Antibiotic Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

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" Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

Roach

for National Geographic News

May 16, 2005

Humans have been downing beer for millennia. In certain instances,

some drinkers got an extra dose of medicine, according to an analysis of

Nubian bones from Sudan in North Africa.

Armelagos is an anthropologist at Emory University in Atlanta,

Georgia. For more than two decades, he and his colleagues have studied

bones dated to between A.D. 350 and 550 from Nubia, an ancient kingdom

south of ancient Egypt along the Nile River.

The bones, the researchers say, contain traces of the antibiotic

tetracycline. Today tetracycline is used to treat ailments ranging from

acne flare-ups to urinary-tract infections. But the antibiotic only came

into commercial use half a century ago. So how did tetracycline get into

the Nubian bones?

Armelagos and his team say they found an answer in ancient beer. The

brew was made from grain contaminated with the bacteria streptomycedes,

which produces tetracycline.

The ancient Nubians, according to Armelagos, stored their grain in mud

bins. A soil bacteria, streptomycedes is ubiquitous in arid climates

like Sudan's.

" We looked at how the grain was used then and came across a recipe

for beer, " Armelagos said. The Nubians would make dough with the grain,

bake it briefly at a hot temperature, and then use it to make beer.

" We're not talking about Heineken or Bud Light. This was a thick gruel,

sort of a sour cereal, " he said.

Feel-Good Drink

According to Armelagos, the Nubians would drink the gruel and

probably allowed their children to eat what was left at the bottom of

the vat. Traces of tetracycline have been found in more than 90 percent

of the bones the team examined, including those of 24-month-old infants.

But did the Nubians know they were drinking beer contaminated with

tetracycline?

" They probably realized the alcohol made them feel better, but there is

a whole series of Egyptian pharmacopoeias [medicine books] that talk

about things beer can help with, " Armelagos said. (The ancient Nubians

had no written language but lived just south of the Egyptians who did.)

Armelagos said the Egyptians used beer as a gum-disease treatment,

a dressing for wounds, and even an anal fumigant—a vaporborne pesticide

to treat diseases of the anus. The anthropologist also believes the

tetracycline protected the Nubians from bone infections, as all the

bones he examined are infection free.

Charlie Bamforth, a professor of biochemistry and brewing science at the

University of California, , said that beer has been a staple of the

human diet for thousands of years and that the health benefits of beer

were likely known, even if not scientifically explained, in ancient

times.

" They must have consumed it because it was rather tastier than the grain

from which it was derived. They would have noticed people fared better

by consuming this product than they were just consuming the grain itself, "

he said.

######

" This is what is meant by " sacrifice " , literally, the " making sacred "

of an animal consumed for dinner. Yet sacrfice, because it dwells

on the death, is a concept often shocking to the secular modern

Western mind - to people who calmly organize daily hecatombs

of beasts, and who are among the most death-dealing carnivores

the world has ever seen. "

Margaret Visser: The Rituals of Dinner

[Guest guest]

> http://snipurl.com/f1me

>

>

> " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

> Roach

> for National Geographic News

> May 16, 2005

>

, thanks for posting.

i have some questions...

we are cautioned about drinking alcohol; it's supposed to upset the

intestinal flora, right?

well, these people seemed pretty healthy. maybe their beer, despite

its antibiotic effects, didn't kill their healthy gut bacteria?

or is this cuz the beer wasn't pasteurized?

speaking of which, does anyone know where i can get unpast. beer?

what brand?

we have a resaurant around here that has Schneider Weiss, a wheat

beer, on the menu, and they specify that it is unpast. But i can't

find it in any liquor stores.

when i'm in a restaurant and i ask the waiter, do you have any

unpast. beer? not one ever has ever known what the heck i was

talking about, and the bartenders don't either.

laura

[Guest guest]

> " They must have consumed it because it was rather tastier than the grain

>from which it was derived. They would have noticed people fared better

>by consuming this product than they were just consuming the grain itself, "

>he said.

>

>######

>

>

Aw come'on, who needs to notice that you feel better to

drink beer???? :--)

Interesting post! Add that one to the other bits about B vitamins

in beer, probiotic value of LF beer, bioavailability of minerals

in the yeast dregs, and all that good stuff that is in apples and

molasses and other ingredients ... hoist a cold one and be healthy!

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

:

>well, these people seemed pretty healthy. maybe their beer, despite

>its antibiotic effects, didn't kill their healthy gut bacteria?

Interestingly, most ferments DO contain antibiotics! Every

bacteria works to defend " it's turf " . Kimchi contains antibiotics,

as does kefir. Alcohol is an antibiotic produced by yeast. None

of these antibiotics kill *all* bacteria. They work against

certain types of bacteria. Low alcohol drinks and fermented

foods tend to kill the bacteria that make us sick, but they also

GIVE us bacteria that we need in our guts.

Now distilled alcohol is a different animal, and it may kill

gut bacteria, I don't know. But the kinds of beers they

are talking about here have very little alcohol.

>or is this cuz the beer wasn't pasteurized?

That and the beer is made with both bacteria AND yeast.

Modern beers are made only with yeast.

>speaking of which, does anyone know where i can get unpast. beer?

>what brand?

What you need is beer made with bacteria AND yeast, which isn't

sold in stores for the simple reason it doesn't keep well

on shelves. You can make it easy enough though (I think

there is a writup in the FILES section for kefir beer). You can

figure that anything a Nubian peasant in a mud hut can make,

you can make! Really, homebrewed probiotic beer is amazingly

good. Very healthy too. Besides the antibiotics, it is also

full of minerals and vitamin B, AND probiotics.

>we have a resaurant around here that has Schneider Weiss, a wheat

>beer, on the menu, and they specify that it is unpast. But i can't

>find it in any liquor stores.

>

>when i'm in a restaurant and i ask the waiter, do you have any

>unpast. beer? not one ever has ever known what the heck i was

>talking about, and the bartenders don't either.

There are a few, or were, back when I was drinking beer. It does

not keep well though, like I said. Turns to malt vinegar unless

it is kept cold. But except for Lambic Ale, none of them

are lacto fermented. Lambic Ale IS made with bacteria, but

it is amazingly expensive (and the ones you can buy are

pastuerized). I was soooo happy when I discovered I could

make my own version of Lambic Ale for pennies a bottle

and it even tastes better.

OK, so I'm not a monk and I don't have a picturesque barn

with cobwebs and old vats etc. All I have is a glass gallon

jug (or used to, now I'm using a $3.99 Sun Tea container

from Target, how chintzy is that?). And I have a hop vine

I bought for a few bucks online because I like hops, which

is currently growing up a length of rope we tied to an alder

tree.

Anyway, when I go to a bar I order red wine or fizz water:

I can't drink their beer. Now if they would only serve fried

anchovies ...

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Re: " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

>

>>we have a resaurant around here that has Schneider Weiss, a wheat

>>beer, on the menu, and they specify that it is unpast. But i can't

>>find it in any liquor stores.

>>

>>when i'm in a restaurant and i ask the waiter, do you have any

>>unpast. beer? not one ever has ever known what the heck i was

>>talking about, and the bartenders don't either.

>

>There are a few, or were, back when I was drinking beer. It does

>not keep well though, like I said. Turns to malt vinegar unless

>it is kept cold.

This is not true to my understanding. A local master brewer (who is on this

list, as a matter of fact) told me that MOST microbrews are by default

unpasteurized. They are ubiquitous around here and there is no warning that

they turn to malt liquor unless kept cold. As well, I've kept many sitting

around my house at room temp and it's never affected the quality if the

beer. They are just like pasteurized beers IME, except they invariably taste

better.

To be sure that any specific beer is unpasteurized, you have to check with

the brewery, though.

But except for Lambic Ale, none of them

>are lacto fermented. Lambic Ale IS made with bacteria, but

>it is amazingly expensive (and the ones you can buy are

>pastuerized).

I've never seen a pasteurized lambic ale - any particular brand you're

thinking of? AFAIK, all the lambic ales sold around here are unpasteurized.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Heidi:

>

> What you need is beer made with bacteria AND yeast, which isn't

> sold in stores for the simple reason it doesn't keep well

> on shelves. You can make it easy enough though (I think

> there is a writup in the FILES section for kefir beer). You can

> figure that anything a Nubian peasant in a mud hut can make,

> you can make! Really, homebrewed probiotic beer is amazingly

> good. Very healthy too. Besides the antibiotics, it is also

> full of minerals and vitamin B, AND probiotics.

