Re: PENNY.....It has been a long time of sustained wellness!!!

[Guest guest]

You're married to the idea of "months of herxing" and as far as I'm concerned, this kind of thinking being accepted as fact without proof, may actually be doing our community more harm than good. Herxing, by definition, is NOT supposed to be an ongoing event. The problem I have is the repeated usage of the term in an unsupported way to explain something we don't really understand yet. It doesn't help our credibility as patients, and confuses patients to boot. Also, like I said, I'm glad you're doing better but your definition of remission and mine are not the same. Plus you've said yourself that you've only been doing low dose for a short time, and that you started it after you were already in remission. So why should I get excited about low dose abx based on your report? Because it makes you feel bad, then a little better. Better than what? Better than better? How is this any kind of

proof that low dose is responsible for a cure? I've heard you attribute your remission to a number of other things besides low dose antibiotics. It's the low dose that I was referring to getting "excited" about. I'm giong to have to see very sick people respond favorably to low dose abx and sustain that recovery, before I'm going to start messing around with my bugs. I started off with very resistant bugs. I'm not going to risk creating more on a hail mary pass. penny jellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: Penny!! 3/12-4 years of this degree of remission not good enough??? You know when I knew I had turned a corner was after the hospitalization of my preemie grandaughter. It was a HIGHLY intense 4 months starting with the marriage of my son. I can't even tell you. Neo-natal intensive care is pretty terrifying, and when you baby is one of the tiniest, you can't imagine. Not only dealing with your own child but then there other families in the beds next to you with much bigger babies, loosing their little ones.My daughter and I spent 2 1/2 months in a hotel close to the hospital with my just 2 year old grandaughter. It was day after day of high drama as these itt bitty ones can take a turn for the worst at any moment and be gone. There were coountless sleepless nights tht just rolled into the next day. Nothing but fast food, if you could even eat. Then

as I said my dad died.His death was nightmareish. The last time I heard my dads voice, he was screaming in agony over the phone across the ocean, he was out of his head and my brother was trying to hold him down to keep oxygen on. He had staph on a heart valve and he died the very next day while being life flighted to Honolulu for heart surgery. This was stress of the rawest kind. I was sitting on a hotel bed, totally unable to do anything. I lost it, and had to go home. But, 2 days later I was back in the NICU. I had been on ABX on and off for about 1 year or so prior to this. I had quit just when all of this stuff started happening about 5 months earlier. I could not herx, and deal with this stuff at the same time. The whole time this was going on I KNEW without a doubt I was going to crash, and CRASH HARD when this was over, and that was before my dad died. I was a train wreck waiting to happen.When

it was over and my now 5 lb grandaughter was doing awesome, I went home. I was exhausted and emotionally the toll was huge. I waited to crash, and I waited and I waited and I waited some more. The crash NEVER came. In fact after a couple of months I was making plans to move 900 miles to New Mexico for a new start in life. Tough enough for a healthy person. This meant selling homes, and finishing up a business. Even though we love NM, we had to return to California 18 months later, another 900 miles back. Unfortuneatly things didn't go smoothly while in NM, again huge stress, and my daughter is now a single mother with chronic Lyme. So anyway Blah, blah, blah, life goes on.My point is, that through ALL of this, I am STILL in remission. The only time I really feel awful is when I start that tiny dose of Mino. Going through hell in the rest of my life, I'm ok, BETER THEN OK!!! But give me a tiny dose of Mino

and down I go!You can wait another year to see how I am doing to maybe get exceited, but I am dang exceited NOW.***Penny, I know that people respond to many ABX when dealing with certain infections and they do so quickly. I have often told people when treating acase of bronchitis or something, that if you are on the right ABX, you will see adifference withing a day. BUT, LYME, MYCOPLASMA AND CHLAMYDIA, etc., aren't just any old infction. We all know that!!! These infections DO NOT respond in a few days to ABX and then we are well. Heck, if that was the case, not a one of us would be here on any of these support boards. We'd all be well. It is expected that there will be months of killing going on and that means months of herxing. When we no longer herx without going into relapse when NOT on ABX, then we likely have the upper hand and can expect to keep it for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- > who's > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is > > basically > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about reading >

> stuff > > > > that > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > > deceiving ...> > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > tetracyclines > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate > > that > > > > they > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating > > > > bacteria > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the > top > > > of > > > > the > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there

is alot of people that don't get well > > > with > > > > the > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or > > cruches > > > is > > > > the > > > > > rigth thing.> > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its > means > > > > that > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Penny, Penny, Penny, where on earth do you get that I started low

dose Mino AFTER I was already in remission???? I know I have given a

lot of info and there is tons of stuff to read here so we have a

tendency to skim material. I wouldn't be telling you this, IF I was

already in remission when starting the low dose Mino. I may be brain

fogged, but not that brain fogged.

I have been on low dose Mino for close to 4 years, that is not a

short time. Hard to remember exactly but it was when my 1st

grandaugter was a newborn and she is starting kindergarten this fall.

I only took full dose Doxy for 8 days, that is where I went to the

ER because of HR at 145 at BP heading toward the floor. A month

later maybe I tried 50 mgs. of Mino for about a week, couldn't hack

it, that is when I was under the heating pads to get warm in July.

I was never in remission before that. Highly functional, but that

was only because I responded very well to large amounts of Elavil

and Flexeril. STILL I had major circulation problems in the form of

hypercoagultion, Nuerally Mediated Hypotension, heart rate of 120

always, Raynaud's several times a day, dropping things, knocking

things across the room, needed naps often, couldn't sleep without

the Elavil, didn't deep sleep, didn't dream, V-tach which is deadly,

etc, etc, etc. I was NOT in remission in any sense of the word.

Don't know where you got that I was.

You can try to pick this apart, but I know what happened in regards

to myself. It may not work for everyone, but it is working for me,

unless someone can prove to me that being in remission is all in my

head (and that would be a twist on the we are nuts scenario).

You don't have to try this, if you are worried about building

resistant bugs. You can watch me for another 4 years if you want. I

posted this stuff at least a year ago too and I am still making

progress. Tony remembers my posts, I know other know my progress as

well.

The resistant bug thing is in part why I want to understand how Mino

works. If it is only the ABX doing the killing, then this might be

an issue, BUT if low dose Mino makes your immune system more capable

of killing this stuff, and that is why I am herxing then it wouldn't

seem to be an issue. Do you follow? Anybody?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

> > who's

> > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> > > basically

> > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

reading

> > > stuff

> > > > > that

> > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > tetracyclines

> > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> stimulate

> > > that

> > > > > they

> > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

stimulating

> > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near

the

> > top

> > > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get

> well

> > > > with

> > > > > the

> > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or

> > > cruches

> > > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its

> > means

> > > > > that

> > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly, I'm completely confused now. One post you say you've only done such and such 4 times, & another post you've been doing it for years. Hey, I'm happy for you, but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? You're asking questions we can't answer, and if you're trying to convince me of something other than your own experience (which I will accept at face value for whatever it is), it's not really working. You've reported great results from other treatments as well which you've been a strong proponent for. I'm interested in receiving information on treatments, but I'm not interested in being convinced of anything without some kind of supporting reasoning. Based on years of past experience, when people start trying to convince or sell me something without backing it up, I start becoming more skeptical rather than less, with good reason. penny jellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: Penny, Penny, Penny, where on earth do you get that I started low dose Mino AFTER I was already in remission???? I know I have given a lot of info and there is tons of stuff to read here so we have a tendency to skim material. I wouldn't be telling you this, IF I was already in remission when starting the low dose Mino. I may be brain fogged, but not that brain fogged.I have been on low dose Mino for close to 4 years, that is not a short time. Hard to remember exactly but it

was when my 1st grandaugter was a newborn and she is starting kindergarten this fall.I only took full dose Doxy for 8 days, that is where I went to the ER because of HR at 145 at BP heading toward the floor. A month later maybe I tried 50 mgs. of Mino for about a week, couldn't hack it, that is when I was under the heating pads to get warm in July.I was never in remission before that. Highly functional, but that was only because I responded very well to large amounts of Elavil and Flexeril. STILL I had major circulation problems in the form of hypercoagultion, Nuerally Mediated Hypotension, heart rate of 120 always, Raynaud's several times a day, dropping things, knocking things across the room, needed naps often, couldn't sleep without the Elavil, didn't deep sleep, didn't dream, V-tach which is deadly, etc, etc, etc. I was NOT in remission in any sense of the word. Don't know where you got that I

was.You can try to pick this apart, but I know what happened in regards to myself. It may not work for everyone, but it is working for me, unless someone can prove to me that being in remission is all in my head (and that would be a twist on the we are nuts scenario).You don't have to try this, if you are worried about building resistant bugs. You can watch me for another 4 years if you want. I posted this stuff at least a year ago too and I am still making progress. Tony remembers my posts, I know other know my progress as well.The resistant bug thing is in part why I want to understand how Mino works. If it is only the ABX doing the killing, then this might be an issue, BUT if low dose Mino makes your immune system more capable of killing this stuff, and that is why I am herxing then it wouldn't seem to be an issue. Do you follow? Anybody? > > > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- > > who's > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is > > > basically > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

reading > > > stuff > > > > > that > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > > > deceiving ...> > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > > tetracyclines > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they > stimulate > > > that > > > > > they > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the > > top > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get > well > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or > > > cruches > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > rigth thing.> > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its > > means > > > > > that > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >>

>>

[Guest guest]

Penny, I am so sorry if I have confused you. I think the only

mention of 4 previously was recently when talking about my most

recent 4 doses of Mino in the last 10 days. Other places I have

stated I have done this low dose Mino thing 10-15 times. So, again

sorry if you are now throughly confused.

I would like to clear this up though. I did not come here to

convince you of anything. I came here asking how Mino works which

involved me expllaining what has been my experience with low dose

Mino. What happened is that " you " tried to convince me that I am not

herxing.

If you are not interested, that's ok with me. I wasn't looking to

win you over, just to understand the mechanics of Mino. IF though

this discussion rings true for others as well, then great.

Dealing with these illnesses unfortunatly there is not usually much

proof of anything. Most of what mainstream medicne has to offer us

is only on what they know thus far. We still are often treated based

on supposition, because that is all we have. We are getting things

hammered out slowly, and I believe discussions like this are a very

large part in finding the answers. That is why I came here, cuz I

know there are a lot of heavy thinkers here:}

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

> > > who's

> > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> > > > basically

> > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> reading

> > > > stuff

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > stimulate

> > > > that

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> stimulating

> > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near

> the

> > > top

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't

get

> > well

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks

or

> > > > cruches

> > > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing,

Its

> > > means

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly

Another inbteresting tale. your dad had a staph infection in the

heart? You have obvious signs of staph exfoliating toxins(lips keep

peeling and some other signs) and you think your heart is in perfect

condition cause a doc told you so, yet your capable of switching on

something buried in your heart muscle/valve that will knock you for

a six with a few mg's of mino- read between the lines you need to do

your homework a little better. I would start with a staph areus

screen (nasal swab) you obviously witnessed how painfull and

devastating it can be on the elderely first hamnd.You don't want to

be in the dark with such organisms cause they transfer easily.

tony

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

> > who's

> > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> > > basically

> > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

reading

> > > stuff

> > > > > that

> > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > tetracyclines

> > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> stimulate

> > > that

> > > > > they

> > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

stimulating

> > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near

the

> > top

> > > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get

> well

> > > > with

> > > > > the

> > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or

> > > cruches

> > > > is

> > > > > the

> > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its

> > means

> > > > > that

> > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly:

Penny is not saying she's not interested.

We are all interested. This is not the first time we have had

discussions about low dose or ectremely low dose antibiotics, and

what they do. I have researched for a long while before reaching my

current opinion. And 3 years ago, I saw first hand an RA friend of

mine who reacted adversely to small doses of Mino, but did not react

aadversley to larger ones. I conceed SOMTHING can happen at small

doses - but I don't know WHAT that is... but I'm pretty convinced

about what it's NOT.

I have supplied to you the supporting literature for my opinions.

You asked how Mino works, and we produced the literature

(for example, I have produced, abstracts, and supporting evidence

that Mino's DOSE defines whether an antimicrobial acts on bacteria or

not, and that there are other immune modulating effects at low dose.)

I have also produced supporting evidence that the herx is an

initial systemic response to the death of (mainly) Gram Negative

bacteria and is transient which is why I think what's happening to

you is something other than a herx.

I have presented my data, and you are free to come to your own

conclusions.

No one is " trying' to make you think any particular way.I hope I've

explain satisfactorily why I think the way I do.

Barb

>

> Penny, I am so sorry if I have confused you. I think the only

> mention of 4 previously was recently when talking about my most

> recent 4 doses of Mino in the last 10 days. Other places I have

> stated I have done this low dose Mino thing 10-15 times. So, again

> sorry if you are now throughly confused.

>

> I would like to clear this up though. I did not come here to

> convince you of anything. I came here asking how Mino works which

> involved me expllaining what has been my experience with low dose

> Mino. What happened is that " you " tried to convince me that I am

not

> herxing.

