Boosting the Immune system

[Guest guest]

We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the rounds. It’s

highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye’s sickness, grade one

sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a flu type

bug. It’s so contagious that schools are being closed in an attempt to

control the infection..

Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering up against

the new invader is obviously working against the old enemy .There’s no

mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no longer crackle

when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching joints are no

more ,etc, etc;

It’s happened before but this time it seems more dramatic, surly , when we

are challenged with “guest” bugs our existing infection should make hay

while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up against the

new invader we should experience an increase in existing symptoms as the

accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at least the

pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is layered

,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long standing

stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune defences but for

obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be that when

a “guest” bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops work against

the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line treatment

should be boosting the immune system ..but I’m open to suggestions ..any

thoughts ..

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date: 20/02/2006

[Guest guest]

Hi :

In this specific case, it might be that your " guest " bug has the

same (specific) vunerablities as the residet bug. I would think it

would have to be that if your normal symptoms were getting better

while the body mounts the response to the new guy in town.

Barb

>

>

>

> We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the rounds.

It's

> highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye's sickness,

grade one

> sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a

flu type

> bug. It's so contagious that schools are being closed in an

attempt to

> control the infection..

>

> Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering up

against

> the new invader is obviously working against the old

enemy .There's no

> mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no longer

crackle

> when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching joints

are no

> more ,etc, etc;

> It's happened before but this time it seems more dramatic, surly ,

when we

> are challenged with " guest " bugs our existing infection should

make hay

> while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up

against the

> new invader we should experience an increase in existing symptoms

as the

> accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at least

the

> pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

>

> The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is

layered

> ,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long

standing

> stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune defences

but for

> obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be

that when

> a " guest " bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops work

against

> the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line

treatment

> should be boosting the immune system ..but I'm open to

suggestions ..any

> thoughts ..

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:

20/02/2006

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb , yes it must be something like that ...I sent the same post to a

number of contacts ..I had the reply back from one very qualified to give an

answer ..as you see things are not clear even at the top.....To me it poses

more questions , if my IS is powering up against the old enemy then what

about the question of stealth? if the nano /spiros do not present as an

antigen and subsequently we do not produce antibodies against the bug ..then

how is it that when the IS is switched on by a flu bug it suddenly

recognises the years standing pre-existing bug?? ...The anergy theory below

must be front runner at the moment ..I hope it is the case ...it means that

we should have a powerful weapon in an immune booster ..better than a bomb

proof bug that can hide from our Immune system... PS Barb you could be

living proof that the IS can overcome , that is given the right

circumstances

Thank you for your email. It is all very interesting, and I can't claim to

be able to explain it with any certainty! I know the theory. What happens

in reality might be quite different.

Anyway, I suspect it might have something to do with Th1 versus Th2

activity, and general turning off of the immune response with time, even if

the infection is not fully resolved. A random search found the link below

which gives reasonably correct info on Th1 and Th2:

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/T/Th1_Th2.html

So a new infection might trigger a different subset of T cells (Th1 and Th2

is actually an over simplification of what actually is there) thus

influencing the original immune response.

I hope the improvement lasts.

All the best

[infections] Re: Boosting the Immune system

Hi :

In this specific case, it might be that your " guest " bug has the

same (specific) vunerablities as the residet bug. I would think it

would have to be that if your normal symptoms were getting better

while the body mounts the response to the new guy in town.

Barb

>

>

>

> We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the rounds.

It's

> highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye's sickness,

grade one

> sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a

flu type

> bug. It's so contagious that schools are being closed in an

attempt to

> control the infection..

>

> Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering up

against

> the new invader is obviously working against the old

enemy .There's no

> mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no longer

crackle

> when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching joints

are no

> more ,etc, etc;

> It's happened before but this time it seems more dramatic, surly ,

when we

> are challenged with " guest " bugs our existing infection should

make hay

> while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up

against the

> new invader we should experience an increase in existing symptoms

as the

> accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at least

the

> pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

>

> The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is

layered

> ,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long

standing

> stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune defences

but for

> obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be

that when

> a " guest " bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops work

against

> the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line

treatment

> should be boosting the immune system ..but I'm open to

suggestions ..any

> thoughts ..

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:

20/02/2006

>

[Guest guest]

:

What your friend is explaining is that USUALLY when the body gets

tricked by a pathogen, then it's a harmless TH2 response that's

mounted by the IS instead of the preferred TH1 response.. the

chemicals produced with each reponse are different .

It's thought that a hyper state of TH2 activation is resposible for

allergies, hyper sensitivities, etc.... and that's why " protocols "

are touted to " switch " the response from TH2 to TH1- and they promise

that you'll be cured and improve.

The TH2 and TH1 response :

The trigger and response mechanisms responsible for which pathway the

body initiates is very complicated, and alot is not known (especially

about what activates TH2)

The names for the pathways -TH2 and TH1- are mainly just labels to

bucket the different chemicals released into the body and i8t's

suspected that the body can switch between the 2 pathways, even

though one or the other may appear dominant.

My guess was more simplistic and I'll use my guerrila warfare

analogy:

You have this group (or multiple groups) of bad guys (Pathogens), and

they have more than one camouflage jacket (virus or bacteria coat)

that makes them almost invisable when they venture out of their very

very good hiding places (Tissues and cells). They may or may not

want to acquire a new piece of territory from time to time, or they

may be satisfied to keep their populations small and in one area.

And they have to sustain their lives by eating., and producting

waste-

So their presence is felt by the locals (the body or host feels

sick) but because their presence is not known - no one makes the call

to send the troops out to look for them. This is an important

distinction - the CALL isn't even made to bring out the troops to

even look for the pathogen. That's my definition of a stealth

pathogen -

Stealth is not one that the body *knows* is there but just can't

get get at it.(like h. pylori)

Then (like in AIDS) the call is made- but there are no troops to

respond (that's when the immune system is truly called supressed)

So... to get on to your case.

You have a resident stealth pathogen -we'll assume undetected by

your immune system and you are host/pathogen adapted.

Now... here comes a new bad bug with a mostly new (molecular)

configuration that your locals (immune system) has never seen before.

So the call is made for the the troops and the response is either

massive or specialized and the weaponry may be increased.

So, although the new invader is 'almost' completely novel to the

host- it has a protein on it's coat in abundance, which is just

similar enough to an obscure (but important) protein carried on the

stealth resident... therefore possibly making the resident bug

becoming a 'collateral TARGET' of the new troops with the new

weapons. Once the resident bug is damaged- more of it's recognized-

and the call is made for a different set of troops - the invisable

now made visable.

So you can't just 'boost' the immune system if you do not know the

target.... or you could get what I call 'collateral damage'.

Well. It took a long time to explain my simple theory.

I have always though of bacteria and virus as kingdoms unto

themselves with a will to survive and the ability to adapt to their

world.

We are the world to many of them.

I just want to live in peace with them.

Barb

___________________________________________________________________

nAndInflammation2 , " Jaep " <Jaep@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Barb , yes it must be something like that ...I sent the same

post to a

> number of contacts ..I had the reply back from one very qualified

to give an

> answer ..as you see things are not clear even at the top.....To me

it poses

> more questions , if my IS is powering up against the old enemy then

what

> about the question of stealth? if the nano /spiros do not present

as an

> antigen and subsequently we do not produce antibodies against the

bug ..then

> how is it that when the IS is switched on by a flu bug it suddenly

> recognises the years standing pre-existing bug?? ...The anergy

theory below

> must be front runner at the moment ..I hope it is the case ...it

means that

> we should have a powerful weapon in an immune booster ..better than

a bomb

> proof bug that can hide from our Immune system... PS Barb you

could be

> living proof that the IS can overcome , that is given the right

> circumstances

>

>

>

>

> Thank you for your email. It is all very interesting, and I can't

claim to

> be able to explain it with any certainty! I know the theory. What

happens

> in reality might be quite different.

>

> Anyway, I suspect it might have something to do with Th1 versus Th2

> activity, and general turning off of the immune response with time,

even if

> the infection is not fully resolved. A random search found the

link below

> which gives reasonably correct info on Th1 and Th2:

>

>

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/T/Th1_Th2.html

>

> So a new infection might trigger a different subset of T cells (Th1

and Th2

> is actually an over simplification of what actually is there) thus

> influencing the original immune response.

>

> I hope the improvement lasts.

>

> All the best

>

>

> [infections] Re: Boosting the Immune system

>

>

> Hi :

> In this specific case, it might be that your " guest " bug has the

> same (specific) vunerablities as the residet bug. I would think it

> would have to be that if your normal symptoms were getting better

> while the body mounts the response to the new guy in town.

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the rounds.

> It's

> > highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye's sickness,

> grade one

> > sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a

> flu type

> > bug. It's so contagious that schools are being closed in an

> attempt to

> > control the infection..

> >

> > Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering

up

> against

> > the new invader is obviously working against the old

> enemy .There's no

> > mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no longer

> crackle

> > when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching joints

> are no

> > more ,etc, etc;

> > It's happened before but this time it seems more dramatic,

surly ,

> when we

> > are challenged with " guest " bugs our existing infection should

> make hay

> > while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up

> against the

> > new invader we should experience an increase in existing symptoms

> as the

> > accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at least

> the

> > pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

> >

> > The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is

> layered

> > ,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long

> standing

> > stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune defences

> but for

> > obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be

> that when

> > a " guest " bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops work

> against

> > the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line

> treatment

> > should be boosting the immune system ..but I'm open to

> suggestions ..any

> > thoughts ..

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:

> 20/02/2006

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Umm, dunno , I wouldn't say a TH2 response is harmless...th1 th2... cell

mediated, humoral, innate, adaptive... Wound response ,normal response

...Take your pick, but the question is how much is down to the pathogen ?

The IS is pushed into a wound response in the absence of a presenting

antigen ..the triggering factor being the toxins & damage caused by the

pathogen

" Now... here comes a new bad bug with a mostly new (molecular)

configuration that your locals (immune system) has never seen before.

So the call is made for the the troops and the response is either

massive or specialized and the weaponry may be increased. "

Totally agree, But I would argue that a coincidental matching of surface

antigen presenting proteins between an invading virus and our existing

bacterial bug is... asking a bit....

I would put the view that when we first encounter our nano bacteria our IS

does not meet the challenge does not eradicate the infection , it could be

that the invader can switch the IS to wound response as per Trevor M &

smith ,that is by harnessing the runaway inflammatory response....The very

limited normal response quickly degenerates into a angergic [The opposite of

allergic, limited response] situation..... The new invader ,as you point

out generates a robust Immune response the new troops being effective

against both the old & the new...It calls into question the theory of

" stealth " Its clear to me that controlling inflammation + an immune booster

is very much worth considering ..

[infections] Re: Boosting the Immune system

>

>

> Hi :

> In this specific case, it might be that your " guest " bug has the

> same (specific) vunerablities as the residet bug. I would think it

> would have to be that if your normal symptoms were getting better

> while the body mounts the response to the new guy in town.

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the rounds.

> It's

> > highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye's sickness,

> grade one

> > sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a

> flu type

> > bug. It's so contagious that schools are being closed in an

> attempt to

> > control the infection..

> >

> > Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering

up

> against

> > the new invader is obviously working against the old

> enemy .There's no

> > mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no longer

> crackle

> > when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching joints

> are no

> > more ,etc, etc;

> > It's happened before but this time it seems more dramatic,

surly ,

> when we

> > are challenged with " guest " bugs our existing infection should

> make hay

> > while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up

> against the

> > new invader we should experience an increase in existing symptoms

> as the

> > accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at least

> the

> > pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

> >

> > The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is

> layered

> > ,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long

> standing

> > stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune defences

> but for

> > obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be

> that when

> > a " guest " bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops work

> against

> > the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line

> treatment

> > should be boosting the immune system ..but I'm open to

> suggestions ..any

> > thoughts ..

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:

> 20/02/2006

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't mean to imply TH2 was harmless to the host - I was thinking

it was harmless to an invader (of course lunless it was a parasite)

especially one that turns on that pathway instead of TH1.

And I do agree with the run-away inflammatory response (aka Trevor &

, Matt and ) . I also agreed that an immune modulator

taken along with abx is necessary to reduce inflammation so abx can

act.

I think scientists may find bacteria act alot more like viruses than

ever thought before- (i.e. no one doubts viruses lie latent in the

body) and there are some that think that now.

And we know that some things like a " slight case " of salmonella

can be beneficial, becuase the IS response to that kills some other

nasty bugs that were resident in the GI system.

SO there's probably alot more synergy - especially between bacteria,

virusus, the host and the immune system that we probably give credit.

Barb

wrote in part:

But I would argue that a coincidental matching of surface

antigen presenting proteins between an invading virus and our existing

bacterial bug is... asking a bit....

I would put the view that when we first encounter our nano bacteria

our IS

does not meet the challenge does not eradicate the infection , it

could be

that the invader can switch the IS to wound response as per Trevor M

&

smith ,that is by harnessing the runaway inflammatory response....The

very

limited normal response quickly degenerates into a angergic [The

opposite of

allergic, limited response] situation..... The new invader ,as you

point

out generates a robust Immune response the new troops being effective

against both the old & the new...It calls into question the theory of

" stealth " Its clear to me that controlling inflammation + an immune

booster

is very much worth considering ..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > We have at the moment here in the UK a nasty bug doing the

rounds.

> > It's

> > > highly contagious, symptoms include swollen sore eye's sickness,

> > grade one

> > > sore throat, diarrhea plus all the other symptoms that go with a

> > flu type

> > > bug. It's so contagious that schools are being closed in an

> > attempt to

> > > control the infection..

> > >

> > > Well I have the bug and guess what, my immune system on powering

> up

> > against

> > > the new invader is obviously working against the old

> > enemy .There's no

> > > mistaking it, despite not taking any medication my ears no

longer

> > crackle

> > > when I swallow , my slightly muzzy head has cleared, aching

joints

> > are no

> > > more ,etc, etc;

> > > It's happened before but this time it seems more dramatic,

> surly ,

> > when we

> > > are challenged with " guest " bugs our existing infection

should

> > make hay

> > > while the sun shines ..While our Immune systems are powering up

> > against the

> > > new invader we should experience an increase in existing

symptoms

> > as the

> > > accumulative effect of multiple infections weakens us…Or at

least

> > the

> > > pre-existing symptoms should not change let alone resolve..

> > >

> > > The only explanation I can think of is , As our immune system is

> > layered

> > > ,only elevating to the next level as and when required the long

> > standing

> > > stealth infection has evolved to negate first line immune

defences

> > but for

> > > obvious reasons not any other wave of immune cells .It could be

> > that when

> > > a " guest " bug elicits a next level response the fresh troops

work

> > against

> > > the pre-existing bug ..Anyway could be, could be our first line

> > treatment

> > > should be boosting the immune system ..but I'm open to

> > suggestions ..any

> > > thoughts ..

> > > --

> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.12/265 - Release Date:

> > 20/02/2006

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >