Re: What is a Herheimer reaction?

[Guest guest]

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6412/herxheimer.htm

Herxheimer (aka " detox " ) reaction is a flu-like feeling that one

gets when parasites, fungi, bacteria, viruses, and other pathogens

are killed in the body, by conventional or alternative means. One

person who suffers chronic candida (yeast infection) and has

experienced the reaction many times made the remark, " Got my typical

Herx reaction: cold, dizzy, light-headed, faint, can't-really-think-

straight feeling. " Others describe it as a " bone-tired feeling. " If

a treatment is particularly effective, the onset of the herxheimer

can begin within a couple of hours of exposure.

Muscle and joint pain become more pronounced. Reactions typically

last up to two days but can last longer if steps are not taken. When

the kidneys, liver, colon, and lymph are working effectively and

there is plenty of water, minerals, antioxidants, and other

nutrients, the reaction will be unnoticed for most minor infections.

Treatments which can kill pathogens should not be resumed until the

reaction has passed, except in rare cases.

Physiological effects of a herx include an increase in uric acid,

which is neutralized by the body by giving up base minerals like

calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium. Urine output is increased

by the body to clean the kidneys, and this dehydrates and also

depletes minerals, like the ones above and selenium, all which are

important in regulating heart function. This dehydration and

electrolyte imbalance is likely the main culprit for most of the

symptoms.

Until the body has recovered, antipathogenic treatments can not be

continued or the load will build up and make it that much worse. If

one is fighting a pathogen which requires treatment every three days

and is not taking steps to minimize detox such that four days or

more are required to recover, it is of no use to continue treatment.

Hopefully this illustrates how very important it is to control detox

reactions.

Summary of necessary supplements from Electroherbalism Cancer

Regimen, and is appropriate for treatment of most maladies.The

following MUST be taken in sufficient amounts to be able to

withstand therapeutic use of a Bare-Rife generator without side

effects. It is best to start at least two days before treatment

commences. It is also advised to eat adequate protein and (good)

fats, plus plenty of non-starchy vegetables.

Magnesium - 100 to 250% RDA per day. Oxide form is laxative, but

very inexpensive. Use if there is elimination difficulty. Chelate

forms like AA chelate, citrate, asportate, etc, are not as laxative,

and should be used if there is diarrhea. Use less if loose stool

persists and is not welcome

.. Calcium - 50-150% RDA per day. Carbonate form can cause hard

stools, but can be used with magnesium oxide to balance if money is

short. Best are chelate forms like asorbate, citrate, AA chelate,

but carbonate form is best if there is excess stomach acid.

The preceding two supplements are typically available together in a

cal-mag supplement. Two with a 1:1 ratio of cal-mag are Solaray Cal-

Mag Citrate (contains some magnesium oxide),= and Country Life

Calcium Magnesium Potassium (all chelates). Use this type if is

there is any elimination difficulty. If stool is typically too

loose, use a 2:1 ratio chelated cal-mag like Solaray Calcium

Magnesium or Country Life Calcium Magnesium Complex.

Sodium - up to 100% RDA per day in diet. Do not use a low sodium

diet unless necessary. KAL Real Salt is the best salt product to use.

Potassium - at least 100% RDA in diet. Found in most fruit and

vegetables and also in No Salt, which is potassium chloride. If not

enough is eaten, consider using potassium citrate.

Water - at least 1/2 gallon per day. Use carbon filter tap or

pitcher water as from a Brita, Rubbermaid, Pur, etc.

High potency multivitamin which includes 400IU vitamin E, 25000IU

beta carotene / vitamin A activity, 70-200mcg selenium and chromium,

and 100% RDA or more biotin and folic acid, like VegLife Multi

(small caplets), Nature's Way Daily Two, or Twinlab Daily Two.

Optional Cleanser. Use if the above supplements do not prevent detox

reaction. Choose one or more of the following: Essiac tea, kombucha

tea, Euroalt tea, Planetary Formula's Stone Free, Nature's Herbs

Dandelion Goldenseal, Nature's Herbs Dandelion Yellowdock, Nature's

Herbs Dandelion Goldenseal, Nature's Way KB, s KID, Naturol

Diurtabs. Do not use more than one strong diuretic. Use less if

there is too much pressure in kidney or bladder.

An inexpensive, easy, and effective plan for cleansing is to

dissolve 4 Stone Free tablets in 2 quarts of water. Drink throughout

the day. If this is not enough action, take up to half recommended

dosage tablets along with it. Chew fennel seeds to improve the

action of the turmeric (in Stone Free) and to prevent stomach upset

or acid indigestion, if desired. Use of Stone Free is highly

recommended since it is an effective liver cleanser as well as a

highly regarded lymph and kidney supplement. It is also a good

antioxidant, such that the supplement below will probably not be

needed.