Heidi, i checked the files under beverages; maybe you're thinking of

the rejuvelac? i would LOVE to make kefir beer, or whatever else.

i made kvass...it's almost a month now so i'm going to try it in a

few days. but it's light in color. i followed the recipe in NT with

the apples and raisins...anyone here ever make it, successfully?

>

> There are a few, or were, back when I was drinking beer. It does

> not keep well though, like I said. Turns to malt vinegar unless

> it is kept cold. But except for Lambic Ale, none of them

> are lacto fermented. Lambic Ale IS made with bacteria, but

> it is amazingly expensive (and the ones you can buy are

> pastuerized). I was soooo happy when I discovered I could

> make my own version of Lambic Ale for pennies a bottle

> and it even tastes better.

heidi how do you make lambic ale?

> OK, so I'm not a monk and I don't have a picturesque barn

> with cobwebs and old vats etc. All I have is a glass gallon

> jug (or used to, now I'm using a $3.99 Sun Tea container

> from Target, how chintzy is that?). And I have a hop vine

> I bought for a few bucks online because I like hops, which

> is currently growing up a length of rope we tied to an alder

> tree.

>

so i guess i need to start growing hops, for starters? where can i

get hops to grow?

Now if they would only serve fried

> anchovies ...

yikes, fried anchovies heidi? LOL

>

laura

[Guest guest]

>>There are a few, or were, back when I was drinking beer. It does

>>not keep well though, like I said. Turns to malt vinegar unless

>>it is kept cold.

>

>This is not true to my understanding. A local master brewer (who is on this

>list, as a matter of fact) told me that MOST microbrews are by default

>unpasteurized. They are ubiquitous around here and there is no warning that

>they turn to malt liquor unless kept cold. As well, I've kept many sitting

>around my house at room temp and it's never affected the quality if the

>beer. They are just like pasteurized beers IME, except they invariably taste

>better.

Hm ... that may be true, I haven't actually researched it. I can say that

when *I* make LF beer it doesn't keep well at all, and that's

what I've read about it. It could be they have better methods for

shipping it now (and it can be kept in fridges!) but for instance:

http://www.pist.ca/article.php/23fs

Like most Frenchmen, Pasteur preferred wine to beer. His first studies on

fermentation involved the wines of Arbois, where he discovered many of the

disease causing microbes that afflicted wines could be killed off by raising the

wine to a temperature of 50 or 60 degrees Celsius, thereby dramatically reducing

the amount lost to spoilage without affecting the aroma or taste. This is the

process known as pasteurization. Get it? Pasteur-ization?

At first, winemakers were leery of “cooking” their wine, but when they realized

the amount of profit they could keep from spoilage, most took up the practice.

The French drubbing at the hands of the Prussians turned his research toward

beer, as did his friend and colleague Pierre Bertin. Pasteur never liked the

taste of beer, but Bertin, who had taught and drank in the more

German-influenced city of Strasbourg, convinced him that France had some

catching up to do with regards to brewing. Bertin acted as Pasteur’s palate,

along with various other “experts” around the cafés of Paris.

Pasteur’s own aversion from beer didn’t keep him from impressing brewers with

his knowledge of their product. He astounded a group of London brewers he

visited by telling them a batch of porter was off after taking only one drop

and, rather than tasting it, examined it under a microscope. When he returned a

week later, they had purchased a microscope of their own.

The pasteurization process he invented was applied with equal success to beer.

The process allowed, among other things, the shipping of beers by train, thus

making Busch one of the first breweries to make strides toward national

distribution.

The beer we drink today owes much of its shelf life to a man who never cared for

it. So the next time you’re sitting down with a bottle of beer that doesn’t have

the same viscosity as ketchup, think fondly of Louis Pasteur, the reluctant

saviour of beer.

===================================

So if they don't need to pasteurize them these days, I wonder what changed?

Maybe better sanitation or better control over what gets into the beer in the

first place? I know they are using cultures rather than random microbes these

days (esp. for beer, which is boiled first) and wine is generally filtered, I

think. Maybe the lambic ale has just the right set of bacteria that it reaches

stasis nicely? I do know that every LF beer I've made has a very short shelf

life: it starts going bitter after a month or so, which is the problem the

British sailors had with beer too. Non-LF beer is a bit better, so maybe if you

are careful enough it keeps well enough for distribution? Or maybe the hops are

stronger these days?

Anyway, you are likely right about " true " microbrews ... a lot of beers I think

of as " not normal commercial beer " , like Guinness, aren't really microbrews

either, which I keep forgetting.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

laura:

>Heidi, i checked the files under beverages; maybe you're thinking of

>the rejuvelac? i would LOVE to make kefir beer, or whatever else.

Actually it was in the main directory ... it probably should not have been

but at the time people didn't look in the subdirectories. I moved it just now.

/files/Recipes-Beverages/

>i made kvass...it's almost a month now so i'm going to try it in a

>few days. but it's light in color. i followed the recipe in NT with

>the apples and raisins...anyone here ever make it, successfully?

All the ferments I've made with sugar/whey molded. Which is

why I started using kefir grains as a " starter " . YMMV! From

my beer making days, I think part of the issue is that you

need a slightly acidic environment to get things started and

my whey wasn't acidic enough. Kefir grains don't need

an acidic environment. Sandor Katz has some good recipes

that don't use starters though.

> heidi how do you make lambic ale?

Broadly speaking, lambic ale is a beer that has lactobacilli AND

yeast. So kefir beer is lambic ale, not a " true " beer in the

modern sense. A " modern " brewer eschews bacteria ... they

are considered an " infection " and one goes to great lengths

to get rid of them. The bacteria, you see, lower the alcohol

content (and if you get the wrong bacteria it can make really

lousy beer too!).

> yikes, fried anchovies heidi? LOL

Fried anchovies are a bar snack in the Philippines and some

other Asian countries. Major good calcium/mineral source!

Tasty too!

I just found out from someone that Tempura is often made

with the WHOLE shrimp. The shrimp heads get fried and come

out super-crispy, like potato chips. And people wonder how

the Asians get enough calcium ... !

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Now if they would only serve fried

>> anchovies ...

>

> yikes, fried anchovies heidi?

You must not be from around hyar, stranger.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

>

> Actually it was in the main directory ... it probably should not

have been

> but at the time people didn't look in the subdirectories. I moved

it just now.

>

> /files/Recipes-

Beverages/

Heidi, thanks. HOWEVER. that's not really beer, is it? i mean, you

can't just put some kefir grains in any sweet liquid and call

it 'beer', i mean, can you?

i LOVE kvass and beer and would like to make actual beer or beer-like

beverages.

> All the ferments I've made with sugar/whey molded.

heidi this happened to me the first time, too. sally said scrape it

off!!

what i do now, is, when a NT recipe calls for a 1/4 cup of whey;

first of all, i don't use cheese whey from my farmer anymore, it's

too 'dead' or something. i use the whey from the last batch of kefir

i made; fresh kefir whey is probably the most 'alive' whey you'll get.

second of all, instead of using the required 1/4 c whey, which never

works, i use whey for at least half if not most of the liquid.

that's the only 'whey' i could get my beet kvass to 'kvass' and

that's what i did with my regular kvass. i even let it go a day too

long before putting it in the big jar with the apples and raisins and

it still didn't mold.

i'll let you know what happens in a few days when i taste it.

laura

[Guest guest]

" This is not true to my understanding. A local master brewer (who is on this

list, as a matter of fact) told me that MOST microbrews are by default

unpasteurized. They are ubiquitous around here and there is no warning that

they turn to malt liquor unless kept cold. As well, I've kept many sitting

around my house at room temp and it's never affected the quality if the

beer. They are just like pasteurized beers IME, except they invariably taste

better. "

hmmm - that would be great, but that hasn't been my impression. From the

little I've read, most of the microbrews are pasteurized. The ones that are

not are most of the Trappist Belgian Ales - for instance, Chimay. After

drinking some of these, most of the micro brews taste, well, pasteurized...

But, I'll stress - I hope that what you say is correct, and I'm not an

expert. I'd be surprised though.

[Guest guest]

:

>Heidi, thanks. HOWEVER. that's not really beer, is it? i mean, you

>can't just put some kefir grains in any sweet liquid and call

>it 'beer', i mean, can you?

