Re: I wonder ,,Bacteroides fragilis

[Guest guest]

yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve done

long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic medicine

(india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US MD.

they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet and

herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was against

probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease- and the

gut, and immune results from this.

amy

[Guest guest]

Well- alkalize the gut and antibiotics can kill b. fragilis easier..

SEE ref 1

But it looks like b fragilis can live in varyinh PH to me.

And researchers are worried about abx resistance as alot

of them are not really considered all that friendly...

SEE ref 2

So- back to a bug-balance issue again?

Still wondering about tagamet -

Will be interested in your results.

Barb

REFERENCE 1

Antimicrob. Agents Chemother., Sep 1997, 2047-2049, Vol 41, No. 9

Copyright © 1997 by the American Society for Microbiology. All rights

reserved.

Effect of pH on in vitro antimicrobial susceptibility of the

Bacteroides fragilis group

ME Falagas, L McDermott and DR Snydman

Department of Pathology (Clinical Microbiology), New England Medical

Center and Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts

02111, USA.

We studied the effect of pH (7.1, 6.3, and 5.8) on the in vitro

susceptibilities of 59 isolates of Bacteroides fragilis and 60

isolates of other B. fragilis group species to trovafloxacin,

ciprofloxacin, clindamycin, ampicillin-sulbactam, piperacillin-

tazobactam, imipenem, and meropenem. For each agent tested the

geometric mean MIC was highest at pH 5.8, intermediate at pH 6.3, and

lowest at pH 7.1. The magnitude of the pH effect varied greatly among

different antibiotics. These data show that an acidic pH decreases

the in vitro susceptibilities of the B. fragilis group to several

antibiotics.

REFERENCE 2

http://www.anaesthetist.com/icu/infect/bacteria/anaerobe/bfrag.htm

>

>

>

> I see that cimetidine is responsible for an increased CD4

(helper/inducer)

> cell count , well that's interesting because latest research has

revealed

> that a particular bacterium is responsible for the production of

CD4 cells

>

> So does a reduced acidic environment favour the growth of

Bacteroides

> fragilis, the bacterium in question?

>

> The answer lies in the gut ..you better believe it

>

>

> Read and savour this wonderful article…

>

> Bacterium Proves Essential to Immune System Development

>

> http://focus.hms.harvard.edu/2005/Jul15_2005/microbiology.shtml

>

> --

> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.4/299 - Release Date:

31/03/2006

>

[Guest guest]

Your SYMPTOMS were releived with your ayurvedic diet - and that's a

good thing- but you were not FIXED - as the condition comes back when

you stray from the special diet.

I am after the " FIX " . So things work right. I was on many

restricted diets to maintain health in the past - and I have to say

I like living normally much better.

This is not to say you are on the wrong path - I just may be farther

down the road.

Barb

>

> yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve done

> long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

>

> so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

>

> RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

medicine

> (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US MD.

> they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet and

> herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

> devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was against

> probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease- and

the

> gut, and immune results from this.

> amy

>

[Guest guest]

Amy, how can you blame the gut alone, when you've got a focal

infection in your jaw that can't be reached by your immune system?

Of course the gut is essential. But our bodies' systems are

interdependent. If you've got an infection that's protecting itself

from your immune system, say in your sinuses, or bones, or organs, a

healthy gut alone isn't going to fix it. Especially if the area is

necroticized. It can help, but it can't clean out your sinuses if

they're physically unable to drain, or if the tissue or bone is

necrotic, or if there's no blood flow to the bone or organs (which

happens with necrosis). Your gut alone is not going to eradicate a

bone infection if debridement is required, or if blood isn't getting

to the problem area.

Our Immune system is carried by our blood. If we have coagulation

problems, either inherited or as a result of infection, we're going

to have a crippled immune system whether our gut's functioning or

not.

Sure, we need to enhance our body's immune system, whether it's

through the gut or thinning our blood, or alkalinizin the cells, or

reducing inflammation. But it's also very important to identify the

infection and it source. Find out where it's originating. Otherwise,

we're stuck chasing our tails forever.

penny

>

> yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve

done

> long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

>

> so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

>

> RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

medicine

> (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US MD.

> they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet and

> herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

> devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was against

> probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease- and

the

> gut, and immune results from this.

> amy

>

[Guest guest]

well I certainly did not get well from all thats wrong here from infections,

but my digestion got better almost overnight. I think eating healthy and

having normal digestion is living normally.

the standard american diet will lead to many more bad symptoms ontop of

whatever ails us now...look at the stroke and heart attack rates.

>From: " Barb Peck " <egroups1bp@...>

>Reply-infections

>infections

>Subject: [infections] Re: I wonder ,, " Bacteroides fragilis "

>Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:07:03 -0000

>

> Your SYMPTOMS were releived with your ayurvedic diet - and that's a

>good thing- but you were not FIXED - as the condition comes back when

>you stray from the special diet.

>

> I am after the " FIX " . So things work right. I was on many

>restricted diets to maintain health in the past - and I have to say

>I like living normally much better.

>

>This is not to say you are on the wrong path - I just may be farther

>down the road.

>

>Barb

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve done

> > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> >

> > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> >

> > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

>medicine

> > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US MD.

> > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet and

> > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

> > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was against

> > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease- and

>the

> > gut, and immune results from this.

> > amy

> >

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

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[Guest guest]

Amy;

In print it's hard sometimes to convey an opinion without sounding

arguementative- just want to clarify that I'm not trying to be -

Special diets (eather eating something special- or ovoiding foods

that bother) is what I call eating within a narrow eating range.

I was just trying to make the point of that not being a cure IMO -

especially if you relapse when you go off the diet.

I certainly agree that eating healthy on a regular basis is a good

thing- but a healthy system should be able to handle some crap food

from time to time.

I'm a firm beleiver in food is fuel.. but it can also be fun.

Barb

> > >

> > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve

done

> > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> > >

> > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> > >

> > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

> >medicine

> > > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US

MD.

> > > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet

and

> > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

> > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was

against

> > > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease-

and

> >the

> > > gut, and immune results from this.

> > > amy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

it's FREE!

> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

[Guest guest]

Magnificent point Barb- well put.

> > > >

> > > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I

ahve

> done

> > > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> > > >

> > > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> > > >

> > > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

> > >medicine

> > > > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a

US

> MD.

> > > > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple

diet

> and

> > > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS.

if I

> > > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was

> against

> > > > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > > > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> > > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > > > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne

disease-

> and

> > >the

> > > > gut, and immune results from this.

> > > > amy

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> it's FREE!

> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

That is a very good understanding of what we are dealing with.

tony

> >

> > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I ahve

> done

> > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> >

> > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> >

> > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

> medicine

> > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a US

MD.

> > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple diet

and

> > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS. if I

> > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was against

> > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne disease-

and

> the

> > gut, and immune results from this.

> > amy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I guess it depends what you consider food.

if it is packaged it is probably crap in my view

the body was made for food not crap. or rather food was made for the body,

not crap.

it could be an interesting aside to hear what views/definition people have

on food.

amy

>From: " dumbaussie2000 " <dumbaussie2000@...>

>Reply-infections

>infections

>Subject: [infections] Re: I wonder ,, " Bacteroides fragilis "

>Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:50:44 -0000

>

>Magnificent point Barb- well put.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > > > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I

>ahve

> > done

> > > > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> > > > >

> > > > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> > > > >

> > > > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

> > > >medicine

> > > > > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a

>US

> > MD.

> > > > > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple

>diet

> > and

> > > > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS.

>if I

> > > > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > > > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was

> > against

> > > > > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > > > > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as

> > > > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > > > > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne

>disease-

> > and

> > > >the

> > > > > gut, and immune results from this.

> > > > > amy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> > it's FREE!

> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

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[Guest guest]

If i eat crap i feel crap.

bleu

On 15 Apr 2006, at 02:20, amy dent wrote:

>

> I guess it depends what you consider food.

> if it is packaged it is probably crap in my view

> the body was made for food not crap. or rather food was made for the

> body,

> not crap.

> it could be an interesting aside to hear what views/definition people

> have

> on food.

> amy

>

> >From: " dumbaussie2000 " <dumbaussie2000@...>

> >Reply-infections

> >infections

> >Subject: [infections] Re: I wonder ,, " Bacteroides

> fragilis "

> >Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:50:44 -0000

> >

> >Magnificent point Barb- well put.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

> > > > > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I

> >ahve

> > > done

> > > > > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic

> > > > >medicine

> > > > > > (india)  I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a

> >US

> > > MD.

> > > > > > they feel the gut is the root of everything.  their simple

> >diet

> > > and

> > > > > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS.

> >if I

> > > > > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

> > > > > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was

> > > against

> > > > > > probioitcs.  not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

> > > > > > they are into real food mostly.  in my case mostly cooked as

> > > > > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

> > > > > > I also wonder about  celiac disease wheat intoleracne

> >disease-

> > > and

> > > > >the

> > > > > > gut, and immune results from this.

> > > > > > amy

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> _________________________________________________________________

> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

> > > it's FREE!

> > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's

> FREE!

> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]



Dear All

One man's crap is another mans dinner

I start the day with bacon and eggs and refried potatoes. On this regime I can miss lunch with minimal effect. If I eat conventional breakfast ( high carbohydrate) cereal toast etc I am down the gurgler before lunch.

On a high fat diet I have halved my cholesterol. Go figure!!

