Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Tony and , If you read these two research articles you will see that minocycline and Zithromax are actually effective against borrelia. I don’t think quinolones are necessary, and given the huge risk of side effects in patients such as ourselves (almost always magnesium deficient) I see no reason to take quinolones. If you know you have babesia you could add Mepron to the Zithromax following the usual treatment suggestions for time frame etc. If you read Mark London’s overview of the MP you will have noted that he doesn’t mention the selection of antibiotics. This is unfortunate, because the selection of antibiotics is probably the brilliant part of the protocol, while the rest of it probably doesn’t even apply to Lyme. Who knows. –a 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8. Related Articles, Links Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: clinical and microbiological findings. Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia. The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, range 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was positive in four out of 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 months' follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, while 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed minor consecutive manifestations. Publication Types: * Clinical Trial * Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82. Related Articles, Links No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, Volkenandt M, Kerl H. Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme borreliosis. PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8. Related Articles, Links Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: clinical and microbiological findings. Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia. The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, range 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was positive in four out of 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 months' follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, while 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed minor consecutive manifestations. Publication Types: * Clinical Trial * Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82. Related Articles, Links No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, Volkenandt M, Kerl H. Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme borreliosis. PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] I think flagyl /cipro is a very popular combo I just can't recall for what though. > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I hear > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome for > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to > be the target of quinolone abx. > > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I don't know, a. If it hadn't been for Cipro, I'm not sure I'd be here right now. None of the other drugs, until pencillin were able to impact me the way Cipro did. Certainly not zithromax. And minocycline is poisonous to me, and possibly anyone who may have mild to moderal intracranial hypertension. pennya Carnes <pj7@...> wrote: Tony and , If you read these two research articles you will see that minocycline and Zithromax are actually effective against borrelia. I don’t think quinolones are necessary, and given the huge risk of side effects in patients such as ourselves (almost always magnesium deficient) I see no reason to take quinolones. If you know you have babesia you could add Mepron to the Zithromax following the usual treatment suggestions for time frame etc. If you read Mark London’s overview of the MP you will have noted that he doesn’t mention the selection of antibiotics. This is unfortunate, because the selection of antibiotics is probably the brilliant part of the protocol, while the rest of it probably doesn’t even apply to Lyme. Who knows. –a 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8. Related Articles, Links Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: clinical and microbiological findings. Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia. The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, range 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was positive in four out of 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 months' follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, while 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed minor consecutive manifestations. Publication Types: * Clinical Trial * Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82. Related Articles, Links No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, Volkenandt M, Kerl H. Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme borreliosis. PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8. Related Articles, Links Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: clinical and microbiological findings. Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, Ljubljana, Slovenia. The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, range 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was positive in four out of 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 months' follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, while 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed minor consecutive manifestations. Publication Types: * Clinical Trial * Randomized Controlled Trial PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] 1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82. Related Articles, Links No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, Volkenandt M, Kerl H. Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme borreliosis. PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] I think flagyl /cipro is a very popular combo I just can't recall for what though.>> I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I hear > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome for > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to > be the target of quinolone abx.> > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Zitromax while a good abx, very quickly seems to become ineffective for many people. Where as Cipro goes on and on and on. bleu On 1 Jun 2006, at 16:54, a Carnes wrote: > > Tony and , > If you read these two research articles you will see that minocycline > and Zithromax are actually effective against borrelia. I don’t think > quinolones are necessary, and given the huge risk of side effects in > patients such as ourselves (almost always magnesium deficient) I see > no reason to take quinolones. If you know you have babesia you could > add Mepron to the Zithromax following the usual treatment suggestions > for time frame etc. >  > If you read Mark London’s overview of the MP you will have noted that > he doesn’t mention the selection of antibiotics. This is unfortunate, > because the selection of antibiotics is probably the brilliant part of > the protocol, while the rest of it probably doesn’t even apply to > Lyme. Who knows.   –a >  >  > 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8.    Related Articles, Links >  >    Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: > clinical and microbiological findings. >  >    Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. >  >    Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, > Ljubljana, Slovenia. >  >    The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment > of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. > One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, > examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University > Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the > study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily > for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 > patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The > mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 > +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 > days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, > range > 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia > burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before > therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 > in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was > positive in four out of > 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who > received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with > a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 > months' > follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the > azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, > while > 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed > minor consecutive manifestations. >  >    Publication Types: >  >        * Clinical Trial >        * Randomized Controlled Trial >  >  >    PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >  >  >  >  >  >  1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82.    Related Articles, Links >  >    No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema > migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. >  >    Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, > Volkenandt M, Kerl H. >  >    Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. >  >    BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is > important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several > attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial > infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients > with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the > (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The > formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by > polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia > burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay > succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first > biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before > initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of > minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis > disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The > good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans > substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented > polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, > indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme > borreliosis. >  >    PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >  >  >  > 1: Infection. 1993 Mar-Apr;21(2):83-8.    Related Articles, Links >  >    Azithromycin versus doxycycline for treatment of erythema migrans: > clinical and microbiological findings. >  >    Strle F, Preac-Mursic V, Cimperman J, Ruzic E, Maraspin V, Jereb M. >  >    Department of Infectious Diseases, University Medical Center, > Ljubljana, Slovenia. >  >    The effectiveness of azithromycin and doxycycline in the treatment > of erythema migrans was compared in a prospective randomized trial. > One hundred seven adult patients with typical erythema migrans, > examined in the Lyme Borreliosis Outpatients' Clinic, University > Department of Infectious Diseases in Ljubljana, were included in the > study. Fifty-five patients received azithromycin (500 mg twice daily > for the first day, followed by 500 mg once daily for four days) and 52 > patients received doxycycline (100 mg twice daily for 14 days). The > mean duration of skin lesions after the beginning of treatment was 7.5 > +/- 5.9 days (median value 5, range 2-28 > days) in the azithromycin group and 11.4 +/- 7.8 days (median value 9, > range > 2 days--8 weeks) in the doxycycline group (p < 0.05). Borrelia > burgdorferi was isolated from erythema migrans in 28 patients before > therapy: in 13 out of 52 in the doxycycline group and in 15 out of 55 > in the azithromycin group. Three months after therapy, the culture was > positive in four out of > 13 patients treated with doxycycline and in one of the 15 patients who > received azithromycin. A biopsy was repeated in all the patients with > a positive isolation from the first skin specimen. During the first 12 > months' > follow-up, three patients treated with doxycycline but none in the > azithromycin group developed major manifestations of Lyme borreliosis, > while > 15 doxycycline recipients and 10 azithromycin recipients developed > minor consecutive manifestations. >  >    Publication Types: >  >        * Clinical Trial >        * Randomized Controlled Trial >  >  >    PMID: 8387966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >  >  >  >  >  >  1: Arch Dermatol. 1995 Jun;131(6):678-82.    Related Articles, Links >  >    No detection of Borrelia burgdorferi-specific DNA in erythema > migrans lesions after minocycline treatment. >  >    Muellegger RR, Zoechling N, Soyer HP, Hoedl S, Wienecke R, > Volkenandt M, Kerl H. >  >    Department of Dermatology, Karl-Franzens University, Graz, Austria. >  >    BACKGROUND AND DESIGN: Early treatment of erythema migrans is > important to prevent late complications. Minocycline possesses several > attributes, making it potentially useful in the treatment of borrelial > infections. In our study, minocycline was administered to 14 patients > with erythema migrans. Punch biopsy specimens were obtained from the > (affected) skin of all patients before and after therapy. The > formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded specimens were analyzed by > polymerase chain reaction for the presence of Borrelia > burgdorferi-specific DNA. RESULTS: Polymerase chain reaction assay > succeeded in amplifying B burgdorferi-specific DNA from the first > biopsy specimen, obtained from the border of erythema migrans before > initiating treatment, in eight (57%) of 14 patients. At the end of > minocycline therapy, however, polymerase chain reaction analysis > disclosed no B burgdorferi-specific DNA in any of the 14 patients. The > good clinical response of our patients with erythema migrans > substantiates our molecular findings. CONCLUSIONS: The presented > polymerase chain reaction data, together with the clinical outcome, > indicate that minocycline may be useful for treatment of early Lyme > borreliosis. >  >    PMID: 7778919 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >  >  > I think flagyl /cipro is a very popular combo I just can't recall > for what though. > > > > > > > > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, > as > > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I > hear > > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome > for > > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand > to > > be the target of quinolone abx. > > > > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. > If > > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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