frequently vancomycin resistant. Try finding any article to support this...Six weeks of vanco I thought and I can cure the world of most of it's ills.I get samples from people that are supposedly labratory vanco sensitive and I only see resistance. This is soemone that only ever got a break from his fatigue for one week while doing vancomycin.Yet on subsequent runs he could not get a thing out of this therapy.The labs themselves buy into the literature and green light stuff that's not correct. There's a lot going on that's all about the ease for doctors doing anything and the greed for designers of new ways to make the diagnosis buck. PCR at this point is still very limited IMO. I definately think it's brilliant for clamydia and gonorreah wherby it looks for the toxins in the urine as well as remnants of the bacteria. Outside of this I have had conversations with people and they themselves doing the testing give me the feeling that it's at the all about the money stage of the game. Also you put so much energy into reading stuff wouldn't you feel heaps better if you where at the looking for real answers stage..I wouldn't think it would be very hard to find a spirochete in your blood if you were unwell at the time you looked? But if you don't find anything.. start looking at the fact your unwell and your red cells counts are dropping/damaged and start reprograming yourself to focus of whjat's in front of you. > > > Try reading about tuberculoid leprosy and tertiary syphilis and youre > in for a big surprise. They may not be what they seem but on the other > hand its quite possible that they are exactly what they seem. > > Especially now that tuberculoid leprosy has yielded lower PCR > positivity rates than lepromatous has with at least some protocols > (havent read all this in detail, but heard about it in a review). > > Except for the PCR part, these are not some kind of lofty academic > findings. The microscopy is done again and again out in the clinic and > even field clinics, and no swarms of bugs are ever seen. > > > Kate > > My problem is that these people that practise this kind of medicine > > don't have the one million web pages on the net showing CLEARLY any > > part of what is going down with there ill patients.You also can't be > > bedbound with a parasitic load that's hiding in your tissue.. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I've worked the labs and they have twenty microscopes of varying degree's of capaboilities. Every doctyor is working closely with labs and the setup costs of labs run into millions the equipment that counts blood is like quarter of a million per machine. Talking from a doctor's position asking that they modify a scope for flouresence because they will grow there business is something I could have done with my lab dealings. Doctors are in charge of labs, they make the rules and set the agenda's the labs play I'm dumb give the doctor what he wants games.I went to a doctor that is higher up in the ranking but not a specialist, this guy had the lab at his mercy like nothing I've seen, so again it's the freaken doctors that are at the bullshit end of this game. tony > > Well, say you want to do the Bowen. You need a fluoromicroscope. I've > seen them online for like $4.5k but I have no clue if those are any > good optically. I think the ones bowen uses are like $10-25k. And the > video setup they use is also a few $k I would think. > > So its basically like buying a new car. Not easy money to say goodbye > to, but maybe ILADS should raise money from us and themselves and have > their own fluoro lab. > > > > > > It isn't expensive? Most microscopes have the ability to attach a > > camera and you can record video- this is patient 112 and this is his > > blood.. this patient is bed bound and is not getting treatment by the > > american medical establishemnt. This is a two dollar exercise to get > > a blood slide going?Who would the lay person side with if your blood > > resembles a sewer.. You'd freakin have 99% of the population burning > > down medical establishments for you if people showed this and weren't > > being treated.This is what you guys have to turn around instead of > > blowing the trumpet with out any ammunition. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 *****I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't**** Nelly I also use this type of attitude and aggro when dealing with doctors and I'm sitting at 100% well at the moment, so I must be doing something that works... that basically got nurtured by dickheads in the medical system.My best buddy from san diego doesn't put up with any nonsense herself, she'll walk into a doctors office screen him for knowing anything about infections and cut him short and leave. Then nicely let his secretary realise your boss is a dickhead and is wasting my time.. Ohh!! and she'd be on the phone making sure she didn't get charged for someone wasting her time.That's what the system nurtured in her. I've been yelling since day one that people get some attitude and bring it along in the form of husbands and relatives to doctors appointemnts when the appointments are not running correctly..Is there something wrong with yelling out PEOPLE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY THERE BEING TREATED.....I'm sorry Nelly but if you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant and rave at me like I'm