There are some foods generally regarded as essential that I do not take to. Not sure of the full range but wheat , beef , are the two worst. Went to China for 3 weeks, ate more than one might reasonably expect and consider good for me but lost about 20 pounds weight. Food was SW Chinese (Yunnan ) and mostly traditional, eaten in eating houses catering for Chinese working class people in the main. Even in the 5 star hotels I ate Chinese traditional. Out of the group of 23 I was the only one not to have severe gut upsets. I was one of the few who didn't eat any Western Style food either. No beef, a little Yak , a little pork and bugger all else in the way of meat. More vegetables than I have ever seen or could identify ( and I am a trained Taxonomic Botanist) and more Chile Peppers than I thought possible.

Exit one happy man.

Regards Windsor

[infections] Re: I wonder ,,"Bacteroides fragilis">Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:50:44 -0000>>Magnificent point Barb- well put.>>>>>> > > > >> > > > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.> > > > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I>ahve> > done> > > > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.> > > > >> > > > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.> > > > >> > > > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about aryuvedic> > > >medicine> > > > > (india) I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also a>US> > MD.> > > > > they feel the gut is the root of everything. their simple>diet> > and> > > > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS.>if I> > > > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.> > > > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was> > against> > > > > probioitcs. not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.> > > > > they are into real food mostly. in my case mostly cooked as> > > > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.> > > > > I also wonder about celiac disease wheat intoleracne>disease-> > and> > > >the> > > > > gut, and immune results from this.> > > > > amy> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > _________________________________________________________________> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -> > it's FREE!> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/> > >> >>>>>_________________________________________________________________Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Yes Weston A Price was one of the gods of nutrition if you as me.

On 15 Apr 2006, at 10:10, Windsor wrote:

>

> Dear All

> One man's crap is another mans dinner

> I start the day with bacon and eggs and refried potatoes. On this

> regime I can miss lunch with minimal effect. If I eat conventional

> breakfast ( high carbohydrate) cereal toast etc I am down the gurgler

> before lunch.

> On a high fat diet I have halved my cholesterol. Go figure!!

> There are some foods generally regarded as essential that I do not

> take to. Not sure of the full range but wheat , beef , are the two

> worst. Went to China for 3 weeks, ate more than one might reasonably

> expect and consider good for me but lost about 20 pounds weight.  Food

> was SW Chinese (Yunnan ) and mostly traditional, eaten in eating

> houses catering for Chinese working class people in the main.  Even in

> the 5 star hotels I ate Chinese traditional. Out of the group of 23 I

> was the only one not to have severe gut upsets. I was one of the few

> who didn't eat any Western Style food either. No beef, a little Yak ,

> a little pork and bugger all else in the way of meat. More vegetables

> than I have ever seen or could identify ( and I am a trained Taxonomic

> Botanist) and more Chile Peppers than I thought possible.

> Exit one happy man.

> Regards

> Windsor

>  

>> [infections] Re: I wonder ,, " Bacteroides

>>> fragilis "

>>> >Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:50:44 -0000

>>> >

>>> >Magnificent point Barb- well put.

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> > > > > >

>>> > > > > > yes, I agree wiht you that the gut is the key.

>>> > > > > > I am new to the group and just want to let everyone know I

>>> >ahve

>>> > > done

>>> > > > > > long term anitbiotics for 1 1/2 years, wiht no results.

>>> > > > > >

>>> > > > > > so I am not exactly against them, as I did try them.

>>> > > > > >

>>> > > > > > RE the gut, it makes me all the more curious about

>>> aryuvedic

>>> > > > >medicine

>>> > > > > > (india)  I had a consult wiht an ayurvedic doc who is also

>>> a

>>> >US

>>> > > MD.

>>> > > > > > they feel the gut is the root of everything.  their simple

>>> >diet

>>> > > and

>>> > > > > > herbal tea fixed my digestion in 2 days, prieviously IBS.

>>> >if I

>>> > > > > > devieate to the standard american diet the IBS is back.

>>> > > > > > they do not use regular supplement, only herbals. she was

>>> > > against

>>> > > > > > probioitcs.  not sure why, perhaps not natural enough.

>>> > > > > > they are into real food mostly.  in my case mostly cooked

>>> as

>>> > > > > > malabsoption and gut problems from raw.

>>> > > > > > I also wonder about  celiac disease wheat intoleracne

>>> >disease-

>>> > > and

>>> > > > >the

>>> > > > > > gut, and immune results from this.

>>> > > > > > amy

>>> > > > > >

>>> > > > >

>>> > > > >

>>> > > > >

>>> > > > >

>>> > > >

>>> > > >

>>> _________________________________________________________________

>>> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -

>>> > > it's FREE!

>>> > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>>> > > >

>>> > >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>> >

>>>

>>> _________________________________________________________________

>>> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's

>>> FREE!

>>> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>