Re: What causes Jarisch-Herxheimer reactions ?

[Guest guest]

Bleu, you aren’t the only one who has

had amazing help from quinolones. I’m glad for you. I just know that

there is good documentation now that they CAN both damage tendons and CNS. If

anyone wants to take them they must be aware of the symptoms. Even then they

must be willing to take a huge risk, namely that folks have experienced damage

the first week on the antibiotic and found it did not improve for months to

years. Furthermore the CNS damage will feel just like cfs or Lyme disease

including anxiety attacks, mental confusion, nerve pain, etc.

Anyone who is thinking of taking Cipro,

Levaquin, Avalox or samento should read the two articles I sent today, print

them and save them.

Hope this is helpful to some.

a

I also joined that list,

and I was not convinced that what many complained about was not specifically

due to side effects of cipro, more convincing was the damage by the bacteria,

poss. when it died.

I am here only bc cipro saved my life.

bleu

[Guest guest]

I am unsure, I feel that cns damage could actually be fungi damage /

worsened on cipro.

The point is the scare stories can do as much damage as can the drugs

if not more.

we need to be aware of the battle and consider all the choices. I agree.

bleu

On 31 May 2006, at 22:21, a Carnes wrote:

> Bleu, you aren’t the only one who has had amazing help from

> quinolones. I’m glad for you. I just know that there is good

> documentation now that they CAN both damage tendons and CNS. If anyone

> wants to take them they must be aware of the symptoms. Even then they

> must be willing to take a huge risk, namely that folks have

> experienced damage the first week on the antibiotic and found it did

> not improve for months to years. Furthermore the CNS damage will feel

> just like cfs or Lyme disease including anxiety attacks, mental

> confusion, nerve pain, etc.

>  

> Anyone who is thinking of taking Cipro, Levaquin, Avalox or samento

> should read the two articles I sent today, print them and save them.

>  

> Hope this is helpful to some.

>  

> a

>  

>  

>

> I also joined that list, and I was not convinced that what many

> complained about was not specifically due to side effects of cipro,

> more convincing was the damage by the bacteria, poss. when it died.

>

> I am here only bc cipro saved my life.

>

> bleu

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll give you the website. http://www.thearthritiscenter.com/arthritis_info.htm It's apparent pretty quickly why I'd think I'd be in good hands, considering how many organisms they have on their website. However, after thousands of dollars worth of tests to be dx'd with nothing more than fms, needless to say, I was not so impressed. When I asked about treatment for the osteomyelitis in my jaw, I was told they didn't know anything about treating OM, which I'd been clear about when I first was seen. Of course, you don't actually get seen by THE doctor on your first visit, your history and tests are handled by an associate...who was by far the nice one of the bunch. Supplements were suggested, I said no thanks, but got them a week or so later in

the mail, charged to my visa without my approval. I was too sick to do anything about it. Still have the unopened bottles. pennya Carnes <pj7@...> wrote: Penny, boy, would I like to know who this was off list. PJ7@...

[Guest guest]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this topic. I just don't know. I also felt that cipro saved my life, and then some months later developed really bad tendons in my right arm/elbow that are just now normalizing. Also both shoulders got really messed up. I've been afraid to do any more quinolones since then, but at the same time, I'm not sure if it's due to the drug, or if it was a side effect from bugs being killed. I do feel it was one of the most effective abx I ever took, right up there with penicillin. My doc also said he's never seen a case of cipro-caused tendon damage, but had seen quite a few cases involving levaquin. It's really hard to say what's going on for sure. pennyColourbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote: I also joined that list, and I was not

convinced that what many complained about was not specifically due to side effects of cipro, more convincing was the damage by the bacteria, poss. when it died.I am here only bc cipro saved my life.bleuOn 31 May 2006, at 20:03, a Carnes wrote:>> Hi Tony,> I certainly understand your not wanting to take just one person’s > experience. I joined a list for folks with quinolone damage. The list > was huge and the complaints all matched. Most on the list were no more > than 40 yrs old. Did you notice that the first post on this was about > teenage kids in Africa who had strange arthritic pain after being > given Cipro?>  > I can send you documentation on this also if you are interested.>  > a>  >  >> I think there's a piano accordion effect on your cardiovascular> system with cipro due to