the enemy.Actually you should direct some of this anger at people like rich at experimental that keep shoving genetic defect in people's faces.. he needs your total aggro for sharing crap and not focusing on the wave of people that got mowed down in one hit by being at the wrong place. > > I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. > > We all agree, we even agree with Tony, and if it weren't for Tony constantly telling us we don't (agree with him) and telling us we are idiots who read Medline instead of sticking cotton buds up our noses, our exchanges would not have that unpleasant belligerent tone most of the time. > > I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't > > Nelly > [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV > > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb. > > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts. > > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola. > > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything? > > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once. > > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Tony, >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. If anyone who knows me were to read this comment they'd piss themselves laughing!! You know NOTHING re how I deal with doctors or with anything else for that matter and I am not going to start justifying myself to you, but with your permission I will frwrd your mail to someone in Sydney who needs a bit of cheering up at the moment. You're giving me lessons in how to show aggro to doctors and how to let them know they are dickheads and not paying their bills if dissatisfied, and bringing in a husband/friend to witness every visit etc. all this will cheer her up no end. You might hear her laugh all the way from Melbourne. >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. You're not the enemy you're a pain in the arse, you are constantly breaking down doors that are wide open, you are constantly raving about what is OBVIOUS to most here, that's what I am sick and tired of reading from you. You are constantly raving as if everybody disagreed with you. In fact you behave like a high functioning autistic person, the Asperger-type. In fact I suspect this is why the kind people on this list are so tolerant of you, and I guess that's how I should also react to you but you see it's the damn balls in my pants that are making me nasty and agressive!! >Actually you should direct some of >this anger at people like rich at experimental that keep shoving >genetic defect in people's faces.. he needs your total aggro for >sharing crap and not focusing on the wave of people that got mowed >down in one hit by being at the wrong place. I see no reason at all to attack Rich on what he is trying to do. He is exploring certain aspects of things which might be upstream or downstream (or both) of the infectious stuff going on, and I am finding it interesting even if, personally, I choose to address primarily the bacterial stuff in the hope that the rest will take care of itself once I have managed to get rid of enough infection. Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV> > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.> > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.> > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.> > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything?> > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once.> > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Well, it usually takes an obnoxious loud mouth to finally get some people to listen. That's why I tolerate it, because as much as YOU, Nelly, believe that a lot of people know what you know, I BELIEVE that they don't. I believe that very few people know about bacteria. I'm so glad to see people finally saying that YES, LLMD's need to identify, identify, identify. Now, if they could take it one step further, just broaden their scope a little to try to identify every pathogenic organism, they would truly be my heroes. As much as I don't like Shoemaker's treatment protocol, I do very much appreciate him as being one of the few doctors out there who tests for bacteria ANd fungi of all sorts. And he won't back down from it. Right on for him, because he's the only one really doing it. I just wish he'd get a little more hardcore about how he treats. And recognize how pervasive these organisms are, and how difficult to eradicate once they get a foothold whether you've got low MSH or not. pennyNelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. We all agree, we even agree with Tony, and if it weren't for Tony constantly telling us we don't (agree with him) and telling us we are idiots who read Medline instead of sticking cotton buds up our noses, our exchanges would not have that unpleasant belligerent tone most of the time. I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the Brorson MS detection, anything?Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both did the same thing at once.Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Penny, >I'm so glad to see people finally saying that YES, LLMD's need to identify, identify, identify. I have ALWAYS said this! And I am not alone in thinking this. It's really off-putting to be told again and again that you're an idiot for not believing smthng you have been believing for over 2 decades! I have been battling these severe infections for 25 years, I have fought so many battles so many doctors, I have nearly died on several occasions, I have lost so much because of the stupidity of the medical establishment that I am finding Tony's rants really objectionable. Others also find his extreme bulliness objectionable. I'm sick to tears of reading Tony's tyrades, he once learnt a few things re bacteria, so he now thinks that what he has not encountered does not exist, and he'll just rubbish anyone who dares to wish to discuss infectious agents he is not familiar with. Nodody is claiming that staph or pseudomonas are not important pathogens, why does he have to rave about stuff he obviously knows very little about like Borrelia, Rickettsia or Babesia to name just a few? Does the fact that spah and pseudomonas cause infections exclude all other pathogens? Do we have to take sides? Do you prefer your mum or your dad? >As much as I don't like Shoemaker's treatment protocol, I think Tony means Rich VanK on not Ritchie Shoemaker Penny, I think people are convinced of the importance of bacterial pathogens in our chronic illnesses IN SPITE of Tony not BECAUSE of him Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the Brorson MS detection, anything?Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both did the same thing at once.Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nelly Can you please find me a post where someone walks into a doctors appointmnent and let's rip, experimental would be a great place as there's over 100.000 posts? All I ever read is how they plod along every month and there doctors ran out of idea's 10 years earlier. I also read the great articles they keep presenting that never, ever, get read. Also your queryiong my mental state. I was a high achiever and alway's had hurdles that I had to strategise around on a daily basis.I left no corner of the world untouched in my business endevours and frequently rang the engineer's direct to save myself 4 hours diagnosisng time when the engineer would get you there in five minutes.I also dealt with technology that was cutting edge in our country often..I also found being polite, using humour, and being rude and demanding all had a place in the business world I was conquering.Unfortunately succesfull people may have a dark side, because I obviously don't conform to what you consider I should conform to. I also leave the topic of Bb alone for many months and bring it up when something warrants... and guess what, this is the first time the tide is starting to turn and people are questioning what they held strong beliefs in. > I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. > > We all agree, we even agree with Tony, and if it weren't for Tony constantly telling us we don't (agree with him) and telling us we are idiots who read Medline instead of sticking cotton buds up our noses, our exchanges would not have that unpleasant belligerent tone most of the time. > > I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't > > Nelly > [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV > > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb. > > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts. > > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola. > > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything? > > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once. > > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 "Nodody is claiming that staph or pseudomonas are not important pathogens..." Huh? How many docs do you know who acknowledged these pathogens, let alone posters on PWC forums? If you've got a list, I'd like to see it, because it's rare indeed, in my world. If there weren't a few people in the world to make a big stink about injustices, nothing would ever change. You don't have to agree with everything they say, you don't have to like these people, and you definitely shouldn't take their words personally. But I for one, am glad they exist, and I don't care how many feathers they ruffle, because they're passionate about changing something that needs changing. Tony's passionate about this injustice, and he doesn't even need to be. He's no longer sick. He does it because he doesn't like seeing others sick, needlessly. So I for one, am glad that there's someone who's well, who will stand up for me, cuz I need all the help I can get. penny Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: Penny, >I'm so glad to see people finally saying that YES, LLMD's need to identify, identify, identify. I have ALWAYS said this! And I am not alone in thinking this. It's really off-putting to be told again and again that you're an idiot for not believing smthng you have been believing for over 2 decades! I have been battling these severe infections for 25 years, I have fought so many battles so many doctors, I have nearly died on several occasions, I have lost so much because of the stupidity of the medical establishment that I am finding Tony's rants really objectionable. Others also find his extreme bulliness objectionable. I'm sick to tears of reading Tony's tyrades, he once learnt a few things re bacteria, so he now thinks that what he has not encountered does not exist, and he'll just rubbish anyone who dares to wish to discuss infectious agents he is not familiar with. Nodody is claiming that staph or pseudomonas are not important pathogens, why does he have to rave about stuff he obviously knows very little about like Borrelia, Rickettsia or Babesia to name just a few? Does the fact that spah and pseudomonas cause infections exclude all other pathogens? Do we have to take sides? Do you prefer your mum or your dad? >As much as I don't like Shoemaker's treatment protocol, I think Tony means Rich VanK on not Ritchie Shoemaker Penny, I think people are convinced of the importance of bacterial pathogens in our chronic illnesses IN SPITE of Tony not BECAUSE of him Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the Brorson MS detection, anything?Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both did the same thing at once.Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 You put the case very well Nelly , I don't post here any more .I have become increasingly uncomfortable in posting on this group ,I find him totally unacceptable and dangerously uninformed ..My daughter is a microbiologist I would have thought the questions to ask me would be how does a mainstream NHS lab view spiroes , what is the incidence ? Ditto pseudomonas, resistant staph etc; but no he questions my daughter character ,motives, not testing me on the QT ...Penny thinks he's cured , but its clear he's not .Penny's unswerving devotion is reminiscent of teenagers and pop stars, to the observer in an adult it's un-nerving ...High functioning Autistic ! ..I think there's a good chance he's a 14 yr old sent from hell ....Bye Bye Group ... -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 21 August 2006 15:59infections Subject: Re: [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Tony, >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. If anyone who knows me were to read this comment they'd piss themselves laughing!! You know NOTHING re how I deal with doctors or with anything else for that matter and I am not going to start justifying myself to you, but with your permission I will frwrd your mail to someone in Sydney who needs a bit of cheering up at the moment. You're giving me lessons in how to show aggro to doctors and how to let them know they are dickheads and not paying their bills if dissatisfied, and bringing in a husband/friend to witness every visit etc. all this will cheer her up no end. You might hear her laugh all the way from Melbourne. >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. You're not the enemy you're a pain in the arse, you are constantly breaking down doors that are wide open, you are constantly raving about what is OBVIOUS to most here, that's what I am sick and tired of reading from you. You are constantly raving as if everybody disagreed with you. In fact you behave like a high functioning autistic person, the Asperger-type. In fact I suspect this is why the kind people on this list are so tolerant of you, and I guess that's how I should also react to you but you see it's the damn balls in my pants that are making me nasty and agressive!! >Actually you should direct some of >this anger at people like rich at experimental that keep shoving >genetic defect in people's faces.. he needs your total aggro for >sharing crap and not focusing on the wave of people that got mowed >down in one hit by being at the wrong place. I see no reason at all to attack Rich on what he is trying to do. He is exploring certain aspects of things which might be upstream or downstream (or both) of the infectious stuff going on, and I am finding it interesting even if, personally, I choose to address primarily the bacterial stuff in the hope that the rest will take care of itself once I have managed to get rid of enough infection. Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV> > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.> > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.> > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.> > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything?> > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once.> > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Nelly I, last week, touched on the condition of many sufferers spines. a totally new topic to any of these discussion groups and you were the first to jump down my throat.. it was like yeah, as if, here you go tony making up crap again.Well sure enough there was a strong outcry from a few brave soles that did describe there spinal situation as pretty bad if not boardering on critical.I also felt strongly that by being a group that keeps pushing therapies that work, albeit slowly, often we are avoiding these other ugly facets of this group of diseases that possably lead you to have cmplex surgeries to keep you upright. I try and emphasise that we are facing many major issues, to learn how to get them taken seriously would have been a better discussion.. > I agree with you , LLMDs' priorities should be to identify, identify and identify the bacteria they are claiming to treat. If they concentrated enough of their efforts on just that, if they worked closely with enough microbiologists, they would not have to work with so many lawyers! As you say, shine pictures of glowing spiros, show the medical boards results of PCRs obtained from various tissue samples of infected patients and voilà! end of story. > > We all agree, we even agree with Tony, and if it weren't for Tony constantly telling us we don't (agree with him) and telling us