Re: Looking for THINKERS and I know you are here (Jelly & Per- Low dose)

[Guest guest]

Per:

Low-dose therapy is used in a few conditions.

What we call low dose is important though, because the DOSE will

determine if it kills bacteria, keeps them im colony form, or is SO

low that there isn't any antimicrobial effect what so ever.

In the immunosuppressed, where bacteria has to be controlled, the

lowest dose possible is found, and that is gievn as infrequently as

possible.

See reference 1

In other conditions, with low doses, that are UNDER the threshold that

does anything to bacteria- it's the enzyme inhibitory effects of the

abx that's helping. And there are drugs being developed based on the

tetrcycline family that retain the inhibitory effects, and totally

lack the antimicrobial effects.

So- in essence - I think different things happen at different doses..

and it's all NOT about killing bacteria and herxing. Without further

researching I do not know where the cutt-offs are with dose, but the

low dose for mouth disorders is about 20 mg... so a 3 mg dose isn't

going to have any anti-microbial properties... but who knows- maybe

it inhibits MMPS even at that dose.

See refernce 2 on enzyme inhibition

Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 1992 October; 36(10): 2328–2330.

Low-dose trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole alone and in association with

zidovudine for prevention and treatment of murine Pneumocystis

carinii pneumonia.

M Brun-Pascaud, P M Girard, and J J Pocidalo

Institut National de la Santé et de la Recherche Médicale, U. 13,

Hôpital Claude Bernard, Paris, France.

Low-dose trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (TMP-SMX) alone was found to

be as effective as low-dose TMP-SMX plus zidovudine and standard-dose

TMP-SMX alone in preventing and treating Pneumocystis carinii

pneumonia (PCP) in an immunosuppressed-rat model. Zidovudine alone

had no preventive or curative effect on PCP. We conclude that the

initially reported reduced incidence of PCP in human immunodeficiency

virus-infected patients treated with zidovudine alone is not due to

anti-P. carinii activity of zidovudine. Furthermore, the clinical

efficacy of low-dose TMP-SMX for the prevention and treatment of PCP

should be further investigated

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=245497

REFERENCE 2

J Periodontol. 2004 Mar;75(3):453-63

Subantimicrobial dose doxycycline efficacy as a matrix

metalloproteinase inhibitor in chronic periodontitis patients is

enhanced when combined with a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug.

Lee HM, Ciancio SG, Tuter G, ME, Komaroff E, Golub LM.

Department of Oral Biology and Pathology, School of Dental Medicine,

State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, NY 11794,

USA.

BACKGROUND: Administration of subantimicrobial dose doxycycline (SDD)

to chronic periodontitis (CP) patients has repeatedly been found to

reduce mammalian collagenase and other matrix metalloproteinase (MMP)

activity in gingival tissues and crevicular fluid, in association

with clinical efficacy, without the emergence of antibiotic-resistant

bacteria either orally or extra-orally. More recently, SDD adjunctive

to repeated mechanical debridement resulted in dramatic clinical

improvement in patients (>50% smokers) with generalized aggressive

periodontitis. As an additional pharmacologic approach, non-steroidal

anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) can reduce gingival inflammation and

alveolar bone resorption, at least under experimental conditions. In

the current study, we determined the effect of administering a

combination (combination) of these two host-modulating drugs (SDD

plus low-dose NSAID) to CP patients, on selected neutral proteinases

in gingiva, enzymes believed to mediate periodontal breakdown.

Earlier preliminary studies in humans with bullous pemphigoid, which

is also associated with excessive levels of host-derived proteinases

including MMPs, indicated improved clinical efficacy of combination

therapy. METHODS: Nineteen CP patients, scheduled for mucoperiosteal

flap surgery bilaterally in the maxillary arch, were randomly

distributed into three experimental groups administered either 1) low-

dose flurbiprofen (LDF) alone, 50 mg q.d.; 2) SDD (20 mg b.i.d.)

alone; or 3) a combination of SDD plus LDF (combination). The

gingival tissues were biopsied during surgery from right and left

maxillary posterior sextants, before and after a 3-week regimen of

medication, respectively. The tissues were then extracted, the

extracts partially purified, then analyzed for the endogenous

proteinase inhibitor, alpha1-PI, and its breakdown product, and for

host-derived matrix metalloproteinases (i.e., collagenases,

gelatinases) and neutrophil elastase activities. RESULTS: Short-term

therapy with SDD alone produced a significant reduction and LDF alone

produced no reduction in host-derived neutral proteinases. However,

the combination therapy produced a statistically significant

synergistic reduction of collagenase, gelatinase, and serpinolytic

(alpha1-PI degrading) activities (69%, 69%, and 75% reductions,

respectively) and a lesser reduction of the serine proteinase,

elastase (46%). CONCLUSIONS: Consistent with previous studies on

animal models of chronic destructive disease (e.g., rheumatoid

arthritis), the SDD and NSAID combination therapy synergistically

suppressed MMP and other neutral proteinases in the gingiva of CP

patients. A mechanism, suggested by earlier animal studies, involves

the NSAID, in the combination regimen, increasing the uptake of the

tetracycline-based MMP inhibitor in the inflammatory lesion, thus

synergistically enhancing the efficacy of this medication.

Publication Types:

Clinical Trial

Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 15088884 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

Barb

I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's

actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is basically

another world far, far away- just something about reading stuff that

is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's deceiving ...

I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines

because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate that they

BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating bacteria

by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top of the

list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

>

> Per:

>

> Low-dose therapy is used in a few conditions.

> What we call low dose is important though, because the DOSE will

> determine if it kills bacteria, keeps them im colony form, or is

SO

> low that there isn't any antimicrobial effect what so ever.

>

> In the immunosuppressed, where bacteria has to be controlled, the

> lowest dose possible is found, and that is gievn as infrequently

as

> possible.

> See reference 1

>

> In other conditions, with low doses, that are UNDER the threshold

that

> does anything to bacteria- it's the enzyme inhibitory effects of

the

> abx that's helping. And there are drugs being developed based on

the

> tetrcycline family that retain the inhibitory effects, and totally

> lack the antimicrobial effects.

>

> So- in essence - I think different things happen at different

doses..

> and it's all NOT about killing bacteria and herxing. Without

further

> researching I do not know where the cutt-offs are with dose, but

the

> low dose for mouth disorders is about 20 mg... so a 3 mg dose

isn't

> going to have any anti-microbial properties... but who knows-

maybe

> it inhibits MMPS even at that dose.

>

> See refernce 2 on enzyme inhibition

>

>

>

>

> Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 1992 October; 36(10): 2328–2330.

>

> Low-dose trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole alone and in association

with

> zidovudine for prevention and treatment of murine Pneumocystis

> carinii pneumonia.

> M Brun-Pascaud, P M Girard, and J J Pocidalo

>

> Institut National de la Santé et de la Recherche Médicale, U. 13,

> Hôpital Claude Bernard, Paris, France.

>

> Low-dose trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (TMP-SMX) alone was found

to

> be as effective as low-dose TMP-SMX plus zidovudine and standard-

dose

> TMP-SMX alone in preventing and treating Pneumocystis carinii

> pneumonia (PCP) in an immunosuppressed-rat model. Zidovudine alone

> had no preventive or curative effect on PCP. We conclude that the

> initially reported reduced incidence of PCP in human

immunodeficiency

> virus-infected patients treated with zidovudine alone is not due

to

> anti-P. carinii activity of zidovudine. Furthermore, the clinical

> efficacy of low-dose TMP-SMX for the prevention and treatment of

PCP

> should be further investigated

>

> http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=245497

>

> REFERENCE 2

> J Periodontol. 2004 Mar;75(3):453-63

> Subantimicrobial dose doxycycline efficacy as a matrix

> metalloproteinase inhibitor in chronic periodontitis patients is

> enhanced when combined with a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug.

>

> Lee HM, Ciancio SG, Tuter G, ME, Komaroff E, Golub LM.

>

> Department of Oral Biology and Pathology, School of Dental

Medicine,

> State University of New York at Stony Brook, Stony Brook, NY

11794,

> USA.

>

> BACKGROUND: Administration of subantimicrobial dose doxycycline

(SDD)

> to chronic periodontitis (CP) patients has repeatedly been found

to

> reduce mammalian collagenase and other matrix metalloproteinase

(MMP)

> activity in gingival tissues and crevicular fluid, in association

> with clinical efficacy, without the emergence of antibiotic-

resistant

> bacteria either orally or extra-orally. More recently, SDD

adjunctive

> to repeated mechanical debridement resulted in dramatic clinical

> improvement in patients (>50% smokers) with generalized aggressive

> periodontitis. As an additional pharmacologic approach, non-

steroidal

> anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) can reduce gingival inflammation

and

> alveolar bone resorption, at least under experimental conditions.

