Re: Re: quinolones/, tendons

[Guest guest]

, just a couple of brief comments as

you are well able to do your own research. The tendon damage has nothing to do

with whether you exercise or are young. It has to do with the nature of the

antibiotic. Whereas a young person still exercising will tear a tendon, and

older, sick person such as myself will merely develop severe and agonizing and

constant pain in the tendons.

On the subject of seizures I expect you

have heard of a lot of cfs cases where the person has something like a mini

coma. Over the years I have heard of several who complained of this. My son,

now 32, developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. However, when he was 14 he came down

with some flu-like illness and recovered in a couple of days. Later that month

while he was going to class he forgot where he was, where he was going, what he

was doing. Nothing was ever diagnosed at that time. In hindsight we and the

doctors are fairly certain he has had Lyme all his life.

a

Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the

tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll be

sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff.

I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are likely

to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together. But I

do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are

reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional

event consistent with complex partial seizure).

According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure

suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been

studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear

seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly

in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good to

me in its methods.

[Guest guest]

when one has moments that come on very quick like this, I think the

electolytes should be looked at closely with an eye on Potassium

bleu

On 1 Jun 2006, at 04:46, wrote:

> I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are

> likely

> to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together. But

> I

> do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are

> reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional

> event consistent with complex partial seizure).

[Guest guest]

I disagree

It is known that tendon damage while on cipro is poss and it is

recommended NOT to do sport.

bleu

:

> , just a couple of brief comments as you are well able to do your

> own research. The tendon damage has nothing to do with whether you

> exercise or are young. It has to do with the nature of the antibiotic.

> Whereas a young person still exercising will tear a tendon, and older,

> sick person such as myself will merely develop severe and agonizing

> and constant pain in the tendons.

>  

> On the subject of seizures I expect you have heard of a lot of cfs

> cases where the person has something like a mini coma. Over the years

> I have heard of several who complained of this. My son, now 32,

> developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. However, when he was 14 he came

> down with some flu-like illness and recovered in a couple of days.

> Later that month while he was going to class he forgot where he was,

> where he was going, what he was doing. Nothing was ever diagnosed at

> that time. In hindsight we and the doctors are fairly certain he has

> had Lyme all his life.

>  

> a

>  

>  

> Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the

> tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll be

> sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff.

>

> I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are

> likely

> to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together. But

> I

> do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are

> reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional

> event consistent with complex partial seizure).

>

> According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure

> suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been

> studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear

> seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly

> in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good to

> me in its methods.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cipro is a great drug, but some physicians advise against its use in

athletes. One study, found that the cells made destructive enzymes in

response to Cipro. Higher doses had more severe effects, according to

the study, published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/drugs_doping/a/aa042500.htm

On 1 Jun 2006, at 10:08, Colourbleu wrote:

> I disagree

>

> It is known that tendon damage while on cipro is poss and it is

> recommended NOT to do sport.

>

> bleu

> :

>

>> , just a couple of brief comments as you are well able to do your

>> own research. The tendon damage has nothing to do with whether you

>> exercise or are young. It has to do with the nature of the

>> antibiotic. Whereas a young person still exercising will tear a

>> tendon, and older, sick person such as myself will merely develop

>> severe and agonizing and constant pain in the tendons.

>>  

>> On the subject of seizures I expect you have heard of a lot of cfs

>> cases where the person has something like a mini coma. Over the years

>> I have heard of several who complained of this. My son, now 32,

>> developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. However, when he was 14 he came

>> down with some flu-like illness and recovered in a couple of days.

>> Later that month while he was going to class he forgot where he was,

>> where he was going, what he was doing. Nothing was ever diagnosed at

>> that time. In hindsight we and the doctors are fairly certain he has

>> had Lyme all his life.

>>  

>> a

>>  

>>  

>> Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the

>> tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll

>> be

>> sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff.

>>

>> I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are

>> likely

>> to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together.

>> But I

>> do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are

>> reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional

>> event consistent with complex partial seizure).

>>

>> According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure

>> suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been

>> studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear

>> seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly

>> in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good

>> to

>> me in its methods.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Cipro is a great drug, but some physicians advise against its use in

athletes. One study, found that the cells made destructive enzymes in

response to Cipro. Higher doses had more severe effects, according to

the study, published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is a

slight twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity.

It's common for athletes to try to work through this sort of thing, but

if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll get into trouble.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for

fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of tendon

rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from exercise

at the first sign of pain or inflammation. Yet many doctors aren't

aware of this advice, notes , who says the exercisers at

greatest risk are those who do high-impact activities, heavy

weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration and

deceleration.

On 1 Jun 2006, at 10:08, Colourbleu wrote:

> I disagree

>

> It is known that tendon damage while on cipro is poss and it is

> recommended NOT to do sport.

>

> bleu

> :

>

>> , just a couple of brief comments as you are well able to do your

>> own research. The tendon damage has nothing to do with whether you

>> exercise or are young. It has to do with the nature of the

>> antibiotic. Whereas a young person still exercising will tear a

>> tendon, and older, sick person such as myself will merely develop

>> severe and agonizing and constant pain in the tendons.

>>  

>> On the subject of seizures I expect you have heard of a lot of cfs

>> cases where the person has something like a mini coma. Over the years

>> I have heard of several who complained of this. My son, now 32,

>> developed Lyme symptoms at age 30. However, when he was 14 he came

>> down with some flu-like illness and recovered in a couple of days.

>> Later that month while he was going to class he forgot where he was,

>> where he was going, what he was doing. Nothing was ever diagnosed at

>> that time. In hindsight we and the doctors are fairly certain he has

>> had Lyme all his life.

>>  

>> a

>>  

>>  

>> Many thanks yall. I wasnt even aware that exertion aggravates the

>> tendon damage risk - and thats something vital for me to know. I'll

>> be

>> sure to read all about the tendon and CNS stuff.

>>

>> I have yet to explore whether drugs that can promote seizure are

>> likely

>> to do so additively, or even synergistically, when used together.

>> But I

>> do suspect seizure threshholds in CFS are lowered, since seizures are

>> reported not rarely (I myself once had a mild confusional/convusional

>> event consistent with complex partial seizure).

>>

>> According to some fairly dogged pubmedding I did, excess seizure

>> suceptibility has probably never been studied in CFS. It has been

>> studied in MS, with most studies positive for a modest but very clear

>> seizure excess in the MS population. I looked at these studies mainly

>> in abstract. There was one negative study but it didnt look as good

>> to

>> me in its methods.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Tony, I don’t think the blasi salts

are helping due to hydration, but I will write more on that later. Please

reread this paragraph from an article I posted. This is written by a sports

medicine doctor, not someone treating sick people. Also, he tested muscle

tissue, not infected patients. Quinolones are toxic substances just like cancer

treatment. Cubist made a statement that “when we put a quinolone in a

human body we know it is toxic. We just hope it kills the bacteria before it

harms the person.” This was from a scientist promoting their new

quinolone at a biotech conference. Do not give people on this list a sense that

quinolones are safe. They may be helpful but they are not safe any more than

cancer treatment is safe. a

In a recent study,

incubated human musculoskeletal cells with different strengths of CIPRO and

found that the cells made destructive enzymes in response. Higher doses

had more severe effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

May/June issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration'

a

As you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the

blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole

point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my

supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers

a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely

everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro

resistant) there's a huge price to pay - I'd rather call it a

superinfection than a side effect though.

Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of

consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one

doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers

heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the

disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to

have. So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more

candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than

some government conspiracy.

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles,

as

> DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I

hear

> DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome

for

> DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand

to

> be the target of quinolone abx.

>

> I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet.

If

> anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know.

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons.

Here is a

> relatively new article giving some explanation as to why.

>

> a

>

>

>

> sportsmedicine.about.com

>

> article:

>

> This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your

response to

> exercise; by Carol Krucoff:

>

> " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs -

including

> prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect

the body's

> reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury.

>

> Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

judgment,

> causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance

> performence, though often at some risk. That's why the

International

> Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain

relievers,

> steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many

popular

> over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim,

Metabolife,

> Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with

EPHEDRINE. Most

> of these drugs have acceptable alternatives.

>

>

>

> A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently

attracted the

> attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been

linked to

> serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or

hand.

>

>

>

> Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most

commonly

> prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a

popular

> remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper

> respiratory tract and urinary tract.

>

>

>

> " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an

athlete, " says

> Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of

Medicine at

> Cornell University

in New York.

In a recent study,

incubated human

> musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found

that the

> cells made destructive enzymes in reponse. Higher doses had more

severe

> effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

May/June

> issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine.