we are idiots who read Medline instead of sticking cotton buds up our noses, our exchanges would not have that unpleasant belligerent tone most of the time. > > I personally can't stand the bullying and intimidating rants from Melbourne. Tony might thrive from the aggro but I certainly don't > > Nelly > [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV > > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb. > > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts. > > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola. > > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything? > > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once. > > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 So , you don't have a very one sided point of view that you've been allowed to express very freely here? And correct me if I'm wrong, but have I ever said anything about you as rude as you just said about me? Let's move on people. This is still about all of us being on the same side. And until crazy Uncle Joe or tipsy Aunt Flo commit a heinous crime, they're still part of my family. penny Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: You put the case very well Nelly , I don't post here any more .I have become increasingly uncomfortable in posting on this group ,I find him totally unacceptable and dangerously uninformed ..My daughter is a microbiologist I would have thought the questions to ask me would be how does a mainstream NHS lab view spiroes , what is the incidence ? Ditto pseudomonas, resistant staph etc; but no he questions my daughter character ,motives, not testing me on the QT ...Penny thinks he's cured , but its clear he's not .Penny's unswerving devotion is reminiscent of teenagers and pop stars, to the observer in an adult it's un-nerving ...High functioning Autistic ! ..I think there's a good chance he's a 14 yr old sent from hell ....Bye Bye Group ... -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 21 August 2006 15:59infections Subject: Re: [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Tony, >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. If anyone who knows me were to read this comment they'd piss themselves laughing!! You know NOTHING re how I deal with doctors or with anything else for that matter and I am not going to start justifying myself to you, but with your permission I will frwrd your mail to someone in Sydney who needs a bit of cheering up at the moment. You're giving me lessons in how to show aggro to doctors and how to let them know they are dickheads and not paying their bills if dissatisfied, and bringing in a husband/friend to witness every visit etc. all this will cheer her up no end. You might hear her laugh all the way from Melbourne. >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. You're not the enemy you're a pain in the arse, you are constantly breaking down doors that are wide open, you are constantly raving about what is OBVIOUS to most here, that's what I am sick and tired of reading from you. You are constantly raving as if everybody disagreed with you. In fact you behave like a high functioning autistic person, the Asperger-type. In fact I suspect this is why the kind people on this list are so tolerant of you, and I guess that's how I should also react to you but you see it's the damn balls in my pants that are making me nasty and agressive!! >Actually you should direct some of >this anger at people like rich at experimental that keep shoving >genetic defect in people's faces.. he needs your total aggro for >sharing crap and not focusing on the wave of people that got mowed >down in one hit by being at the wrong place. I see no reason at all to attack Rich on what he is trying to do. He is exploring certain aspects of things which might be upstream or downstream (or both) of the infectious stuff going on, and I am finding it interesting even if, personally, I choose to address primarily the bacterial stuff in the hope that the rest will take care of itself once I have managed to get rid of enough infection. Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV> > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.> > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.> > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.> > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything?> > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once.> > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Penny , I have the highest respect for you ,I know your very ill, despite that you fight your illness with a determination that's inspiring .You could be in fact fighting for your daughters future health ,that goes for all of us, I have two grandchildren , We are the vanguards, the doctors are sitting this one out. we have a tremendous responsibility. Tony's uninformed self promoting rhetoric is food for the sceptics , the people who just love to quote Tony type one sided amateur comments and quote them as proof that the internet should not be trusted ..and guess what, they would be right. Tony is a bigot , he is intolerant of any other opinion , I am not ,my views are up there to be challenged ,I tell you, all the comments [on my site] I have received from very informed sources have been positive . So sorry if I've offended you , but that's the real world , I just don't feel comfortable posting to what is increasingly becoming the