it's super huge blood thinning ability and> it's capability of killing heaps of bugs at the atomic end of> protein and bacterial gathering abilities.I just don't like using> simplicity I prefer to gather first hand events of people before I> buy what is being preached - Sorry a it's just the way thinks> stack up often.> tony> \>>>> > > >> > > Hi Tony,> > >> > > I am glad you wrote this. I have also heard the Lyme docs state> > that> > > quinolones can be amazing. However, I would suspect that the> > strange> > > arthritic pains of the African children are NOT rebounding> > infections, but> > > the rather permanent damage from the quinolones. The> documentation> > of this> > > reality is quite extensive now. I certainly am one small> example.> > The pain> > > and damage is completely different from any symptom prior to

the> > quinolones.> > >> > > I am now finding relief by taking massive doses of magnesium> > taurinate,> > > which Rich V recommended to me, and drinking Recuperation. My> > hunch is those> > > African kids are malnourished and their magnesium levels are> > depleted by> > > infection and poor diet. They would be sitting ducks for tendon> > damage. What> > > is really scary is that quinolones can cause permanent CNS> damage.> > Are we> > > looking at a massive surge in mental illness with no clue where> it> > is coming> > > from?> > >> > > a> > >> > >Â > > >> > >> > > There's a rebound problem I find with quinolones- african kids> > that> > > suffered meningitis

outbreaks have been left with some pretty> > > strange arthritic complaints at 12 years of age from this group> of> > > drugs.I feel it kills a lot of bugs quickly but when the bugs> pick> > > up the resistant traits they come back at you 100 miles per> hour.> > > Also these drugs are very poor bone penetrators which makes> those> > > tough deep down bugs a bad rebound to get.I just can't really> see> > > where this group of drugs best fits in therapies but I wouldn't> > > trust them on there own- they are no penicillins.You'll also> > notice> > > Bleu had cipro and loved it, but he also did it alongside> > > clarithromyacin.> > > tony> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

[Guest guest]

PAula

I've experimented enough with cipro possably done 20 plus scripts,

high dose(6 TIMES 750 MG DOSE) episodes and have no fear or find

placing the blame at the feet of the drug is 100% correct. I do

believe that these people truly have problems stemming from the

drugs impact on the body -BUT THERE " S A HUGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN MY

COMMUNITY AND I'M SURE MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO ARE JUST DISASTERS

WAITING TO HAPPEN, AND THIS IS WHERE A DRUG FROM THE QUIMNOLONE

GROUP GIVING A FEW EPISODES OF THE PIANO ACCORDION EFFECT WILL DO

THEM IN..I personally would have no problems doing cipro tommorrow

but I also respect the bugs that are being killed need to be kept

dead by using a combo treatment.Cirpo is the new viagra for me.(just

joking)

a there's also a strong reason why 4 times as many woman are

struck down with autoimmune disorders. I'm sure the commonsense of

stressing the body with fluctuating vasoconstricting hormones that

allow oppurtunistic pathoegens to strike may be at the heart of

things and possably why the med are often not yet debiloitated just

wounded carriers. I would also thinmk you'd pay attention when

observing what a diseased cardiovascular system looks like DR. OZ on

oprah. The inflammation thru the body of the patients is DEVASTATING

so keeping an eye on dropping inflammation at all costs is my focus.

> > >

> > > Hi Tony,

> > >

> > > I am glad you wrote this. I have also heard the Lyme docs

state

> > that

> > > quinolones can be amazing. However, I would suspect that the

> > strange

> > > arthritic pains of the African children are NOT rebounding

> > infections, but

> > > the rather permanent damage from the quinolones. The

> documentation

> > of this

> > > reality is quite extensive now. I certainly am one small

> example.

> > The pain

> > > and damage is completely different from any symptom prior to

the

> > quinolones.

> > >

> > > I am now finding relief by taking massive doses of magnesium

> > taurinate,

> > > which Rich V recommended to me, and drinking Recuperation. My

> > hunch is those

> > > African kids are malnourished and their magnesium levels are

> > depleted by

> > > infection and poor diet. They would be sitting ducks for

tendon

> > damage. What

> > > is really scary is that quinolones can cause permanent CNS

> damage.

> > Are we

> > > looking at a massive surge in mental illness with no clue

where

> it

> > is coming

> > > from?

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There's a rebound problem I find with quinolones- african kids

> > that

> > > suffered meningitis outbreaks have been left with some pretty

> > > strange arthritic complaints at 12 years of age from this

group

> of

> > > drugs.I feel it kills a lot of bugs quickly but when the bugs

> pick

> > > up the resistant traits they come back at you 100 miles per

> hour.

> > > Also these drugs are very poor bone penetrators which makes

> those

> > > tough deep down bugs a bad rebound to get.I just can't really

> see

> > > where this group of drugs best fits in therapies but I

wouldn't

> > > trust them on there own- they are no penicillins.You'll also

> > notice

> > > Bleu had cipro and loved it, but he also did it alongside

> > > clarithromyacin.

> > > tony

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Great point about the vacular fluctuations in women. My migraines are definitely tied to vasucalar/hormonal changes. No doubt about it. penny dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: PAulaI've experimented enough with cipro possably done 20 plus scripts, high dose(6 TIMES 750 MG DOSE) episodes and have no fear or find placing the blame at the feet of the drug is 100% correct. I do believe that these people truly have problems stemming from the drugs impact on the body -BUT THERE"S A HUGE GROUP OF PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY AND I'M SURE MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO ARE JUST DISASTERS WAITING TO HAPPEN, AND THIS IS WHERE A DRUG FROM THE QUIMNOLONE GROUP GIVING A FEW EPISODES OF THE PIANO ACCORDION EFFECT WILL DO THEM IN..I

personally would have no problems doing cipro tommorrow but I also respect the bugs that are being killed need to be kept dead by using a combo treatment.Cirpo is the new viagra for me.(just joking)a there's also a strong reason why 4 times as many woman are struck down with autoimmune disorders. I'm sure the commonsense of stressing the body with fluctuating vasoconstricting hormones that allow oppurtunistic pathoegens to strike may be at the heart of things and possably why the med are often not yet debiloitated just wounded carriers. I would also thinmk you'd pay attention when observing what a diseased cardiovascular system looks like DR. OZ on oprah. The inflammation thru the body of the patients is DEVASTATING so keeping an eye on dropping inflammation at all costs is my focus. > > >> > > Hi Tony,> > > > > > I am glad you wrote this. I have also heard the Lyme docs state > > that> > > quinolones can be amazing. However, I would suspect that the > > strange> > > arthritic pains of the African children are NOT rebounding > > infections, but> > > the rather permanent damage from the quinolones. The > documentation > > of this> > > reality is quite extensive now. I certainly am one small > example. > > The pain> > > and damage is completely different from any symptom prior to the > > quinolones.> > > > > > I am now finding relief by taking massive doses of magnesium > >

taurinate,> > > which Rich V recommended to me, and drinking Recuperation. My > > hunch is those> > > African kids are malnourished and their magnesium levels are > > depleted by> > > infection and poor diet. They would be sitting ducks for tendon > > damage. What> > > is really scary is that quinolones can cause permanent CNS > damage. > > Are we> > > looking at a massive surge in mental illness with no clue where > it > > is coming> > > from?> > > > > > a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a rebound problem I find with quinolones- african kids > > that > > > suffered meningitis outbreaks have been left with some pretty > > > strange arthritic complaints at 12 years of age from this

group > of > > > drugs.I feel it kills a lot of bugs quickly but when the bugs > pick > > > up the resistant traits they come back at you 100 miles per > hour. > > > Also these drugs are very poor bone penetrators which makes > those > > > tough deep down bugs a bad rebound to get.I just can't really > see > > > where this group of drugs best fits in therapies but I wouldn't > > > trust them on there own- they are no penicillins.You'll also > > notice > > > Bleu had cipro and loved it, but he also did it alongside > > > clarithromyacin.> > > tony> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >