Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 b_neal19 wrote: >I am new to this group and have enjoyed reading all of the posts so >far. I am a graduate assistant S & C coach at the University of Southern >Mississippi and an aspiring head strength coach in a quest for as much >knowledge as my young brain can obtain. All the places I have worked >have used chains and bands for squatting and bench pressing. I have >heard mixed responses regarding training with and without both chains >and bands. I know that it may develop new neural patterns which may be >beneficial and may not be, it apparently aids stabilizers, and is a >dynamic exercise. I guess what I am asking is what, neurally or >physiologically, do chains and bands really do for athletes. Should >athletes train with them at all, and if so when is the most appropriate >time to do so? ***** As usual there is no one answer for all people for all time - which is obviously aware of, judging by how he worded his question. Chains and bands offer variable resistance and can change the centre of mass of the barbell/band/athlete unit. So they offer some variety to the training means. In my opinion using bands can be good for athletes training 'explosion' because the movement doesn't have to deaccelerate so the bar doesn't jump. So for most athletes bands have some functionality in terms of motor patterns, especially for athletes like basketball and volleyball players. But no matter how you look at it, if you use resistance to increase strength or strength/speed you still have to convert the increased strength to power and the speed of the sporting movement. So I would tend to move from a strength cycle to a strength/speed cycle (or power or speed/strength) to a conversion cycle or a speed cycle. I'd use bands for the strength/speed cycle and possibly use shock methods for conversion. -- Hobman Saskatoon, CANADA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 There is a good research article on chains and bands in the current issue of the NSCA's Strength and Conditioning Journal. Cowell Raleigh, NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Hi , Its my opinion that accomdating resistance certainly has its places. However the applications you mention (squatting and bench pressing) only really have effective carryover to Equipped Powerlifters, where the supportive equipment they use makes the bottom of the lift easier. The increased load at the top of the movement range caused by bands and chains helps powerlifters to become stronger at this 'lockout' portion of the lift thats not aided as much by the equipment. Ben Burgess, YORK, England > >Reply-To: Supertraining >To: Supertraining >Subject: Chains and Bands >Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:43:50 -0000 > >I am new to this group and have enjoyed reading all of the posts so >far. I am a graduate assistant S & C coach at the University of Southern >Mississippi and an aspiring head strength coach in a quest for as much >knowledge as my young brain can obtain. All the places I have worked >have used chains and bands for squatting and bench pressing. I have >heard mixed responses regarding training with and without both chains >and bands. I know that it may develop new neural patterns which may be >beneficial and may not be, it apparently aids stabilizers, and is a >dynamic exercise. I guess what I am asking is what, neurally or >physiologically, do chains and bands really do for athletes. Should >athletes train with them at all, and if so when is the most appropriate >time to do so? > > > Neal >Southern Miss >Hattiesburg, US > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 , Chains and bands are a form of accommodating resistance and can be used for compensatory acceleration. The main goal of this would be rate of force development (RFD) the ability to produce max strength quickly. There are three ways to increase strength, Max effort, Dynamic effort or speed effort and repetition effort. You already stated that you know they are of dynamic or speed effort. How they apply to athletics was your question. You have heard of the adage " speed kills " well in sports this is true. Think of all the sports that you move, throw, run, punch or jump. If you could execute these motions with even with a little more speed or power what the outcomes may be. For example you have an athlete who squats a 1rm of 500# it takes him 5 seconds to complete the squat from parallel to lockout. You have another athlete who squats a 1rm of 500# it takes him 2 seconds from parallel to lockout. Who do you think has more " power " ? If you apply this to an athlete who is tested for vertical leap the " more powerful " athlete will jump higher as his rate of force development is greater. Utilizing bands and chains allows one to train for speed/strength or strength/speed. You can adjust the straight weight to band or chain weight ratio to focus more on either aspect. Some may break this type of training into different cycles but it is not necessary nor do I think it is the most productive method. When you focus on one aspect too much you lose the other. If you apply this in a conjugated fashion you can train all aspects of strength/power/speed/repetition at one time in a properly managed cycle. Bottom line they help an individual produce force more quickly or call it power. This is very important in athletics as strength is important but strength with speed is paramount. Train hard and smart! Damien Chiappini SPFP Pittsburgh ------- b_neal19 wrote: <<<I am new to this group and have enjoyed reading all of the posts so far. I am a graduate assistant S & C coach at the University of Southern Mississippi and an aspiring head strength coach in a quest for as much knowledge as my young brain can obtain. All the places I have worked have used chains and bands for squatting and bench pressing. I have heard mixed responses regarding training with and without both chains and bands. I know that it may develop new neural patterns which may be beneficial and may not be, it apparently aids stabilizers, and is a dynamic exercise. I guess what I am asking is what, neurally or physiologically, do chains and bands really do for athletes. Should athletes train with them at all, and if so when is the most appropriate time to do so?>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 , I do understand what you are saying and we use them on our dynamic days. But exactly how much power or speed/strength are you developing sqautting or benching heavy with chains? It is more of a strength exercise correct? This is my impression, that if you are looking to build power in these exercises by using chains/bands, you may just want to scrap them and emphasize bar speed throughout the entire movement w/o the chains rather than maximizing speed soley at the bottom of the movement. Or is what you are saying that athletes should use the chains and bands to develop the strength needed then do supplementary routines to maximize the power and speed? Neal Southern Miss Hattiesburg, US > > >I am new to this group and have enjoyed reading all of the posts so > >far. I am a graduate assistant S & C coach at the University of Southern > >Mississippi and an aspiring head strength coach in a quest for as much > >knowledge as my young brain can obtain. All the places I have worked > >have used chains and bands for squatting and bench pressing. I have > >heard mixed responses regarding training with and without both chains > >and bands. I know that it may develop new neural patterns which may be > >beneficial and may not be, it apparently aids stabilizers, and is a > >dynamic exercise. I guess what I am asking is what, neurally or > >physiologically, do chains and bands really do for athletes. Should > >athletes train with them at all, and if so when is the most appropriate > >time to do so? > > ***** > As usual there is no one answer for all people for all time - which > is obviously aware of, judging by how he worded his question. > > Chains and bands offer variable resistance and can change the centre of > mass of the barbell/band/athlete unit. So they offer some variety to the > training means. In my opinion using bands can be good for athletes > training 'explosion' because the movement doesn't have to deaccelerate > so the bar doesn't jump. So for most athletes bands have some > functionality in terms of motor patterns, especially for athletes like > basketball and volleyball players. > > But no matter how you look at it, if you use resistance to increase > strength or strength/speed you still have to convert the increased > strength to power and the speed of the sporting movement. So I would > tend to move from a strength cycle to a strength/speed cycle (or power > or speed/strength) to a conversion cycle or a speed cycle. I'd use bands > for the strength/speed cycle and possibly use shock methods for conversion. > > -- > Hobman > Saskatoon, CANADA > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Regarding bands and chains only having effective carryover to PLs with gear: With the acc. resistance the bands and chains make you explode and essentially apply more force to the bar throughout the lift. This can have great carryover to sport. Numerous athletes can benefit from applying more force throughout the range of motion. It would have a great carryover to a football player hitting an opponent and driving right through them. A basketball player jumping through contact. How about a fighter throwing a punch, hitting the opponent, and driving right through the body/face? Bands and chains can be very beneficial in almost any sport, at the very least the sports where explosive movement is beneficial. They enable the athlete to get faster and stronger throughout the movement. Faster and stronger; always a good thing. O'Neill MS, CSCS Abington, MA > > Hi , > > Its my opinion that accomdating resistance certainly has its places. However > the applications you mention (squatting and bench pressing) only really have > effective carryover to Equipped Powerlifters, where the supportive equipment > they use makes the bottom of the lift easier. The increased load at the top > of the movement range caused by bands and chains helps powerlifters to > become stronger at this 'lockout' portion of the lift thats not aided as > much by the equipment. > > Ben Burgess, > YORK, England > > > > > >Reply-To: Supertraining > >To: Supertraining > >Subject: Chains and Bands > >Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:43:50 -0000 > > > >I am new to this group and have enjoyed reading all of the posts so > >far. I am a graduate assistant S & C coach at the University of Southern > >Mississippi and an aspiring head strength coach in a quest for as much > >knowledge as my young brain can obtain. All the places I have worked > >have used chains and bands for squatting and bench pressing. I have > >heard mixed responses regarding training with and without both chains > >and bands. I know that it may develop new neural patterns which may be > >beneficial and may not be, it apparently aids stabilizers, and is a > >dynamic exercise. I guess what I am asking is what, neurally or > >physiologically, do chains and bands really do for athletes. Should > >athletes train with them at all, and if so when is the most appropriate > >time to do so? > > > > > > Neal > >Southern Miss > >Hattiesburg, US > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 Hi , I have found an article regarding chains and bands. Please check out this site: Electromyographic and Kinetic Analysis of Traditional, Chain, and Elastic Band Squats Ebben WP, Jensen RL. http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=get-abstract & doi=10.1519%2F1533-4\ 287(2002)016%3C0547:EAKAOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2 Hope this one helps. Thank you. Pagaduan Philippines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 You can use the bands as a form of 'jumping squat' (possibly with up to 25-30% of your 1RM squat). If you don't use the bands the bar would fly off the neck (and the athlete would have a valid concern about injury which may inhibit rate of force production), so IMO it is preferable to use bands for a jumping squat than a straight bar/weight. Personally I see no point in this for most athletes - if we are training them to 'jump up with the bar' I prefer a power clean or power snatch to a jumping squat. It gives more precise feedback and tends to be a more explosive movement. But it (the jumping squat with bands) is a possible variation that some people may prefer, especially if they don't have platforms and bumper plates. Once again - for most athletes it wouldn't be my choice. I actually like a one-handed power snatch the best for that movement, which can be done with a number of implements in almost any facility. I don't know that athletes 'should' use chains and bands for absolute strength, but if they are available they 'can' be used for that purpose. Just like they 'can' be used for strength/speed in a jump squat type of application. Sorry I wasn't clearer - I got caught short on time and didn't really proof very well. Personally I would love to see most athletes squatting deeper with less weight and using the bands for accommodating resistance as opposed to heavy partials which are so prevalent. I think it is a better method than doing partials. If the posterior chain is relatively weak than I also like wide stance box squats to a low box. Even as an olympic lifter I actually prefer this movement to good mornings - just based on the theory the same movement is being trained plus some extension of the knee. Efficiency in training. Adding bands just allows more force to be used throught the movement. So I guess I'm saying they can be a variation, but aren't really necessary for most training goals. The exception, as someone noted, are powerlifters using supportive gear. It is way easier to add bands to the bench and squat than to get into a bench shirt or squat suit. -- Hobman Saskatoon, CANADA b_neal19 wrote: >, I do understand what you are saying and we use them on our >dynamic days. But exactly how much power or speed/strength are you >developing sqautting or benching heavy with chains? It is more of a >strength exercise correct? This is my impression, that if you are >looking to build power in these exercises by using chains/bands, you >may just want to scrap them and emphasize bar speed throughout the >entire movement w/o the chains rather than maximizing speed soley at >the bottom of the movement. Or is what you are saying that athletes >should use the chains and bands to develop the strength needed then >do supplementary routines to maximize the power and speed? > > Neal >Southern Miss >Hattiesburg, US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2006 Report Share Posted May 26, 2006 I am sorry if this is the wrong protocol, but it has been so long since I joined, and I am a lurker, so I do not know the SOP. In terms of the use of accomodating resistance for athletic gains, the ability to produce force is one aspect, but the other is the training of firing patterns. What I am getting at is this: we all know strength is rate specific. So, a powerlifter may be very strong along most of the force curve, but may be weaker than a sprinter when rates get very fast. The machines used by PT's in rehabbing knee patients (where the rate of movement for the arm is set) is a prime example of this. I am nowhere near many of my other trainers in terms of force production at slow speeds, but kill them once the rate of the cam arm is set to very fast... How does this relate to accomodating resistance? Accomodating resistance trains the muscles in much the same way as a normal squat, only even more opposite of real sporting movements.... take the squat for instance. The muscles are taught to contract and hold for the duration of the lift. With AR, this resistance GROWS as lockout is neared, so the speed of movement actually slows in many instances.... so what is this ingraining neurally? In a normal sporting movement, the speed increases, so power must be increased through more RATE production, not by moving closer to the Isometric side of the equation.... This also doesn't address one of the biggest differentiators among athletes which is the ability to release muscular tension instantly.... Which stright weight, and even more so AR work against...they are duration of contraction methods.... I do agree that AR should be used for a MaxS (Strength) or MaxF (Force) cycle. But, much like running with a weighted sled, or with bungees for resistance, the next wave of the cycle of a MaxF cycle should be with straight weight. Dynamic Squats with bands, followed by jump squats to move towards the actual firing pattern found within sporting movement. Weightroom training has a MUSCULAR and NEURAL training effect. We are able to, and should, manipulate both to move the athlete towards sports mastery as best possible within the weightroom. Haworth, CSCS Director of Training Athletic Matrix, Inc. Tampa, FL ------- mroneill44 wrote: <<<Regarding bands and chains only having effective carryover to PLs with gear: With the acc. resistance the bands and chains make you explode and essentially apply more force to the bar throughout the lift. This can have great carryover to sport. Numerous athletes can benefit from applying more force throughout the range of motion. It would have a great carryover to a football player hitting an opponent and driving right through them. A basketball player jumping through contact. How about a fighter throwing a punch, hitting the opponent, and driving right through the body/face? Bands and chains can be very beneficial in almost any sport, at the very least the sports where explosive movement is beneficial. They enable the athlete to get faster and stronger throughout the movement. Faster and stronger; always a good thing.>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Why did they only replace %10 of the load? EMG probably isn't sensitive enough to detect any changes with that small a difference if there are any. Dan Leib Muncie, IN --- jep pagaduan wrote: > Hi , > > I have found an article regarding chains and > bands. Please check out this site: > > > Electromyographic and Kinetic Analysis of > Traditional, Chain, and Elastic Band Squats > Ebben WP, Jensen RL. > > > http://nsca.allenpress.com/nscaonline/?request=get-abstract & doi=10.1519%2F1533-4\ 287(2002)016%3C0547:EAKAOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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