Nelly

May 1, 2006

Bruxism may be worth considering as a headache cause. But in my

experience (accumulated when I was less knowledgeable) its tough

going to learn about bruxism, and I know you cant read for very long

each day. The problem was, I found much more informal knowledge than

highly scientific knowledge.

Personally I dont know any reason these agents might cause bruxism,

other than herx, which sounds rather implausible. But you never know.

There are a few antibruxism devices out there. The grindalert and the

other wake-up device (forget the name), I never found out much about

that I considered highly reliable. The device I went with, the NTI,

is not 100% effective in my experience, but invaluble anytime I have

to take anythimg monoaminergic (like isoniazid, or recently I've been

trying tramadol for weather flares; both make me brux like a monster

resulting in day-ruining mild-but-untreatable headaches). The NTI is

also kind of unpleasant to wear so I'm glad I dont have a bruxism

probelm except on monoaminergic drugs.

" Nelly Pointis " <janel@...> wrote:

>

> Penny,

>

> Thanks for your concern. All the abx that work (ie: that help me

with all symptoms incl brain fog, fatigue, feeling fluey etc) seem to

also give me a really bad headache after a few days on them. I am

forever trying to juggle the treatments so that I can treat and yet

not get the absolutely horrific headaches that seem to be the result

of treatment working.

>

> I don't know exactly what causes them, they sure feel like

Intercranial Hypertension but as I don't go to doctors no more, I

don't have tests for anything! I see my ID specialist every 3 months

and that's it. I don't think he believes in what most other doctors

do any more than I do, this is why I can bear to see him 4 times a

year!

>

> My headaches don't respond to ANYTHING, antiinflammatories

(ibuprofen), aspirin, paracetamol, don't even touch them, not one

tiny bit, nothing. Codeine, tramadol and clonazepam help if I take a

lot and knock myself out. Frozen peas on the head helps a bit. I have

awful light sensitivity as well.

>

> Nelly

May 1, 2006

Hi ,

Why do you think bruxism could be causing my headaches? I am almost 100% sure it couldn't be that but fire away tell me why bruxism?

Thanks

Nelly

[infections] Nelly

Bruxism may be worth considering as a headache cause. But in my experience (accumulated when I was less knowledgeable) its tough going to learn about bruxism, and I know you cant read for very long each day. The problem was, I found much more informal knowledge than highly scientific knowledge. Personally I dont know any reason these agents might cause bruxism, other than herx, which sounds rather implausible. But you never know.There are a few antibruxism devices out there. The grindalert and the other wake-up device (forget the name), I never found out much about that I considered highly reliable. The device I went with, the NTI, is not 100% effective in my experience, but invaluble anytime I have to take anythimg monoaminergic (like isoniazid, or recently I've been trying tramadol for weather flares; both make me brux like a monster resulting in day-ruining mild-but-untreatable headaches). The NTI is also kind of unpleasant to wear so I'm glad I dont have a bruxism probelm except on monoaminergic drugs."Nelly Pointis" <janel@...> wrote:>> Penny,> > Thanks for your concern. All the abx that work (ie: that help me with all symptoms incl brain fog, fatigue, feeling fluey etc) seem to also give me a really bad headache after a few days on them. I am forever trying to juggle the treatments so that I can treat and yet not get the absolutely horrific headaches that seem to be the result of treatment working.> > I don't know exactly what causes them, they sure feel like Intercranial Hypertension but as I don't go to doctors no more, I don't have tests for anything! I see my ID specialist every 3 months and that's it. I don't think he believes in what most other doctors do any more than I do, this is why I can bear to see him 4 times a year! > > My headaches don't respond to ANYTHING, antiinflammatories (ibuprofen), aspirin, paracetamol, don't even touch them, not one tiny bit, nothing. Codeine, tramadol and clonazepam help if I take a lot and knock myself out. Frozen peas on the head helps a bit. I have awful light sensitivity as well.> > Nelly

May 2, 2006

>

> Hi ,

>

> Why do you think bruxism could be causing my headaches? I am almost

100% sure it couldn't be that but fire away tell me why bruxism?

>

> Thanks

>

> Nelly

No idea really. It just seems important to triple-check every

possibility since headaches are obstructing your chemotherapy. The guy

who invented the NTI, something, claims that alot of tension and

migraine headaches could be from bruxism. He is a former patient. I

have no idea if his ideas are overblown in scope, but I saw some posts

of his on USENET, where he was trying to help patients that had

problems with the device... so it seems likely that he is philanthropic

in nature, at least in part.

May 2, 2006

I " ve used similar devices. They didn't do me any good whatsoever. If

anything, I think they increased the bacterial breeding ground. :-)

Of course, we're all different so who knows?

penny

>

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Why do you think bruxism could be causing my headaches? I am

almost

> 100% sure it couldn't be that but fire away tell me why bruxism?

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Nelly

>

> No idea really. It just seems important to triple-check every

> possibility since headaches are obstructing your chemotherapy. The

guy

> who invented the NTI, something, claims that alot of tension

and

> migraine headaches could be from bruxism. He is a former patient.

I

> have no idea if his ideas are overblown in scope, but I saw some

posts

> of his on USENET, where he was trying to help patients that had

> problems with the device... so it seems likely that he is

philanthropic

> in nature, at least in part.

>

May 2, 2006

Nelly, I think most of us relate to your headaches ,I agree with Penny , mine were caused by inflammation , encephalitis , Olmestartan at the full blockade dose relieved symptoms .If you read my site you will see that encephalitis is a feature of Autism , it reinforces the link with infection , in particular Lyme ..

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 01 May 2006 23:30infections Subject: Re: [infections] Nelly

Hi ,

Why do you think bruxism could be causing my headaches? I am almost 100% sure it couldn't be that but fire away tell me why bruxism?

Thanks

Nelly

[infections] Nelly

Bruxism may be worth considering as a headache cause. But in my experience (accumulated when I was less knowledgeable) its tough going to learn about bruxism, and I know you cant read for very long each day. The problem was, I found much more informal knowledge than highly scientific knowledge. Personally I dont know any reason these agents might cause bruxism, other than herx, which sounds rather implausible. But you never know.There are a few antibruxism devices out there. The grindalert and the other wake-up device (forget the name), I never found out much about that I considered highly reliable. The device I went with, the NTI, is not 100% effective in my experience, but invaluble anytime I have to take anythimg monoaminergic (like isoniazid, or recently I've been trying tramadol for weather flares; both make me brux like a monster resulting in day-ruining mild-but-untreatable headaches). The NTI is also kind of unpleasant to wear so I'm glad I dont have a bruxism probelm except on monoaminergic drugs."Nelly Pointis" <janel@...> wrote:>> Penny,> > Thanks for your concern. All the abx that work (ie: that help me with all symptoms incl brain fog, fatigue, feeling fluey etc) seem to also give me a really bad headache after a few days on them. I am forever trying to juggle the treatments so that I can treat and yet not get the absolutely horrific headaches that seem to be the result of treatment working.> > I don't know exactly what causes them, they sure feel like Intercranial Hypertension but as I don't go to doctors no more, I don't have tests for anything! I see my ID specialist every 3 months and that's it. I don't think he believes in what most other doctors do any more than I do, this is why I can bear to see him 4 times a year! > > My headaches don't respond to ANYTHING, antiinflammatories (ibuprofen), aspirin, paracetamol, don't even touch them, not one tiny bit, nothing. Codeine, tramadol and clonazepam help if I take a lot and knock myself out. Frozen peas on the head helps a bit. I have awful light sensitivity as well.> > Nelly

June 1, 2006

This is something that was mentioned to me by both Mcgreggor and his

wife when I did a phone consult.The other thing that stands out is

asthma and it's occurance highly linked to antibiotic usage.The

third sore thumb point is breast cancer and antibiotic usage often

high in some patients.. many courses.

The other problem is that you may have never taklen a course of

antibiotics yet someone around you shed antimicrobial resistant bugs

and you are collecting them. Often people in cfs forums have family

members with no full blown symptoms- yet enough niggling problems

that ring alarm bells-.The western world and high antibiotic usage

has left a trail of destruction that manifests in many ilnesses that

don't exist in low level usage countries.

Remember bacteria use viruses to reprogram themselves- one lyctic or

lysic(i don't recall the exact terms) phage can multiply inthe

billions throughout your whole bacterial population. And if you can

sit here and feel helped by a drug- then it turned- you need to be

paying more attention to commonsense than way out phenomenal

articles.

>

> I wasn't going to comment on this, but I also would welcome some

> documentation. My own experience was that I had very few times in

my entire

> life where I used any antibiotics. Only had penicillin twice as a

child. My

> onset of cfs doesn't seem related to antibiotics at all. It does

seem

> related to insect bites preceeding each escalation of symptoms.

>

> I might add that I never had a quinolone in my life until after I

had Lyme

> disease for at least 8 years. I developed severe tendon pain and

weakness

> within two weeks of taking Levaquin. This was an entirely new

symptom in a

> different part of my body that any Lyme symptom I had ever had. I

also

> developed anxiety attacks which I had never had, ever, in my life

before.

>

> a

>

> > Plus when cfs fibro people fill out survey's

> > and the thing that stands out like a sore thumb from such a

survey

> was

> > previous antibiotic use prior to falling ill, it should not be

> palmed

> > off cause it doesn't fit the exotic writing of lida mattman or

> > nicholson labs.

> > tony

>

> Wheres this data tabulated in any formal or informal way that

> someone can read? I got sick in 2003 but I'm pretty sure I hadnt

> taken abx since at the latest 1997, and probably not even then.

> Admittedly I did take a lot as a kid for recurrent strep throat,

in

> the 80s and early 90s.

>

> On the other hand we have lots and lots of people taking long-term

> abx for acne and no increase in CFS/etc has come to light there as

> far as I know (I have not looked very hard).

>

> _____

>

June 1, 2006

The tricky thing might be chicken or egg.

Do folks with high antibiotic usage already have longstanding infection

problems that show up in various health issues including cancer? One example of

this backwards reasoning is obesity. There is some indication now that obesity

is caused by certain bacteria in the gut. This bacteria could be causing

obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.

But again, no one in my family was ever

very sick. I’ve had more antibiotics than my husband, but he has a nasal

staph colonization that is resistant to MORE antibiotics than mine. Go figure.

a

This is something that

was mentioned to me by both Mcgreggor and his

wife when I did a phone consult.The other thing that stands out is

asthma and it's occurance highly linked to antibiotic usage.The

third sore thumb point is breast cancer and antibiotic usage often

high in some patients.. many courses.

The other problem is that you may have never taklen a course of

antibiotics yet someone around you shed antimicrobial resistant bugs

and you are collecting them. Often people in cfs forums have family

members with no full blown symptoms- yet enough niggling problems

that ring alarm bells-.The western world and high antibiotic usage

has left a trail of destruction that manifests in many ilnesses that

don't exist in low level usage countries.

Remember bacteria use viruses to reprogram themselves- one lyctic or

lysic(i don't recall the exact terms) phage can multiply inthe

billions throughout your whole bacterial population. And if you can

sit here and feel helped by a drug- then it turned- you need to be

paying more attention to commonsense than way out phenomenal

articles.

>

> I wasn't going to comment on this, but I also would welcome some

> documentation. My own experience was that I had very few times in

my entire

> life where I used any antibiotics. Only had penicillin twice as a

child. My

> onset of cfs doesn't seem related to antibiotics at all. It does

seem

> related to insect bites preceeding each escalation of symptoms.

>

> I might add that I never had a quinolone in my life until after I

had Lyme

> disease for at least 8 years. I developed severe tendon pain and

weakness

> within two weeks of taking Levaquin. This was an entirely new

symptom in a

> different part of my body that any Lyme symptom I had ever had. I

also

> developed anxiety attacks which I had never had, ever, in my life

before.

>

> a

>

> > Plus when cfs fibro people fill out survey's

> > and the thing that stands out like a sore thumb from such a

survey

> was

> > previous antibiotic use prior to falling ill, it should not be

> palmed

> > off cause it doesn't fit the exotic writing of lida mattman or

> > nicholson labs.

> > tony

>

> Wheres this data tabulated in any formal or informal way that

> someone can read? I got sick in 2003 but I'm pretty sure I hadnt

> taken abx since at the latest 1997, and probably not even then.

> Admittedly I did take a lot as a kid for recurrent strep throat,

in

> the 80s and early 90s.

>

> On the other hand we have lots and lots of people taking long-term

> abx for acne and no increase in CFS/etc has come to light there as

> far as I know (I have not looked very hard).

>

> _____

>

June 1, 2006

> The tricky thing might be chicken or egg. Do folks with high

antibiotic

> usage already have longstanding infection problems that show up

in various

> health issues including cancer?

This is indeed possible. Even if not, it doesnt mean abx use

necessarily tends to increase the pathogenicity of bacteria, tho

that is also possible. A third possibility is that abx simply

increase the rate of cancer by causing mutation or interrupting the

bodys actions against mutations and tumors.

Theres a paper on this in our files. I havent read in over a year,

but I just re-read the abstract, and the fact that they show the

phenomenon to increase with dose is quite impressive IMO. Anyway it

seems to be a modest association (~2x) based on this study, and the

association does not prove causition of the cancer by abx (see

above). Also, LA is soon due to report, I hear, on some amount

of excess rates of cancer and heart disease and suicide in CFS;

successful abx treatment of CFS may (or may not) reduce these excess

risks (assuming they are well-demonstrated by s study and do in

fact exist) - and may or may not thus compensate at least in part

for any excess cancer risk from abx use.

(Anyway, quality of life while Im living is infinitely more

important to me than these minor alterations in risks for heart

disease / cancer, however they may all total up.)

June 2, 2006

a that nasal staph colonisation can often come in 4 species so

is still luck of the draw. And if you think nasal staph colonisation

isn't a big deal all labs have biochemical identification kits of

these staphs that most consider unimportant.That's the real chicken

and cluts part of medicine that doesn't make sense. In 1988 a french

company found this group of pathogens important enough to name into

there 22 categories and 1000's of variables.a coagulase negative

staph called lugdununsis will attack your heart and give you some

severe cardiovascular issues.

tony

That

> >

> > I wasn't going to comment on this, but I also would welcome some

> > documentation. My own experience was that I had very few times

in

> my entire

> > life where I used any antibiotics. Only had penicillin twice as

a

> child. My

> > onset of cfs doesn't seem related to antibiotics at all. It does

> seem

> > related to insect bites preceeding each escalation of symptoms.

> >

> > I might add that I never had a quinolone in my life until after

I

> had Lyme

> > disease for at least 8 years. I developed severe tendon pain and

> weakness

> > within two weeks of taking Levaquin. This was an entirely new

> symptom in a

> > different part of my body that any Lyme symptom I had ever had.

I

> also

> > developed anxiety attacks which I had never had, ever, in my

life

> before.

> >

> > a

> >

> > > Plus when cfs fibro people fill out survey's

> > > and the thing that stands out like a sore thumb from such a

> survey

> > was

> > > previous antibiotic use prior to falling ill, it should not be

> > palmed

> > > off cause it doesn't fit the exotic writing of lida mattman or

> > > nicholson labs.

> > > tony

> >

> > Wheres this data tabulated in any formal or informal way that

> > someone can read? I got sick in 2003 but I'm pretty sure I hadnt

> > taken abx since at the latest 1997, and probably not even then.

> > Admittedly I did take a lot as a kid for recurrent strep throat,

> in

> > the 80s and early 90s.

> >

> > On the other hand we have lots and lots of people taking long-

term

> > abx for acne and no increase in CFS/etc has come to light there

as

> > far as I know (I have not looked very hard).

> >

> > _____

> >

>

June 2, 2006

Tony,

Add this to your thought processing. Three

of us in my family are infected with borrelia. I am the one who became

seriously ill. My husband and son look to be quite healthy, although they have symptoms

– at times serious. It’s not that men are not infected or that the

disease is something other, but that women get obvious symptoms more often.

BTW, I don’t mean to imply that ticks are the only way people get these

infections. After all, mycoplasmas are airborne.

a

You know a commonsense is a wonderfull thing and it applies to

science and health just as much as everything else. If you have 4

times as many woman diagnosed with autoimmune ilnesses and you have

men that are lumberjacks, hunters and campers possably 4 times as

many men than woman- why do you accept that tick borne vector ilness

is the only ilness and nothing else matters.basically doesn't add up.

June 2, 2006

a

My thought process covers a vast majority of people over the net and

I like your home grown observation. Unfortunately it's hard to talk

commonsense when many people in cfs forums are lining up to write

books on tickborne ilness.The city I live in has just as many cases

per head of population that occur in every other big city, and the

likely culprits that you indeed feel strongly may have caused your

ilness don't exist in my neck of the woods. It's also pretty scary

that you have a chorus of billions of organisms thru exposure

responding to climate/environment change...These buggers ain't

hiding they're there just waiting to fire up and run there

processes. They also don't carry on like slow replicaters or stealth

pathogens they just pump you full of toxins in harmony and are

switched on and off easily. just walk into any moldy environment and

tell us how you go.

>

> Tony,

>

> Add this to your thought processing. Three of us in my family are

infected

> with borrelia. I am the one who became seriously ill. My husband

and son

> look to be quite healthy, although they have symptoms - at times

serious.

> It's not that men are not infected or that the disease is

something other,

> but that women get obvious symptoms more often. BTW, I don't mean

to imply

> that ticks are the only way people get these infections. After all,

> mycoplasmas are airborne.

>

> a

>

> You know a commonsense is a wonderfull thing and it applies to

> science and health just as much as everything else. If you have 4

> times as many woman diagnosed with autoimmune ilnesses and you

have

> men that are lumberjacks, hunters and campers possably 4 times as

> many men than woman- why do you accept that tick borne vector

ilness

> is the only ilness and nothing else matters.basically doesn't add

up.

>

> _____

>

June 2, 2006

Tony, you did know that there are twice as

many cases of cfs in rural areas as city, at least in the US. Don’t

you have a lot of rickettsia in Australia?

I suspect we have many cases in the southeastern US, but no one tests for it.

They assume it is a severe rapid onset infection that either kills you or you

get antibiotics and are fine. I doubt that.

As to my cause of borrelia I strongly

suspect I got it from multiple flea bites from fleas on a dog with severe

arthritis in 1972 – that was my first exposure and the time when I developed

arthritis. Years later I had a classic tick bite with a bull’s eye rash.

And then there was the mycoplasma – who knows were I got that.