Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Surely the question should be why are we infected in this age of high tech medicine .The actual pathogen is almost incidental... -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of jellybelly92008Sent: 17 June 2006 04:59infections Subject: [infections] Re: connect the dots Gosh Tony, you are as stinking arrogant as they come. Do you think you are the ONLY one who sees these symptoms as signs of chronic infection???? The problemo is which innfection? Every single thing you listed is a sypmtom of Lyme, Mycoplasma and Chlamydia. Do you think we don't know that? OR are you actually wanting us to accept without question your mantra of staph?I'd bet my house that staph is not the only infection that any of us have. You need to climb out of your box and broaden your viewpoint. If I have staph, then apparently the Minocycline I already take for all of the other chronic infections I am already diagnosed with, then it will be wiped out too, right? >> To all> If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck stiffness - sore eyes- > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- costochondritis of the rib > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of cardiac problem, often > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- tachycardia- (heart > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a minute).Thymus- is in > behind the sternum- issues in this area will cause muscle weakness. > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain lesions-inner ear > balance problems-hypothalamus not working properly- other brain stem > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into your throat and have > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your thyroid is coping a > pounding. etc. etc> You still think people with any group of these symptoms have something > hidding? This is virtually working from the head down and you can keep > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs and the list of > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- If you don't believe > your problem is huge and obvious you should get yourself on the next > 50 cent music video.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I've never known Tony to EVER tell me that my only organism is staph. I've only known him to be frustrated that people don't take such an obvious killer seriously. I share his frustration. People seem to completely ignore the evidence. There are many people like me who test neg. for all the organisms you cite and yet are very sick. Some of us have still been dx'd however, because we've looked for different sources of our infections and have had different testing than you. But so many more have not been dx'd because it would never occur to them that one of the many strains of a well known bug like staph might actually be making them sick. And the medical community doesn't want usto go there. Wide spread panic is something they try to avoid. I'd say the arrogance goes both ways. penny --- jellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: > Gosh Tony, you are as stinking arrogant as they > come. Do you think > you are the ONLY one who sees these symptoms as > signs of chronic > infection???? The problemo is which innfection? > Every single thing > you listed is a sypmtom of Lyme, Mycoplasma and > Chlamydia. Do you > think we don't know that? OR are you actually > wanting us to accept > without question your mantra of staph? > > I'd bet my house that staph is not the only > infection that any of us > have. You need to climb out of your box and broaden > your viewpoint. > If I have staph, then apparently the Minocycline I > already take for > all of the other chronic infections I am already > diagnosed with, > then it will be wiped out too, right? > > > > > > > To all > > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck > stiffness - sore > eyes- > > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- > costochondritis of the > rib > > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of > cardiac problem, > often > > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- > tachycardia- (heart > > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a > minute).Thymus- is in > > behind the sternum- issues in this area will cause > muscle > weakness. > > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain > lesions-inner ear > > balance problems-hypothalamus not working > properly- other brain > stem > > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into > your throat and > have > > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your > thyroid is coping a > > pounding. etc. etc > > You still think people with any group of these > symptoms have > something > > hidding? This is virtually working from the head > down and you can > keep > > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs and > the list of > > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- If > you don't > believe > > your problem is huge and obvious you should get > yourself on the > next > > 50 cent music video. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 I agree. But it seems in this high tech age, we're the only ones who even know we're infected, let alone asking why. At least that's what it seems we're supposed to believe. penny --- Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: > Surely the question should be why are we infected > in this age of high > tech medicine .The actual pathogen is almost > incidental... > > > [infections] Re: connect > the dots > > > Gosh Tony, you are as stinking arrogant as they > come. Do you think > you are the ONLY one who sees these symptoms as > signs of chronic > infection???? The problemo is which innfection? > Every single thing > you listed is a sypmtom of Lyme, Mycoplasma and > Chlamydia. Do you > think we don't know that? OR are you actually > wanting us to accept > without question your mantra of staph? > > I'd bet my house that staph is not the only > infection that any of us > have. You need to climb out of your box and > broaden your viewpoint. > If I have staph, then apparently the Minocycline I > already take for > all of the other chronic infections I am already > diagnosed with, > then it will be wiped out too, right? > > > > > > To all > > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck > stiffness - sore > eyes- > > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- > costochondritis of the > rib > > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of > cardiac problem, > often > > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- > tachycardia- (heart > > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a > minute).Thymus- is in > > behind the sternum- issues in this area will > cause muscle > weakness. > > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain > lesions-inner ear > > balance problems-hypothalamus not working > properly- other brain > stem > > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into > your throat and > have > > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your > thyroid is coping a > > pounding. etc. etc > > You still think people with any group of these > symptoms have > something > > hidding? This is virtually working from the head > down and you can > keep > > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs > and the list of > > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- > If you don't > believe > > your problem is huge and obvious you should get > yourself on the > next > > 50 cent music video. > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - > Release Date: 12/06/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Tony, he may not have been talking about the immune system. He may have been asking why are these bugs becoming so much more pathogenic, when they should be getting less pathogenic with all the modern advances? It's another one of those cases where technology creates as many problems, if not more, than it solves. (eg. increasing bacterial resistance). penny --- dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To all > > > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck > stiffness - sore > > eyes- > > > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- > costochondritis of the > > rib > > > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form > of cardiac > problem, > > often > > > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- > tachycardia- > (heart > > > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a > minute).Thymus- is > in > > > behind the sternum- issues in this area will > cause muscle > > weakness. > > > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain > lesions-inner > ear > > > balance problems-hypothalamus not working > properly- other brain > > stem > > > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into > your throat and > > have > > > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your > thyroid is > coping a > > > pounding. etc. etc > > > You still think people with any group of these > symptoms have > > something > > > hidding? This is virtually working from the > head down and you > can > > keep > > > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs > and the list of > > > people's problems stands out like a sore > thumb- If you don't > > believe > > > your problem is huge and obvious you should > get yourself on the > > next > > > 50 cent music video. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - > Release Date: > 12/06/2006 > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Under a rock! no no just on the computer everyday for the last six years looking for clues that makes some sense of my illness, You are too parochial . We must look beyond our own situation to the the bigger picture...There have been fundamental changes that make us susceptible to infections ...the rise in Autism ,yeast infections both are linked as is the increase in so called auto immune conditions ..read my site , I would welcome any constructive criticism from anyone .Tell me where my hypothesis falls down .. http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of dumbaussie2000Sent: 17 June 2006 12:24infections Subject: [infections] Re: connect the dots > >> > To all> > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck stiffness - sore> eyes-> > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- costochondritis of the> rib> > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of cardiac problem,> often> > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- tachycardia- (heart> > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a minute).Thymus- is in> > behind the sternum- issues in this area will cause muscle> weakness.> > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain lesions-inner ear> > balance problems-hypothalamus not working properly- other brain> stem> > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into your throat and> have> > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your thyroid is coping a> > pounding. etc. etc> > You still think people with any group of these symptoms have> something> > hidding? This is virtually working from the head down and you can> keep> > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs and the list of> > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- If you don't> believe> > your problem is huge and obvious you should get yourself on the> next> > 50 cent music video.> >> > > > > --> No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 12/06/2006> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Just a thought , your daughters symptoms are in line with Extension oculomycosis a condition i had and well may still have ..It pays to know as much as possible ..Has your daughter tried antifungals?.. Dr Fungus site http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/other/eyeinfections.htm -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of jellybelly92008Sent: 17 June 2006 15:44infections Subject: [infections] Re: connect the dots I have NO DOUBT that a sinus infection of this magnitude is serious. When my daughter was hospitalized for her sinus infection, it was finally realized with me pushing all the way that this smoldering infection had eaten a hole through a part of skull or cartilidge to her optic nerve causing the pupil and eyelid to react improperly....scarey for sure. Can't tell you how many doctors told me this ws not what was happening.I don't have your typical symptoms of sinus infection like my husband, I don't even have symptoms like my daughter had and hers were not typical either. I do have a lot of puffiness around my eyes. When I rub my eye, I can hear things squishing behind my eye, and oddly enough I produce no boggies at all. I think all of these things are very odd. Do they scream infection, not really. I do have drainage down my throat, and interestingly enough it gets worse when I take my micro mino. Does it hurt, not at all.These are odd, and I agree, I think I should look for an explanation, and I will, I promise.What ticks me off though is the way you condecend to those of us who aren't buying into your belief that staph is likely behind all of our ills. "Connect the dots"??? You say it in a way as if we are all to stupid to understand what you are saying and it really is so simple that a first grader should get it. Haing a lot of knowledge doesn't have to make you arrogant. Having strong opinions doesn't mean your arrogant. I know some of the most amazingly smart doctors who are some of the most humble people and talk to you as if they were talking to their family. Don't talk down to me, talk to me. Thing is, I may look at you and others who have all these syptoms and say you have to look into Lyme, Mycoplasma and Chlamydia P. You owe it to yourself to do that. Why would I feel that way? Because treating these things, has given me my health and life back. Didn't plan on treating staph, but inadvertantly I may have. It sounds like Penny has pursued the staph route and I'm not getting that she has improved all that much, I may have missed that. Staph may seem like a simple thing, but getting the results you say we should find is NOT that easy. Even if you can find a doc willing to run these tests, you still may get negatives. Then what? Pursue again and again and again, just like with the other infections. Can't tell you how many times I was tested for Lyme before the newer labs came along and I got a positive diagnosis. Had to be tested 2 times for Mycos before I came back pos. Testing for staph just isn't any easier then that.You still haven't said when staph goes out of the realm of being common and into the world of making us sick. Did staph in my dad knee mean it was all over his body or just localized in his knee and was handled by the ABX. Was the infection brought into the real of being common once again?Can we ever say there is a cure for staph, I don't think so, cuz it's always around. Can we bring it under control, put it into remission, possibly, but that is also true of all the other possible infections we are dealing with. We need to think infections accross the board, I don't believe it is primarily one or the other any more accross the board, to many variables.> > >> > > To all> > > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck stiffness - sore > > eyes- > > > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- costochondritis of the > > rib > > > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of cardiac problem, > > often > > > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- tachycardia- > (heart > > > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a minute).Thymus- is > in > > > behind the sternum- issues in this area will cause muscle > > weakness. > > > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain lesions-inner ear > > > balance problems-hypothalamus not working properly- other brain > > stem > > > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into your throat and > > have > > > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your thyroid is coping > a > > > pounding. etc. etc> > > You still think people with any group of these symptoms have > > something > > > hidding? This is virtually working from the head down and you > can > > keep > > > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs and the list of > > > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- If you don't > > believe > > > your problem is huge and obvious you should get yourself on the > > next > > > 50 cent music video.> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hi paul we should consider the vaccinations as a possible cause. bleu On 17 Jun 2006, at 18:09, Jaep wrote: >  Under a rock!  no no just on the computer everyday for the last six > years looking for clues that makes some sense of my illness, You are > too parochial . We must look beyond our own situation to the the > bigger picture...There have been fundamental changes that make us > susceptible to infections ...the rise in Autism ,yeast infections both > are linked as is the increase in so called auto immune conditions > ..read my site , I would welcome any constructive criticism from > anyone .Tell me where my hypothesis falls down .. >  > > http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ >  >  >> [infections] Re: connect the dots >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > To all >> > > If you have a sore throat-sinus problems-neck stiffness - sore >> > eyes- >> > > grade 3 esophageal erosion-sore sternum- costochondritis of the >> > rib >> > > cage(inflammation)- cardiomyopathy(some form of cardiac >> problem, >> > often >> > > undiagnosed as anything)90/50 blood pressure- tachycardia- >> (heart >> > > beats constantly around or over 100 beats a minute).Thymus- is >> in >> > > behind the sternum- issues in this area will cause muscle >> > weakness. >> > > some form of lung disease- asthma- COPD. brain lesions-inner >> ear >> > > balance problems-hypothalamus not working properly- other brain >> > stem >> > > issues- your tonsils engrained themselves into your throat and >> > have >> > > disappeared due to long term inflammation.Your thyroid is >> coping a >> > > pounding. etc. etc >> > > You still think people with any group of these symptoms have >> > something >> > > hidding? This is virtually working from the head down and you >> can >> > keep >> > > going out to the arsehole and down to the legs and the list of >> > > people's problems stands out like a sore thumb- If you don't >> > believe >> > > your problem is huge and obvious you should get yourself on the >> > next >> > > 50 cent music video. >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this outgoing message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: >> 12/06/2006 >> > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Tony, I expect you also recall that I am the patient whose doctor thought the tonsils had been removed. I just saw an ENT yesterday for something totally unrelated to my tonsils. No doctor has been the least bit concerned that I no longer have VISIBLE tonsils. My throat remains about as symptom free as I have ever been in my entire life. I cannot find anything online that would indicate I should be concerned. Indeed, quite the opposite. It is normal for healthy adults to have smaller tonsils than children. The only time I have had enlarged tonsils as an adult was the first year I got sick with cfs in 1995. I also had elevated EBV titres that year, and one would expect the tonsils to be inflamed in that case. Again, if you can give me ANY documentation that small adult tonsils are a thing of concern I would love to read it. a a Go back and read the cfs experimental site, this is the type of thing that isn't so invisable- I have had 30 year olds with surgery that had there tonsil infection scrapped well into the throat. Actually at cfs experimental a doctor told someone it's good to see you had your tonsils removed to which the patient replied NO I HAVEN " T ..I just hope you can connect the HEAD - NECK - and into THE CHEST part of this disease, not to mention the shoulders which don't fair well either. You may even find your royal heighness over there commented on such event.Possably going back a month... I'm sure you think there';s a couple of sheep short in the top paddock but at least your all starting to question some of ths hysterias around the invisable aspects of this crapola. cheers > > your tonsils engrained themselves into your throat and have > disappeared due to long term inflammation. > > Tony, > > Would you please give a link to anything to support this? How about a > picture of what healthy normal tonsils look like, or a research study > indicating that sick tonsils shrink - just anything. This makes NO SENSE AT > ALL TO ME, but what do I know. > > a Carnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Jelly, I appreciate so much what you have written here. It rings true for me. Also, my experience is very similar to yours. Finding mycoplasma fermentans and borrelia with possible babesia has fit with my response to antibiotics and it fits with my past symptoms. In my case I have one additional evidence that borrelia is the main player – both my husband and one son also are infected with borrelia. a I have NO DOUBT that a sinus infection of this magnitude is serious. When my daughter was hospitalized for her sinus infection, it was finally realized with me pushing all the way that this smoldering infection had eaten a hole through a part of skull or cartilidge to her optic nerve causing the pupil and eyelid to react improperly....scarey for sure. Can't tell you how many doctors told me this ws not what was happening. I don't have your typical symptoms of sinus infection like my husband, I don't even have symptoms like my daughter had and hers were not typical either. I do have a lot of puffiness around my eyes. When I rub my eye, I can hear things squishing behind my eye, and oddly enough I produce no boggies at all. I think all of these things are very odd. Do they scream infection, not really. I do have drainage down my throat, and interestingly enough it gets worse when I take my micro mino. Does it hurt, not at all. These are odd, and I agree, I think I should look for an explanation, and I will, I promise. What ticks me off though is the way you condecend to those of us who aren't buying into your belief that staph is likely behind all of our ills. " Connect the dots " ??? You say it in a way as if we are all to stupid to understand what you are saying and it really is so simple that a first grader should get it. Haing a lot of knowledge doesn't have to make you arrogant. Having strong opinions doesn't mean your arrogant. I know some of the most amazingly smart doctors who are some of the most humble people and talk to you as if they were talking to their family. Don't talk down to me, talk to me. Thing is, I may look at you and others who have all these syptoms and say you have to look into Lyme, Mycoplasma and Chlamydia P. You owe it to yourself to do that. Why would I feel that way? Because treating these things, has given me my health and life back. Didn't plan on treating staph, but inadvertantly I may have. It sounds like Penny has pursued the staph route and I'm not getting that she has improved all that much, I may have missed that. Staph may seem like a simple thing, but getting the results you say we should find is NOT that easy. Even if you can find a doc willing to run these tests, you still may get negatives. Then what? Pursue again and again and again, just like with the other infections. Can't tell you how many times I was tested for Lyme before the newer labs came along and I got a positive diagnosis. Had to be tested 2 times for Mycos before I came back pos. Testing for staph just isn't any easier then that. You still haven't said when staph goes out of the realm of being common and into the world of making us sick. Did staph in my dad knee mean it was all over his body or just localized in his knee and was handled by the ABX. Was the infection brought into the real of being common once again? Can we ever say there is a cure for staph, I don't think so, cuz it's always around. Can we bring it under control, put it into remission, possibly, but that is also true of all the other possible infections we are dealing with. We need to think infections accross the board, I don't believe it is primarily one or the other any more accross the board, to many variables. > > Jelly > Your missing my point....I'm trying to sho3w you how important it is > to take seriously a sinus infection of the head which leaks > throughout the upper body and connects up the whole mess of symptoms. > So if you have pseudonomas/staph / candida in the esophagus you > shouldn't take it with a grain of salt- it has meaning. > I don't think this is arrogance I'm just tryijng to paint a picture > that you have a stinking infection that's not hiding.But you > obviously can't see how a staph in the knee not taken seriously can > fester for many years and create further havoc- basically something > chronic waiting a chance to become acute. > This is all my point has been if you haven't gone to first base- why > are you in the never never land of stealth pathogens , mycoplamsa, > and Bb. > By the way my arrogance has lead many to question what is actually > occuring when they are feeling violently ill- yourself included. > tony > .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 , this is the first time I have looked at your site. You have done a wonderful job and lots of research. I do think that Lyme disease is the cause of SOME cases of autism. I also know that many children with Lyme are not autistic but still sick with other symptoms. My own son developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. He had severe migraine-like headache and vertigo. The docs think he was infected as a fetus and also again as a child and teen. His only childhood evidence was “growing pains” never diagnosed and a brief episode of amnesia for a few minutes at age 15. It is also possible, although not at all clear, that he was high functioning Asbergers syndrome – or maybe he just didn’t socialize well – who knows. He is doing fine at age 32 and with the borrelia under control for now. Anyway, my concern is that your summary of Lyme minimizes what might be THE clue in SOME cases. I wonder if you would want to give just a bit more information on how parents can get accurate testing for borrelia in the UK just in CASE their child fits that category? a Under a rock! no no just on the computer everyday for the last six years looking for clues that makes some sense of my illness, You are too parochial . We must look beyond our own situation to the the bigger picture...There have been fundamental changes that make us susceptible to infections ...the rise in Autism ,yeast infections both are linked as is the increase in so called auto immune conditions ..read my site , I would welcome any constructive criticism from anyone .Tell me where my hypothesis falls down .. http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Thanks a, I will add some info on testing but it's clear that over here at least the pioneers have run for cover. Don't stick your head up, keep the status quo .Cant get into trouble that way ..Who can blame them after witnessing the persecution of Dr Wakefield ... -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of a CarnesSent: 17 June 2006 19:44infections Subject: RE: [infections] Re: connect the dots , this is the first time I have looked at your site. You have done a wonderful job and lots of research. I do think that Lyme disease is the cause of SOME cases of autism. I also know that many children with Lyme are not autistic but still sick with other symptoms. My own son developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. He had severe migraine-like headache and vertigo. The docs think he was infected as a fetus and also again as a child and teen. His only childhood evidence was “growing pains” never diagnosed and a brief episode of amnesia for a few minutes at age 15. It is also possible, although not at all clear, that he was high functioning Asbergers syndrome – or maybe he just didn’t socialize well – who knows. He is doing fine at age 32 and with the borrelia under control for now. Anyway, my concern is that your summary of Lyme minimizes what might be THE clue in SOME cases. I wonder if you would want to give just a bit more information on how parents can get accurate testing for borrelia in the UK just in CASE their child fits that category? a Under a rock! no no just on the computer everyday for the last six years looking for clues that makes some sense of my illness, You are too parochial . We must look beyond our own situation to the the bigger picture...There have been fundamental changes that make us susceptible to infections ...the rise in Autism ,yeast infections both are linked as is the increase in so called auto immune conditions ..read my site , I would welcome any constructive criticism from anyone .Tell me where my hypothesis falls down .. http://www.yeast-candida-infections-uk.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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