Tony Show .. -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Penny HouleSent: 21 August 2006 19:39infections Subject: RE: [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV So , you don't have a very one sided point of view that you've been allowed to express very freely here? And correct me if I'm wrong, but have I ever said anything about you as rude as you just said about me? Let's move on people. This is still about all of us being on the same side. And until crazy Uncle Joe or tipsy Aunt Flo commit a heinous crime, they're still part of my family. penny Jaep <JaepLineone (DOT) net> wrote: You put the case very well Nelly , I don't post here any more .I have become increasingly uncomfortable in posting on this group ,I find him totally unacceptable and d angerously uninformed ..My daughter is a microbiologist I would have thought the questions to ask me would be how does a mainstream NHS lab view spiroes , what is the incidence ? Ditto pseudomonas, resistant staph etc; but no he questions my daughter character ,motives, not testing me on the QT ...Penny thinks he's cured , but its clear he's not .Penny's unswerving devotion is reminiscent of teenagers and pop stars, to the observer in an adult it's un-nerving ...High functioning Autistic ! ..I think there's a good chance he's a 14 yr old sent from hell ....Bye Bye Group ... -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 21 August 2006 15:59infections Subject: Re: [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV Tony, >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. If anyone who knows me were to read this comment they'd piss themselves laughing!! You know NOTHING re how I deal with doctors or with anything else for that matter and I am not going to start justifying myself to you, but with your permission I will frwrd your mail to someone in Sydney who needs a bit of cheering up at the moment. You're giving me lessons in how to show aggro to doctors and how to let them know they are dickheads and not paying their bills if dissatisfied, and bringing in a husband/friend to witness every visit etc. all this will cheer her up no end. You might hear her laugh all the way from Melbourne. >I'm sorry Nelly but if >you had balls you'd save them for your doctors appointments not rant >and rave at me like I'm the enemy. You're not the enemy you're a pain in the arse, you are constantly breaking down doors that are wide open, you are constantly raving about what is OBVIOUS to most here, that's what I am sick and tired of reading from you. You are constantly raving as if everybody disagreed with you. In fact you behave like a high functioning autistic person, the Asperger-type. In fact I suspect this is why the kind people on this list are so tolerant of you, and I guess that's how I should also react to you but you see it's the damn balls in my pants that are making me nasty and agressive!! >Actually you should direct some of >this anger at people like rich at experimental that keep shoving >genetic defect in people's faces.. he needs your total aggro for >sharing crap and not focusing on the wave of people that got mowed >down in one hit by being at the wrong place. I see no reason at all to attack Rich on what he is trying to do. He is exploring certain aspects of things which might be upstream or downstream (or both) of the infectious stuff going on, and I am finding it interesting even if, personally, I choose to address primarily the bacterial stuff in the hope that the rest will take care of itself once I have managed to get rid of enough infection. Nelly [infections] Re: INTERESTING TV> > > Further to what Kate said, this would almost certainly be relapsing > fever borreliosis anyway, not Bb.> > Why dont you look at Nanagara's paper Tony, where most Bb antigens were > hidden away inside phagocytes and fibroblasts.> > However, I agree exactly with the spirit of Tonys post. Wheres the > aggression? Why doesnt ILADS pick up the bowen assay and play some > football with that? There are protein methods like mass spec which can > determine whether the fluorescons in the bowen assay are genuine. You > send in a sample to a protein mass spec place. A grad student did so in > my lab. You could probably get a concentrated Bb sample by > immunocapture, which Hulinska did. Show Bb proteins by mass spec, and > that they are absent from bowen-negative samples, if in fact they are. > Not everything works smoothly or at all, but if it does, viola.> > It has to at least be tried, and then if necessary something else and > something else. Where are the fluoresence scopes when the docs face > hearings? Wheres, hey, this thing is glowing like hell, do you > seriously think this is nonspecific binding? Where are the labs > replicating the /Mattman/Hulinska controlled culture, the > Brorson MS detection, anything?> > Doing all this stuff would definitely cost alot, but whats the > alternative? Ideally, one big blow, which might have to be funded > privately, could draw further funding. A big blow would be dual > replication of the reports I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps > it would be easier to get into the big journals if 2 separate labs both > did the same thing at once.> > Maybe I'm just too naive about what the big journals are like.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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