Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I hear DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome for DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to be the target of quinolone abx. I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. , Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons. Here is a relatively new article giving some explanation as to why. a sportsmedicine.about.com article: This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your response to exercise; by Carol Krucoff: " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs - including prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect the body's reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury. Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and judgment, causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance performence, though often at some risk. That's why the International Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain relievers, steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many popular over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim, Metabolife, Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with EPHEDRINE. Most of these drugs have acceptable alternatives. A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently attracted the attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been linked to serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or hand. Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most commonly prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a popular remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper respiratory tract and urinary tract. " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an athlete, " says Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of Medicine at Cornell University in New York. In a recent study, incubated human musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found that the cells made destructive enzymes in reponse. Higher doses had more severe effects, according to the study, which will be published in the May/June issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine. " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is a slight twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, " says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through this sort of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll get into trouble. " The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of tendon rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from exercise at the first sign of pain or inflammation. Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who says the exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact activities, heavy weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration and deceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 No one should do sport on quinolones. The person I know who had damage that healed 1 year later was doing squats on cipro, bleu On 31 May 2006, at 22:14, a Carnes wrote: > >  >  > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I > hear > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome for > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to > be the target of quinolone abx. > > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. > > > , > > Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons. Here > is a relatively new article giving some explanation as to why. > > a > >  > sportsmedicine.about.com > article: > This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your response > to exercise; by Carol Krucoff: > " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs - > including prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can > affect the body's reponse to exercise and potentially increase the > risk of injury. > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and > judgment, causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may > enhance performence, though often at some risk. That's why the > International Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain > stimulants, pain relievers, steroids, diuretics and hormones. > Prohibited products include many popular over-the-counter preparations > such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim, Metabolife, Midol, Alka-Seltzer > Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with EPHEDRINE. Most of these drugs > have acceptable alternatives. >  > A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently attracted > the attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been > linked to serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder > joint or hand. >  > Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most commonly > prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a popular > remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper > respiratory tract and urinary tract. >  > " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an > athlete, " says Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill > College of Medicine at Cornell University in New York. In a recent > study, incubated human musculoskeletel cells with different > strengths of CIPRO and found that the cells made destructive enzymes > in reponse. Higher doses had more severe effects, according to the > study, which will be published in the May/June issue of the American > Journal fo Sports Medicine. >  > " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is a > slight twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after > activity, " > says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through this > sort of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll > get into trouble. " >  > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for > fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of tendon > rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from > exercise at the first sign of pain or inflammation. > Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who says > the exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact > activities, heavy weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid > acceleration and deceleration. > >  > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll be sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff. I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are likely to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together. But I do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional event consistent with complex partial seizure). According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good to me in its methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration' a As you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro resistant) there's a huge price to pay - I'd rather call it a superinfection than a side effect though. Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to have. So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than some government conspiracy. > > > > > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I hear > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome for > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to > be the target of quinolone abx. > > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. > > > > , > > Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons. Here is a > relatively new article giving some explanation as to why. > > a > > > > sportsmedicine.about.com > > article: > > This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your response to > exercise; by Carol Krucoff: > > " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs - including > prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect the body's > reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury. > > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and judgment, > causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance > performence, though often at some risk. That's why the International > Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain relievers, > steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many popular > over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim, Metabolife, > Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with EPHEDRINE. Most > of these drugs have acceptable alternatives. > > > > A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently attracted the > attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been linked to > serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or hand. > > > > Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most commonly > prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a popular > remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper > respiratory tract and urinary tract. > > > > " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an athlete, " says > Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of Medicine at > Cornell University in New York. In a recent study, incubated human > musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found that the > cells made destructive enzymes in reponse. Higher doses had more severe > effects, according to the study, which will be published in the May/June > issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine. > > > > " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is a slight > twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, " > > says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through this sort > of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll get into > trouble. " > > > > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for > fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of tendon > rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from exercise at > the first sign of pain or inflammation. > > Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who says the > exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact activities, heavy > weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration and > deceleration. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Cipro Resistance is possably right at the feet of this whole scenario. BActeria pick up plasmids to defend against the drug, these defence mechanisms are often highly toxic in order to neutralise the drug- so the body is coping a fare whack and the tendons may be the sights of this toxic damage- There's definately a bigger picture in this whole scenario that supports both views IMO. > > > I disagree > > > > It is known that tendon damage while on cipro is poss and it is > > recommended NOT to do sport. > > > > bleu > > : > > > >> , just a couple of brief comments as you are well able to do your > >> own research. The tendon damage has nothing to do with whether you > >> exercise or are young. It has to do with the nature of the > >> antibiotic. Whereas a young person still exercising will tear a > >> tendon, and older, sick person such as myself will merely develop > >> severe and agonizing and constant pain in the tendons. > >> Â > >> On the subject of seizures I expect you have heard of a lot of cfs > >> cases where the person has something like a mini coma. Over the years > >> I have heard of several who complained of this. My son, now 32, > >> developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. However, when he was 14 he came > >> down with some flu-like illness and recovered in a couple of days. > >> Later that month while he was going to class he forgot where he was, > >> where he was going, what he was doing. Nothing was ever diagnosed at > >> that time. In hindsight we and the doctors are fairly certain he has > >> had Lyme all his life. > >> Â > >> a > >> Â > >> Â > >> Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the > >> tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll > >> be > >> sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff. > >> > >> I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are > >> likely > >> to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together. > >> But I > >> do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are > >> reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional > >> event consistent with complex partial seizure). > >> > >> According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure > >> suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been > >> studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear > >> seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly > >> in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good > >> to > >> me in its methods. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 a I don't advise anyone to take cipro, I just gave my experiences with it and NO_ONE ON THE PLANET has played with drugs like yours truly. Remember I had FIBROMYALGIA which was so painfull in the first year I couldn't drive my manual car after a few attemnpts-laid in bed for 2 weeks after driving a few miles on one occasion. So the quinolone risk is definately something that should be weighed up- but the most important part for me is it's poor bone penetrating potential so in autoimmune cases it's out for me.My favourite drugs are streptomycin and penicillin the real drugs, that saved real lives. Remember I alway's say to people yeah your father cleared his UTI (with cipro) like nothing else coulkd but give it a couple of weeks- and I thought it may be back with a vengeance. tony -- In infections , " a Carnes " <pj7@...> wrote: > > Tony, I don't think the blasi salts are helping due to hydration, but I will > write more on that later. Please reread this paragraph from an article I > posted. This is written by a sports medicine doctor, not someone treating > sick people. Also, he tested muscle tissue, not infected patients. > Quinolones are toxic substances just like cancer treatment. Cubist made a > statement that " when we put a quinolone in a human body we know it is toxic. > We just hope it kills the bacteria before it harms the person. " This was > from a scientist promoting their new quinolone at a biotech conference. Do > not give people on this list a sense that quinolones are safe. They may be > helpful but they are not safe any more than cancer treatment is safe. a > > > > In a recent study, incubated human musculoskeletal cells with > different strengths of CIPRO and found that the cells made destructive > enzymes in response. Higher doses had more severe effects, according to the > study, which will be published in the May/June issue of the American Journal > of Sports Medicine. > > > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and > judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration' > a > As you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the > blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole > point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my > supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers > a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely > everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro > resistant) there's a huge price to pay - I'd rather call it a > superinfection than a side effect though. > > Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of > consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one > doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers > heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the > disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to > have. So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more > candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than > some government conspiracy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, > as > > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I > hear > > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome > for > > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand > to > > be the target of quinolone abx. > > > > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. > If > > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. > > > > > > > > , > > > > Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons. > Here is a > > relatively new article giving some explanation as to why. > > > > a > > > > > > > > sportsmedicine.about.com > > > > article: > > > > This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your > response to > > exercise; by Carol Krucoff: > > > > " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs - > including > > prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect > the body's > > reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury. > > > > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and > judgment, > > causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance > > performence, though often at some risk. That's why the > International > > Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain > relievers, > > steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many > popular > > over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim, > Metabolife, > > Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with > EPHEDRINE. Most > > of these drugs have acceptable alternatives. > > > > > > > > A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently > attracted the > > attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been > linked to > > serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or > hand. > > > > > > > > Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most > commonly > > prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a > popular > > remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper > > respiratory tract and urinary tract. > > > > > > > > " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an > athlete, " says > > Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of > Medicine at > > Cornell University in New York. In a recent study, > incubated human > > musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found > that the > > cells made destructive enzymes in reponse. Higher doses had more > severe > > effects, according to the study, which will be published in the > May/June > > issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine. > > > > > > > > " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is > a slight > > twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, " > > > > says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through > this sort > > of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll > get into > > trouble. " > > > > > > > > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for > > fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of > tendon > > rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from > exercise at > > the first sign of pain or inflammation. > > > > Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who > says the > > exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact > activities, heavy > > weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration > and > > deceleration. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I've never known of any abx resistance factors that are toxic. The only specific resistance factor I've heard of for quinos is for the bacterium to just pick up a mutation in the DNA gyrase which prevents the drug from binding there properly. I guess its possible a secreted bacterial factor like a B-lactamase could cause an immune response. I dont know whether B-lactamase secretion can be increased by exposure of bacteria to B-lactams. > > Cipro Resistance is possably right at the feet of this whole > scenario. BActeria pick up plasmids to defend against the drug, > these defence mechanisms are often highly toxic in order to > neutralise the drug- so the body is coping a fare whack and the > tendons may be the sights of this toxic damage- > > There's definately a bigger picture in this whole scenario that > supports both views IMO. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 antibiotics are often not used because they are too toxic, or often these antiibiotics are used to treat cancer- there's a whole group of antibiotics that are too toxic for general use and are used in cancer patients.Basically most antibiotics are tested for human tissue toxicity- the bacteria that pumps us with there toxicities to make us ill is obviously winning some battles.So when the battle begins between our bugs and the drug it's the pathogen or pathogens response that isn't taken into consideration. > > > > Cipro Resistance is possably right at the feet of this whole > > scenario. BActeria pick up plasmids to defend against the drug, > > these defence mechanisms are often highly toxic in order to > > neutralise the drug- so the body is coping a fare whack and the > > tendons may be the sights of this toxic damage- > > > > There's definately a bigger picture in this whole scenario that > > supports both views IMO. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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