Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Val, I'm one of the people who had a horrendous problem with Rifampin and I think those effects still linger in my body. And I know of a few more that couldn't take it. I've also read of others who had NO problems at all! But I wouldn't suggest that a person not try it if their llmd thinks it would help them. It might be just what they need. What I would suggest, though, is to do the research necessary to make sure you understand the possible dangers. And all drugs have " possible dangers " . Liver Function tests are necessary. The kidneys may be affected. Do a search on Google. Medline has full information of side-effects and cautions. On Lymenet there is a thread about Rifampin, with a lot of people claiming it was rough and others saying how great it was. Good luck. cave76 > From: valp74@... > Hey everyone Just wanted to know if anyone has been on Rifampin. Dr. B > prescribed it for me and I have heard so many different things about it taht I > am afraid to atake it. Any info would be much apprecitaed. -Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 > From: Jeannie W <jeanniew58@...> >> > Is that an antibioic? Heard of it, but wasn't sure. thanks! Jeannie Jeannie----- Yes it's an antibiotic. Below are some of my gleanings about Rifampin (found AFTER I experience problems) I just want to reiterate: A lot of people won't get any bad side effects. It's all individual. cave76 From Medline: Category * Antibacterial, antileprosy agent * Antibacterial, antimycobacterial Description Rifampin (rif-AM-pin) is used to treat certain bacterial infections. Rifampin is used with other medicines to treat tuberculosis (TB) /////////////////////////////////////////////// Rifampin is an antibiotic Rifampin is an antibiotic medicine that is often used to prevent meningitis (infection of the covering of the brain and spinal cord) ///////////////////////////////////// Side effects Chills, difficult breathing, dizziness, fever, headache, muscle and bone pain, rash, itching, sore throat, yellow eyes or skin, unusual bleeding or bruising, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, unusual tiredness or weakness, bloody or cloudy urine, stomach cramps, diarrhea, and sore mouth or tongue. Urine, feces, saliva, sputum, sweat or tears may become red-orange to red-brown in color. Soft contact lenses may become permanently discolored. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From http://www.hivdent.org/drugs/RIFAMPIN.htm Monitoring: Liver function tests, BUN and creatinine, CBC; TB symptoms, sputum, and CXR [my note: see CXR---- Chest X Ray monitoring! One of my lingering symptoms that I feel came with Rifampin was shortness of breath. I got a chest xray and it showed hyperinflated lungs and a flat diaphragm. I'm in the process of having lung tests and heart tests. Did Rifampin cause it?? Don't know., But it's a little suspicious that this came up during and after my 2 weeks of Rifampin.] ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5015a3.htm The above url is a little more scary----I'm not presenting this to scare; just to show that Rif. has to be monitored carefully. Which mine wasn't. The people in this case were also on another drug besides Rifampin, which may account for the serious outcome. After I had taken myself off Rifampin (my llmd didn't return phone calls, or emails:() ----- I saw him at my regular appt. and told him of my problems with Rifampin. He calmly said " well, maybe it gave you hepatitis " !!! HUH? So, just be aware of the problems. AND remember that a LOT of people have no problems at all with it. My disclaimer. (grin) ///////////////////////////////// Adverse Effects A. Hepatoxicity B. Nephritis C. Rash D. Thrombocytopenia E. Influenza-like Syndrome //////////////////////////////////////////// http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/001730.cfm Side effects: VERY SERIOUS Seek immediate medical attention if any of these symptoms occur: * body as a whole * chills * fever * muscle pain * bone pain * shivering * cloudy or bloody urine * decreased urine output and/or frequency * sore throat * unusual weakness or tiredness * swelling around the eyes or swelling of the whole face * respiratory * difficult breathing * eyes, ears, nose, and throat * yellow eyes * skin * itching * rash * redness * yellow skin * reddish orange colored skin, eyes, mouth * gastrointestinal * loss of appetite * nausea or vomiting * heart and blood vessels * unusual bruising or bleeding * nervous system * dizziness * headache MINOR These effects need no attention unless they become annoying: * body as a whole * orange, brown, or red discoloration of tears, urine, stool, sweat, saliva, and sputum * eyes, ears, nose, and throat * sore mouth and/or tongue * blurred vision * impaired hearing * gastrointestinal * diarrhea * stomach cramps ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Delayed Onset of Pseudomembranous Colitis After Rifampin Therapy RYLAND P. BYRD, JR., MD, THOMAS M. ROY, MD, MIGUEL A. OSSORIO, MD, and CHERYL L. FIELDS, MD, Mountain Home, Tenn ABSTRACT: Rifampin therapy is an infrequently reported cause of pseudomembranous colitis. A low index of suspicion may account for this lack of recognition. Awareness of this potentially hazardous complication of rifampin therapy is encouraged, especially since increasing numbers of patients infected with the human immunodeficiency virus, who may have diarrhea from other etiologies, require rifampin therapy. /////////////////////////////////////////// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 Thank yo for the info on the rifampin I am still researching it and trying to think about what to do. Hope you are feelign better-Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 Regarding Rifampin: My doctor has me on Rifampin plus Minocin and it is the first time in 4 years with Lyme, Ehrlichia, Fibromyalgia (my main symptom of lyme), Chronic Fatigue, Depression, Anxiety, etc., that I am feeling MAJOR improvements in all symptoms. After a miserable winter (probably the worst time for me so far... felt like it did in the beginning of treatment) .... I am calling Rifampin my Miracle Drug! I had been on Minocin in the past but without the Rifampin it was awful. I am still getting a herx every four weeks and the residual stuff, but overall I am like a new person. It is unbelievable. I have even started an exercise routine (some body sculpting and some cardio). I have not been able to do this in years! So try it! You can always stop if it does not agree with you. The only side effect I have had is a slight discoloration of the urine just soon after I take it. None of the other horrors they list. To me it is worth it. Now I am hoping my Doc can find another drug to go with it for the summer, as Minocin is sun sensitive and I love the beach. (I live at the Jersey Shore area). Does anyone know if there are any other antibiotics being used with Rifampin besides the tetracyclines? This would be very helpful to both my doc and myself. I tried checking Dr. B's guidelines as someone mentioned that he was using it but I didn't find any other class of drugs being used with it. Thanks so much.. and I hope that you have the same success as me with the Rifampin if you decide to try it. Angel Blessings, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 Lorraine---- That's great news about the Rifampin helping you! As I said, while I was telling of my awful results with it, there are many people it's helped. I'm glad you're one of them. Good work! Is your doctor having regular LFTs done while you're on Rifampin? cave76 > From: Cheers4U@... >> > Regarding Rifampin: > > My doctor has me on Rifampin plus Minocin and it is the first time in 4 years > with Lyme, Ehrlichia, Fibromyalgia (my main symptom of lyme), Chronic > Fatigue, Depression, Anxiety, etc., that I am feeling MAJOR improvements in > all symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 In a message dated 4/28/03 11:54:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dobies@... writes: > Lorraine---- That's great news about the Rifampin helping you! As I said, > while I was telling of my awful results with it, there are many people it's > helped. > > I'm glad you're one of them. Good work! > > Is your doctor having regular LFTs done while you're on Rifampin? > > Yes.. It is amazing isn't it? I was almost afraid to say anything but I am knocking on wood. It has been over 8 weeks now on the combo of Rifampin/Minocin. Absolutely, on the liver function tests. In fact, I suffer from mild anemia also (no doubt from the two disease states ... Lyme & Ehrlichiosis), so we have been checking my blood counts (CBC, chem profile, liver function, etc.) about every 3 weeks. The anemia is also improving ever so slightly. This could be one reason that I am feeling more energy also. It is strange with me that my white blood cells have never been affected (common with ehrlichiosis) but my red always have been since I have been sick. The doctor feels that the combination of the disease states as well as some of the medications are most likely causing the anemia. He would like me to see a hematologist but just don't want to and it is getting better slowly but surely. He said if it drops again I must go. So of course I won't let it! lol. Anyone else have anemia through this? By the way, I am not iron deficient or B-12 deficient, etc. We have checked all that on numerous occasions. It just seems to me that the diseases are attacking my red blood cells. (I have not had a positive Babesia titer in about 2 years either, which is one disease that does attack the red blood cells). Angel Blessings, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 thanks Bill.. I will check on the Biaxin too. I have plenty of that in the house from the kids, although it is one that I have never taken myself for whatever reason. I will ask all these questions tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 i think it also is given with macrolides (biaxin, etc) for cetain infections. but please don't take my word for it. please check with a DR. thanks bill > Lorraine---- That's great news about the Rifampin helping you! As I said, > while I was telling of my awful results with it, there are many people it's > helped. > > I'm glad you're one of them. Good work! > > Is your doctor having regular LFTs done while you're on Rifampin? > > cave76 > > > From: Cheers4U@A... > >> > > Regarding Rifampin: > > > > My doctor has me on Rifampin plus Minocin and it is the first time in 4 years > > with Lyme, Ehrlichia, Fibromyalgia (my main symptom of lyme), Chronic > > Fatigue, Depression, Anxiety, etc., that I am feeling MAJOR improvements in > > all symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Rifampin is a well known drug used to treat Tuberculosis. I’m not aware of it’s use for the problems you are having now. /Polymyositis rheumatic Rifampin I used to take Minocin, and my toe joints got much better. Two weeks ago,my knee got really swollen again, my doctor precribed me Rifampin. Is anyone taking this antibiotics? Thank you... from Taiwan Morley To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Some of the clinical uses of Rifampin are (from a search): Tuberculosis Prophylaxis Meningitis Staph Infection, (i.e. endocarditis, MRSA, colonization) Brucellosis Rickettsia Thanks for raising the question. We all can learn from this. bg > Rifampin is a well known drug used to treat Tuberculosis. I'm not aware of > it's use for the problems you are having now. > > /Polymyositis > > rheumatic Rifampin > > I used to take Minocin, and my toe joints got much better. > Two weeks ago,my knee got really swollen again, my doctor precribed > me Rifampin. Is anyone taking this antibiotics? > > Thank you... > from Taiwan > > > > Morley > > > > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hey eric... Doxy keeps on killing bugs, but rifampin can become useless quick, so by doing both your avoiding the useless quick aspect of rifampin ... Do you think thjey hand this drug out like lollies? IT " S FREAKIN USELESS and they don't even like using it for menigococcal carriage which is the worst bacteria in the world... AKA oprah and people with half there legs and arms missing due to destructive bacteria. > > > > Useless drug IMO. Shoemaker didn't win too many fans with his > choice > > of rifampin and bactrim. I actually found rifampin to build > > resistance extremely quickly to your sinus bugs. > > tony > > > Rif + doxy in one of the 2 most impressive trials of abx for > idiopathic disease that I know of: > > > J Rheumatol. 2004 Oct;31(10):1973-80. Links > Doxycycline versus doxycycline and rifampin in undifferentiated > spondyloarthropathy, with special reference to chlamydia-induced > arthritis. A prospective, randomized 9-month comparison. JD, > Valeriano J, Vasey FB. > Division of Rheumatology, University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida > 33612, USA. jocarter@... > > OBJECTIVE: Chlamydia is a known trigger of reactive arthritis (ReA). > It may also be common cause of undifferentiated spondyloarthropathy > (uSpA). Persistent, metabolically active, Chlamydiae have been > observed in the synovial tissue of these patients years after their > initial exposure. Trials with lymecycline and rifampin have shown > benefit in early/acute Chlamydia-induced arthritis. In vitro data > suggest that persistent Chlamydia become resistant to chronic > monotherapy of tetracyclines or rifampin, whereas no such resistance > is noted when rifampin is added to antimicrobials that are active > against Chlamydia. Rifampin and doxycycline also show synergistic > effect against Chlamydia. In addition, rifampin inhibits chlamydial > production of heat shock proteins (HSP). HSP60 plays a key role in > the chronic persistent state of Chlamydia. We conducted a > prospective, randomized 9-month trial to evaluate the efficacy of > doxycycline versus a combination of doxycycline and rifampin in the > treatment of uSpA. METHODS: The study enrolled 30 patients with > chronic inflammatory arthritis (average disease duration 10 yrs) who > fulfilled the European Spondylarthropathy Study Group criteria, with > no evidence of inflammatory bowel disease, psoriasis, ankylosing > spondylitis, or preceding dysentery. Patients received doxycycline > 100 mg po twice daily or a combination of doxycycline 100 mg po twice > daily and rifampin 600 mg po daily. They received a 4-question self- > questionnaire and a blinded joint examination at each visit. The > questions include a visual analog scale (VAS) for their current > amount of back pain, duration of morning stiffness, back pain at > night, and peripheral joint pain. The blinded joint examination > consisted of a swollen joint count (SJC) and a tender joint count > (TJC). These 6 variables were assessed at baseline and at 1, 3, 6, > and 9 months. Responders were defined as those who improved > or = > 20% in at least 4 of the 6 variables at 9 months of therapy. RESULTS: > Comparing the doxycycline + rifampin arm (D/R) versus the doxycycline > arm (D) at 9 months of therapy, all 6 variables improved more in D/R > versus D, 4 of which were statistically significant. The mean VAS > (scale of 100) decreased 24.4 points in D/R in contrast to 3 points > in D (p < 0.03). Duration of morning stiffness decreased by 1.2 h in > D/R, with a slight increase of 0.1 h in D (p < 0.003). The back pain > at night and peripheral joint pain both improved in D/R group versus > D (not statistically significant). Finally, the SJC and TJC also > improved in D/R (-2.1 and -2.5) versus D (-0.4 and -0.6; p = 0.02, p > = 0.03, respectively). Eleven of 15 patients in the D/R arm were > responders, whereas only 2 of 15 D group patients were considered > responders (p < 0.003). CONCLUSION: The combination of doxycycline > and rifampin for 9 months seemed to be effective in treatment of > chronic uSpA. This is the first study to demonstrate therapeutic > benefit with antimicrobials to a chronic inflammatory arthritis > possibly secondary to persistent Chlamydia. > > PMID: 15468362 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I think I'll pursue this. I might actually be able to get this diagnosis. I saw that article before, but I didn't look up undifferentiated spondyloathropathy. Now that I've looked it up, I think this might possibly be a ticket to me to some recognition of illness by MDs.- KateOn Aug 19, 2006, at 1:41 PM, wrote:Rif + doxy in one of the 2 most impressive trials of abx for idiopathic disease that I know of:J Rheumatol. 2004 Oct;31(10):1973-80. Links Doxycycline versus doxycycline and rifampin in undifferentiated spondyloarthropathy, with special reference to chlamydia-induced arthritis. A prospective, randomized 9-month comparison. JD, Valeriano J, Vasey FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I had a good response to the cyclines at first, but now am making no progress. Perhaps Rifampin in combo can help some of us.- KateOn Aug 19, 2006, at 2:52 PM, dumbaussie2000 wrote:ey eric... Doxy keeps on killing bugs, but rifampin can become useless quick, so by doing both your avoiding the useless quick aspect of rifampin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 > Hey eric... Doxy keeps on killing bugs, but rifampin can become > useless quick, so by doing both your avoiding the useless quick > aspect of rifampin ... If the frequency of genomic rif resistance is 10e-7, then 99.9999% of the cells are genomically sensitive. During any rapid replacement of sensitive cells with resistant ones, there should be a rapid temporary decimation of the population and therefore of symptoms, followed by recurrence of symptoms - something few sickies report. Thats why I focus on physiologic resistance. The month I started running again I was taking the exact same drugs I had been on every day for the previous 4 months. It took months to gradually exert decimation against the physiologic resistance. No high level genomic resistance was involved. But I agree, rif probably should not be used alone. As I'm sure you agree, it would be incomprehensible to use only one drug anyway. I absorbed that attitude from you early on. > IT " S FREAKIN USELESS and they don't even like using it for > menigococcal carriage which is the worst bacteria in the world... AKA > oprah and people with half there legs and arms missing due to > destructive bacteria. OK, but actually its used for osteomyelitis, or at least has been experimented with quite a bit. Google it. I dont know about meningococci or necrotizing soft-tissue staph, but anyway, so what. In addition to what I already cited, theres also these papers about another rifamycin abx which we studied almost 2 years ago at Mr Schas suggestion: Advantages of treatment with Reprimun in sarcoidosis. Med Interne. 1989 Jul-Sep;27(3):225-8. PMID: 2617077 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] [The advantages of Reprimum therapy in pulmonary sarcoidosis and other granulomatous diseases] Rev Ig Bacteriol Virusol Parazitol Epidemiol Pneumoftiziol Pneumoftiziol. 1989 Jul-Sep;38(3):259-64. Romanian. PMID: 2559463 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] What did Shoemaker actually do step by step? How long did he treat people and what were the actual observations? Last time I checked he was postulating that borreliosis was easily eradicable but left a greasy biotoxin residuum. For all I know from what youre saying, he might have administered TMP + RIF for like 2 weeks? I'm not exactly going to spew my soda if/when I hear that a short regime didnt effect chronic disease X. The recoveries reported in Borody's crohns trial were mostly on the rapid-ish side (something like 6 weeks if I recall), but one of Strattons CFS patients reports she was still climbing (and finally reaching high levels) in her 4th year of heavy combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Your reading too much medical literature that unfortunately alway's sounds so skewed to what I read when people write on there own experiences. I phoned around a lot for many years just to share people's drug reactions. I basically felt that you needed to keep hearing it from the horses mouth as to what the actual experience was....so you can form a strategy of a good variety of drugs that are alway's favourably usefull in these conditions...Shoiemaker gave many 1 month of rifampin and bactrim which I obserfved to become totally resistant, the bugs grew over the top of the drug if not also stimulated by the drugs.I was actually fortunate to have a sinmus sample from a shoemaker patient and had to get myself rifampin and bactrim to observe how useless this person describing her therapy to be..sure enough I understood it quickly how pointless this exercise was. I wouldn't think anyone practising osteomyeleitis treatment uses this drug. We have gotten a good example of what the therapies that succeed with are and they involve penicillins , cephalaspoi=rins, and the tough aminoglycoptides, with of coyurse the blood thinning agents. > > > > Hey eric... Doxy keeps on killing bugs, but rifampin can become > > useless quick, so by doing both your avoiding the useless quick > > aspect of rifampin ... > > If the frequency of genomic rif resistance is 10e-7, then 99.9999% of > the cells are genomically sensitive. During any rapid replacement of > sensitive cells with resistant ones, there should be a rapid > temporary decimation of the population and therefore of symptoms, > followed by recurrence of symptoms - something few sickies report. > Thats why I focus on physiologic resistance. > > The month I started running again I was taking the exact same drugs I > had been on every day for the previous 4 months. It took months to > gradually exert decimation against the physiologic resistance. No > high level genomic resistance was involved. > > But I agree, rif probably should not be used alone. As I'm sure you > agree, it would be incomprehensible to use only one drug anyway. I > absorbed that attitude from you early on. > > > > IT " S FREAKIN USELESS and they don't even like using it for > > menigococcal carriage which is the worst bacteria in the world... > AKA > > oprah and people with half there legs and arms missing due to > > destructive bacteria. > > OK, but actually its used for osteomyelitis, or at least has been > experimented with quite a bit. Google it. I dont know about > meningococci or necrotizing soft-tissue staph, but anyway, so what. > > In addition to what I already cited, theres also these papers about > another rifamycin abx which we studied almost 2 years ago at Mr Schas > suggestion: > > Advantages of treatment with Reprimun in sarcoidosis. > Med Interne. 1989 Jul-Sep;27(3):225-8. > PMID: 2617077 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > [The advantages of Reprimum therapy in pulmonary sarcoidosis and > other granulomatous diseases] > Rev Ig Bacteriol Virusol Parazitol Epidemiol Pneumoftiziol > Pneumoftiziol. 1989 Jul-Sep;38(3):259-64. Romanian. > PMID: 2559463 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > What did Shoemaker actually do step by step? How long did he treat > people and what were the actual observations? Last time I checked he > was postulating that borreliosis was easily eradicable but left a > greasy biotoxin residuum. For all I know from what youre saying, he > might have administered TMP + RIF for like 2 weeks? I'm not exactly > going to spew my soda if/when I hear that a short regime didnt effect > chronic disease X. The recoveries reported in Borody's crohns trial > were mostly on the rapid-ish side (something like 6 weeks if I > recall), but one of Strattons CFS patients reports she was still > climbing (and finally reaching high levels) in her 4th year of heavy > combos. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 > > Your reading too much medical literature that unfortunately alway's > sounds so skewed to what I read when people write on there own > experiences. Well, I agree some writers will just use " remission " and not define what they mean in the abstract or even in the text. However, in this case those MDs gave people treatment under defined conditions and literally described exactly what improvements they observed. So it would take alot of people with the same dx reporting failure on the same protocol for me to start thinking that it might be just a bunch of BS. I agree that for Schardts fluconazole protocol, for instance, it seemed like there were all these positive reports coming secondhand (including in Schardts article) and none firsthand that I could read here on the internet. (I heard there was someone doing hot on a german forum, but thats secondhand to me, a humble speaker of english only.) I'm not saying Schardt is BS, I'm just saying I have no idea what to think and therefore, pragmatically, its definitely not on the top of my list of protocols. > Shoiemaker gave > many 1 month of rifampin and bactrim Well there you go. From that I conclude nothing. > which I obserfved to become > totally resistant, the bugs grew over the top of the drug if not also > stimulated by the drugs. >I was actually fortunate to have a sinmus > sample from a shoemaker patient and had to get myself rifampin and > bactrim to observe how useless this person describing her therapy to > be..sure enough I understood it quickly how pointless this exercise > was. Did you use nonresistant organisms from pure culture as positive controls? If so, you proved that you or this persons nasal staph either had or acquired high level genomic resistance. If they acquired the resistance *during* actual treatment with these drugs (ie, didnt already have the resistant bugs before treatment), then this *could* still potentially be meaningless even assuming that your disease *is* caused by S aureus that radiated from your nose. Because: *if* the staph causing the systemic disease are now intracellular, they might well have not acquired the resistance you observed in a nasal sample, because they might not have rapidly died during the treatment. On the other hand, if the nasal staph they had was already rif- resistant *before* treatment, *that* would be mean using rif would probably be fruitless, *if* you somehow provisionally conclude that that same strain of staph radiated from the nose to cause their disease. How you would provisionally conclude that I dont know. Youd need some kind of systemic sample, and contamination from the skin might be an issue. Even if staph can cause CFS, that doesnt mean staph cant also be a contaminant from skin in a blood sample or something from a CFS patient. The labs must have some reason why they often throw out staph - a reason such as that they can get it from a high percentage of helathy blood samples even if they use normal skin sterilization at the phlebotomy sites. Or, if they dont have a reason with data behind it (data on the staph background in healthy normals), then theyre idiots. Either one could certainly be the case. > I wouldn't think anyone practising osteomyeleitis treatment uses > this drug. We have gotten a good example of what the therapies that > succeed with are and they involve penicillins , cephalaspoi=rins, > and the tough aminoglycoptides, with of coyurse the blood thinning > agents. I dont know nearly enough about osteomyelitis to say whether I'd agree or disagree with what you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I have plenty of rifampin, if you like I'll send you some.if you can handle orange pea and tears.- STREPTOMYACIN is the drug I would be over the moon to have ..the introduction of easy adminitered rifampin has possably taken the lives of millions of TB sufferers cause I think it's a shit drug.. Streptomyacin on the other hand is the drug that sits alongside penicillin as one of last centuries wonder drugs. The whole world of medicine was working on the creation of penicillins and streptomyacins. Today we have shady shit goiing on with a company coming out with one quinolone and another coming out with other quinolones.All Questionable.. I loved cipro but the bugs that come back with a vengeance that were cipro resistant just about killed me, so now I don't trust these types of drugs on there own.. tony -- In infections , " " <usenethod@...> wrote: > > > > > > Your reading too much medical literature that unfortunately alway's > > sounds so skewed to what I read when people write on there own > > experiences. > > Well, I agree some writers will just use " remission " and not define > what they mean in the abstract or even in the text. > > However, in this case those MDs gave people treatment under defined > conditions and literally described exactly what improvements they > observed. So it would take alot of people with the same dx reporting > failure on the same protocol for me to start thinking that it might > be just a bunch of BS. > > I agree that for Schardts fluconazole protocol, for instance, it > seemed like there were all these positive reports coming secondhand > (including in Schardts article) and none firsthand that I could read > here on the internet. (I heard there was someone doing hot on a > german forum, but thats secondhand to me, a humble speaker of english > only.) I'm not saying Schardt is BS, I'm just saying I have no idea > what to think and therefore, pragmatically, its definitely not on the > top of my list of protocols. > > > > Shoiemaker gave > > many 1 month of rifampin and bactrim > > Well there you go. From that I conclude nothing. > > > > which I obserfved to become > > totally resistant, the bugs grew over the top of the drug if not > also > > stimulated by the drugs. > >I was actually fortunate to have a sinmus > > sample from a shoemaker patient and had to get myself rifampin and > > bactrim to observe how useless this person describing her therapy > to > > be..sure enough I understood it quickly how pointless this exercise > > was. > > Did you use nonresistant organisms from pure culture as positive > controls? If so, you proved that you or this persons nasal staph > either had or acquired high level genomic resistance. > > If they acquired the resistance *during* actual treatment with these > drugs (ie, didnt already have the resistant bugs before treatment), > then this *could* still potentially be meaningless even assuming that > your disease *is* caused by S aureus that radiated from your nose. > Because: *if* the staph causing the systemic disease are now > intracellular, they might well have not acquired the resistance you > observed in a nasal sample, because they might not have rapidly died > during the treatment. > > On the other hand, if the nasal staph they had was already rif- > resistant *before* treatment, *that* would be mean using rif would > probably be fruitless, *if* you somehow provisionally conclude that > that same strain of staph radiated from the nose to cause their > disease. How you would provisionally conclude that I dont know. Youd > need some kind of systemic sample, and contamination from the skin > might be an issue. Even if staph can cause CFS, that doesnt mean > staph cant also be a contaminant from skin in a blood sample or > something from a CFS patient. The labs must have some reason why they > often throw out staph - a reason such as that they can get it from a > high percentage of helathy blood samples even if they use normal skin > sterilization at the phlebotomy sites. Or, if they dont have a reason > with data behind it (data on the staph background in healthy > normals), then theyre idiots. Either one could certainly be the case. > > > > I wouldn't think anyone practising osteomyeleitis treatment > uses > > this drug. We have gotten a good example of what the therapies that > > succeed with are and they involve penicillins , cephalaspoi=rins, > > and the tough aminoglycoptides, with of coyurse the blood thinning > > agents. > > I dont know nearly enough about osteomyelitis to say whether I'd > agree or disagree with what you say. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Pat you KNEW I had the articles!!! wink 1.re acute renal failure in intermittent Rif therapy http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF & ArtikelNr=18019\ 6 & Ausgabe=241748 & ProduktNr=223854 & filename=180196.pdf ............... 2.the pamphlet that comes with the drug states:higher risk of negative side effects with intermittent therapy and if dosing is missed and resumed. ............ 3.halfway down page 2 " the potential for serious hypersensitivity reactions, especially severe throbocytopenia, when Rifampin is given intermittently,the regimen of twice weekly administered....appears unnecessarily dangerous " http://www.chestjournal.org/content/77/3/453.2.full.pdf ............... 4. http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.mi.26.100172.000505?\ journalCode=micro states toxicity when given on intermittent basis includes renal and other highly adverse outcomes. .............. 5. http://www.springerlink.com/content/l7122j8787134433/ severe repeated immuno reactions to intermittent rifampin therapy .............. no one tests to see how long you can go between doses before its called " intermittent " so its prudent to try your best to have continuous admin and continuous blood levels as it is, once per day pushes it-- a relatively short half life of 3-5 hrs means twice a day better insures constant blood levels ( FYI it takes 2-4 half lives to eliminate a drug totally, usually they say " 3 " , so by 9 hrs its just about gone for Rif) there can be a steady state/level once a few days of taking something so the daily peaks and troughs arent as bad Im unsure of the status of this for Rif--and youd have to have blood taken after being on it for 3 days and then taken 2 hrs after dosing ( peak) and again 1 hr BEFORE next dosing ( trough) I myslef?take Rif ?once a day and hope for the best----due to a.m. nausea and other drug/supps timing I only take rifampin late afternoon and mino only evenings--single higher dose dont panic--just be careful and IF you see sx or reactions recall why--and maybe take a few extra blood tests for kidney and liver function ?? Re: [ ] 10 year old herx headache Finette, ( do NOT do for one risky drug--Rifampin--starting and stopping this one drug for some reason increases side effects a LOT) I didn't know this about Rifampin and my son is on it for M. Fermentans and at times we've missed a dose or thought it might be good to miss for a couple of days like the others. Do you have more info on this? Thanks, Patty ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 2/10/2009 7:20 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks for the info Finette and I will try to be consistent. He takes it twice a day and generally we have done it daily but a couple of times we didn't fill the prescription in time, and a couple of times when his symptoms flared I thought skipping a day or two might be a good thing (I won't do that anymore -- maybe I'll back off on the other meds if needed for a couple of days but keep the Rifampin consistent). I've also been aiming at getting full blood workups about every 1 1/2 months to monitor. The drug seems to be helping but I am scared of the possible side effects. Thanks, Patty PS I hope you're feeling better than you had been. I'm seeing you post more again so I'm assuming you're in better shape than you were. Take care... Re: [ ] 10 year old herx headache Finette, ( do NOT do for one risky drug--Rifampin--starting and stopping this one drug for some reason increases side effects a LOT) I didn't know this about Rifampin and my son is on it for M. Fermentans and at times we've missed a dose or thought it might be good to miss for a couple of days like the others. Do you have more info on this? Thanks, Patty ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 2/10/2009 7:20 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 youre more than welcome Patty unfortunately I grab the PC when I can but my sx are still horrendous and even sitting over a few minutes at the screen is a battle--but I refuse to give in--and " helping " any way I can makes it seem as if the days are less wasted--so I get to the PC as often as I can even for little snips of time done more often ( this also forces exercise by walking to the next room LOL) I still have vertigo and recently severe headaches--brain pressure as well as hormonal type combined!! the brain pressure on my pituitary is playing with the usual age related menopausal swings and so the cycles and the accompanying headaches and junk are not cooperating one bit I*m also battling the Rifampin/mino I started 3 weeks ago--needed for bad Bart relapse--and either the Bart or the Rif is causing cardiac worsening too--tachy and EKG crap--theyre threatening to d/c my meds but Im hagning on with the hopes of beating the Bart into remission again...Im gunning for it before it kills me!! ( thats why Im up on the Rif info) btw also watch Tylenol and other liver toxic drugs while doing Rif--if you think its ok maybe add some milk thistle ( Thislyn brand) to the mix to protect the liver?? IF his LFTs stay ok every 4-6 wks bloods are ok but if they start to edge up, return to every 3-4 weeks tops--at first they had me do every 2 weeks!! but we all know how careful they are with me!! If theyre helping just keep telling yourself that NOT doing them would be worse long and short term!! Youre informed and being careful so dont be too afraid of what may help him!! thanks for the thoughts and wishes!! take care Finette Re: [ ] rifampin Thanks for the info Finette and I will try to be consistent. He takes it twice a day and generally we have done it daily but a couple of times we didn't fill the prescription in time, and a couple of times when his symptoms flared I thought skipping a day or two might be a good thing (I won't do that anymore -- maybe I'll back off on the other meds if needed for a couple of days but keep the Rifampin consistent). I've also been aiming at getting full blood workups about every 1 1/2 months to monitor. The drug seems to be helping but I am scared of the possible side effects. Thanks, Patty PS I hope you're feeling better than you had been. I'm seeing you post more again so I'm assuming you're in better shape than you were. Take care... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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