Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Tony, Here is the post I sent to . I don't think I am capable of having a productive exchange with you as you always seem to think that It's an either/or situation. I have never thought that staph for eg could NOT cause severe illness, and I am pleased when people are able to identify their own particular bugs, and staph might very well be at the root of some people's CFS/fibro/whatever, and good for you if you can identify staph, culture it, test it against abx, choose the best abx and get the patient better GOOD! I am pleased! So please stop telling me that staph (and streps and and and plenty more) can be pathogenic, because I know! I think other bacteria are pathogenic and yes that includes Borrelias, babesias, rickettsias, chlamydias, coxiellas, bartonellas and they may feel "exotic" to you, my educated guess is that they are everything BUT exotic. And I think people like Nicolson and many others that you despise, are onto something big in terms of public health. So once and for all: yes, people get sick (and die) from staph, strep etc and these bugs need to be identified and I am sure you can help people by identifying these fast growers, good, keep doing it. All I am saying is: don't pour scorn on the other bugs you can't grow in your garage! That's all! Nelly Re: [] Re: Infections Penny,>I'm accused of being vocal. But that's because it's hard to get >people to listen. (and I wish those who do listen would post here, >rather than writing me privately). Here is a once vocal now not very vocal member of I & I chiming in to give you my full support. I have been ill for 25 years (sudden onset, although I can trace back some things back to the time I was a baby) and I believe that infections are at the very CORE of my illness. And BTW, I don't need to "listen" as I have known ever since I became ill that my illness was caused by infection(s), in my case Lyme being one of the culprits, as I had loads of exposure and a beautiful EM rash. Basically I agree with everything you say here, Penny, the microbiologists could identify far, far more than they do if only they'd just .... DO IT!! > I know several microbiologists who can tell you exactly how easy it >is to test and identify organisms. First you put the sample in the >petri dish and watch to see what grows profusely. The only problem I have with what you and Tony say, is how do you get the RIGHT tissue sample unto the damned plate/slide? Some slow growing bugs are hard to identify, and are not plentiful in blood for eg. and are often found in deep tissues and in variant forms. But this does not agree with Tony, who can only get his mind around things HE can SEE under HIS scope, the rest does not exist!!!Once you've got the right sample they should be able to carry out the necessary culturing and testing against abx, and for the less "culturable" organisms, there are now molecular techniques that can be used but that rarely are.I think that even if doctors were willing to test properly, some bugs would still be fastidious or near impossible to grow.What gets to me is that researchers are paid to amuse themselves with molecular techniques (PCRs) to identify rickettsiae in Egyptian mommies' teeth for eg, but hardly anyone wants to use these same techniques to find pathogens in sick live people! I don't post because I get tired of the constant abuse from Tony, I am tired of Tony claiming to be the only person to seriously think that we have serious infections. I've been thinking the very same thing for at least 25 years!!!In my case, I practise trial an error with my abx and the only things that REALLY work is the imidazoles and mefloquine aka Lariam (anti-malarial).Nelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 > I think other bacteria are pathogenic and yes that includes Borrelias, babesias, rickettsias, chlamydias, coxiellas, bartonellas and they may feel " exotic " to you, my educated guess is that they are everything BUT exotic. Take a walk down the street anywhere but a full blown city, and you are likely to pass plenty of animal species whose wild populations have been reported as 20-50% (even 100%) PCR-positive for borrelia. Mice. Lizards. Numerous songbirds. Thats how exotic they are. Many of the birds and animals you see on the street may well carry 3 or 4 different strains, since we know that most infected White-footed Mice do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Hey Nelly, Thanks for chiming in. Seriously, I appreciate it. Nice birthday present. And since it IS my birthday, I haven't gone back to the forum. It's just too upsetting to watch people ignore such basic stuff. I agree that it can get very tricky. Even the simplest bugs are difficult to treat. But it makes more sense to me to start from the ground up, rule things out first, but how can we do that if our own community won't even think about it let alone get our docs to do basic testing, or acknowledge that we're dealing with destructive bugs in the first place. I guess I'm not just banging my head against any wall here, it's more like the great wall of china. pennyNelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: Tony, Here is the post I sent to . I don't think I am capable of having a productive exchange with you as you always seem to think that It's an either/or situation. I have never thought that staph for eg could NOT cause severe illness, and I am pleased when people are able to identify their own particular bugs, and staph might very well be at the root of some people's CFS/fibro/whatever, and good for you if you can identify staph, culture it, test it against abx, choose the best abx and get the patient better GOOD! I am pleased! So please stop telling me that staph (and streps and and and plenty more) can be pathogenic, because I know! I think other bacteria are pathogenic and yes that includes Borrelias, babesias, rickettsias, chlamydias, coxiellas, bartonellas and they may feel "exotic" to you, my educated guess is that they are everything BUT exotic. And I think people like Nicolson and many others that you despise, are onto something big in terms of public health. So once and for all: yes, people get sick (and die) from staph, strep etc and these bugs need to be identified and I am sure you can help people by identifying these fast growers, good, keep doing it. All I am saying is: don't pour scorn on the other bugs you can't grow in your garage! That's all! Nelly Re: [] Re: Infections Penny,>I'm accused of being vocal. But that's because it's hard to get >people to listen. (and I wish those who do listen would post here, >rather than writing me privately). Here is a once vocal now not very vocal member of I & I chiming in to give you my full support. I have been ill for 25 years (sudden onset, although I can trace back some things back to the time I was a baby) and I believe that infections are at the very CORE of my illness. And BTW, I don't need to "listen" as I have known ever since I became ill that my illness was caused by infection(s), in my case Lyme being one of the culprits, as I had loads of exposure and a beautiful EM rash. Basically I agree with everything you say here, Penny, the microbiologists could identify far, far more than they do if only they'd just .... DO IT!! > I know several microbiologists who can tell you exactly how easy it >is to test and identify organisms. First you put the sample in the >petri dish and watch to see what grows profusely. The only problem I have with what you and Tony say, is how do you get the RIGHT tissue sample unto the damned plate/slide? Some slow growing bugs are hard to identify, and are not plentiful in blood for eg. and are often found in deep tissues and in variant forms. But this does not agree with Tony, who can only get his mind around things HE can SEE under HIS scope, the rest does not exist!!!Once you've got the right sample they should be able to carry out the necessary culturing and testing against abx, and for the less "culturable" organisms, there are now molecular techniques that can be used but that rarely are.I think that even if doctors were willing to test properly, some bugs would still be fastidious or near impossible to grow.What gets to me is that researchers are paid to amuse themselves with molecular techniques (PCRs) to identify rickettsiae in Egyptian mommies' teeth for eg, but hardly anyone wants to use these same techniques to find pathogens in sick live people! I don't post because I get tired of the constant abuse from Tony, I am tired of Tony claiming to be the only person to seriously think that we have serious infections. I've been thinking the very same thing for at least 25 years!!!In my case, I practise trial an error with my abx and the only things that REALLY work is the imidazoles and mefloquine aka Lariam (anti-malarial).Nelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Nelly If I just got run over by a bus why would I want to be looking for someone pedalling a bike.You gotta put into perspective what's knocked you over. I know you think that deep tissue revealks all but in my experience if you have a bad staph areus your deep tissue bugs are going to be nailed by the toxins the staph areus is producing that are making you ill. I did a culture on a person suiffering extremely advanced ankylising spondilitis and he had no normal flora bacteria growing anywhere on his anatomy the staph areus I cultured from his throat sample was IMO good enough to kill off all competition.Normal people cultured have a good variety and more species of bacteria than the chronically ill folk. You basically get a good 6 different orgnisms plus a couple of fungus's off normal folk they have a nice spread and they look very benign the autoimmune folk will give you a pseudonomas or fungus or staph and depending on how powerfull the pseudonomas is it may be hard to find a staph. It's just a pattern of bacterial cultures that sit right up there with what is killing normal folk the only difference ius doctors only treat ACUTE ILNESEES CHRONIC CONDITIONS are poo pooed. > > Tony, > > Here is the post I sent to . > > I don't think I am capable of having a productive exchange with you as you always seem to think that It's an either/or situation. > > I have never thought that staph for eg could NOT cause severe illness, and I am pleased when people are able to identify their own particular bugs, and staph might very well be at the root of some people's CFS/fibro/whatever, and good for you if you can identify staph, culture it, test it against abx, choose the best abx and get the patient better GOOD! I am pleased! So please stop telling me that staph (and streps and and and plenty more) can be pathogenic, because I know! > > I think other bacteria are pathogenic and yes that includes Borrelias, babesias, rickettsias, chlamydias, coxiellas, bartonellas and they may feel " exotic " to you, my educated guess is that they are everything BUT exotic. And I think people like Nicolson and many others that you despise, are onto something big in terms of public health. > > So once and for all: yes, people get sick (and die) from staph, strep etc and these bugs need to be identified and I am sure you can help people by identifying these fast growers, good, keep doing it. All I am saying is: don't pour scorn on the other bugs you can't grow in your garage! That's all! > > Nelly > > Re: [] Re: Infections > > > Penny, > > >I'm accused of being vocal. But that's because it's hard to get > >people to listen. (and I wish those who do listen would post here, > >rather than writing me privately). > > Here is a once vocal now not very vocal member of I & I chiming in to give you my full support. I have been ill for 25 years (sudden onset, although I can trace back some things back to the time I was a baby) and I believe that infections are at the very CORE of my illness. And BTW, I don't need to " listen " as I have known ever since I became ill that my illness was caused by infection(s), in my case Lyme being one of the culprits, as I had loads of exposure and a beautiful EM rash. > > Basically I agree with everything you say here, Penny, the microbiologists could identify far, far more than they do if only they'd just .... DO IT!! > > > I know several microbiologists who can tell you exactly how easy it > >is to test and identify organisms. First you put the sample in the > >petri dish and watch to see what grows profusely. > > The only problem I have with what you and Tony say, is how do you get the RIGHT tissue sample unto the damned plate/slide? > > Some slow growing bugs are hard to identify, and are not plentiful in blood for eg. and are often found in deep tissues and in variant forms. But this does not agree with Tony, who can only get his mind around things HE can SEE under HIS scope, the rest does not exist!!! > > Once you've got the right sample they should be able to carry out the necessary culturing and testing against abx, and for the less " culturable " organisms, there are now molecular techniques that can be used but that rarely are. > > I think that even if doctors were willing to test properly, some bugs would still be fastidious or near impossible to grow. > > What gets to me is that researchers are paid to amuse themselves with molecular techniques (PCRs) to identify rickettsiae in Egyptian mommies' teeth for eg, but hardly anyone wants to use these same techniques to find pathogens in sick live people! > > I don't post because I get tired of the constant abuse from Tony, I am tired of Tony claiming to be the only person to seriously think that we have serious infections. I've been thinking the very same thing for at least 25 years!!! > > In my case, I practise trial an error with my abx and the only things that REALLY work is the imidazoles and mefloquine aka Lariam (anti-malarial). > > Nelly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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