>

> If you are not interested, that's ok with me. I wasn't looking to

> win you over, just to understand the mechanics of Mino. IF though

> this discussion rings true for others as well, then great.

>

> Dealing with these illnesses unfortunatly there is not usually much

> proof of anything. Most of what mainstream medicne has to offer us

> is only on what they know thus far. We still are often treated

based

> on supposition, because that is all we have. We are getting things

> hammered out slowly, and I believe discussions like this are a very

> large part in finding the answers. That is why I came here, cuz I

> know there are a lot of heavy thinkers here:}

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly

I think I know what your looking for. Your experience is creating a

huge turnover of red cells, your virtually stimulating the bad

infected ones into getting pulled out at the spleen.From a so

called experience you name herx you can find in your next blood

count a younger red cell colony.Wether an escalating anemia is a

good thing?

Also your making youirself ill to convince yourself your holding

steady?What makes you make you5rself ill when you claim your doing

well.

tony

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of

testimony's-

>

> > > > who's

> > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this

is

> > > > > basically

> > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> > reading

> > > > > stuff

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised.

it's

> > > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > > stimulate

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> > stimulating

> > > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was

near

> > the

> > > > top

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

> SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't

> get

> > > well

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks

> or

> > > > > cruches

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing,

> Its

> > > > means

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a

candidate.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, I am not trying to convince you that you're not herxing. You're not listening. I'm trying to convince you to study what a herx is, and then use the term responsibly. Because the whole point here is trying to figure out how to help people who are sick, not being right or wrong. If you're speculating, then make it very clear that you're speculating. Most people have such wrong ideas about infection and antimicrobials that it's making it very difficult for people to get to any kind of legitimate understanding to base treatment on. Poor treatment decisions results in bad interpretations of what's going on and bad publicity. You have always had very decided preconceptions about antibiotics, and now you've adopted ideas about "herxing" that aren't proven but are commonly cited. I'm not going to just sit by without at least contesting some of your misconceptions. If you

say you're herxing on minocycline, I'm going to be sure to point out that what you are describing (and omitting) is also a well researched & documented reaction to mincoycline, not identified as a herx. I've said before, I'm not contesting your experience. I'm contesting your rationalization for why it's happening, because no one knows why you're experiencing what you're experiencing. It may be something similar to a "herx", but it's not a proven herx in the true sense of the word. Saying it is, just leads to further confusion on what a herx is, and can cause people to misinterpret their own reactions. I'm happy you're doing better if you say you are. But you're not who I'm really concerned with. I'm concerned with all the people who aren't doing well and may do worse because they misinterpret what they hear. penny jellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: Penny, I am so sorry if I have confused you. I think the only mention of 4 previously was recently when talking about my most recent 4 doses of Mino in the last 10 days. Other places I have stated I have done this low dose Mino thing 10-15 times. So, again sorry if you are now throughly confused.I would like to clear this up though. I did not come here to convince you of anything. I came here asking how Mino works which involved me expllaining what has been my experience with low

dose Mino. What happened is that "you" tried to convince me that I am not herxing.If you are not interested, that's ok with me. I wasn't looking to win you over, just to understand the mechanics of Mino. IF though this discussion rings true for others as well, then great.Dealing with these illnesses unfortunatly there is not usually much proof of anything. Most of what mainstream medicne has to offer us is only on what they know thus far. We still are often treated based on supposition, because that is all we have. We are getting things hammered out slowly, and I believe discussions like this are a very large part in finding the answers. That is why I came here, cuz I know there are a lot of heavy thinkers here:} > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-> > > who's > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is > > > > basically > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about > reading > > > > stuff > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > > > > deceiving ...> > > > >

> > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > > > tetracyclines > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they > > stimulate > > > > that > > > > > > they > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with > stimulating > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near > the > > > top > > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get > > well > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or > > > > cruches > > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > rigth thing.> > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its > > > means > > > > > > that > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >>

>>

[Guest guest]

Barb, I do appreciate the info you have provided and I am mulling it

over. I don't understand it enough at this point to be convinced of

what you are saying however, but I always have an open mind. It will

take me more then a couple of days to comprehend what you have

gleened over a 3 year period. It will take me extra time with my

brain working as it is while dealing with this " reaction " to ;ow

dose Mino:}

Frustrating as all get up though that you are so convinced of what

it is " not " . Cause it really doesn't explain what is happening to me

and a handful of others. That is really what I want to know and why

I came to talk to all of you. Hopefully time will eventually give up

some answers.