In

> the current study, we determined the effect of administering a

> combination (combination) of these two host-modulating drugs (SDD

> plus low-dose NSAID) to CP patients, on selected neutral

proteinases

> in gingiva, enzymes believed to mediate periodontal breakdown.

> Earlier preliminary studies in humans with bullous pemphigoid,

which

> is also associated with excessive levels of host-derived

proteinases

> including MMPs, indicated improved clinical efficacy of

combination

> therapy. METHODS: Nineteen CP patients, scheduled for

mucoperiosteal

> flap surgery bilaterally in the maxillary arch, were randomly

> distributed into three experimental groups administered either 1)

low-

> dose flurbiprofen (LDF) alone, 50 mg q.d.; 2) SDD (20 mg b.i.d.)

> alone; or 3) a combination of SDD plus LDF (combination). The

> gingival tissues were biopsied during surgery from right and left

> maxillary posterior sextants, before and after a 3-week regimen of

> medication, respectively. The tissues were then extracted, the

> extracts partially purified, then analyzed for the endogenous

> proteinase inhibitor, alpha1-PI, and its breakdown product, and

for

> host-derived matrix metalloproteinases (i.e., collagenases,

> gelatinases) and neutrophil elastase activities. RESULTS: Short-

term

> therapy with SDD alone produced a significant reduction and LDF

alone

> produced no reduction in host-derived neutral proteinases.

However,

> the combination therapy produced a statistically significant

> synergistic reduction of collagenase, gelatinase, and serpinolytic

> (alpha1-PI degrading) activities (69%, 69%, and 75% reductions,

> respectively) and a lesser reduction of the serine proteinase,

> elastase (46%). CONCLUSIONS: Consistent with previous studies on

> animal models of chronic destructive disease (e.g., rheumatoid

> arthritis), the SDD and NSAID combination therapy synergistically

> suppressed MMP and other neutral proteinases in the gingiva of CP

> patients. A mechanism, suggested by earlier animal studies,

involves

> the NSAID, in the combination regimen, increasing the uptake of

the

> tetracycline-based MMP inhibitor in the inflammatory lesion, thus

> synergistically enhancing the efficacy of this medication.

>

> Publication Types:

> Clinical Trial

> Randomized Controlled Trial

>

> PMID: 15088884 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

[Guest guest]

dumbaussie2000 wrote:

>Barb

>I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's

>actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is basically

>another world far, far away- just something about reading stuff that

>is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's deceiving ...

>I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines

>because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate that they

>BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating bacteria

>by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top of the

>list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

>

>

>

>

The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well with the

current way of thinking,

Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or cruches is the

rigth thing.

This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means that

somethings must be done differnently to allow

for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

[Guest guest]

OK I just read the tetracycline Kd paper I cited. It reviews very

wide-ranging Kd values from the lit (shame shame!). I dont know if a

consensus on the real Kd has been reached since then. Without one, I

cant make the calculuation I discussed, hence I cant opine on

whether 3 mg of mino could cause herx.

I messed something up in my discussion. The Kd or Ki is the

concentration of tetracycline in a solution, at which half of the

ribosomes in that solution hold bound tetracycline. Tetracycline

binds at a site where a tRNA is supposed to bind. tRNA has its own

affinity and hence its own Kd for the same site. Thus, when tRNA is

present in a solution along with the Kd concentration of

tetracycline, many fewer than half of the ribosomes are occupied by

tetracycline, because tRNA competes for the same site. The

concentration of tetracycline that blocks tRNA binding (and hence

protein sythesis) by 50% is NOT the Kd. It is a higher value and is

called the IC50.

Its near the IC50 - NOT near the Kd as I mistakenly wrote - that

relatively small variations in the concentration of the drug have

relatively large effects on its actual power to inhibit protein

synthesis.

Scope the last graph in this paper to understand what I'm talking

about. There you see the effects of a way broad range of macrolide

concentrations (ranging over 100,000,000-fold) on synthesis of a

small protein. Yet all the significant variation in protein

synthesis took place between 0.2 uM and 1.1 uM, a pretty small

range. If you move the drug concentration from one side of that

range to another, the effect on protein synthesis inhibition will be

huge. Move the drug concentration from one point outside this range

to another point outside this range - even one differing by 100-fold

- and nothing happens.

[Guest guest]

" Scope the last graph in this paper to understand what I'm [...] "

This paper:

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/279/51/53506.pdf

[Guest guest]

Yes, I can conceed , without proof, that tiny doses (>5mg) might have

some inhibition qualities and it might make someone feel better (for

all the reasons I stated in my previous posts) , but not becuase you're

killing anything and causing a herx.

PER WROTE:

The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well with the

current way of thinking,

Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or cruches is the

rigth thing.

This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means that

somethings must be done differnently to allow

for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

[Guest guest]

Per

As a group we are here to come up with the best combinations of

traetments to help one and all get better- AND MOST IMPORTAMNTLY TO

MAKE THE POINT THAT YOU HAVE TO TREAT THE SEVERITY OF YOUR OWN

PROBLEMS- NO-ONE IS GUARANTEED SUCCESS EVEN WHEN DOING CHAEMO IN

CANCER. BUT IMPORTANTLY EVEN THEY ARE UNDERSTANDING THAT BEING AS

AGRESSIVE AS POSSABLE AS EARLY AS POSSABLE HAS MORE SUCCESFUL

OUTCOMES.

tHE LOW DOSE IS A BEAUTIFULL THING TO BE DOING AS OPPOSED to people

on forums still wanting with a passion to be recognised as ill.I

just have a huge problem in possably 50 % of people that what they

are attempting is backfiring and possably doing more harm than good.

For the well read herx crowd can you please explain why I start

herxing with an antibiotic yet as soon as I pump in the drugs I feel

better SHOULDN'T I FEEL WORSE?????BASICALLY STARTING TO GET ILL AND

YOU ADD THE DRUGS THAT STARTED THE PROCESS AND THEN YOU REVERSE THE

PROCESS- SOMETHING 'S NOT RIGHT IN MR HERXES LAB.

Thinking back i feel doing the minocycline did me no good as it put

an extra load on my vascular system which really complained

loadly.That is when your talking pushing towards crutches.

tony

>

> >Barb

> >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's

> >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is basically

> >another world far, far away- just something about reading stuff

that

> >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's deceiving ...

> >I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines

> >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate that

they

> >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating

bacteria

> >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top of

the

> >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well with

the

> current way of thinking,

> Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or cruches is

the

> rigth thing.

> This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means

that

> somethings must be done differnently to allow

> for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, are you saying this happens to you?

" For the well read herx crowd can you please explain why I start

herxing with an antibiotic yet as soon as I pump in the drugs I feel

better SHOULDN'T I FEEL WORSE?????BASICALLY STARTING TO GET ILL AND

YOU ADD THE DRUGS THAT STARTED THE PROCESS AND THEN YOU REVERSE THE

PROCESS- SOMETHING 'S NOT RIGHT IN MR HERXES LAB. "

If so, this is exactly a problem I see. You should not feel

immediatly better when taking ABX. If you do, then a die off is not

happening. In mmy opinion and there are others, all that has been

achieved is that you have sent these seriously smart little

creatures running for cover. They are going to do whatever they can

to survive. Dormancy is one of their defence mechanisms.

> >

> > >Barb

> > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's

> > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is basically

> > >another world far, far away- just something about reading stuff

> that

> > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

deceiving ...

> > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines

> > >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate that

> they

> > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating

> bacteria

> > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top

of

> the

> > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well

with

> the

> > current way of thinking,

> > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or cruches

is

> the

> > rigth thing.

> > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means

> that

> > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly said:

>If so, this is exactly a problem I see. You should not feel

>immediatly better when taking ABX. If you do, then a die off is not

>happening.

***** It depends on the bacteria being killed.

You can have a big die off of certain gram positive bacteria and feel

immediately great.

Barb

[Guest guest]

Jelly

I don't think anything or anyone runs for cover or hides. I believe

that with ilnesses of this magnitude 'repeat MAGNITUDE' every cell

in your body is almost infected.You have got your largest organ your

skin in a state that's possably harbouring a trillion organisms and

releasing them or multiplying from them when the characteristics of

bacteria are met-environemnt-nutrition- gases.

You gotta read carefully between the lines with these autoimmune

infections instead of jumping to conclusions. In your own case you

didn't sweat then you improved and swaeting and other functions

started to work again.

You will also notice that a young man on the other forum passed away

recently from heart disease- this is graphic when viewed, NOTHING

HIDES..There's just unfortunately a state of affairs from the

medical establishment that isn't viewing chronic conditions as

serious or anything needs doing.

> > >

> > > >Barb

> > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's

> > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

basically

> > > >another world far, far away- just something about reading

stuff

> > that

> > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> deceiving ...

> > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines

> > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate

that

> > they

> > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating

> > bacteria

> > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top

> of

> > the

> > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well

> with

> > the

> > > current way of thinking,

> > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or

cruches

> is

> > the

> > > rigth thing.

> > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means

> > that

> > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You lost me there Aussie. I am talking about the bacteria hiding,

not people, what are you talking about? What does the medical

establisment have to do with whether or not we herx. You lost me.

When we don't herx on massive ABX, then this tells me that these

organisms have gone into a form that the ABX are not effective

against, like a cyst. OR another theory that may play into this, is

that there is so much fibrin buildup coating these bacteria tht ABX

can not penetrate. Maybe it is a combo of both.

I agree that they are in every cell. I always have said, even before

I knew what the problem was that nothing worked qute right. It

worked, but just barely. I've heard things like EKG looks

normal....kind of.

Yes, I heard of 's death. I have known him for several years.

He landed on my board some time ago and was so ready to cure us all.

Wanted to take over my board and make it big, real big. I was so

very sorry to hear of that news. Was it finally determined it was

his heart. I heard lots of possibilities, but nothing definitive

because autopsy results were not in. Have we gotten the results from

that?

> > > >

> > > > >Barb

> > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's-

who's

> > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is

> basically

> > > > >another world far, far away- just something about reading

> stuff

> > > that

> > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's

> > deceiving ...

> > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose

tetracyclines

> > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate

> that

> > > they

> > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating

> > > bacteria

> > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the

top

> > of

> > > the

> > > > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well

> > with

> > > the

> > > > current way of thinking,

> > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or

> cruches

> > is

> > > the

> > > > rigth thing.

> > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its

means

> > > that

> > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow

> > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jelly, it's just not true. Sometimes large doses of abx make a very sick person feel better immediately. Abx can cure a very sick patient in no time. Why do you think penicillin was such an exciting breakthrough? Because it was extremely obvious that people got better fast. Unfortunately, science didn't know back then how adaptable organisms really are. Whether a person improves quickly or not at all, depends on which organisms he's dealing with. Also, I'm happy you're feeling better, but I'm not going to get too worked up about it until I talk to you in a year and the improvement has been sustained or lots of people start reporting similar lasting effects. Then I might get excited. But this low dose stuff has been around for quite a while, and I'm not seeing any remarkable cures of people who are really ill. You say yourself that you're not really very ill, so who

knows why it seems to be working for you? Could be anything. It's like the vitamin D as antimicrobial theory that was just raised. Who knew? It's fun to speculate about the maybes, do some brainstorming, but as says, it's way too soon to draw conclusions until we have more evidence to corroborate it. penny jellybelly92008 <herranenb@...> wrote: You lost me there Aussie. I am talking about the bacteria hiding, not people, what are you talking about? What does the medical

establisment have to do with whether or not we herx. You lost me.When we don't herx on massive ABX, then this tells me that these organisms have gone into a form that the ABX are not effective against, like a cyst. OR another theory that may play into this, is that there is so much fibrin buildup coating these bacteria tht ABX can not penetrate. Maybe it is a combo of both.I agree that they are in every cell. I always have said, even before I knew what the problem was that nothing worked qute right. It worked, but just barely. I've heard things like EKG looks normal....kind of.Yes, I heard of 's death. I have known him for several years. He landed on my board some time ago and was so ready to cure us all. Wanted to take over my board and make it big, real big. I was so very sorry to hear of that news. Was it finally determined it was his heart. I heard lots of possibilities, but nothing definitive

because autopsy results were not in. Have we gotten the results from that? > > > > > > > > >Barb> > > > >I have read 1000's of posts, thousands of testimony's- who's > > > > >actually looking at the low dose impact zones-this is > basically > > > > >another world far, far away- just something about reading > stuff > > > that > > > > >is so irrelevant to what is actually practised. it's > > deceiving ...> > > > >I'd have no problems with people using low dose tetracyclines > > > > >because they actually still kill, it's when they stimulate > that > > > they > > > > >BECOME scary- I personally had a problem with stimulating > > > bacteria > > > > >by using certain drugs and mino was one that was near the top > > of > > > the > >

> > >list for me and I OBSERVED ON QUITE A FEW OTHER SAMPLES.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The way i see it there is alot of people that don't get well > > with > > > the > > > > current way of thinking,> > > > Instead they are left to believe that walking sticks or > cruches > > is > > > the > > > > rigth thing.> > > > This does not mean that low dose is the right thing, Its means > > > that > > > > somethings must be done differnently to allow> > > > for a change to occur low dos abx maybe be a candidate.> > > >> > >> >>