biofilms

[Guest guest]

> Once the bacteria attached themselves to the surface of the

> prosthesis they form a slime envelope that protects them against the

> action of antibiotics and the immune defense of the body. Moreover,

> adherence to a surface also changes the characteristics of the

> adhering bacteria, among others their resistance to antibiotics

> increases 100 to 1000 times.

Ah, but why (and is it every member of the population or just a few)?

Kim (very good author) has a great new (or maybe I missed it

before) paper on this, found here - its free full text:

http://protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v70/full/70020327.html

[Guest guest]

On May 9, 2006, at 6:43 PM, wrote:Kim (very good author) has a great new (or maybe I missed it before) paper on this, found here - its free full text: http://protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v70/full/70020327.htmlFascinating!"Persisters are essentially altruistic cells that forfeit rapid propagation, which ensures survival of the population of kin cells in the presence of lethal factors.""Identification of persister genes is an important first step in understanding recalcitrance of biofilms to antibiotic therapy, and it is likely to shed light on other related but poorly understood phenomena involving a dormant state, such as latent Mycobacterium tuberculosis infection, “Viable But Not Culturable Bacteria” and “uncultivable” bacteria."- Kate

[Guest guest]

Excellent article, . I parked it in the links section.

Re: your question. I feel pretty confident that this is a pretty

common, yet overlooked situation for a lot of the chronically ill.

penny

>

>

> > Once the bacteria attached themselves to the surface of the

> > prosthesis they form a slime envelope that protects them against

the

> > action of antibiotics and the immune defense of the body.

Moreover,

> > adherence to a surface also changes the characteristics of the

> > adhering bacteria, among others their resistance to antibiotics

> > increases 100 to 1000 times.

>

> Ah, but why (and is it every member of the population or just a

few)?

>

> Kim (very good author) has a great new (or maybe I missed it

> before) paper on this, found here - its free full text:

>

>

http://protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v70/full/70020327.html

>

[Guest guest]

Well, that was kind of harsh, Tony.

But I do share the frustration, watching so many people running off

after the exotic without first ruling out the obvious.

But it's the medical establishment that's at fault here, not

patients. Because it's so much easier to ignore what's obvious and

brainwash us into accepting what they say about ordinary bugs rather

than admit that they've got a really big problem on their hands.

It's the medical establishment that's convinced us that we've got an

exotic, untreatable illness, so it's only natural that we look for

something inscrutable and out of the ordinary. The general public

has no understanding of microbes and their toxic byproducts at all.

Even doctors are ill informed. How can that be?

This is why we're not getting anywhere as a community, aren't

changing the tide of physician apathy, because we're always chasing

the end of some new rainbow instead of demanding that our docs get

back to basics, test what should be easily testable and rule

specific organisms in or out before passing the buck to " unknown "

causes and prescribing generic treatments or no treatments, or

supplements, that often make the problems worse.

It still drives me nuts that if I were a bird, I'd have a much

better chance for the correct treatment than I do as a human.

I pray that I can win the lottery or find a benefactor who'd be

willing to fund a lab and/or research where we can get all the

testing we need, collect the data, (while simultaneously getting a

leg up on all these organisms), and publish the results. Make the

world stop ignoring us and finally start taking this thing seriously.

Oh, and as a bonus, I want a publicity blitz until everyone out

there gets the word that every time they sit down in a dental chair,

or have any kind of treatment that is at all invasive, in an

inpatient or outpatient setting, that they're putting themselves at

risk and should be covered prophylactically to prevent being

infected with resistant bugs. Heck, something as simple as getting a

tatoo, or piercing, under the right conditions and circumstances,

could potentially be very bad news to a person's future health.

I sincerely hope this can be realized before I die.

penny

>

> Bleu

> There's been a thousand posts on this forum as far as using

> antifungals because they are actually better than antibiotics in

> addressing bacterial problems.I was listening to your six months

of

> ranting and raving about some form of crisis you were having and I

> even dropped helping someone cause they took your information and

> placed it at the feet of there ID doctor instead of looking for

> minor pathogens and moving into a new window of oppurtunity with

> there doc.I have been telling you that 2 antibiotics and an

> antifungal addressing 'INFECTIOUS causes' is the only smart money

> bet in this ilness and you have finally joined the bandwagon and

> even listed your symptoms and probnlems which are absolutely

> screaming INFECTION, INFECTION, INFECTION and the fact that you

seem

> to have a few bony issues the tough drugs are the better money bet.

> I actually am surprised you haven't started using these

antifungals

> LOW DOSE like you did your other antimicrobials.

> tony

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

That wasn't harsh it showed a lack of appreciation over 2 years of

posting. I was furious last time someone told me they gave this

whole bleu spiel to there ID doctor, as if he is going to do

anything about endocrinology issues.( I threw my hands in the air

and told her sorry I can't help you after- that epsiode with her ID)

I recall licorice was the supplement of choice, now we have the

fungal drugs being succesfull and the fungus's must be causing the

biofilms. If you don't put a clamp on it it becomes self fueling

and you end up like the Rich driven glutathione everything forum.I

don't think I've seen any cured posts on glutathione replenishment

and it comes from a person who is hypothesising 'without viewing'

one cfs/fibromyalgia person.

If you want to detox seriously get DIALYSIS.

If you want to improve get a BLOOD TRANSFUSION to get some healthy

red cells circulating to do all the trucking of cells back and forth.

STop talking chamomile when you need chaemo...let's get things into

perspective.

> >

> > Bleu

> > There's been a thousand posts on this forum as far as using

> > antifungals because they are actually better than antibiotics in

> > addressing bacterial problems.I was listening to your six months

> of

> > ranting and raving about some form of crisis you were having and

I

> > even dropped helping someone cause they took your information

and

> > placed it at the feet of there ID doctor instead of looking for

> > minor pathogens and moving into a new window of oppurtunity with

> > there doc.I have been telling you that 2 antibiotics and an

> > antifungal addressing 'INFECTIOUS causes' is the only smart

money

> > bet in this ilness and you have finally joined the bandwagon and

> > even listed your symptoms and probnlems which are absolutely

> > screaming INFECTION, INFECTION, INFECTION and the fact that you

> seem

> > to have a few bony issues the tough drugs are the better money

bet.

> > I actually am surprised you haven't started using these

> antifungals

> > LOW DOSE like you did your other antimicrobials.

> > tony

> >

>

[Guest guest]

bleu said:I actually found (by trial and error) the 2-3 antibiotics that cured this infection, from the aggressive form that it was, back in about 2001-2. These as I have always said were Cipro, Biaxin, and Pristenamycine. I did try maybe 10 other abx that did not work. Tony,Are you for or against probing with different abx to see what might work? I hear you cautioning that one can grow an infection with the wrong abx (due to bacterial competition issues I think). But as you know, many of us can't seem to figure out how to get something cultured to test for which abx our bacteria are susceptible to. Take my own case. I have a Lyme diagnosis and have seen some progress on typical Lyme abx regimens, but I'm not sure I am still making progress. I have a life now, but am still not functioning like a normal person. I still have significant joint pain and some fatigue.Do you think it would be worth a probe with a penicillin or cephalasporin to see whether my joint issues might be due to an organism that isn't being killed off by my Lyme treatment? I did do three weeks of amoxy, and had very sore ear cartilage, but that seems to be a herx reaction from graham negative organisms, no? I mean, you are always saying that the proper drug would make one feel better. I do remember back the year I got sick and had three weeks of penicillin tor a resistant strep throat and all my symptoms improved a bit, but of course the doc didn't think that meant anything because she just thought I was a mental case due to all the weird symptoms I was suddenly reporting.I am still confused about amoxy vs pen v. Schard says pen is preferable for Lyme but Burrascano says amoxy. I understand pen is more specific while amoxy kills off more different bacteria. What bacteria is it that you think are usually in joints, and what is it usually susceptible to, or is it just impossible to guess?- Kate

[Guest guest]

Kate

I highly recommend you probe. The thing is there's a huge difference

between people treating real problems and people given treatment for

supporting the immune system.-When you say your therapy helped you

you gotta realise that drugs only go in certain places, they

basically diffuse and provide relief to lungs, or bone, skin?You

gotta understand the size of your monsters and keep the pressue on

them, that is something only you can discover as there are so many

variables in these ilnesses you only had to read bleu's post where

he mentions some of his symptomology.

Penicillin cures due to it's ability to be used at MEGA DOSE. The

other drugs AIN " T a 20 th century wonder drug they are IMO poor

performers, even the cephalasporins ain't doing the job of

penicillin.

-- In infections , Kate

<KateDunlay@...> wrote:

>

> bleu said:

> > I actually found (by trial and error) the 2-3 antibiotics that

> > cured this infection, from the aggressive form that it was, back

in

> > about 2001-2. These as I have always said were Cipro, Biaxin,

and

> > Pristenamycine. I did try maybe 10 other abx that did not work.

>

> Tony,

>

> Are you for or against probing with different abx to see what

might

> work? I hear you cautioning that one can grow an infection with

the

> wrong abx (due to bacterial competition issues I think). But as

you

> know, many of us can't seem to figure out how to get something

> cultured to test for which abx our bacteria are susceptible to.

Take

> my own case. I have a Lyme diagnosis and have seen some progress

on

> typical Lyme abx regimens, but I'm not sure I am still making

> progress. I have a life now, but am still not functioning like a

> normal person. I still have significant joint pain and some

fatigue.

>

> Do you think it would be worth a probe with a penicillin or

> cephalasporin to see whether my joint issues might be due to an

> organism that isn't being killed off by my Lyme treatment? I did

do

> three weeks of amoxy, and had very sore ear cartilage, but that

seems

> to be a herx reaction from graham negative organisms, no? I mean,

you

> are always saying that the proper drug would make one feel better.

I

> do remember back the year I got sick and had three weeks of

> penicillin tor a resistant strep throat and all my symptoms

improved

> a bit, but of course the doc didn't think that meant anything

because

> she just thought I was a mental case due to all the weird symptoms

I

> was suddenly reporting.

>

> I am still confused about amoxy vs pen v. Schard says pen is

> preferable for Lyme but Burrascano says amoxy. I understand pen

is

> more specific while amoxy kills off more different bacteria. What

> bacteria is it that you think are usually in joints, and what is

it

> usually susceptible to, or is it just impossible to guess?

>

> - Kate

>

[Guest guest]

What are biofilms?

On Jan 16, 2010, at 7:24 AM, wrote:

> There are a lot of posts about biofilms. Some use the enzymes -kinase

products. There are several scientific articles that point out the influence of

several products on biofilms :

[Guest guest]

Hi: I'm new to the group, but my doc gave me a product called

INTERFACE PLUS, by Klaire Labs. This is supposed to flush out the bio-

film that sticks to the cells in the gastrointestinal wall area. You

want to start slow though. Start with one tablet between meals. Try

one and see how it feels. I'm also taking a homeopathic product called

Unda (four different types) to clear the die-off from all other forms

of lyme. Its works well for me. Lastly, I take Organic TripleFiber by

Renew Life for digestion and to clear die-off as well. It's reasonably

priced thru Vitacost.com for 12.50. The Interface Plus is around

31.00, and you can get thru Emerson Ecologies. Unda can be obtained

thru a naturopath as well as the interface Plus. I was tested by my

clinical nutritionist on Unda prodcuts, and other products that I take

as well. I hope this helps.

Be well,

Yoohs

susan@...

831-335-1842

" America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and

lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. " -

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