Re: Re: A bit out of left field

[Guest guest]

Dear Barb

The answer is dead simple. Crosing professional boundaries is a no-no. Using a psychiatric medication for a non-psychiatric problem (whether we enter the debate of infection versus autoimmune is irrelevant). Professional isolation (via the peer review process or not) is a major problem.

Regards

Windsor

[infections] Re: A bit out of left field

I am always interested in anything (besides steroids) to dampenthe inflammation of Uveitis.Interesting. If it's been known since 1992 I wonder why it was never suggested to me to try it during the years of 1995 thru 2002 as I was refusing steroids on a regular basis.If I still had the same eye Doc- I'd ask him.Barb>> Curr Eye Res (1992) 11: 843-8. > > The effect of chlorpromazine on endotoxin-induced uveitis in the rat. > > L Kasner, CC Chan, E Cordella-Miele, I Gery> Laboratory of Immunology, National Eye Institute, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892. > Chlorpromazine (CPZ) has been used extensively in the treatment of psychiatric disorders, and has recently been shown to possess systemic anti-inflammatory properties as well. To investigate the potential effects of CPZ on ocular inflammation, we evaluated its action on endotoxin-induced uveitis (EIU) in rats. At three different dosage levels, CPZ produced highly significant reductions in the mean aqueous aspirate inflammatory cell counts and histological inflammatory scores as compared to controls treated with vehicle only. Analysis of aqueous fluid demonstrated a similar decrease in protein concentration and phospholipase A2 (PLA-2) activity in the treated animals. The ability of CPZ to inhibit the development of EIU may be related to its properties as a calcium channel blocker and inhibitor of the enzyme phospholipase A2.> > [Pubmed Record - new window] > > Browse via Keywords: Chlorpromazine, CPZ, endotoxin-induced, uveitis, , EIU, psychiatric, inflammatori, aqueous, anti-inflammatori, disorders, ocular, possess, extensively, inflammatory, dosage, phospholipase, highli, potential, recently, treatment, evaluated, aspirate, phospholipas a2, scores, shown, A2, vehicle, reductions, histological, counts, treatment, PLA-2, fluid, rats, significant, blocker, decrease, channels, concentration, animals, calcium, Analysis, similar, ability, demonstrated, compared, inhibitor, inhibit, enzyme, cell, protein,>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I'd consider that pretty "significant". penny <usenethod@...> wrote: <rwindsor@...> wrote:>> Dear Barb> The answer is dead simple. Crosing professional boundaries is a no-no. Using a psychiatric medication for a non-psychiatric problem (whether we enter the debate of infection versus autoimmune is irrelevant). Professional isolation (via the peer review process or not) is a major problem.> Regards>

WindsorI dono - I think the primary factor is that most of those drugs have a funky rap sheet. Chlorpromazine and some others rather commonly cause tardive dyskinesia, a movement problem. I seem to recall that it doesnt always go away when the drug is stopped. How rare/common that is I dono. Wikipedia confirms this, not that they are always right about things or give the right impression:"There is a significant risk of the serious condition tardive dyskinesia developing as a side effect of typical antipsychotics. The risk of developing tardive dyskinesia after chronic typical antipsychotic usage varies on several factors, such as age and gender. The commonly reported incidence of TD among younger patients is about 5% per year. Among older patients incidence rates as high than 20% per year have been reported. The average prevalence is approximately 30% [1]. There are no treatments that have consistently

been shown to be effective for the treatment of tardive dyskinesias, however branched chain amino acids, melatonin, and vitamin E have been suggested as possible treatments. The atypical antipsychotic clozapine has also been suggested as an alternative antipsychotic for patients experiencing tardive dyskinesia. Tardive dyskinesia may reverse upon discontinuation of the offending agent or it may be irreversible."

[Guest guest]

Dear

You have piqued my interest . Back in the bad old days (Early 70's) when Iwas still actively suffering with what I now know was Lyme, I was prescribed this. It was the only thing that offered some relief though I was prescribed it at far too high a dose rate . I would be very interested in any refs you may have pertaining to its antimicrobial qualities and especially ,its effect in relation to macrophages.

Regards

Windsor

(in Australia)

[infections] Re: A bit out of left field

Thanks... I am actually interested in this class of antipsychotics. They are also antimicrobial... very weakly so, but on the other hand they are very much concentrated in macrophages.>> Curr Eye Res (1992) 11: 843-8. > > The effect of chlorpromazine on endotoxin-induced uveitis in the rat.

[Guest guest]

Dear

There is another factor . PWC's often have exquisite reactions to medications. Beneficial doses are ofter orders of magnitude smaller than the maxima prescribed by Psychiatrists.

As is now becoming apparent, a great many people with organic disease were caught in the psychiatric diagnostic web, including, in my suspicions, a great many PWC's who have been diagnosed with Somatiform disorders, ( I have personal acquaintance with some). If this is borne out, then maybe the explanation for tardive dyskinesia lies in the reality of the condition of the recipients of the drugs concerned, PWC's are demonstrably neurologically impaired( See Goldstein) and would exhibit such adverse reactions at a higher frequency than non-neurologcally impaired peers.

Despite this red herring, the problems of tardive dyskinesia can be laid squarely at the feet of treating physicians who have failed to withdraw the offending drug at the first sign of adverse reactions. In current diagnostic and treatment milleurs, there is a great awareness of the potential of ignoring adverse side effects.

I feel there is a strong possibility of throwing out both baby and bathwater when a stereotype image is allowed to obscure the pharmacology underlying drug action, this ,again from personal experience.As for wikipedia, see the comments about Simon Weselly.What a bunfight.

Regards

Windsor

[infections] Re: A bit out of left field

<rwindsor@...> wrote:>> Dear Barb> The answer is dead simple. Crosing professional boundaries is a no-no. Using a psychiatric medication for a non-psychiatric problem (whether we enter the debate of infection versus autoimmune is irrelevant). Professional isolation (via the peer review process or not) is a major problem.> Regards> WindsorI dono - I think the primary factor is that most of those drugs have a funky rap sheet. Chlorpromazine and some others rather commonly cause tardive dyskinesia, a movement problem. I seem to recall that it doesnt always go away when the drug is stopped. How rare/common that is I dono. Wikipedia confirms this, not that they are always right about things or give the right impression:"There is a significant risk of the serious condition tardive dyskinesia developing as a side effect of typical antipsychotics. The risk of developing tardive dyskinesia after chronic typical antipsychotic usage varies on several factors, such as age and gender. The commonly reported incidence of TD among younger patients is about 5% per year. Among older patients incidence rates as high than 20% per year have been reported. The average prevalence is approximately 30% [1]. There are no treatments that have consistently been shown to be effective for the treatment of tardive dyskinesias, however branched chain amino acids, melatonin, and vitamin E have been suggested as possible treatments. The atypical antipsychotic clozapine has also been suggested as an alternative antipsychotic for patients experiencing tardive dyskinesia. Tardive dyskinesia may reverse upon discontinuation of the offending agent or it may be irreversible."