RE: question for resident fungal experts

[Guest guest]

Ive been on lamisil for about 5 months, and consider your reaction is

maybe a red herring. could it be co-incidence? The effects of lamisil

are not quick and take place over the course of a min of about 3

months.

bleu

On 27 May 2006, at 19:57, Penny Houle wrote:

> I've been taking lamisil for about a week, and it seems that I'm

> developing a fungal infection, not getting rid of one. Is this normal?

>

> My symptoms of fungal overgrowth, which usually relates to starting or

> discontinuing an antibiotic, almost always consists of random itching

> of the skin and base of the skull, along with raised bumps on the

> backs of my arms and legs.

>  

> I generally have very soft, smooth skin, so the fact that I'm now

> covered with bumps and my head's itching since starting the lamisil

> seems peculiar. Is this a common reaction? Or am I perhaps killing the

> wrong bug and allowing  another one to grow?

>  

> Feedback on similar reactions appreciated.

> penny

>  

>

>

> penny <pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>> I just posted the following at CFSFMexperimental. Kind of

>> interesting that Hematin seems to work for toxin removal not only in

>> porphyric patients, but in patients with lead poisoning. Hematin

>> therapy seems to apply primarily to hereditary, acute and

>> intermittent acute porphyria (not sure if it relates to acquired

>> porphyria, which Stratton believes we have but has not been heavily

>> investigated.) I do find it interesting however, that the

>> ingredients in Hematin are the same that are often discussed for PWC

>> (minus, perhaps, the iron). (I'm pretty sure the copper is included,

>> simply because the iron antagonizes it and will deplete it.

>> Interesting that zinc isn't also included)

>>

>> penny

>>

>>

>>

>> Hematin administration to an adult with lead intoxication

>> JM Lamon, BC Frykholm and DP Tschudy

>>

>> Lead poisoning and acute intermittent porphyria (AIP) may exhibit

>> similar neurologic manifestations, and they have in common elevated

>> excretion of urinary aminolevulinic acid (ALA). Despite their

>> similarities, the possible pathophysiologic connection between AIP

>> and lead poisoning in not known. Because intravenous hematin

>> administration has produced biochemical improvement in AIP, a

>> hematin trial in lead intoxication was of interest with respect to

>> some of the heme metabolism abnormalities observed in the condition.

>> Significant diminution of urinary ALA and coproporphyrin excretion

>> occurred in association with intravenous hematin administration.

>>

>> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/5/1007

>>

>> Here's a link to Hematin and its makeup.

>> I would strongly caution, however, that there are a number of

>> studies linking the use of hematin with hypercoagulation, something

>> that should be considered carefully before taking it.

>>

>> Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, corn free)

>> 100 mg

>> 167%

>>

>> Folic Acid

>> 400 mcg

>> 100%

>>

>> Vitamin B-3 (as niacin)

>> 20 mg

>> 100%

>>

>> Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl)

>> 5 mg

>> 250%

>>

>> Vitamin B-12 (as hydroxocobalamin)

>> 100 mcg

>> 1,667%

>>

>> Iron (elemental from iron aspartate)

>> 29 mg

>> 161%

>>

>> Copper (elemental from aspartate)

>> 1.5 mg

>> 75%

>>

>> Liver Tissue

>> 300 mg

>>

>> http://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/hema.html

>>

>> --- End forwarded message ---

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Penny , trying to figure out what's happening when taking ABx's both fungal and bacterial is a bit fraught , they do overlap and one mans die off is another's escalating infection . Your symptoms do not sound like a fungal infection to me. Do you have dandruff with the scalp itching ?You could interpret them as you like , I associate skin symptoms with gut infection , sweating , lymphatic ducts being the highway for the infection to spread. Increasing/decreasing the dose & observing the result is one way to go.

One thing I have found is that with us, the chronically ill ,our infections are extensive & deep seated , normal abx's regimes do not dent the infection ...My first try with AF's was a course of Spronox at full dose 400mg perday for a week . They hardly touched my infection , I lied to my doc , said they had a wonderful effect ..that led to Lamisil , I took 4 X the recommended dose for about 5 days ..that made the snot fly ..I was vindicated .fungi were my problem ..iwas then able to reduce the dose to less worrying amounts 250 per day and still perceive improvement although very small , eighteen months later [2001] my fungal symptoms went. Increased bacterial symptoms then increased..

I agree with your assessment of our position , one thing you didn't say is the fact that most doctors just don't give a dam , we have no respect from the doctors ,that situation will continue until we fight back, band together to give a collective argument ..we need to target the press , politicians ...put up a name & shame page etc, etc. Yes?...

I

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Penny HouleSent: 27 May 2006 18:57infections Subject: [infections] question for resident fungal experts

I've been taking lamisil for about a week, and it seems that I'm developing a fungal infection, not getting rid of one. Is this normal?My symptoms of fungal overgrowth, which usually relates to starting or discontinuing an antibiotic, almost always consists of random itching of the skin and base of the skull, along with raised bumps on the backs of my arms and legs.

I generally have very soft, smooth skin, so the fact that I'm now covered with bumps and my head's itching since starting the lamisil seems peculiar. Is this a common reaction? Or am I perhaps killing the wrong bug and allowing another one to grow?

Feedback on similar reactions appreciated.

penny

penny <pennyhoule@...> wrote:

I just posted the following at CFSFMexperimental. Kind of interesting that Hematin seems to work for toxin removal not only in porphyric patients, but in patients with lead poisoning. Hematin therapy seems to apply primarily to hereditary, acute and intermittent acute porphyria (not sure if it relates to acquired porphyria, which Stratton believes we have but has not been heavily investigated.) I do find it interesting however, that the ingredients in Hematin are the same that are often discussed for PWC (minus, perhaps, the iron). (I'm pretty sure the copper is included, simply because the iron antagonizes it and will deplete it. Interesting that zinc isn't also included)pennyHematin administration to an adult with lead intoxication JM Lamon, BC Frykholm and DP Tschudy Lead poisoning and acute intermittent porphyria (AIP) may exhibit similar neurologic manifestations, and they have in common elevated excretion of urinary aminolevulinic acid (ALA). Despite their similarities, the possible pathophysiologic connection between AIP and lead poisoning in not known. Because intravenous hematin administration has produced biochemical improvement in AIP, a hematin trial in lead intoxication was of interest with respect to some of the heme metabolism abnormalities observed in the condition. Significant diminution of urinary ALA and coproporphyrin excretion occurred in association with intravenous hematin administration. http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/5/1007Here's a link to Hematin and its makeup. I would strongly caution, however, that there are a number of studies linking the use of hematin with hypercoagulation, something that should be considered carefully before taking it. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, corn free)100 mg167%Folic Acid400 mcg100%Vitamin B-3 (as niacin)20 mg100%Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl)5 mg250%Vitamin B-12 (as hydroxocobalamin)100 mcg1,667%Iron (elemental from iron aspartate)29 mg161%Copper (elemental from aspartate)1.5 mg75%Liver Tissue300 mghttp://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/hema.html--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

That's interesting. It's just odd, because the lamisil is the only change I've made in my regimen in the last couple of months. pennyColourbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote: Ive been on lamisil for about 5 months, and consider your reaction is maybe a red herring. could it be co-incidence? The effects of lamisil are not quick and take place over the course of a min of about 3 months.bleuOn 27 May 2006, at 19:57, Penny Houle wrote:> I've been taking lamisil for about a week, and it seems that I'm > developing a fungal infection, not getting rid of one. Is this normal?>> My symptoms of fungal overgrowth, which usually relates to starting or > discontinuing an antibiotic, almost always consists of random itching > of the skin and base of

the skull, along with raised bumps on the > backs of my arms and legs.>  > I generally have very soft, smooth skin, so the fact that I'm now > covered with bumps and my head's itching since starting the lamisil > seems peculiar. Is this a common reaction? Or am I perhaps killing the > wrong bug and allowing another one to grow?>  > Feedback on similar reactions appreciated.> penny>  >>> penny wrote:>> I just posted the following at CFSFMexperimental. Kind of>> interesting that Hematin seems to work for toxin removal not only in>> porphyric patients, but in patients with lead poisoning. Hematin>> therapy seems to apply primarily to hereditary, acute and>> intermittent acute porphyria (not sure if it relates to acquired>> porphyria, which Stratton believes we have but has not been

heavily>> investigated.) I do find it interesting however, that the>> ingredients in Hematin are the same that are often discussed for PWC>> (minus, perhaps, the iron). (I'm pretty sure the copper is included,>> simply because the iron antagonizes it and will deplete it.>> Interesting that zinc isn't also included)>>>> penny>>>> >>>> Hematin administration to an adult with lead intoxication>> JM Lamon, BC Frykholm and DP Tschudy>>>> Lead poisoning and acute intermittent porphyria (AIP) may exhibit>> similar neurologic manifestations, and they have in common elevated>> excretion of urinary aminolevulinic acid (ALA). Despite their>> similarities, the possible pathophysiologic connection between AIP>> and lead

poisoning in not known. Because intravenous hematin>> administration has produced biochemical improvement in AIP, a>> hematin trial in lead intoxication was of interest with respect to>> some of the heme metabolism abnormalities observed in the condition.>> Significant diminution of urinary ALA and coproporphyrin excretion>> occurred in association with intravenous hematin administration.>>>> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/5/1007>>>> Here's a link to Hematin and its makeup.>> I would strongly caution, however, that there are a number of>> studies linking the use of hematin with hypercoagulation, something>> that should be considered carefully before taking it.>>>> Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, corn free)>> 100 mg>> 167%>>>> Folic Acid>> 400 mcg>>

100%>>>> Vitamin B-3 (as niacin)>> 20 mg>> 100%>>>> Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl)>> 5 mg>> 250%>>>> Vitamin B-12 (as hydroxocobalamin)>> 100 mcg>> 1,667%>>>> Iron (elemental from iron aspartate)>> 29 mg>> 161%>>>> Copper (elemental from aspartate)>> 1.5 mg>> 75%>>>> Liver Tissue>> 300 mg>>>> http://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/hema.html>>>> --- End forwarded message --->>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

I haven't had antibiotics for over 2 months now. I've only been doing betadine nasal irrigation. The fatigue, I believe is due to not having an effective antibiotic in my system, but for me, the bumps and itching are always an indicator of some kind of yeast which usually clears right up with diflucan, etc. So for this to appear when I've changed nothing in two months, but added lamisil seems odd. Yes, I agree that we somehow have to get people to take notice. I think it comes down to money. Or a very talented publicist who understands what we're up against and wants to help. penny Jaep <Jaep@...> wrote: Penny , trying to figure out what's happening when taking ABx's both fungal and bacterial is a bit fraught , they do overlap and one mans die off is another's escalating infection . Your symptoms do not sound like a fungal infection to me. Do you have dandruff with the scalp itching ?You could interpret them as you like , I associate skin symptoms with gut infection , sweating , lymphatic ducts being the highway for the infection to spread. Increasing/decreasing the dose & observing the result is one way to go. One thing I have found is that with us, the chronically ill ,our infections are extensive & deep seated , normal abx's regimes do not dent the infection ...My first try with AF's was a course of

Spronox at full dose 400mg perday for a week . They hardly touched my infection , I lied to my doc , said they had a wonderful effect ..that led to Lamisil , I took 4 X the recommended dose for about 5 days ..that made the snot fly ..I was vindicated .fungi were my problem ..iwas then able to reduce the dose to less worrying amounts 250 per day and still perceive improvement although very small , eighteen months later [2001] my fungal symptoms went. Increased bacterial symptoms then increased.. I agree with your assessment of our position , one thing you didn't say is the fact that most doctors just don't give a dam , we have no respect from the doctors ,that situation will continue until we fight back,

band together to give a collective argument ..we need to target the press , politicians ...put up a name & shame page etc, etc. Yes?... I

[Guest guest]

Isd say it might be too early to say , were all reacting diffferent

sometimes. I would not discontinue this bc of these symptoms.

bleu

On 28 May 2006, at 06:58, Penny Houle wrote:

> That's interesting. It's just odd, because the lamisil is the only

> change I've made in my regimen in the last couple of months.

>  

> penny

>

> Colourbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote:

>> Ive been on lamisil for about 5 months, and consider your reaction is

>> maybe a red herring. could it be co-incidence? The effects of lamisil

>> are not quick and take place over the course of a min of about 3

>> months.

>>

>> bleu

>> On 27 May 2006, at 19:57, Penny Houle wrote:

>>

>> > I've been taking lamisil for about a week, and it seems that I'm

>> > developing a fungal infection, not getting rid of one. Is this

>> normal?

>> >

>> > My symptoms of fungal overgrowth, which usually relates to starting

>> or

>> > discontinuing an antibiotic, almost always consists of random

>> itching

>> > of the skin and base of the skull, along with raised bumps on the

>> > backs of my arms and legs.

>> >  

>> > I generally have very soft, smooth skin, so the fact that I'm now

>> > covered with bumps and my head's itching since starting the lamisil

>> > seems peculiar. Is this a common reaction? Or am I perhaps killing

>> the

>> > wrong bug and allowing  another one to grow?

>> >  

>> > Feedback on similar reactions appreciated.

>> > penny

>> >  

>> >

>> >

>> > penny wrote:

>> >> I just posted the following at CFSFMexperimental. Kind of

>> >> interesting that Hematin seems to work for toxin removal not only

>> in

>> >> porphyric patients, but in patients with lead poisoning. Hematin

>> >> therapy seems to apply primarily to hereditary, acute and

>> >> intermittent acute porphyria (not sure if it relates to acquired

>> >> porphyria, which Stratton believes we have but has not been heavily

>> >> investigated.) I do find it interesting however, that the

>> >> ingredients in Hematin are the same that are often discussed for

>> PWC

>> >> (minus, perhaps, the iron). (I'm pretty sure the copper is

>> included,

>> >> simply because the iron antagonizes it and will deplete it.

>> >> Interesting that zinc isn't also included)

>> >>

>> >> penny

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Hematin administration to an adult with lead intoxication

>> >> JM Lamon, BC Frykholm and DP Tschudy

>> >>

>> >> Lead poisoning and acute intermittent porphyria (AIP) may exhibit

>> >> similar neurologic manifestations, and they have in common elevated

>> >> excretion of urinary aminolevulinic acid (ALA). Despite their

>> >> similarities, the possible pathophysiologic connection between AIP

>> >> and lead poisoning in not known. Because intravenous hematin

>> >> administration has produced biochemical improvement in AIP, a

>> >> hematin trial in lead intoxication was of interest with respect to

>> >> some of the heme metabolism abnormalities observed in the

>> condition.

>> >> Significant diminution of urinary ALA and coproporphyrin excretion

>> >> occurred in association with intravenous hematin administration.

>> >>

>> >> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/53/5/1007

>> >>

>> >> Here's a link to Hematin and its makeup.

>> >> I would strongly caution, however, that there are a number of

>> >> studies linking the use of hematin with hypercoagulation, something

>> >> that should be considered carefully before taking it.

>> >>

>> >> Vitamin C (ascorbic acid, corn free)

>> >> 100 mg

>> >> 167%

>> >>

>> >> Folic Acid

>> >> 400 mcg

>> >> 100%

>> >>

>> >> Vitamin B-3 (as niacin)

>> >> 20 mg

>> >> 100%

>> >>

>> >> Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxine HCl)

>> >> 5 mg

>> >> 250%

>> >>

>> >> Vitamin B-12 (as hydroxocobalamin)

>> >> 100 mcg

>> >> 1,667%

>> >>

>> >> Iron (elemental from iron aspartate)

>> >> 29 mg

>> >> 161%

>> >>

>> >> Copper (elemental from aspartate)

>> >> 1.5 mg

>> >> 75%

>> >>

>> >> Liver Tissue

>> >> 300 mg

>> >>

>> >> http://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/hema.html

>> >>

>> >> --- End forwarded message ---

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >