Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Heres an interesting one. Seems some autoAbs induced reversibly by malaria infection in mice were very polyspecific. ==================================== Int Immunol. 1991 Jan;3(1):29-37. Related Articles, Links Induction of high levels of IgG autoantibodies in mice infected with Plasmodium chabaudi. Ternynck T, Falanga PB, Unterkirscher C, Gregoire J, da Silva LP, Avrameas S. Unite d'Immunocytochimie, CNRS URA 359, Paris, France. This study analyzed the effect of infection of mice with a virulent strain of Plasmodium chabaudi on natural autoantibodies. Mice received appropriate treatments in order to survive and the serum autoantibodies were characterized either by enzyme immunoassays against a panel of self and non-self antigens or by Western immunoblots using fibroblast or red blood cell (RBC) extracts. IgM and mainly IgG antibodies directed against actin, myoglobin, myosin, spectrin, tubulin, and trinitrophenylated-ovalbumin were found a few days after the parasitemia peak, persisted for several weeks after parasite clearance, and returned to almost normal levels after 2 months. Following a challenge with parasitized RBCs, a similar increase in all antibodies was observed, their levels remaining high 20 days post-injection and still remaining at twice the normal level 1 month later. Western blotting detected autoantibodies to many membrane RBC proteins, e.g. spectrin, and band 3 and its related polypeptides, as well as against fibroblast constituents, such as tubulin, actin, and the 70 kd heat shock protein. Autoantibodies seemed to be polyspecific, since those eluted from infected mouse RBCs and the IgG antibodies from infected mouse sera affinity- purified on a mouse tubulin immunoadsorbent reacted with all antigens of the panel, including parasite extracts. Surprisingly, in mice which had recovered from infection, autoantibody levels, particularly anti-spectrin and anti-band 3, rose after the injection of a high dose of normal instead of parasitized RBCs.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) PMID: 2049335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 : Good articles you're posting. In my mind - there's no doubt that various pathogen create havoc with the immune system, and I concede that autoantibodies are produced during the course of the infection (can't dispute some of these papers). I disagree with their conclusions though, that autoantibodies continue to do damage AFTER the pathogen is erradicated... they always make the assumption that the pathogen IS erradicated if they can't find evidence of it through available teating. I think it's there, but just can't be found. I actually made some headway with a Dr. recently talking about " theory " specifically post- Blah blah syndrome - with resulting autoimmunity.. AI is really only a theory that's why all these maladies are called SYNDROMES and not disease. Barb > > Heres an interesting one. Seems some autoAbs induced reversibly by > malaria infection in mice were very polyspecific. > > > ==================================== > > Int Immunol. 1991 Jan;3(1):29-37. Related Articles, Links > > > Induction of high levels of IgG autoantibodies in mice infected with > Plasmodium chabaudi. > > Ternynck T, Falanga PB, Unterkirscher C, Gregoire J, da Silva LP, > Avrameas S. > > Unite d'Immunocytochimie, CNRS URA 359, Paris, France. > > This study analyzed the effect of infection of mice with a virulent > strain of Plasmodium chabaudi on natural autoantibodies. Mice > received appropriate treatments in order to survive and the serum > autoantibodies were characterized either by enzyme immunoassays > against a panel of self and non-self antigens or by Western > immunoblots using fibroblast or red blood cell (RBC) extracts. IgM > and mainly IgG antibodies directed against actin, myoglobin, myosin, > spectrin, tubulin, and trinitrophenylated-ovalbumin were found a few > days after the parasitemia peak, persisted for several weeks after > parasite clearance, and returned to almost normal levels after 2 > months. Following a challenge with parasitized RBCs, a similar > increase in all antibodies was observed, their levels remaining high > 20 days post-injection and still remaining at twice the normal level > 1 month later. Western blotting detected autoantibodies to many > membrane RBC proteins, e.g. spectrin, and band 3 and its related > polypeptides, as well as against fibroblast constituents, such as > tubulin, actin, and the 70 kd heat shock protein. Autoantibodies > seemed to be polyspecific, since those eluted from infected mouse > RBCs and the IgG antibodies from infected mouse sera affinity- > purified on a mouse tubulin immunoadsorbent reacted with all antigens > of the panel, including parasite extracts. Surprisingly, in mice > which had recovered from infection, autoantibody levels, particularly > anti-spectrin and anti-band 3, rose after the injection of a high > dose of normal instead of parasitized RBCs.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 > WORDS) > > PMID: 2049335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Its very sad as I ranted in a recent post about the very nice woman who now has rhuematoid arthritis but they say the lyme has come and gone. I don't even know if they ever tested for babesia or bartonella. Her immunosuppressive drugs require liver monitoring and bring her white blood count down to 3 and lower, requiring backing off the drugs a bit etc. Its the hit and run model, and that makes no sense I agree. Infection is " information " and so are antibodies, they're a response to information. Get rid of the " Information " that the bacteria are sending the immune system and there is no need to create the auto antibodies. One problem though is all our infections are so much more virulent. I do think lyme is bioweaponized and maybe babesia but even the naturally occuring lyme is surely much more virulent now than 20 years ago just by antibiotic overusage. > > > > Heres an interesting one. Seems some autoAbs induced reversibly by > > malaria infection in mice were very polyspecific. > > > > > > ==================================== > > > > Int Immunol. 1991 Jan;3(1):29-37. Related Articles, Links > > > > > > Induction of high levels of IgG autoantibodies in mice infected > with > > Plasmodium chabaudi. > > > > Ternynck T, Falanga PB, Unterkirscher C, Gregoire J, da Silva LP, > > Avrameas S. > > > > Unite d'Immunocytochimie, CNRS URA 359, Paris, France. > > > > This study analyzed the effect of infection of mice with a virulent > > strain of Plasmodium chabaudi on natural autoantibodies. Mice > > received appropriate treatments in order to survive and the serum > > autoantibodies were characterized either by enzyme immunoassays > > against a panel of self and non-self antigens or by Western > > immunoblots using fibroblast or red blood cell (RBC) extracts. IgM > > and mainly IgG antibodies directed against actin, myoglobin, > myosin, > > spectrin, tubulin, and trinitrophenylated-ovalbumin were found a > few > > days after the parasitemia peak, persisted for several weeks after > > parasite clearance, and returned to almost normal levels after 2 > > months. Following a challenge with parasitized RBCs, a similar > > increase in all antibodies was observed, their levels remaining > high > > 20 days post-injection and still remaining at twice the normal > level > > 1 month later. Western blotting detected autoantibodies to many > > membrane RBC proteins, e.g. spectrin, and band 3 and its related > > polypeptides, as well as against fibroblast constituents, such as > > tubulin, actin, and the 70 kd heat shock protein. Autoantibodies > > seemed to be polyspecific, since those eluted from infected mouse > > RBCs and the IgG antibodies from infected mouse sera affinity- > > purified on a mouse tubulin immunoadsorbent reacted with all > antigens > > of the panel, including parasite extracts. Surprisingly, in mice > > which had recovered from infection, autoantibody levels, > particularly > > anti-spectrin and anti-band 3, rose after the injection of a high > > dose of normal instead of parasitized RBCs.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT > 250 > > WORDS) > > > > PMID: 2049335 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 On Friday, November 4, 2005, at 12:52 PM, jill1313 wrote: > One problem though is all our infections are so much more virulent. I > do think lyme is bioweaponized and maybe babesia but even the > naturally occuring lyme is surely much more virulent now than 20 > years ago just by antibiotic overusage. Would antibiotic overusage really effect Bb bacteria in general? Seems to me it is pretty much contained within the sick subject. I mean, hopefully my own Bb bacteria aren't going any further than they have already gone (to my son, and who knows maybe my husband, who is now having knee pain and inflammation but won't take the time to get a test while on tour in the US). I suppose mosquitoes could be biting me and spreading my blood around and therefore my Bb bacteria that have now been exposed to a year's worth of various abx.... - Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Of course it would. Most folks live in endemic areas and get multiple tickbites they don't know about. Mosquitoes prefer a host already infected with malaria for obvious reasons--allows the parasite to effectively spread. The microbe protects itself. You aren't the endstage host. Even your urine sheds bb. You may pass it on to unborn babies, perhaps, but more likely for most folks is they are bitten and rebitten and ticks without it, get it. And like any bacterium, bb can become resistant with antibiotic overusage. > > > One problem though is all our infections are so much more virulent. I > > do think lyme is bioweaponized and maybe babesia but even the > > naturally occuring lyme is surely much more virulent now than 20 > > years ago just by antibiotic overusage. > > Would antibiotic overusage really effect Bb bacteria in general? Seems > to me it is pretty much contained within the sick subject. I mean, > hopefully my own Bb bacteria aren't going any further than they have > already gone (to my son, and who knows maybe my husband, who is now > having knee pain and inflammation but won't take the time to get a test > while on tour in the US). I suppose mosquitoes could be biting me and > spreading my blood around and therefore my Bb bacteria that have now > been exposed to a year's worth of various abx.... > > - Kate > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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