Re: How to see Borrelia Bergdoferi using a mi...

[Guest guest]

Having been on the board of Bowen Labs as A Medical Advisor and having a background in microbiology. I can attest to the fact that the amount of Fluorescence Is very much reduced in patients as they improve. I don't believe we every get rid of the Borrelia; With its many plemorphic Cell Wall deficient stages and cyst stage this organism is a survivor. I have seen it crawl in and out of the Neurtophils and Macrophages, the very White blood Cells that are supposed to kill invading bacteria. With it polysaccharide protein coating made from the host, it moves in and out of WBS's and RBC's as if it belongs there. It is both frightening and fascinating to watch at the same time. The immune system is going crazy looking for an enemy it can't find in the Cell wall deficient stages as well as a spirochete covered with it's protective coat. As a patient improves or goes into remission there is improvement in what is seen under the Fluorescent microscope as well as the titers of patients. You do not see the same thing in healthy controls. Emeritus Adjunct Professor of Laboratory Science, Carol Fisch

Fluorescent antibody against Bb would go a long way towards determining> whether these are Bb; fluorescin-conjugated murimidase would probably> be very helpful in determining whether they are bacterial at all. I> wish I could get a fluorescence scope. Damn, do I wish. But they cost a> pretty penny. Thats what the Bowen test is using. But I've not seen> anything from Bowen about whether what theyre seeing is also found in> healthy controls, or is reduced in improved patients, etc. Thats too> bad.>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info carol , To me it begs the question, if we all host pleomophic bacteria then what are the controls that keep them from being pathogenic .It seems we all walk a tightrope with our IS ..it doesn't take much to downgrade the IS allowing what we regard as commensal microbes to infect...

Are There Naturally Occurring Pleomorphic Bacteria in the Blood of Healthy Humans?

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=12454193

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of EJFISCH@...Sent: 16 April 2006 06:38infections Subject: Re: [infections] Re: How to see Borrelia Bergdoferi using a mi...

Having been on the board of Bowen Labs as A Medical Advisor and having a background in microbiology. I can attest to the fact that the amount of Fluorescence Is very much reduced in patients as they improve. I don't believe we every get rid of the Borrelia; With its many plemorphic Cell Wall deficient stages and cyst stage this organism is a survivor. I have seen it crawl in and out of the Neurtophils and Macrophages, the very White blood Cells that are supposed to kill invading bacteria. With it polysaccharide protein coating made from the host, it moves in and out of WBS's and RBC's as if it belongs there. It is both frightening and fascinating to watch at the same time. The immune system is going crazy looking for an enemy it can't find in the Cell wall deficient stages as well as a spirochete covered with it's protective coat. As a patient improves or goes into remission there is improvement in what is seen under the Fluorescent mic roscope as well as the titers of patients. You do not see the same thing in healthy controls. Emeritus Adjunct Professor of Laboratory Science, Carol Fisch

Fluorescent antibody against Bb would go a long way towards determining> whether these are Bb; fluorescin-conjugated murimidase would probably> be very helpful in determining whether they are bacterial at all. I> wish I could get a fluorescence scope. Damn, do I wish. But they cost a> pretty penny. Thats what the Bowen test is using. But I've not seen> anything from Bowen about whether what theyre seeing is also found in> healthy controls, or is reduced in improved patients, etc. Thats too> bad.>

[Guest guest]

Dear

Several factors

Genetics

Micronutrient status including Zinc Boron Selenium and sulphur ( among others)

General nutrition modified by malabsorption (Positive Feedback loop)

Catch 22

If you have a problem with nutrient absorption, how do you get back to a high plane of nutrition to cancel the micronutrient deficiencies and malnutrition generally. Hoist on your own bootstraps.

The significant factor in my case appears to be disruption in the cortisol/DHEA axis interfering with Thyroid metabolism. A definite genetic predisposition !!

Increase my DHEA, cortisol goes down , Thyroid response normalises, I feel better, eat better and physically work better. Now I have to address gut and sinus dysbiosis but now have the strength and determination to do so.

Regards

Windsor

RE: [infections] Re: How to see Borrelia Bergdoferi using a mi...

Thanks for the info carol , To me it begs the question, if we all host pleomophic bacteria then what are the controls that keep them from being pathogenic .It seems we all walk a tightrope with our IS ..it doesn't take much to downgrade the IS allowing what we regard as commensal microbes to infect...

Are There Naturally Occurring Pleomorphic Bacteria in the Blood of Healthy Humans?

http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=12454193

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of EJFISCH@...Sent: 16 April 2006 06:38infections Subject: Re: [infections] Re: How to see Borrelia Bergdoferi using a mi...

Having been on the board of Bowen Labs as A Medical Advisor and having a background in microbiology. I can attest to the fact that the amount of Fluorescence Is very much reduced in patients as they improve. I don't believe we every get rid of the Borrelia; With its many plemorphic Cell Wall deficient stages and cyst stage this organism is a survivor. I have seen it crawl in and out of the Neurtophils and Macrophages, the very White blood Cells that are supposed to kill invading bacteria. With it polysaccharide protein coating made from the host, it moves in and out of WBS's and RBC's as if it belongs there. It is both frightening and fascinating to watch at the same time. The immune system is going crazy looking for an enemy it can't find in the Cell wall deficient stages as well as a spirochete covered with it's protective coat. As a patient improves or goes into remission there is improvement in what is seen under the Fluorescent mic roscope as well as the titers of patients. You do not see the same thing in healthy controls. Emeritus Adjunct Professor of Laboratory Science, Carol Fisch

Fluorescent antibody against Bb would go a long way towards determining> whether these are Bb; fluorescin-conjugated murimidase would probably> be very helpful in determining whether they are bacterial at all. I> wish I could get a fluorescence scope. Damn, do I wish. But they cost a> pretty penny. Thats what the Bowen test is using. But I've not seen> anything from Bowen about whether what theyre seeing is also found in> healthy controls, or is reduced in improved patients, etc. Thats too> bad.>

[Guest guest]

Well- there ya go.

Host/Pathogen adaptation - or in Bb's case, the pathogen forces the

host to adapt. Then there's no immune system/pahogen fight.

I don't think the immune system is going crazy looking for it. Most

of the symptoms are from the damage of inflammation.

Other wise an infected persons WBC would be elevated, just like in

any 'normal' acute infection.

Barb

>

>

> Having been on the board of Bowen Labs as A Medical Advisor and

having a

> background in microbiology. I can attest to the fact that the

amount of

> Fluorescence Is very much reduced in patients as they improve. I

don't believe we every

> get rid of the Borrelia; With its many plemorphic Cell Wall

deficient stages

> and cyst stage this organism is a survivor. I have seen it crawl in

and out of

> the Neurtophils and Macrophages, the very White blood Cells that

are supposed

> to kill invading bacteria. With it polysaccharide protein coating

made from

> the host, it moves in and out of WBS's and RBC's as if it belongs

there. It is

> both frightening and fascinating to watch at the same time. The

immune system

> is going crazy looking for an enemy it can't find in the Cell wall

deficient

> stages as well as a spirochete covered with it's protective coat.

As a patient

> improves or goes into remission there is improvement in what is

seen under the

> Fluorescent microscope as well as the titers of patients. You do

not see the

> same thing in healthy controls. Emeritus Adjunct Professor of

Laboratory

> Science, Carol Fisch

>

>

> Fluorescent antibody against Bb would go a long way towards

determining

> > whether these are Bb; fluorescin-conjugated murimidase would

probably

> > be very helpful in determining whether they are bacterial at all.

I

> > wish I could get a fluorescence scope. Damn, do I wish. But they

cost a

> > pretty penny. Thats what the Bowen test is using. But I've not

seen

> > anything from Bowen about whether what theyre seeing is also

found in

> > healthy controls, or is reduced in improved patients, etc. Thats

too

> > bad.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly. Life in balance.

Our bodies are their universe.

Barb

>

> Thanks for the info carol , To me it begs the question, if we all

host

> pleomophic bacteria then what are the controls that keep them from

being

> pathogenic .It seems we all walk a tightrope with our IS ..it

doesn't take

> much to downgrade the IS allowing what we regard as commensal

microbes to

> infect...

>

> Are There Naturally Occurring Pleomorphic Bacteria in the Blood of

Healthy

> Humans?

> http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?

tool=pubmed & pubmedid=1245419

> 3

>

> Re: [infections] Re: How to see Borrelia

> Bergdoferi using a mi...

>

>

>

> Having been on the board of Bowen Labs as A Medical Advisor and

having a

> background in microbiology. I can attest to the fact that the

amount of

> Fluorescence Is very much reduced in patients as they improve. I

don't

> believe we every get rid of the Borrelia; With its many plemorphic

Cell Wall

> deficient stages and cyst stage this organism is a survivor. I have

seen it

> crawl in and out of the Neurtophils and Macrophages, the very White

blood

> Cells that are supposed to kill invading bacteria. With it

polysaccharide

> protein coating made from the host, it moves in and out of WBS's

and RBC's

> as if it belongs there. It is both frightening and fascinating to

watch at

> the same time. The immune system is going crazy looking for an

enemy it

> can't find in the Cell wall deficient stages as well as a

spirochete covered

> with it's protective coat. As a patient improves or goes into

remission

> there is improvement in what is seen under the Fluorescent mic

roscope as

> well as the titers of patients. You do not see the same thing in

healthy

> controls. Emeritus Adjunct Professor of Laboratory Science, Carol

Fisch

>

>

> Fluorescent antibody against Bb would go a long way towards

determining

> > whether these are Bb; fluorescin-conjugated murimidase would

probably

> > be very helpful in determining whether they are bacterial at

all. I

> > wish I could get a fluorescence scope. Damn, do I wish. But

they cost a

> > pretty penny. Thats what the Bowen test is using. But I've not

seen

> > anything from Bowen about whether what theyre seeing is also

found in

> > healthy controls, or is reduced in improved patients, etc.

Thats too

> > bad.

> >

>

>

>