Sometimes, even though this conversation may have gone on on

numerouos times before, all of a sudden a light bulb goes off in

someones head when hearing it from a slightly different angle. There

are people here who are conceding to something going because of the

low dose Mino since the conversation began. That is progress.

If anything comes to anyone I usally check in at Lymenet daily, so

you can reach me there. I will be around here a little longer just

to answer any more replys to me:}

> >

> > Penny, I am so sorry if I have confused you. I think the only

> > mention of 4 previously was recently when talking about my most

> > recent 4 doses of Mino in the last 10 days. Other places I have

> > stated I have done this low dose Mino thing 10-15 times. So,

again

> > sorry if you are now throughly confused.

> >

> > I would like to clear this up though. I did not come here to

> > convince you of anything. I came here asking how Mino works

which

> > involved me expllaining what has been my experience with low

dose

> > Mino. What happened is that " you " tried to convince me that I am

> not

> > herxing.

> >

> > If you are not interested, that's ok with me. I wasn't looking

to

> > win you over, just to understand the mechanics of Mino. IF

though

> > this discussion rings true for others as well, then great.

> >

> > Dealing with these illnesses unfortunatly there is not usually

much

> > proof of anything. Most of what mainstream medicne has to offer

us

> > is only on what they know thus far. We still are often treated

> based

> > on supposition, because that is all we have. We are getting

things

> > hammered out slowly, and I believe discussions like this are a

very

> > large part in finding the answers. That is why I came here, cuz

I

> > know there are a lot of heavy thinkers here:}

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, minocycline could definitely be messing with our hearts. Especially low dose. I've checked into this before. Minocycline makes my heart completely nuts. Why someone might feel better afterwards is an interesting question, but also kind of risky. Because some people react really well to mino, others don't. And at least part of that has to be the organisms you're trying to treat and which part of the body systems have been infected. Heart infections, fluid/pressure on the brain, etc. can possibly cause some pretty nasty reactions. Joint and bone infections might elicit an entirely different reaction. penny dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: Jelly Another inbteresting tale. your dad had a staph infection in the heart? You have obvious signs of staph exfoliating toxins(lips keep peeling and some other signs) and you think your heart is in perfect condition cause a doc told you so, yet your capable of switching on something buried in your heart muscle/valve that will knock you for a six with a few mg's of mino- read between the lines you need to do your homework a little better. I would start with a staph areus screen (nasal swab) you obviously witnessed how painfull and devastating it can be on the elderely first hamnd.You don't want to be in the dark with such organisms cause they transfer easily.tony> > > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- > > who's > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is > > > basically > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about reading > > > stuff > > > > > that > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > > > deceiving ...> > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > > tetracyclines > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they > stimulate > > > that > > > > > they > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a

problem with stimulating > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the > > top > > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get > well > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or > > > cruches > > > > is > > > > > the > > > > > > rigth thing.> >

> > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its > > means > > > > > that > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I've heard of a person who went into a full remission after having a complete blood transfusion. Whether it will last for 5 years is another question, but I tell you, I'd love to have a blood transfusion (with clean blood). Maybe dialysis too. Would just like to see how much better I get when I clean up my blood. I think this is why I respond so well to some abx, for a while anyway. My doc is buying some new blood cleaning device. He's convinced it could reduce our bacterial loads and make us feel quite a bit better. One thing about my doc, he'll try anything. I might give it a try, or just wait to see whether it gets shoved into storage with all the other things he's tried. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: JellyI think I know what your looking for. Your experience is creating a huge turnover of red cells, your virtually stimulating the bad infected ones into getting pulled out at the spleen.From a so called experience you name herx you can find in your next blood count a younger red cell colony.Wether an escalating anemia is a good thing?Also your making youirself ill to convince yourself your holding steady?What makes you make you5rself ill when you claim your doing well.tony> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-> > > > > who's > > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact

zones-this is > > > > > basically > > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about > > reading > > > > > stuff > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > > > > > deceiving ...> > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > > > > tetracyclines > > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they > > > stimulate > > > > > that > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with > > stimulating > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs

and mino was one that was near > > the > > > > top > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER > SAMPLES.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't > get > > > well > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks > or > > > > > cruches > > > > > > is >

> > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rigth thing.> > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, > Its > > > > means > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

My " heart " keeps me " making myself ill " as you call it. My heart is

still irritable. I do not assume my heart is just fine as you

suggest earlier just because a doc said it looks structually sound.

I believe the Lyme and/or Myco is in my heart. I am on a beta

blocker to slow my heart down. When my heart slows without the help

of meds then I will be done. Point of interest though is that since

using the low dose Mino, my HR went from a steady 120 down to about

90. That was before the beta blocker and now it is down into the low

60s.

It may take higher doses of Mino to reach deep into my heart. But to

be honest, that kind of scares me with the kind of arrythmia I have.

My heart also speeds up when on the low dose mino and I don't want

to send it over the edge....so that is part of why I go slow.

In regards to the staph. Just for the heck of it, next time I see my

doc I will have him swab my nose for staph. My dad, he had staph

inserted into his blood stream about 10 days prior to his death

during and angio gram, right to his heart.

Is the red blood cell thing, good or bad and what happens to

pathogens that inhabitied the old cells? How do you know this?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of

> testimony's-

> >

> > > > > who's

> > > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-

this

> is

> > > > > > basically

> > > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> > > reading

> > > > > > stuff

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised.

> it's

> > > > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > > > stimulate

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> > > stimulating

> > > > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was

> near

> > > the

> > > > > top

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

> > SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that

don't

> > get

> > > > well

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking

sticks

> > or

> > > > > > cruches

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right

thing,

> > Its

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a

> candidate.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny, I would definetly like to know where you read that. Any key

words that would help me find this info?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

> > > who's

> > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> > > > basically

> > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> reading

> > > > stuff

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > stimulate

> > > > that

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> stimulating

> > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near

> the

> > > top

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't

get

> > well

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks

or

> > > > cruches

> > > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing,

Its

> > > means

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly,I am also confused and can't follow your history, probably because of skimming posts like you said (after all, we do have to deal with real life in our spare time, eh!). But what I grabbed onto is your hypercoagulation. Maybe when you solved that, your body was able to recover on its own. Maybe you don't need to torture yourself with Mino and maybe you are having adverse drug reactions to it.Or maybe not. :-)- KateOn Jun 13, 2006, at 11:42 AM, jellybelly92008 wrote:Penny, Penny, Penny, where on earth do you get that I started low dose Mino AFTER I was already in remission???? I know I have given a lot of info and there is tons of stuff to read here so we have a tendency to skim material. I wouldn't be telling you this, IF I was already in remission when starting the low dose Mino. I may be brain fogged, but not that brain fogged.I have been on low dose Mino for close to 4 years, that is not a short time.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jelly,

I think my question got lost in the flow. Have you been tested again for Lyme and Myco since your improvement ?

Carole

> If anything comes to anyone I usally check in at Lymenet daily, so you can reach me there. I will be around here a little longer just to answer any more replys to me:}

[Guest guest]

Sorry Carole, not lost just an easy question to answer the others

are harder and when I have the thought I have to write it down or it

will be gone.

I have not been tested for Mycos again. I was tested for Lyme a

little over a year ago, within this period of low dose Mino. I don't

know how familiar you are with Lyme testing, but the longer you have

been sick the likelier it is that you will get a false negative. My

mom who has been sick at least as long as me had absolutely no

antibodies showing in her test, not to anything, even besides Lyme.

After a few months on ABX herxing like heck the whole time, she was

retested and came back fully CDC posiotive which is hard to do.

What often happens is when you are started on ABX, and then get

retested you often end up sith a positive result. Why this happens

is a litle lenghty to explain right now. I had my daughter take low

dose Mino for 2 weeks before she was tested and she also came back

CDC positive for Lyme.

So I've been on low dose ABX on and off for the last 4 years, but it

had been a real long time since I had been on any Mino when I was

tested for Lyme, probably close to a year. I still got a mildly

positive result. I had one band that was positive and is specific

only for Lyme. Several other Indeterminates which are positives in

the eyes of a Lyme specialist.

So I guess what you are asking is, what should our blood test look

like when we are totally well? The problem with that is with Lyme we

will never be totally well. We hope to go into remission, but can at

any time relapse, because there is no cure at this time. So there

could or could not be antibodies at any given time.

Is that at all what you were looking for?

>

> > If anything comes to anyone I usally check in at Lymenet daily,

so you

> can reach me there. I will be around here a little longer just to

> answer any more replys to me:}

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response Jelly. I gather that with Lyme nothing is

simple! I was just curious if you were able to get some " measurable "

confirmation of the reduction of your infectious load. That's the road I

was hoping to be able to take, testing, abx treatment and retesting...

