Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 This is what I'm thinking is going on with the SYndrome X population in horses- just don't know how to correct it with them. Reading some interesting stuff of how beet-pulp affects their digestion and fermentation process- and the flora.. Humans don't eat beet-pulp though- but we do eat beets.. Barb wrote in part: So as per my site .. altered conditions in the gut allowing normally reined in pathogens to escape causing a duel deep seated infections .. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Barb and , One note on the gut flora: a good friend did her PhD research on this issue. As a result, there is a very effective commercial probiotic available in Republic of Georgia. Her research showed that non-pathogenic E.coli produces a fermentation that kills off pathogenic " competitors " in the gut. This destruction of competitors does not always work, it depends on how resistant the pathogens are. In treating intestinal infections, it is sometimes necessary to eliminate the pathogenic bacteria first - using appropriate medications - then restore the normal flora using probiotics. In addition to the bacteria in probiotics most commonly found in health food stores, this probiotic contains non-pathogenic strains of Enterococcus and E.coli - both are necessary for digestion. This probiotic is often used to restore the normal intestinal flora in our patients. > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 14/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 - Chris Very true and well put.. Most of our samples yield low levels of beneficial Ecoli...then the beneficial bacteroides are way out of sync and there's a mess down there with all the stuff migrating from the sinus,esophagus region-slime producing pseudonomas and staph epi's... -- In infections , " publicspirit " <publicspirit@...> wrote: > > Barb and , > > One note on the gut flora: a good friend did her PhD research on this > issue. As a result, there is a very effective commercial probiotic > available in Republic of Georgia. Her research showed that > non-pathogenic E.coli produces a fermentation that kills off > pathogenic " competitors " in the gut. This destruction of competitors > does not always work, it depends on how resistant the pathogens are. > > In treating intestinal infections, it is sometimes necessary to > eliminate the pathogenic bacteria first - using appropriate > medications - then restore the normal flora using probiotics. In > addition to the bacteria in probiotics most commonly found in health > food stores, this probiotic contains non-pathogenic strains of > Enterococcus and E.coli - both are necessary for digestion. This > probiotic is often used to restore the normal intestinal flora in our > patients. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: > 14/07/2006 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 -----Original Message-----From: Jaep [mailto:Jaep@...]Sent: 19 July 2006 13:53infections Subject: RE: [infections] Re: The Gut if you read my site, You will see that I believe replacing poor quality gut flora with so callelled normal flora is priority requirement in any therapy .How to achieve this is the question .It's a fact that proprietary probiotics nether multiply or even stay in the gut .gut flora is not permanently restored via probiotics , despite the hype , They present as an antigen and subsequently the immune system will mobilise ageist them ... They are very much a double edged therapy ,with a balance to be struck between the undoubted benefits if ingesting friendly bacteria and the flip side being , committing Immune resources to combat alien ,none self microbes . Can conditions in the gut be improved within the time scale that the microbes are effective ..the answer must be no , in most cases anyway . I have not plucked this view from the air I have the references ..read my site "normal Flora" and the "treatment" section . Click the bold type for links Vendors of probiotics make a selling point of the transient effect of probiotics ,[not to mention a Mickey Mouse explanation for the reasons of why the transient effect] This link has a nice graph illustrating the point .. http://www.customprobiotics.com/about_probiotics_a.htm http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of publicspiritSent: 19 July 2006 00:28infections Subject: [infections] Re: The Gut Barb and ,One note on the gut flora: a good friend did her PhD research on thisissue. As a result, there is a very effective commercial probioticavailable in Republic of Georgia. Her research showed thatnon-pathogenic E.coli produces a fermentation that kills offpathogenic "competitors" in the gut. This destruction of competitorsdoes not always work, it depends on how resistant the pathogens are. In treating intestinal infections, it is sometimes necessary toeliminate the pathogenic bacteria first - using appropriatemedications - then restore the normal flora using probiotics. Inaddition to the bacteria in probiotics most commonly found in healthfood stores, this probiotic contains non-pathogenic strains ofEnterococcus and E.coli - both are necessary for digestion. Thisprobiotic is often used to restore the normal intestinal flora in ourpatients.> >> > > > > --> No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date:14/07/2006> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 I beleive this is the way ACTIVIA (Dannon's probiotic yogurt) works- which is a designer bacteria advertised to alleviate bloat and constipation by moving the bowels. It's a 'patented' gut bacteria - which I think bascially gets the bowels moving, becuase the bodies moving the foreign bacteria out of the system. Barb Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: if you read my site, You will see that I believe replacing poor quality gut flora with so callelled normal flora is priority requirement in any therapy .How to achieve this is the question .It's a fact that proprietary probiotics nether multiply or even stay in the gut .gut flora is not permanently restored via probiotics , despite the hype , They present as an antigen and subsequently the immune system will mobilise ageist them ... They are very much a double edged therapy ,with a balance to be struck between the undoubted benefits if ingesting friendly bacter ia and the flip side being , committing Immune resources to combat alien ,none self microbes . Can conditions in the gut be improved within the time scale that the microbes are effective ..the answer must be no , in most cases anyway . I have not plucked this view from the air I have the references ..read my site " normal Flora " and the " treatment " section . Click the bold type for links Vendors of probiotics make a selling point of the transient effect of probiotics ,[not to mention a Mickey Mouse explanation for the reasons of w hy the transient effect] This link has a nice graph illustrating the point .. http://www.customprobiotics.com/about_probiotics_a.htm http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 _ The gut is the problem at the heart of these diseases-BUT THE ACTUAL PROBLEMATIC BACTERIA ARE BEING IGNORED and all we hear is add this add that and everything will be fine- NOW DARNIT I have never, ever read a forum candida or otherwise where there has been a full success story, so I have put this on my back burner thinking simply that once the pathogens and slime producers are taken care of the rest will fix itself, which is just about on the money IN MY READINGS AND..IMO.. tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 19/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 Hi , the ultimate goal is not to destroy the normal flora when treating intestinal infections. This is why phages are such an excellent choice for getting rid of pathogenic bacteria in the gut. Phages will only target the " bad guys " ; it won't bother the good ones. In cases where patients have lost their intestinal flora - and we just treated a patient who had zero normal flora: 100% pathogenic bacteria in the intestinal tract, and this included pathogenic E.coli. That's a medical emergency. These situations require a reintroduction of the flora in order for the patient to survive. It has been our clinic's experience that this particular probiotic has been very useful for such circumstances. It is not our practice to administer probiotics at our clinic as a form of treatment for infection, as it is not an exact means of targeting bacteria, and many of those pathogens would probably be resistant in any event. > > > RE: [infections] Re: The Gut > > > if you read my site, You will see that I believe replacing poor > quality gut flora with so callelled normal flora is priority requirement in > any therapy .How to achieve this is the question .It's a fact that > proprietary probiotics nether multiply or even stay in the gut .gut flora is > not permanently restored via probiotics , despite the hype , > > They present as an antigen and subsequently the immune system will mobilise > ageist them ... They are very much a double edged therapy ,with a balance to > be struck between the undoubted benefits if ingesting friendly bacteria and > the flip side being , committing Immune resources to combat alien ,none self > microbes . Can conditions in the gut be improved within the time scale that > the microbes are effective ..the answer must be no , in most cases anyway . > > I have not plucked this view from the air I have the references ..read my > site " normal Flora " and the " treatment " section . Click the bold type for > links > > Vendors of probiotics make a selling point of the transient effect of > probiotics ,[not to mention a Mickey Mouse explanation for the reasons of > why the transient effect] This link has a nice graph illustrating the point > .. > > http://www.customprobiotics.com/about_probiotics_a.htm > > http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2006 Report Share Posted July 20, 2006 I would think that you'd want to destroy the bad bugs and simultaneously be introducing good ones, hoping to at least help get some good bugs working in the void while giving the gut a chance to repopulate itself. But only if you know for sure you're killing the bad bugs dead, because some studies suggest that probiotics can gene swap with the pathogenic bugs and be converted to "the dark side". I've been tested numerous times, and the results always come back "very little or no beneficial flora". I've never tested positive for fungus (doesn't mean it's not there, but certainly not overwhelming enough to show up on tests). What amazes me is that I have very few intestinal problems despite the lack of good flora. Seems my body has adapted to the bad bugs somehow and functions anyway. I did have IBS for many, many years, but that went away some 10 years ago. The only time I experience similar symptoms now are when I'm on a new abx which causes a die-off. But whatever the bug was that gave me IBS for all those years, must no longer be in control. penny publicspirit <publicspirit@...> wrote: Hi , the ultimate goal is not to destroy the normal flora when treating intestinal infections. This is why phages are such an excellent choice for getting rid of pathogenic bacteria in the gut. Phages will only target the "bad guys"; it won't bother the good ones.In cases where patients have lost their intestinal flora - and we just treated a patient who had zero normal flora: 100% pathogenic bacteria in the intestinal tract, and this included pathogenic E.coli. That's a medical emergency. These situations require a reintroduction of the flora in order for the patient to survive. It has been our clinic's experience that this particular probiotic has been very useful for such circumstances. It is not our practice to administer probiotics at our clinic as a form of treatment for infection, as it is not an exact means of targeting bacteria, and many of those pathogens would probably be resistant in any event.>> > RE: [infections] Re: The Gut> > > if you read my site, You will see that I believe replacing poor> quality gut flora with so callelled normal flora is priority requirement in> any therapy .How to achieve this is the question .It's a fact that> proprietary probiotics nether multiply or even stay in the gut .gut flora is> not permanently restored via probiotics , despite the hype ,> > They present as an antigen and subsequently the immune system will mobilise> ageist them ... They are very much a double edged therapy ,with a balance to> be struck between the undoubted benefits if ingesting friendly bacteria and> the flip side being , committing Immune resources to combat alien ,none self> microbes . Can conditions in the gut be improved within the time scale that> the microbes are effective ..the answer must be no , in most cases anyway .> > I have not plucked this view from the air I have the references ..read my> site "normal Flora" and the "treatment" section . Click the bold type for> links> > Vendors of probiotics make a selling point of the transient effect of> probiotics ,[not to mention a Mickey Mouse explanation for the reasons of> why the transient effect] This link has a nice graph illustrating the point> .. > > http://www.customprobiotics.com/about_probiotics_a.htm> > http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Are you happy with your investigations? In your own case do you have both hands around the culprits of your disease?I hear you talk about fungi yet you've possably never ever done a fungal culture.Andy showed us a video of a parasitic invasion of a red cell- this does not stand up in my experience of microbiology as a spirochete.Sorry I can't call a mini minor a semi trailer... I also think that getting the bugs out of the gut is an ongoing never ending cycle because they have fixed themselves a permanent home which IMO necessitates you study IBS or irritable bowel diseases- I can send you a book... and they all find the therapies of antimicrobials and salicytates(sp) work yet DON " T FIX THE PROBLEM.Crohns is another example of things not getting better like you think.Actually this group of problems is extremely ugly and needs more respect...Surgery and dissection of the intestines is more common than the infection/inflammation being eradicated by wippy doo therapies (probiotics)being touted as fix all's. tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - > Release Date: > > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 19/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 This is not a slug fest... I can only tell you and show you what comes up in your ssample.. I can assure you though that nothing hides and I have no problem with spirochetes in the blood and feeling bad and no spirochetes and feeling good.I do have a problem with andy wright because the thing I saw was a croc of crap as far as it being a spirochete and if he had so many patients with so many spirochetes himself included we should be swarming with CRYSTAL CLEAR EVIDENCE and INVESTIGATIVE prowess.All I see is a rehash of bands and crap that gets no-one better.Remember I'm the pain in the arse that pushes the envelope taking into account the gravity of these infections- I keep harping high dose nystatin like no one on any internet site and you recently added to my conviction that you shouldn't mess around when therapies work and you gave some mind blowing high dose figures 10 million units a day I think.I also can't understand how you can't get a fungus sample to your daughter... that harbours on pathetic if she does microbiology and you have a strong conviction towards fungus and don't get her to give you some fungus ID's.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - > > Release Date: > > > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 19/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Also You put into perspective an overview of true gut dysbiosis- YOU ALMOST HAD SURGERY....So the total crap you've been on Penny about pales into insignificance when the true picture of disease of the bowel is represented. Gut dysbiosis take a probiotic and everythings fondalou.. Yet the other wards in the hospital an 18 year old is having pieces taken out of her intestines and she's doing the probiotic yet everything ain't fondalou..I'm sorry I just learned to respect these diseases for what they truly are systemic, gigantic, monsters that need true targeted therapy at the right duration and the right strength to suit each patients needs..Soundinmg off about the candida stories/dysbiosis is so old hat and off the radar in the true scheme of things...We really are here to learn... and absolutely challenge everything.... and going over stories that often date back ten plus years is what is possably jerking pennies chain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - > > Release Date: > > > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 19/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 You are such a whoosy! My daughters lab is subjected to scrutiny.Buddy if you got an opinion FROM OUR 300 forum members that you failed to get a fungal test when you daughter goes to a pathology lab everyday and is a microbiologist, I'm sure they'd think your a turkey. WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER WALKING IN WITH YOUR SAMPLE AND SAYING MY CATS GOT A PROBLEM WITH IT'S EAR AND I THOUGHT I WOULD USE MY SKILLS TO TRY AND FIND THE PROBLEM! MYSELF I get thrown off forums for arguing that someone sufgfering bi polar is actually the product of the whole disease-INFECTION. This didn't go down well three years ago.The other crap shoot that I attack is the silver amalgam story, and that got me thrown off experimental- MY ARGUEMENT IS MANY BECOME ILL AFTER THEY REMOVED THE SILVER AMALGAMS.. Sorry but I just found you to be barking out stuff thjat's ten years old, mind you i also believe in it whole heartedly... yet I also look at the bigger picture and feel gut dysbiosis is a lot more sinister and a lot more across the board from mild to extreme to indistinguishable from crohns as opposed to just rambling on about the fungus and whatever you simplify it as. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - > > > Release Date: > > > > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release > Date: > > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/394 - Release Date: 20/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 That is a pathetic, pathetic, pathetic excuse.You've obviously been sick for a number of years and the most important commodity for someone suffering a fungal infection is any piece of knowledge on guiding treatment and you can't swing it. THIS IS LIKE SAYING TO EVERYONE GIVE UP THE FIGHT... LOOK WHAT I HAVE AND I AM IN THE COMPLETE DARK AGES. I also come to this passionate angle because I recently had sporinox that did squat against a yeast and you normally do these treatments for months if not years. My attitude and bravado which not many obviously like on forums gets me into labs talking to the microbiologists and even to the lab owners. The irony is someone with similar bravado in the san diego region(female friend) also has the ability to get into the lab and get top shelf treatment because her doctors simply want her well, so have given her privaledges.. I'm also the clown that dared question passionately the nonsense that the MP was putting forth, as must do, and must have, and this is the only science.Boy was I not verty popular at the time...funny how everyone jumped ship eventually. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - > > > > Release Date: > > > > > 14/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release > > Date: > > > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release > Date: > > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: > > 19/07/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/394 - Release Date: > 20/07/2006 > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 21/07/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Kate This is like admiting defeat. Everyone knows that with these ilnesses we need more than a doctor, we need the treatment guidance of a lab. has been passionate about his fungus for at least the last year on this forum- he forgets the heart disease, cystitis and umpteen other complaints and just rambles on about the gut and fungus..The problem is he's stuck on first base and what he's waffling about is tried and true absolutely correct from 1979 when the first books on candida and the gut came out.Now he bags me for being different, for being direct, all out attack, actually most people don't like this.... but I can assure you I didn't sit opposite my doctors for very long like a wood duck, I took control and used the science to get myself well.Also The most important thing for anyone to remember is what you know and what you want your doctors to know is a very carefully evaluated strategy.I never ever go into a doctors appointment and tell him to read this article- I go in and show him a line no longer than 20 words so he can get the gist of things, I don't try and reprogram him. Also the fact that PAul will sit there and time and time again tell all how sinusitis is a fungal issue, 'cause mayo said so'.I've been responsable for a huge learning curve on this by getting over 100 cfs samples sent to a lab and myself for evaluation...He can't even formualte a strategy wherby his daughter inside or outside the lab she works in can identify his species..sorry, that's just complete and utter BS and smells like- lost the battle and the war in one swoop.What, while at school she didn't do a shit load of stuff, or she doesn't have friends inside the industry that can achieve this simple objective. Come on we are all sick and not hurdling this simple task is such a loss that it would make anyone think wow!!! I have nothing to look forward to at all.. > > > > > You are such a whoosy! My daughters lab is subjected to > > scrutiny.Buddy if you got an opinion FROM OUR 300 forum members that > > you failed to get a fungal test when you daughter goes to a > > pathology lab everyday and is a microbiologist, I'm sure they'd think > > your a turkey. > > WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER WALKING IN WITH YOUR SAMPLE AND SAYING MY CATS > > GOT A PROBLEM WITH IT'S EAR AND I THOUGHT I WOULD USE MY SKILLS TO > > TRY AND FIND THE PROBLEM! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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