Newcastle

[Guest guest]

So Tony what specifically are the findings?

I know about the staph toxin vaccine trial they did, and how CFSers

improved from it. Pretty impressive. I keep that on the table and think

about it sometimes. My main thing there is that I dont know enough to

know whether a vaccination could have some sort of a non-specific

effect that would make people feel better. So I dont know if I can

conclude staph toxin is involved in the disease.

I know about the urine metabolite CFSUM1 or whatever. I think thats

what was disconfirmed by another group.

Is there anything else? Do they have data on subtle differences in red

cell counts, or is that data that you have on yourself?

Personally, my *guess* is that even if someone has CFS/etc from staph,

the primary issue with getting rid of it is *not* going to be specific

drug resistences... rather it will be physiologic resistance due to the

staph being in a slow growth state. I know this doesnt tally all that

well with your and Pennys experiences tho. But it does tally with lots

of other stuff so I keep trying with it.

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you keep with it, . I think there may very well be a physiologic factor involved. It's just that the only people I know who've really recovered have done aggressive, multiple antimicrobial therapies. If people won't start acknowledging the bugs themselves, how will we ever make any headway in finding effective methods to combat the bugs' foothold???? penny <usenethod@...> wrote: So Tony what specifically are the findings?I know about the staph toxin vaccine trial they did, and how CFSers improved from it. Pretty impressive. I keep that on the table and think about it sometimes. My main thing there is that I dont know enough to know whether a vaccination could have some sort of a non-specific effect that would

make people feel better. So I dont know if I can conclude staph toxin is involved in the disease.I know about the urine metabolite CFSUM1 or whatever. I think thats what was disconfirmed by another group.Is there anything else? Do they have data on subtle differences in red cell counts, or is that data that you have on yourself?Personally, my *guess* is that even if someone has CFS/etc from staph, the primary issue with getting rid of it is *not* going to be specific drug resistences... rather it will be physiologic resistance due to the staph being in a slow growth state. I know this doesnt tally all that well with your and Pennys experiences tho. But it does tally with lots of other stuff so I keep trying with it.

[Guest guest]

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

> I think there may very well be a physiologic factor involved. It's

just that the only people I know who've really recovered have done

aggressive, multiple antimicrobial therapies.

These things dont contradict, tho. Heavy combo treatment is just whats

called for by the way I'm seeing things.

I've always been totally in favor of combo treatment, but havent had a

close molecular rationale for that view. Now I think I do. I'm seeing

some really new perspectives lately. I still need to work some stuff

out tho.

[Guest guest]

The red cells are just my own observations they just don't look

great if you have fibro or even MS. The subtle changes of the cells

should be where you'd want people to look closer(toxin mediated IMO)

instead of trying to unlock the genetic code of the dna fragments

that seems to be what the researchers try and do- whenever anything

stands out like a sore thumb it's ignored IMO.

The newcastle group would look carefully at the toxin expression of

the sinus bacteria. The autism cfs link pretty much was observed at

the first hurdle.I do recall the cfsers where right alongside the

autistic group with the sinus swab and toxin expression data that

was available early in the piece. The part of the picture that

didn't work in cfs was the treatment, no-one is willing to do

anything outside the box especially not the newcastle research team.

You clearly saw the Blood borne bacteria article of earlier in the

week and what was required. as you can observe no-one is practising

like that outside of a few of us die hards that can get drugs.

Double antibiotic regimes don't even truly exist...It's pretty

STUPID to think that a sinus cavity which rates very diseased isn't

going to impact the brain- often the brain is mere millimeters away

and INFLAMMATION has never, ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of

medicine confined itself to a small corner of the anatomy.. like I

think I'm only going to fry a little of this persons fringe- as if

inflammation is that well contained and trim and proper in it's

presentation( bring on the brain lesions(jk)) IMO.

tony

>

> So Tony what specifically are the findings?

>

> I know about the staph toxin vaccine trial they did, and how

CFSers

> improved from it. Pretty impressive. I keep that on the table and

think

> about it sometimes. My main thing there is that I dont know enough

to

> know whether a vaccination could have some sort of a non-specific

> effect that would make people feel better. So I dont know if I can

> conclude staph toxin is involved in the disease.

>

> I know about the urine metabolite CFSUM1 or whatever. I think

thats

> what was disconfirmed by another group.

>

> Is there anything else? Do they have data on subtle differences in

red

> cell counts, or is that data that you have on yourself?

>

> Personally, my *guess* is that even if someone has CFS/etc from

staph,

> the primary issue with getting rid of it is *not* going to be

specific

> drug resistences... rather it will be physiologic resistance due

to the

> staph being in a slow growth state. I know this doesnt tally all

that

> well with your and Pennys experiences tho. But it does tally with

lots

> of other stuff so I keep trying with it.

>

[Guest guest]

well that's definitely what I like to hear. Keep us posted. penny <usenethod@...> wrote: <pennyhoule@...> wrote:> I think there may very well be a physiologic factor involved. It's just that the only people I know who've really recovered have done aggressive, multiple antimicrobial therapies.These things dont contradict, tho. Heavy combo treatment is just whats called for by the way I'm seeing things. I've always been totally in favor of combo treatment, but havent had a close molecular rationale for that view. Now I think I do. I'm seeing some really new perspectives lately. I still need to work some stuff out tho.

[Guest guest]

I aggree with agressive multiple antimicrobial therapy, and switching

around a lot. I really think that is the ticket. You have got to find

a doctor that is willing to get very agressive. I think the key is

getting a doc that can understand your severity, and the alternative

for you in not getting aggressive. I actually took it a step further

and added more abx to the already agressive treatment. Many docs are

scared to treat. They don't want the liability of hurting you. Most

don't understand how benign the long term antibiotic treatment can be

to your system. There are three things that I always emphatically

stress to my doc that aI am doing. They are: 1) Take lots of

acidophilous. 2) Take good milk thistle. 3) Drink lots of water. I

want my doc to be positive that I am helping them to help me while

staying out of trouble. Last report of my organs show excellent liver

and kidney enzymes. I attribute this to quality milk thistle twice a

day while on macs or kets (liver metabolized), and lots and lots of

water while on any antibiotic, but especially for doxy or mino

(kidney excretion), as you must keep what's in the kidney's VERY

DILUTE with water. Try for a gallon a day.

> > I think there may very well be a physiologic factor involved.

It's

> just that the only people I know who've really recovered have done

> aggressive, multiple antimicrobial therapies.

>

> These things dont contradict, tho. Heavy combo treatment is just

whats

> called for by the way I'm seeing things.

>

> I've always been totally in favor of combo treatment, but havent

had a

> close molecular rationale for that view. Now I think I do. I'm

seeing

> some really new perspectives lately. I still need to work some

stuff

> out tho.

>

>

>

>

>

>