>

>

>

> " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is

a slight

> twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, "

>

> says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through

this sort

> of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll

get into

> trouble. "

>

>

>

> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for

> fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of

tendon

> rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from

exercise at

> the first sign of pain or inflammation.

>

> Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who

says the

> exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact

activities, heavy

> weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration

and

> deceleration.

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's important to be aware and concerned, but I'm sorry. I'll take the recovery I experienced over the tendon pain, any day. pennya Carnes <pj7@...> wrote: Tony, I don’t think the blasi salts are helping due to hydration, but I will write more on that later. Please reread this paragraph from an article I posted. This is written by a sports medicine doctor, not someone treating sick people. Also, he tested muscle tissue,

not infected patients. Quinolones are toxic substances just like cancer treatment. Cubist made a statement that “when we put a quinolone in a human body we know it is toxic. We just hope it kills the bacteria before it harms the person.” This was from a scientist promoting their new quinolone at a biotech conference. Do not give people on this list a sense that quinolones are safe. They may be helpful but they are not safe any more than cancer treatment is safe. a In a recent study, incubated human musculoskeletal cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found that the cells made destructive enzymes in response. Higher doses had more

severe effects, according to the study, which will be published in the May/June issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine. Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration'aAs you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro resistant) there's a huge

price to pay - I'd rather call it a superinfection than a side effect though.Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to have. So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than some government conspiracy.>> > > > > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles, as > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I hear > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS

polymerase to scan the chromosome for > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand to > be the target of quinolone abx.> > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet. If > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know.> > > > ,> > Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons. Here is a> relatively new article giving some explanation as to why.> > a> > > > sportsmedicine.about.com> > article:> > This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your response to> exercise; by Carol Krucoff:> > "Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs - including> prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect the body's> reponse to exercise

and potentially increase the risk of injury.> > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and judgment,> causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance> performence, though often at some risk. That's why the International> Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain relievers,> steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many popular> over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim, Metabolife,> Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with EPHEDRINE. Most> of these drugs have acceptable alternatives.> > > > A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently attracted the> attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been linked to> serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or

hand.> > > > Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most commonly> prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a popular> remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper> respiratory tract and urinary tract.> > > > "CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an athlete," says> Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of Medicine at> Cornell University in New York. In a recent study, incubated human> musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found that the> cells made destructive enzymes in

reponse. Higher doses had more severe> effects, according to the study, which will be published in the May/June> issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine.> > > > "In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is a slight> twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity,"> > says. "It's common for athletes to try to work through this sort> of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll get into> trouble."> > > > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for> fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of tendon> rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from exercise at> the first sign of pain or inflammation.> > Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes

, who says the> exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact activities, heavy> weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration and> deceleration.>

[Guest guest]

Penny, I hear you and appreciate the

balance. Dr. Stricker and others say the same.

However, in my case, my tendon problem was

far worse than the original disease – far worse. So I think folks on this

list need to hear all the facts and then make an educated decision. Tough to do

because no one really knows how the quinolones will affect them.

a

I think it's important to be aware and concerned, but I'm sorry. I'll

take the recovery I experienced over the tendon pain, any day.

penny

a

Carnes <pj7@...> wrote:

Tony, I don’t think the blasi salts

are helping due to hydration, but I will write more on that later. Please

reread this paragraph from an article I posted. This is written by a sports

medicine doctor, not someone treating sick people. Also, he tested muscle

tissue, not infected patients. Quinolones are toxic substances just like cancer

treatment. Cubist made a statement that “when we put a quinolone in a

human body we know it is toxic. We just hope it kills the bacteria before it

harms the person.” This was from a scientist promoting their new

quinolone at a biotech conference. Do not give people on this list a sense that

quinolones are safe. They may be helpful but they are not safe any more than

cancer treatment is safe. a

In a recent study,

incubated human musculoskeletal cells with different strengths of CIPRO and

found that the cells made destructive enzymes in response. Higher doses

had more severe effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

May/June issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration'

a

As you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the

blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole

point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my

supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers

a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely

everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro

resistant) there's a huge price to pay - I'd rather call it a

superinfection than a side effect though.

Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of

consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one

doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers

heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the

disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to

have. So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more

candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than

some government conspiracy.

>

>

>

>

>

> I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles,

as

> DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I

hear

> DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome

for

> DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand

to

> be the target of quinolone abx.

>

> I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet.

If

> anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know.

>

>

>

> ,

>

> Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons.

Here is a

> relatively new article giving some explanation as to why.

>

> a

>

>

>

> sportsmedicine.about.com

>

> article:

>

> This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your

response to

> exercise; by Carol Krucoff:

>

> " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs -

including

> prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect

the body's

> reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury.

>

> Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

judgment,

> causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration. Others may enhance

> performence, though often at some risk. That's why the

International

> Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain

relievers,

> steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many

popular

> over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim,

Metabolife,

> Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with

EPHEDRINE. Most

> of these drugs have acceptable alternatives.

>

>

>

> A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently

attracted the

> attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been

linked to

> serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or

hand.

>

>

>

> Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most

commonly

> prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a

popular

> remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper

> respiratory tract and urinary tract.

>

>

>

> " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an

athlete, " says

> Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of

Medicine at

> Cornell

University

in New York. In a

recent study,

incubated human

> musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found

that the

> cells made destructive enzymes in reponse. Higher doses had more

severe

> effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

May/June

> issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine.

>

>

>

> " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is

a slight

> twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, "

>

> says. " It's common for athletes to try to work through

this sort

> of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll

get into

> trouble. "

>

>

>

> The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for

> fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of

tendon

> rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from

exercise at

> the first sign of pain or inflammation.

>

> Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who

says the

> exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact

activities, heavy

> weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration

and

> deceleration.

>

[Guest guest]

the amount of people on the cipro / tendon list that claim that they

had a mild infection, treated by a couple of weeks of cipro and then

had side effects from cipro, (is the standard patter). The point I

wonder about, is if these people had such serious illnesses that

deserved the likes of cipro being rxed then it is little doubt IMO that

actually what they had was far more aggressive and serious than they

realized.

The fact that they go on having problems after taking cipro only for a

short while suggests to me that what ever it was that caused them to

take cipro in the first place has not been eradicated and further due

to insufficient treatment (in duration on cipro or effective abx) then

this is the REAL underlying problem. Not side effects from the drug per

say but rather its effect on the symbiosis of the tissues involved.

CNS and panic attacks screams to me to be a heightened fungi infection

taken route as a result of the potent abx. Do you then opt for proper

AF or complain forever about what the abx did?

bleu

On 1 Jun 2006, at 20:23, a Carnes wrote:

>

> Penny, I hear you and appreciate the balance. Dr. Stricker and others

> say the same.

>  

> However, in my case, my tendon problem was far worse than the original

> disease – far worse. So I think folks on this list need to hear all

> the facts and then make an educated decision. Tough to do because no

> one really knows how the quinolones will affect them.

>  

> a

>  

> I think it's important to be aware and concerned, but I'm sorry. I'll

> take the recovery I experienced over the tendon pain, any day.

>  

> penny

>

> a Carnes <pj7@...> wrote:

>> Tony, I don’t think the blasi salts are helping due to hydration, but

>> I will write more on that later. Please reread this paragraph from an

>> article I posted. This is written by a sports medicine doctor, not

>> someone treating sick people. Also, he tested muscle tissue, not

>> infected patients. Quinolones are toxic substances just like cancer

>> treatment. Cubist made a statement that “when we put a quinolone in a

>> human body we know it is toxic. We just hope it kills the bacteria

>> before it harms the person.†This was from a scientist promoting

>> their new quinolone at a biotech conference. Do not give people on

>> this list a sense that quinolones are safe. They may be helpful but

>> they are not safe any more than cancer treatment is safe. a

>>  

>> In a recent study, incubated human musculoskeletal cells

>> with different strengths of CIPRO and found that the cells made

>> destructive enzymes in response.  Higher doses had more severe

>> effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

>> May/June issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

>

> Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

> judgment, causing drowsiness or 'accelerating dehydration'

> a

> As you've observed you've made some major improvements by using the

> blasi salts and moving forward addressing hydration.This is my whole

> point you gotta look at the big picture- I believe many people at my

> supermarket waiting in the line would become fibromyalgia sufferers

> a couple of weeks after using cipro.Bacteria are absolutely

> everywhere in our anatomy when you shift your common bacteria (cipro

> resistant) there's a huge price to pay - I'd rather call it a

> superinfection  than a side effect though.

>

> Also the group from newcastle- fortunate enough to do a couple of

> consults via phone and actually spoke to the wife secretary- of one

> doc reseracher- and the questionaire filled out by most sufferers

> heavily sided with previous antibiotic usage that created the

> disease. I recall the questionaire....very good information to

> have.  So a large majority of cfs/fibro sufferers are more

> candidtaes for superinfection caused disease (aka docs office) than

> some government conspiracy.

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > 

> >

> > 

> >

> > I'm interested in maybe combining quinolones with nitroimidazoles,

> as

> > DNA damage is probably an important mechanism of the latter, and I

> hear

> > DNA gyrase is needed for the SOS polymerase to scan the chromosome

> for

> > DNA damage. (I havent confirmed this yet.) DNA gyrase I understand

> to

> > be the target of quinolone abx.

> >

> > I havent looked into the possible safety of this combo at all yet.

> If

> > anyone has reason to think it might be a bad idea, let me know.

> >

> >

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Using quinolones is playing Russian roulette with your tendons.

> Here is a

> > relatively new article giving some explanation as to why.

> >

> > a

> >

> > 

> >

> > sportsmedicine.about.com

> >

> > article:

> >

> > This is your body on drugs: common chemicals can affect your

> response to

> > exercise; by Carol Krucoff:

> >

> > " Many are unaware that a wide variety of commonly used drugs -

> including

> > prescription, over-the-counter and herbal products - can affect

> the body's

> > reponse to exercise and potentially increase the risk of injury.

> >

> > Some drugs may hurt performance by impairing coordination and

> judgment,

> > causing drowsiness or accelerating dehydration.  Others may enhance

> > performence, though often at some risk.  That's why the

> International

> > Olympic Committee has banned the use of certain stimulants, pain

> relievers,

> > steroids, diuretics and hormones. Prohibited products include many

> popular

> > over-the-counter preparations such as Acifed, Sudafed, Dexatrim,

> Metabolife,

> > Midol, Alka-Seltzer Plus, Vicks Inhaler and heral teas with

> EPHEDRINE. Most

> > of these drugs have acceptable alternatives.

> >

> > 

> >

> > A class of antibiotics called FLUOROQUINOLONES has recently

> attracted the

> > attention of sports medicine experts, because they have been

> linked to

> > serious tendon injuries, often in the Achilles, shoulder joint or

> hand.

> >

> > 

> >

> > Tendon problems are increasingly being reported as the most

> commonly

> > prescribed fluoroquinolone-a drug known as CIPRO- has become a

> popular

> > remedy for various infections, including those in the skin, upper

> > respiratory tract and urinary tract.

> >

> > 

> >

> > " CIPRO is a great drug, but I generally will NOT USE it in an

> athlete, " says

> > Riley , an orthopedic surgeon at the Weill College of

> Medicine at

> > Cornell University in New York.  In a recent study,

> incubated human

> > musculoskeletel cells with different strengths of CIPRO and found

> that the

> > cells made destructive enzymes in reponse.  Higher doses had more

> severe

> > effects, according to the study, which will be published in the

> May/June

> > issue of the American Journal fo Sports Medicine.

> >

> > 

> >

> > " In most cases, there's a (preliminary symptom), which usually is

> a slight

> > twinge of pain or soreness that occurs during or after activity, "

> >

> > says.  " It's common for athletes to try to work through

> this sort

> > of thing, but if they do that while they're on this drug, they'll

> get into

> > trouble. "

> >

> > 

> >

> > The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently updated labeling for

> > fluoroquinolones to include a warning about the possibility of

> tendon

> > rupture and to recommend stopping the drug and refraining from

> exercise at

> > the first sign of pain or inflammation.

> >

> > Yet many doctors aren't aware of this advice, notes , who

> says the

> > exercisers at greatest risk are those who do high-impact

> activities, heavy

> > weightlifting or sports involving jumping and rapid acceleration

> and

> > deceleration.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with a. The Achilles tendon pain I had after taking samento (13 days total) was the most severe pain I have ever had (except maybe for the last minutes of giving birth). I have had a lot of pain, so that's saying something! So personally, I would be afraid of trying a quinolone.- KateOn Jun 1, 2006, at 3:23 PM, a Carnes wrote:Penny, I hear you and appreciate the balance. Dr. Stricker and others say the same.However, in my case, my tendon problem was far worse than the original disease – far worse. So I think folks on this list need to hear all the facts and then make an educated decision. Tough to do because no one really knows how the quinolones will affect them.a