>

>i LOVE kvass and beer and would like to make actual beer or beer-like

>beverages.

I guess it depends how you define " beer " as to whether it is

" really beer " or not. Most cultures do in fact take some

sweet liquid, let it ferment with yeast and bacteria, and

the anthropologists call it " beer " (unless it has more

alcohol, then it is " wine " ). Kvass is considered a type of beer

by some folks.

Also, of course, it has to FERMENT. If you just stick a kefir

grain in sweet liquid and then drink it, it's just a sweet

liquid. After a few days or weeks of fermenting, it's beer!

After a couple of months, it's vinegar!

But if you mean " does it taste like modern beer " ... it does if you

add hops. Hops are what define modern beer, I think!

Also fizz ... you have to bottle condition it to get actual

fizz. As for " head " ... I'm still working on that. Beer gets it's

nice head from substances in barley and oats, and of course

I don't use those. But I've given bottles of my molasses kefir beer

to beer lovers and they say it tastes like a good porter.

When I use sorghum it tastes more like a light ale.

> what i do now, is, when a NT recipe calls for a 1/4 cup of whey;

>first of all, i don't use cheese whey from my farmer anymore, it's

>too 'dead' or something. i use the whey from the last batch of kefir

>i made; fresh kefir whey is probably the most 'alive' whey you'll get.

Yeah, I did that for a bit. Then it occurred to me it was easier to

toss a kefir grain in there, rather than strain the kefir to

make whey. But, like I always say, " whatever works " !

>second of all, instead of using the required 1/4 c whey, which never

>works, i use whey for at least half if not most of the liquid.

>that's the only 'whey' i could get my beet kvass to 'kvass' and

>that's what i did with my regular kvass. i even let it go a day too

>long before putting it in the big jar with the apples and raisins and

>it still didn't mold.

>

>i'll let you know what happens in a few days when i taste it.

Good luck!

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Also, of course, it has to FERMENT. If you just stick a kefir

> grain in sweet liquid and then drink it, it's just a sweet

> liquid.

Heidi, DUH, LOL!

> But if you mean " does it taste like modern beer " ... it does if you

> add hops.

Heidi, the first time i tasted kvass i thought it tasted like beer.

from what i know, kvass doesn't have hops in it, right?

Then it occurred to me it was easier to

> toss a kefir grain in there, rather than strain the kefir to

> make whey. But, like I always say, " whatever works " !

heidi, makes sense...i'll try it. so you think a kefir grain or two

is a pretty much universal substitute for whey? except for maybe

soaking grains overnight?

laura

[Guest guest]

> RE: " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

>

>

>Hm ... that may be true, I haven't actually researched it. I can say that

>when *I* make LF beer it doesn't keep well at all, and that's

>what I've read about it.

Doesn't " lacto fermented " refer to something fermented with whey? Or just

any lactic acid bacteria ferment?

In any case, are beers fermented with bacteria as well as yeast?

I'm just not clear on whether commercial beer is strictly a yeast ferment or

also a bacterial ferment.

<snip>

>

>So if they don't need to pasteurize them these days, I wonder what

>changed?

Maybe they never *needed* to pasteurize beer per se back then either. They

didn't *need* to pasteurize milk *per se* only the worst crappy,

disease-promoting milk that was coming out of the city dairies feeding

distillery waste to dairy cattle, which was making people sick.

Perhaps if you start with good quality ingredients with beer, as with milk,

then pasteurization is nothing but deleterious.

BTW, I also prefer unpasteurized wines. I've also never heard about them not

keeping as well as pasteurized wine.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze,

where can i buy unpasteurized wine? i thought it was a lost cause, or

i have to make it myself. i'm not interested in trying my hand at wine.

laura

>

> BTW, I also prefer unpasteurized wines. I've also never heard about

them not

> keeping as well as pasteurized wine.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

[Guest guest]

:

>Heidi, the first time i tasted kvass i thought it tasted like beer.

>from what i know, kvass doesn't have hops in it, right?

Well, like I said, what is " beer " is in the tastebuds of the drinker!

Fermented grains do taste beerlike ... so does fermented

apple juice, to my taste buds. But many people associate

the taste of beer with what turns out to be the taste of hops.

Kvass doesn't generally have hops in it (tho it could, if you

want).

Anyway, this is all a roundabout answer to your question,

" is it really beer " ? The only real answer is " What is beer to YOU? " .

I made homebrew for years and each batch was different

and homebrew beers have all kinds of ingredients ... there

isn't really a universal definition. You should make some

and see what flavor you like.

Now in Europe there IS an official definition of beer, the

" Rheinheitsgebot " , which states that to be BEER it has

to be made of barley, hops, and water, nothing more.

But that only applies if you want to sell beer!

> Then it occurred to me it was easier to

>> toss a kefir grain in there, rather than strain the kefir to

>> make whey. But, like I always say, " whatever works " !

>

>heidi, makes sense...i'll try it. so you think a kefir grain or two

>is a pretty much universal substitute for whey? except for maybe

>soaking grains overnight?

It works for me as a universal substitute. I use kimchi juice

when I need a liquid (though it DOES taste strong, so it

might not be good for soaking grains!). Personally I don't

eat grains much so I don't soak them, so that one hasn't

come up.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

>Doesn't " lacto fermented " refer to something fermented with whey? Or just

>any lactic acid bacteria ferment?

>

>In any case, are beers fermented with bacteria as well as yeast?

>

>I'm just not clear on whether commercial beer is strictly a yeast ferment or

>also a bacterial ferment.

Actually in commercial brewing, and home brewing, lactobacillus is considered

the Darth Vader Evil Invader and massive steps are taken to avoid it.

LB just about always infects beer unless you use lots of bleach.

I always wondered how they avoided it " in the old days " ! I mean, it was SOOO

much work to keep that evil LB out of our beer. Nowadays I DON'T CARE

and beer is so much easier!

Using whey, or kefir grains, is just a cheaty way to make sure you

get the RIGHT LB. Otherwise the quality of the batch is up for grabs.

In those old monastaries where they make Lambic Ale, they don't

even disturb the spiderwebs because they are afraid they will

disturb the local bacterial population. If you get the wrong LB

the beer can taste very very bad, or get slimy.

When you get LB in a yeast fermented beer, the alcohol content

goes down, and the beer doesn't keep as long. That is why LB

is considered evil by brewers.

>Maybe they never *needed* to pasteurize beer per se back then either. They

>didn't *need* to pasteurize milk *per se* only the worst crappy,

>disease-promoting milk that was coming out of the city dairies feeding

>distillery waste to dairy cattle, which was making people sick.

>Perhaps if you start with good quality ingredients with beer, as with milk,

>then pasteurization is nothing but deleterious.

Well, they DID want to, because the beer went sour too fast for sea

voyages. Sour beer doesn't kill you, but it doesn't taste

like fresh beer. The brewers were very, very happy with Pasteur at

the time, because they could make more profit and not throw so

many batches away. The article I linked to earlier gives the details.

As a homebrewer, I do sympathize with the brewers. Beer is not

like cow milk. It is BOILED to begin with, so all the native grain

bacteria are gone (which is probably a good thing, since ergot

would be among the native microbes). Then you add yeast

and hope the yeast kills any bad-tasting LB fast enough so

that you can drink the batch before it goes bad.

You don't need to pasteurize beer for home use,

because you typically drink it fast. In

Washington's home, they apparantly made 200 gallons

a MONTH of " small beer " (your LF beer) per MONTH

for the household.

>BTW, I also prefer unpasteurized wines. I've also never heard about them not

>keeping as well as pasteurized wine.

It probably keeps fine these days because 1. the alcohol content is way up there

nowadays (more so than in the past) and 2. It is microfiltered, which

removes the LB. Microfiltering is a cheaty way to pasteurize, without

the heat.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Who told you wine was pasteurized? Raw grapes or fruit is used and fermented

with differnt components and wine yeast. I have some raspberry wine I made and

it's almost done. Never heard of any good winery pasteurizing their wine.

K.C.

Re: " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

Suze,

where can i buy unpasteurized wine? i thought it was a lost cause, or

i have to make it myself. i'm not interested in trying my hand at wine.

laura

>

> BTW, I also prefer unpasteurized wines. I've also never heard about

them not

> keeping as well as pasteurized wine.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

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[Guest guest]

> Re: " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

>

>

>

>Suze,

>

>where can i buy unpasteurized wine? i thought it was a lost cause, or

>i have to make it myself. i'm not interested in trying my hand at wine.

>

>laura

>>

I don't know where *you* can buy it but I get it from a local wine and

cheese shop where the proprietor knows those kinds of details about the

wines he sells. I will ask him next time to recommend a few vintners who

don't pasteurize and let you know what he says.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

>> There are a few, or were, back when I was drinking beer. It does

>> not keep well though, like I said. Turns to malt vinegar unless

>> it is kept cold.

>

Suze:

> This is not true to my understanding. A local master brewer (who is on

> this

> list, as a matter of fact) told me that MOST microbrews are by default

> unpasteurized. They are ubiquitous around here and there is no warning

> that

> they turn to malt liquor unless kept cold. As well, I've kept many

> sitting

> around my house at room temp and it's never affected the quality if the

> beer. They are just like pasteurized beers IME, except they invariably

> taste

> better.

I think the vinegar bug needs air, right? It wouldn't get it in a

bottle (esp. with CO2 replacing the air at the top of the bottle).

Yes, microbrews will supposedly go " off " faster than pasteuriized, but

that " off " is more about skunkiness and sediment than vinegar; I've

never heard of unopened beer turning to vinegar. I've got some homebrew

stout over 5 yrs old that is still drinkable.

[Guest guest]

>

Heidi:

> So if they don't need to pasteurize them these days, I wonder what

> changed? Maybe better sanitation or better control over what gets into

> the beer in the first place?

That's a lot of it. Most beers now are made in closed stainless-steel

fermenters.

> I know they are using cultures rather than random microbes these days

> (esp. for beer, which is boiled first)

Right. One can buy yeast strains cultured for specific types of brew,

including the Belgian dual-fermented (saccharomyces and lactobacillus)

ales. There are only 2 commercial beer yeasts (S.cervesiae, the top

fermenting ale yeast, and S. Carlsbergiensis, the bottom-fermenting

lager yeast), but many strains of each with different characteristics.

I would assume the same is true of Lactobacillus.

> and wine is generally filtered, I think.

So is commercial beer...no yeast to go bitter (or provide B-vites)

> Maybe the lambic ale has just the right set of bacteria that it

> reaches stasis nicely? I do know that every LF beer I've made has a

> very short shelf life: it starts going bitter after a month or so,

> which is the problem the British sailors had with beer too. Non-LF

> beer is a bit better, so maybe if you are careful enough it keeps well

> enough for distribution? Or maybe the hops are stronger these days?

Or the beers...most of the Belgians are 5-6% alcohol or better, while a

straight LF brew inoculated with whey would only contain saccharomyces

as a contaminant. Alcohol IS a preservative.

[Guest guest]

Gene:

> From the

> little I've read, most of the microbrews are pasteurized.

Possibly the bottled ones, certainly not brewpub brew.

www.en.com/users/jaquick

" Electing Jimmy president was as close as the

American people have ever come to picking a name out of the phone book

and giving him the job. " -

[Guest guest]

Suze:

> Doesn't " lacto fermented " refer to something fermented with whey? Or

> just

> any lactic acid bacteria ferment?

>

> In any case, are beers fermented with bacteria as well as yeast?

>

Not in general. Belgian traditional ales are.

> I'm just not clear on whether commercial beer is strictly a yeast

> ferment or

> also a bacterial ferment.

>

Yeast only

[Guest guest]

RE: " Antibiotic " Beer Gave Ancient Africans Health Buzz

Gene:

> From the

> little I've read, most of the microbrews are pasteurized.

" Possibly the bottled ones, certainly not brewpub brew. "

Right. I meant the bottled ones.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Tinybabe " <tinybabe2@r...>

wrote:

> Who told you wine was pasteurized? Raw grapes or fruit is used and

fermented with differnt components and wine yeast. I have some

raspberry wine I made and it's almost done. Never heard of any good

winery pasteurizing their wine.

>

> K.C.

hi KC,

i thought all wine was pasteurized...somehow i picked up on this when i

joined wapf. someone here will sort this out for us.

laura in nj