Optional Antioxidant. Use an antioxidant/antiinflammatory if any

swelling results which is not caused by edema (water retention) or

controlled by above supplements. Stone Free contains turmeric, one

of the best antioxidants for the money, and in addition to the ones

included in the multivitamin, should be plenty for most purposes. If

more action is needed, the following are all good. Choose one: cat's

claw, Now Boswellin (mostly curcumin, which is turmeric extract),

bromelain/vitamin C/quercetin combination, pau d'arco, grape seed

extract. Kitchen herbs may also be used as discussed in

Electroherbalism regimen.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, that's the problem. All kinds of suppositions just like this by many speculative health care providers, often alternative ones who don't have a good basis in science. If you notice, they're always filled with numerous "mays" and "seems" and "perhaps". That's fine. What isn't fine is when the speculation becomes gospel, and translates to people thinking that feeling bad is ALWAYS a herx and always good, which is simply not true. This thinking actually encourages people to make themselves sicker in the name of Jarish Herxheimer based on a theory of "no pain/no gain" which wasn't what Herxheimer was saying. We should be looking to real infectious disease docs for our information, who have many thousands of hours of experience with infectious reactions of all kinds, including real herxes and adverse reactions to ineffective drugs. pennyjellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: I think I have got a pretty good handle on what a herx is. My understnding of it comes from in part the RBF which says:"the Jarisch -Herxheimer, or Herxheimer reaction, was named for the German dermatologist, Karl Herxheimer (1844-1947). Dorlands Medical Dictionary refers to the Herxheimer reaction as a transient, short-term, immunological reaction commonly seen following antibiotic treatment of early and later stage [infectious] diseases which [may be] manifested by fever,

chills, headache, myalgias (muscle pain), and exacerbations of cutaneous lesions. The reaction has been attributed to liberation of endotoxins-like substances or of antigens (a substance which causes an immune reaction) from the killed or dying microorganisms."Interesting to note though is Herxheimer died in 1947. That is a loooong time ago and there has been learned just in the past 10 years in reagrds to some organisms he never heard of. Some of these organisms weren't even understood until now in that they morph and become things no one was even looking for before. How they survive is a mystery that is just being unraveled.I think Mr. Herx is talking about orgaisms that are more typically seen, that usually are dead and gone in a few days, so the herx ends in a few days. Thing different is, these creatures don't die so easy. They have a strategy and don't give in. Hence the battle in which they

continue to die goes on for months and at times years, so heck ya, the herx is going to last for longer then a few days. As long as there are dead and decaying little bodies, there will be toxins and so there will be this herxheimer reaction. Herxheimer info continued: "What does this mean in layman's terms? The Herxheimer flare reaction may be the first indication that the antibiotic is reaching its target and is therefore considered a good sign. In his original book, The Road Back, the late McPherson Brown, MD noted that the reaction caused a temporary worsening of symptoms.The amount of medication may be directly related to the intensity of the flare. Medications which have no effect on mycoplasma (or other microbes) do not provoke this reaction nor do these medications generally have a favorable long-term effect on the disease. Unlike the RA flare, which can last for weeks or even months, the

Herxheimer flare reaction is often of short duration. (Scleroderma patients who do not exhibit inflammatory components to their disease generally do not report a Herxheimer of clinical significance.)Large doses of antibiotics may initially caused a worsening or flare reaction in many of the rheumatic diseases. The rheumatic diseases which are most hypersensitive (rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, psoriatic arthritis, etc.) have shown similar, distinct and often severe flare reactions from even a low dose of antibiotic. According to Dr. Brown, when the resulting released toxins go to the joints, joint pain is the result; when they go to the brain, depression may result.Dr. Brown found the Herxheimer effect showed a number of important principles at work. It demonstrated that the disease was a hypersensitive reaction, not to the drug itself, but to the toxins that a microbe creates in response to the drug's

presence. And, it opened the way to a chemical attack (with medications) on the whole area of arthritis and rheumatic diseases.Dr. Brown found that rheumatic diseases are often associated with a high degree of tissue sensitivity. It was soon observed that a more potent antibiotic would produce a more marked flare reaction because of this tissue sensitivity. By keeping the dosage low, it was possible to gradually remove the microorganisms from the tissues without causing major clinical worsening of the disease. If these microorganisms were truly present and responsible for the hypersensitivity reaction, long term, low dose treatment would result in clinical improvement of symptoms in patients.Dr. Brown recognized he was not dealing with an ordinary infectious problem where microbial invasion was the prominent feature. The reaction of the patient to the infectious organism was as important as the organism

itself. In the historical protocol as determined by Dr. Brown, the use of low dosage cortisone in conjunction with the antibiotics, either prevented or modified such flare reactions. Chemical worsening of the blood figures in lab testing was not generally noticeable until much larger doses of the antibiotics were given. Usually the first clinical changes to occur are those of lessening of the duration of morning stiffness. In many patients under long term management, the morning stiffness disappears altogether.When the severity of the arthritic condition begins to lessen, either from a spontaneous improvement or as a result of the continued treatment with a carefully measured dose of antibiotic, a greater tolerance of the antibiotic is generally noticed and larger doses are tolerated without the return of the Herxheimer flare reaction. If the dose has been increased too rapidly at any time, the initial

flare reaction may occur again. However, some patients need to remain on a low, intermittent dose and respond well.The standard prescription for antibiotic use in non-rheumatic diseases is a high dose for a short period of time. The overall guidelines for rheumatic diseases for avoiding too severe a Herxheimer flare are dependent on careful use of low dose and attention to frequency of administration. This treatment methodology calls for low dose antibiotics prescribed over a long period of time-- a very different protocol than usual for the prescribing of antibiotics.TREATING THE FLARESince the Herxheimer is a drug related flare, treating the symptoms and allowing the flare to run its course will enable the antibiotic to attack the offending microorganism and hasten recovery. Treat the pain symptoms with pain medications which don't block the effect of the antibiotic and which don't suppress the

immune system ( i.e.: not high doses of steroids.) The pain of the Herxheimer will diminish as the reaction runs its course, making the need for pain medications or those which address increased inflammation less needed over time. Remember, a Herxheimer is a reaction to the effects of an antibiotic on the microorganism causing the disease, while an RA flare is a worsening of disease.