Is there some reason why you have not retested for Mycos ?

Thanks ! Carole

--- In infections , " jellybelly92008 "

wrote:

> Sorry Carole, not lost just an easy question to answer the others are

harder and when I have the thought I have to write it down or it will

be gone.

> I have not been tested for Mycos again. I was tested for Lyme a

little over a year ago, within this period of low dose Mino... So I've

been on low dose ABX on and off for the last 4 years, but it had been a

real long time since I had been on any Mino when I was tested for Lyme,

probably close to a year. I still got a mildly positive result. I had

one band that was positive and is specific only for Lyme. Several other

Indeterminates which are positives in the eyes of a Lyme specialist.

> So I guess what you are asking is, what should our blood test look

like when we are totally well? The problem with that is with Lyme we

will never be totally well. We hope to go into remission, but can at any

time relapse, because there is no cure at this time. So there could or

could not be antibodies at any given time.

> Is that at all what you were looking for?

[Guest guest]

Kate, I think that the hypercoagulation factors into this heavily. I

don't know how familiar you are with hypercoagulation but it causes

a build up of fibrin which has been compared to Teflon. It coats

EVERYTHING, including pathogens. This fibrin makes it more difficult

for ABX to penetrate. It is a know fact that heparin potentates

medications. Bet you it is because the barrier is removed while on

heparin or other fibrin inhibitors.

Intersting point. Last time I had seen my dad, I took him to my doc

in San diego, and he was tested for hypercoagulation. Shortly

thereafter is when all hell broke loose in my life and I didn't get

my dads test results back until after he had died.

When they did an autopsy on his heart, they found a vegetation

growing on his heart valve. Vegetation was very well protected

though, with guess what? A heavy coat of fibrin. They were pumping

him full of ABX that couldn't reach the vegetation because of the

fibrin coating. That vegetaion was attached to the heart valve with

no fibrin in between so it was cozy in it's little cocoon eating

away at my dad's heart valve.

Months later, I tracked down my dad hypercoagulation test results

and he had extreme hypercoagulation. He suppuosedly had Lupus, but

we are all highly suspecting Lyme and hypercoagulation is found in

the vast majority of us. Actually it can be found in ALL chronic

illnesses.

One of my theories as to why I react to low dose Mino so strongly is

becaus e I have treated the hypercoagulation and continue with

natural maintenance. ABX have a clear shot to the pathogens and so

maybe I don't need massive amounts of ABX to do the job. If you are

coated in fibrin and you take 200 mgs. hopefully at least a little

bit will penetrate.

>

> > Penny, Penny, Penny, where on earth do you get that I started low

> > dose Mino AFTER I was already in remission???? I know I have

given a

> > lot of info and there is tons of stuff to read here so we have a

> > tendency to skim material. I wouldn't be telling you this, IF I

was

> > already in remission when starting the low dose Mino. I may be

brain

> > fogged, but not that brain fogged.

> >

> > I have been on low dose Mino for close to 4 years, that is not a

> > short time.

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly:

Yes, it is frustrating.

but sometimes you can find out what something is, by eliminating what

it is Not..

Barb

Jelly wrote:

Frustrating as all get up though that you are so convinced of what

it is " not " . Cause it really doesn't explain what is happening to me

and a handful of others. That is really what I want to know and why

I came to talk to all of you. Hopefully time will eventually give up

some answers.

[Guest guest]

Penny

well said

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

> > > who's

> > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> > > > basically

> > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> reading

> > > > stuff

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > stimulate

> > > > that

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> stimulating

> > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near

> the

> > > top

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't

get

> > well

> > > > > with

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks

or

> > > > cruches

> > > > > is

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing,

Its

> > > means

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

You really are embracing the jobs required to get well.

I found it fascinating that p[eople havinmg major problems getting

oxygen on Mt. everest due to altitude ilness develoiped all the

hallmarks of cfs. Bad cel;ls, dirty blood, bad oxygen circulation

equtes to all the ill health described on all the cfs forums.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of

> testimony's-

> >

> > > > > who's

> > > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-

this

> is

> > > > > > basically

> > > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about

> > > reading

> > > > > > stuff

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised.

> it's

> > > > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they

> > > > stimulate

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> > > stimulating

> > > > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was

> near

> > > the

> > > > > top

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

> > SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that

don't

> > get

> > > > well

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking

sticks

> > or

> > > > > > cruches

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right

thing,

> > Its

> > > > > means

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a

> candidate.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly

Look at your standed blood counts ones you accuymulate during normal

check ups and go have a look at the ones when you were so called

herxing and possably at ER.

I also proposed this same thing on the bagwahna dude(MP) that wants

us to take the cool aid and the low dose therapy and the first

person that had the 2 for compariosn was amazed.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >Barb

> > > > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of

> > testimony's-

> > >

> > > > > > who's

> > > > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-

> this

> > is

> > > > > > > basically

> > > > > > > > > > >another world far, far away- just something

about

> > > > reading

> > > > > > > stuff

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised.

> > it's

> > > > > > > > deceiving ...

> > > > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

> > > > > > tetracyclines

> > > > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when

they

> > > > > stimulate

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with

> > > > stimulating

> > > > > > > > > bacteria

> > > > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that

was

> > near

> > > > the

> > > > > > top

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER

> > > SAMPLES.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that

> don't

> > > get

> > > > > well

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking

> sticks

> > > or

> > > > > > > cruches

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > rigth thing.

> > > > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right

> thing,

> > > Its

> > > > > > means

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a

> > candidate.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hereditary coagulation disorders are a lot more involved than a build up of fibrin. If your blood isn't flowing, you're going to have problems. Fibrin, probably caused by infection, just mucks it up even worse. pennyjellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: Kate, I think that the hypercoagulation factors into this heavily. I don't know how familiar you are with hypercoagulation but it causes a build up of fibrin which has been compared to Teflon. It coats EVERYTHING, including pathogens. This fibrin

makes it more difficult for ABX to penetrate. It is a know fact that heparin potentates medications. Bet you it is because the barrier is removed while on heparin or other fibrin inhibitors.Intersting point. Last time I had seen my dad, I took him to my doc in San diego, and he was tested for hypercoagulation. Shortly thereafter is when all hell broke loose in my life and I didn't get my dads test results back until after he had died.When they did an autopsy on his heart, they found a vegetation growing on his heart valve. Vegetation was very well protected though, with guess what? A heavy coat of fibrin. They were pumping him full of ABX that couldn't reach the vegetation because of the fibrin coating. That vegetaion was attached to the heart valve with no fibrin in between so it was cozy in it's little cocoon eating away at my dad's heart valve.Months later, I tracked down my dad hypercoagulation

test results and he had extreme hypercoagulation. He suppuosedly had Lupus, but we are all highly suspecting Lyme and hypercoagulation is found in the vast majority of us. Actually it can be found in ALL chronic illnesses. One of my theories as to why I react to low dose Mino so strongly is becaus e I have treated the hypercoagulation and continue with natural maintenance. ABX have a clear shot to the pathogens and so maybe I don't need massive amounts of ABX to do the job. If you are coated in fibrin and you take 200 mgs. hopefully at least a little bit will penetrate.> > > Penny, Penny, Penny, where on earth do you get that I started low> > dose Mino AFTER I was already in remission???? I know I have given a> > lot of info and there is tons of stuff to read here so we have a> > tendency to skim material. I wouldn't be telling you this, IF I was> > already in remission when starting the low dose Mino. I may be brain> > fogged, but not that brain fogged.> >> > I have been on low dose Mino for close to 4 years,

that is not a> > short time.>

[Guest guest]

You know what, Tony? I develop altitude sickness very easily. Too easily. Definitely a link in the mechanism of that and chronic illness symptoms. I've researched this before, but can't really recall much. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: PennyYou really are embracing the jobs required to get well.I found it fascinating that p[eople havinmg major problems getting oxygen on Mt. everest due to altitude ilness develoiped all the hallmarks of cfs. Bad cel;ls, dirty blood, bad oxygen

circulation equtes to all the ill health described on all the cfs forums. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > > > > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of > testimony's-> > > > > > > who's > > > > > > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this > is > > > > > > basically > > > > > > > >

> >another world far, far away- just something about > > > reading > > > > > > stuff > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. > it's > > > > > > > deceiving ...> > > > > > > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose > > > > > tetracyclines > > > > > > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they > > > > stimulate > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with > > > stimulating > > > > > > > > bacteria > > > > > > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one

that was > near > > > the > > > > > top > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER > > SAMPLES.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't > > get > > > > well > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > > > > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks >

> or > > > > > > cruches > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > rigth thing.> > > > > > > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, > > Its > > > > > means > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > > > > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a > candidate.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>