Re: Withdrawal from abx - Tempe

[Guest guest]

Hi Tempe:

I spent alot of hours reading as much as I could in the

Antimicrobial Chemotherapy Journals for the past 2 winters.

When you think about the chemistry of these antibiotics and read

about the other mechanism's they possess (besides being antimicrobial)

it seemed certainly plausible that body chemistry changes (including

in the brain) to accomodate the new chemistry of the abx.

There are plenty of drugs that the body adjusts to fairly

rapidly, and then when they are withdrawn - symptoms occurr.....

who's to say this doesn't happen with multiple combo's of prolonged

antibiotics? I think for me it surely did...

About a year into my Lyme therapy, I realized that my tinnitus

(which I'd had for over 10 years) was changing tone. Researching

tinnitus, I learned that it's considered a permanent condition if its

caused from damage to the cochlea, but not permanent if caused by the

central brain.. and if it changes tone - then it's coming from the

brain!!

Once this symptom started to change - it was really all over the

map - sometime loud, sometimes soft - two or 3 tones in one ear -

high ptched in the other - sometimes gone for a few hrs or a few days-

waxing and wanning like so many other Lyme symptoms do.

The longest time I think it took for me to get over periodic

symptoms after weaning down abx was about 4 to 6 weeks.. and this was

for the symptom of tinnitus, meaning I had off and on symptoms for

about 6 weeks or so after weaning down then completely stopping abx.

Barb

> Barb,

>

> It was kind of you to take the time to reply when you were out of

> town. Thank you.

>

> I agree with you. I've also thought that the pattern was too much

> the same after going off each antibiotic to be the bacteria

> replicating. And patients are advised to taper off every other

drug

> that goes into the brain and changes its chemistry, so it seems

> logical that we'd have to do the same with abx that we choose

> specifically for their capacity to get into the brain.

>

> Also, my experience in the early 1990s with taking abx only during

a

> relapse or flare and getting the disease into remission for 9 years

> tells me that pulsing can work.

>

> I had intended to taper down with my last week of rocephin, but

when

> I had to go off abruptly because of gallstones, I switched from 2g

> rocephin to 1g ceftin. Then I tapered from 500 mg ceftin to 125 mg

> over the next 4 days, then stopped.

>

> I guess what didn't work this time was that I switched abruptly

from

> rocephin to ceftin, and tried to do the tapering down with ceftin???

>

> Today is 2 weeks since stopping the rocephin & beginning the

tapering

> down with ceftin. Any memory about how long it would take to get

> over the " withdrawal " pains when you did quit w/o tapering

> sufficiently?

>

> Thank you again. Tempe

>

>

> -----------------------

> I - like every one else, intitially (the first 6 months to a

year

> > on abx) seemed to relapse a few days after stopping abx - I

> couldn't

> > understand this phenomonen.. Lyme- being a slow replicator should

> > not be able to miltiple that fast to produce symptoms in just a

few

> > days , or even a week off abx..

> >

> > So I tried weaning off abx (sometimes would take a week to wean

> > off) - and that seemed to avert this relapse thing.. so I started

> > wondering if the body compensated shome how to being on high dose

> > abx and maybe the symptoms after quitting cold turkey were

somehow

> > connected to abx- whithdrawal - in my case the abx I was using

also

> > had known anti-inflammatory mechanism besides being

antibacterial..

> > so I thought that may have had something to do with it. (anything

> > taking over 18 days seemed to have this relapse effect after

> > stopping))

> >

> > So the answer is yes- I did experience a worsening after I would

> > quit cold turkey, so I stopped quitting cold turkey.

> > If I was on a combo (or 3) I would wean off one at a time. I

> > pulsed my antibiotics- so I had lots of opportunities to try

> > starting and stopping.

> >

> > Remember- I used Ibuprofen as an anti inflammatory - and when I

> > would stop abx I found sometimes I had to increase the ibuprofen

> (or

> > wobenzymN) - but I was just as panicked as I think everyone is

when

> > symptoms come back when the stop abx.. it's amazing how dependant

> > you get on them and how fast ;-)... I used to get scared to go

off-

>

> > but my fear of collateral damage to my body was stronger than

that

> > fear - so I fiddled with ways to come off them. It was a constant

> > juggling act and very hard to decide what to do, and when to do

> it.

[Guest guest]

That is very interesting barb.

> > Barb,

> >

> > It was kind of you to take the time to reply when you were out of

> > town. Thank you.

> >

> > I agree with you. I've also thought that the pattern was too

much

> > the same after going off each antibiotic to be the bacteria

> > replicating. And patients are advised to taper off every other

> drug

> > that goes into the brain and changes its chemistry, so it seems

> > logical that we'd have to do the same with abx that we choose

> > specifically for their capacity to get into the brain.

> >

> > Also, my experience in the early 1990s with taking abx only

during

> a

> > relapse or flare and getting the disease into remission for 9

years

> > tells me that pulsing can work.

> >

> > I had intended to taper down with my last week of rocephin, but

> when

> > I had to go off abruptly because of gallstones, I switched from

2g

> > rocephin to 1g ceftin. Then I tapered from 500 mg ceftin to 125

mg

> > over the next 4 days, then stopped.

> >

> > I guess what didn't work this time was that I switched abruptly

> from

> > rocephin to ceftin, and tried to do the tapering down with

ceftin???

> >

> > Today is 2 weeks since stopping the rocephin & beginning the

> tapering

> > down with ceftin. Any memory about how long it would take to get

> > over the " withdrawal " pains when you did quit w/o tapering

> > sufficiently?

> >

> > Thank you again. Tempe

> >

> >

> > -----------------------

> > I - like every one else, intitially (the first 6 months to a

> year

> > > on abx) seemed to relapse a few days after stopping abx - I

> > couldn't

> > > understand this phenomonen.. Lyme- being a slow replicator

should

> > > not be able to miltiple that fast to produce symptoms in just a

> few

> > > days , or even a week off abx..

> > >

> > > So I tried weaning off abx (sometimes would take a week to

wean

> > > off) - and that seemed to avert this relapse thing.. so I

started

> > > wondering if the body compensated shome how to being on high

dose

> > > abx and maybe the symptoms after quitting cold turkey were

> somehow

> > > connected to abx- whithdrawal - in my case the abx I was using

> also

> > > had known anti-inflammatory mechanism besides being

> antibacterial..

> > > so I thought that may have had something to do with it.

(anything

> > > taking over 18 days seemed to have this relapse effect after

> > > stopping))

> > >

> > > So the answer is yes- I did experience a worsening after I

would

> > > quit cold turkey, so I stopped quitting cold turkey.

> > > If I was on a combo (or 3) I would wean off one at a time. I

> > > pulsed my antibiotics- so I had lots of opportunities to try

> > > starting and stopping.

> > >

> > > Remember- I used Ibuprofen as an anti inflammatory - and when

I

> > > would stop abx I found sometimes I had to increase the

ibuprofen

> > (or

> > > wobenzymN) - but I was just as panicked as I think everyone is

> when

> > > symptoms come back when the stop abx.. it's amazing how

dependant

> > > you get on them and how fast ;-)... I used to get scared to go

> off-

> >

> > > but my fear of collateral damage to my body was stronger than

> that

> > > fear - so I fiddled with ways to come off them. It was a

constant

> > > juggling act and very hard to decide what to do, and when to do

> > it.