Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Try this nelly, Still other scientists have directly implicated yeast and fungal toxins, called mycotoxins, in the cause of Crohn’s disease. Former World Health Organization expert Dr. A.V. Costantini has found that people with Crohn’s often have aflatoxin, a mycotoxin made by Aspergillus molds, in their blood. Barclay found that disease activity in patients with Crohn’s was lower while they followed a yeast-free diet, specifically avoiding baker’s and brewer’s yeasts.[9] Some feel that the yeast, Candida albicans, may be the cause of Celiac disease, also known as Sprue, or gluten-sensitive enteropathy.[10] Celiac disease, doctors presume, is caused by a reaction to a protein particle called gluten that exists in certain grains. This allergic-type reaction leads to inflammation and often severe symptoms in not only the intestines but also the entire body. Conventional treatment therefore involves suppressing the inflammation and symptoms with anti-inflammatory medications. It also requires the avoidance of these particular grains. Ironically, corn is a grain that does not contain gluten. It therefore falls in the “okay to eat” list offered by conventional practitioners and dieticians. Little do most practitioners know that corn is universally contaminated with mycotoxins. http://www.healthe-livingnews.com/articles/fungal_etiology_of_inflammatory_bowel_disease.html -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 28 September 2005 19:14infections Subject: Re: [infections] nelly Deb, Is a gluten-free diet good for alkalizing the blood? I have been on a no gluten diet for years, and whenever I have tried to go back to eating it, I am OK for a few days so I think, "goodo nothing is happening I might be able to start eating bread again" but after a few days WHAM! I am down for the count with a nasty vertigo episode. How do you see it all linking up? the alkalizing, the tini, the infections, the gluten? This is very interesting to me because I have never found an explanation for my not tolerating gluten, I have done all tests possible and I am not SUPPOSED to be intolerant to gluten, yet... Nelly [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes I would have thought so too,don't know the references for that info , I do know corn is blended ,corn from many locations are mixed together prior to processing and mycotoxins are incredible toxic Perhaps that's where the contamination comes from it ... Re: [infections] nelly> > > Deb,> > Is a gluten-free diet good for alkalizing the blood? I have been on a no> gluten diet for years, and whenever I have tried to go back to eating it, I> am OK for a few days so I think, "goodo nothing is happening I might be able> to start eating bread again" but after a few days WHAM! I am down for the> count with a nasty vertigo episode.> > How do you see it all linking up? the alkalizing, the tini, the> infections, the gluten?> > This is very interesting to me because I have never found an explanation> for my not tolerating gluten, I have done all tests possible and I am not> SUPPOSED to be intolerant to gluten, yet...> > Nelly> [infections] nelly> > > nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches,> dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with> salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree> cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really> seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more> effective than any other cat's claw i've tried...> may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long> enough and leave!> deb> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 , I can have corn and gluten-free bread without any problems. So although I am not saying toxins in general and mycotoxins in particular are not playing a part, but I can eat corn and nuts without any noticeable problems I am familiar with the Uni of Sunderland's research on autism and gut problems http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/gut.htm and I know that many people claim to know what causes Crohn's disease. I don't know so in the meantime I am staying off gluten, I would still like to understand why Deb linked gluten-free diets to things like plaquenil and salt/C. Nelly [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 , Barb, Deb, others, I thought I might actually post the part where they (the Uni of Sunderland) talk about the gut and autism. Reading it again I am noting that they mention clostridium as well as yeast as a cause of on-going brain dysfunction. I wonder how much of this relates to the way some of us improve a lot on imidazoles and anti-fungals like diflucan. Nelly http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/gut.htm The purpose of the gastro-intestinal tract, or gut, is multi-fold. Basically, it: i) Digests foods, ii) Absorbs small food particles to be converted into energy. iii) s nutrients like vitamins and minerals attached to carrier proteins across the gut lining into the bloodstream. iv) Contains a major part of the chemical detoxification system of the body, and v) Contains immunoglobulins or antibodies that act as the first line of defence against infection. The leaky gut (or LGS) is a poorly recognised but extremely common problem. It is rarely tested for. Essentially, it represents a hyperpermeable intestinal lining. In other words, large spaces develop between the cells of the gut wall, and bacteria, toxins and food leak in. The official definition is an increase in permeability of the intestinal mucosa to luminal macromolecules, antigens and toxins associated with inflammatory degenerative and/or atrophic mucosal damage. If the gut is not healthy, neither is the rest of the body. It is the point of fuel and nutrient entry. If healing is at a standstill look at the gut to see if this is the block. Chemical sensitivity, fibromyalgia and escalating food allergies are among the many problems caused by the leaky gut. If gas, bloating, abdominal pain, indigestion, alternating constipation and diarrhoea are symptoms, irritable bowel syndrome may not be all that's going on. The Mucosal Barrier The barrier posed by the intestinal mucosa is, even in normal subjects, an incomplete one. Small quantities of molecules of different sizes and characteristics cross the intact epithelium by both active and passive mechanisms. The route by which such transfer occurs is, at least in part, dependent on molecular size. Molecules up to about 5000 Daltons in size cross the epithelial membrane of the microvilli. Larger molecules may utilise an intercellular pathway or depend on being taken up by endocytosis entering the cell at the base of the microvilli. How Does The Gut Become Leaky? Once the gut lining becomes inflamed or damaged, this disrupts the functioning of the system. The spaces open up and allow large food antigens, for example, to be absorbed into the body. Normally the body sees only tiny food antigens. When it sees these new, larger ones, they are foreign to the body's defence system. So the attack results in the production of antibodies against once harmless, innocuous foods. Isn't Leakier Better? It might sound good that the gut can become leaky, because it would seem that the body would be better able to absorb more amino acids, essential fatty acids, minerals and vitamins. For the body to absorb a mineral it does not just slowly diffuse across the gut membrane it must be attached to a carrier protein. This protein hooks onto the mineral and actually carries it across the gut wall into the bloodstream. However, when the intestinal lining is damaged through inflammation these carrier proteins get damaged as well, so now the victim is vulnerable to developing mineral and vitamin deficiencies. The 7 stages of the 'inflamed’ gut. 1 . When the gut is inflamed, it does not absorb nutrients and foods properly and so fatigue and bloating can occur. 2. As mentioned previously, when large food particles are absorbed there is the creation of food allergies and new symptoms with target organs, such as arthritis or fibromyalgia. 3. When the gut is inflamed the carrier proteins are damaged so nutrient deficiencies occur which can also cause any symptom, like magnesium deficiency induced muscle spasm or copper deficiency induced high cholesterol. 4. Likewise when the detox pathways that line the gut are compromised, chemical sensitivity can arise. Furthermore the leakage of toxins overburdens the liver so that the body is less able to handle everyday chemicals. 5. When the gut lining is inflamed the protective coating of lgA (immunoglobulin A) is adversely affected and the body is not able to ward off protozoa, bacteria, viruses and yeast’s like candida. 6. When the intestinal lining is inflamed, bacteria and yeast’s are able to translocate. This means that they are able to pass from the gut lumen or cavity, into the bloodstream and set up infection anywhere else in the body. 7. The worst symptom is the formation of antibodies. Sometimes these leak across and look similar to antigens on our own tissues. Consequently, when an antibody is made to attack it, it also attacks our tissue. This is probably how autoimmune disease s tart. Rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, thyroiditis and many others are members of this ever-growing category of ‘incurable’ diseases. Reproduced by kind permission of Dr Glenn Gibson, University of Reading Autism and the Human Gut Flora Max BinghamFood Microbial Sciences Unit, Science and Technology Centre, Earley Gate, University of Reading, Whiteknights Road, Reading, Berkshire, UK. RG6 6BZ AbstractPrevious research into Autism has raised the possibility that a link exists between the disorder and the human gut microflora. Research has remained limited due to the unwillingness of the orthodox medical establishment to adopt treatments suggested by this research. This short review aims to summarise the research completed to date and evaluate the relevance of a link between autism and a possible imbalance in the human gut microflora. It appears that yeasts (Candida species in particular) and clostridia may play an important role in the development of autistic symptoms. It is suggested that the control of the growth of these species may reduce the severity of autistic symptoms but is unlikely to offer a cure.IntroductionPrevious research into Autism has raised the possibility that a link exists between the disorder and the human gut microflora. However the relevance of this to sufferers of Autism has remained somewhat un-researched. As a consequence, it appears that the treatments suggested previously have remained unused and regarded by the orthodox medical establishment as irrelevant. This short review will consider the limited research completed to date.Autism The term autism is usually associated with the syndrome first described by Kanner (1943). In more recent years specific criteria have been set out to aid in the diagnosis of the disorder (Shaw et al, 1999). Autism typically develops early in childhood, however causality, explanation and treatment are often hotly debated. Symptoms can include (but not necessarily), hyperactivity, loss of eye contact, decreased vocalisation (i.e. loss of language), stereotypical behaviours, poor academic performance and other similar social deficits. Other similar disorders exist. These include Asperger Syndrome, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) and many others, where symptoms are similar to Autism but specific differences are demonstrated. Yeast metabolites in the Urine of Autistic ChildrenYeasts constitute only a very small proportion of the population of the gut (Holzapfel et al, 1998) in normal conditions – possibly kept from growing via competition from bacterial species and certain immune functions. However, Shaw et al (1999) has proposed that Autism (or at least many of the symptoms) may be a consequence of an overgrowth of candida species and a selective IgA deficiency. Following treatment with antifungal drugs and a gluten and casein free diet, a child rated as having severe autism improved such an amount as to be classed as a higher functioning individual with autism.*It has been shown previously that children exhibiting autistic features have increased excretion of arabinose and the analogs of Krebs Cycle metabolites (including tartaric acid) (Shaw, Kassen & Chaves, 1995). Using Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS) to test for urinary metabolites, it was found that the children had extremely high values of tartaric acid. The only source of tartaric acid is yeast (Shaw, 1999). Many reports have suggested that the onset of autism may be related to the occurrence in children of otitis media (Kontstantareas & Homatidis, 1987). It is common to treat otitis media with some sort of broad-spectrum antibiotic. Intestinal overgrowth of yeast and certain anaerobic bacteria are a well documented outcome of the administration of broad spectrum antibiotics (Kennedy & Volz, 1983; Danna et al, 1991; Ostfield et al, 1977; Kinsman et al, 1989; Van der Waaij, 1987; Samsonis et al, 1993, 1994a,. To evaluate this, it is known that Shaw (1999, 1996) has used GC/MS to test the urinary content of metabolites following the administration of Nystatin, an antifungal drug. Accordingly it was found that urinary tartaric acid declined to zero after about 60 days. When the Nystatin dose was cut to half, levels appeared to rise. Associated with this was seen an improvement in eye contact, a reduction in hyperactivity and an improvement in sleep patterns. It is unclear as to the method used, however these are interesting results. In other work, Shaw (1999) has evaluated the progress of the Herxheimer reaction of yeast die off. Values for the microbial metabolites described above increased dramatically during the first three days and began to normalise near day four. It is unclear as to the relevance of the point that many children take antibiotics for a whole series of illnesses, but do not develop autism.Gupta et al (1996) have studied some possible modulating factors in Autism. These include immunodeficiencies and probable differences in biochemical detoxication factors which appear to be very common in autism,. It has been estimated that a high percentage of autisitic children have a significant immune dysfunction that may include myeloperoxidase deficiency, a genetic deficiency that impairs the action of white blood cells on yeast cells, IgA deficiency, complement C4b deficiency, IgG deficiency or IgG subclass deficiency (Gupta et al, 1996). In the above study, a complete remission of autisitic symptoms was achieved by infusions of gamma globulin in one case. Shaw (1999) has suggested that it seems increasingly likely that the immune system takes an inventory of bacteria and yeast cells present in the gut soon after birth. This inventory is performed by CD5+ B-cells. These cells may play a role in regulating the secretion of IgA, the antibody class that is secreted into the intestinal tract and which may select which microorganisms are tolerated in the gut. Continuing, it is suggested that the eradication of the normal gut flora when antibiotics are administered repeatedly during infancy may cause the CD5+ cells to reject normal cells and award immune tolerance to species that potentially could cause harm. Either antibiotic use in infancy or yeast infection of the mother during pregnancy may result in later tolerance to yeast. This would possibly extend any remission from symptoms induced by methods of treatment suggested for autism.Yeast and Tartaric Acid ToxicityShaw, Kassen & Chaves (1995) noted in their initial study of the two brothers with autism, that in addition to their autistic characteristics, they exhibited severe muscle weakness. Both of these brothers excreted large amounts of tartaric acid in their urine. It is known that tartaric acid is an analog of malic acid. Malic acid is a key intermediate in the Krebs cycle which is responsible for the extraction of most of the energy from food substrates. Tartaric acid is presumably seen as toxic since it would inhibit this pathway and limit energy production. This may be the reason for the muscle weakness seen in the two autistic brothers. It has also been shown that Candida albicans produce gliotoxins (Shah and Larsen, 1991 and 1992) and immunotoxins (Podzorski et al, 1989; Witken, 1985), which may further impair the immune system. This would have relevance in terms of promoting yeast growth and increasing the chances of additional infections from bacteria leading to antibiotic usage again.Arabinose, Yeast and AutismShaw, Kassen & Chaves (1995), also identified high levels of arabinose in the urine of the autistic children. The exact biochemical role of arabinose is unknown, but a closely related yeast alcohol, arabitol has been used as a biochemical indicator of invasive candidiasis (Kiehn et al, 1979; Wong et al, 1990, Roboz & Katz, 1992). It is thought that arabitol produced by the yeast in the gut is absorbed into the portal circulation and then converted to arabinose by the liver. Elevated protein-bound arabinose has been found in the serum glycoproteins of schizophrenics (Varma & Hoshino, 1980) and in children with conduct disorders (Varma et al, 1983). Arabinose reacts with the epsilon amino group of lysine in a wide variety of proteins and may then form cross-links with arginine residues in an adjoining protein (Sell & Monnier, 1989). Arabinose has therefore been implicated in protein modification via cross-linking the proteins and altering both biological structures and functions of a wide variety of proteins. Shaw et al (1999) has proposed that this may include proteins involved in the interconnection of neurons. Decreased clinical symptoms of autism after antifungal treatment might be due to decreased arabinose and pentosidine formation (cross-linked proteins described above). This would result in fewer random neural connections and increased numbers of neural connections that are oriented to the child’s environment. The influence of a number of vitamins on candida activity and the operation of many metabolites of candida has been discussed (Mahler & Cordes, 1966). It is commonly found that children with autism experience improved symptoms following removal of gluten and casein from the diet (Shattock et al 1990, 1991, 1996, 1997; Reichelt et al, 1981, 1986; Knivsberg et al, 1990). It is unclear whether there is a link with arabinose and pentosidine formation, however given the wide distribution of these proteins in foods, there may be a relevant process involved with respect to autistic symptoms. Research into this may be useful.Clostridia and AutismBolte (1998) outlined the possibility of a subacute, chronic tetanus infection of the gut as the underlying cause for symptoms of autism observed in some individuals. Here it is postulated that a percentage of individuals with autism have a history of extensive antibiotic use. As above it is known that oral antibiotics significantly disrupt protective gut microflora, creating a favourable environment for colonisation by opportunistic pathogens. Clostridium tetani is a ubiquitous anaerobic bacillus that is known to produce a potent neurotoxin. The normal site of binding for tetanus neurotoxin is the spinal cord, yet the vagus nerve is capable of transporting tetanus neurotoxin, providing a route of ascent from the intestinal tract to the central nervous system and bypassing the spinal cord. The result would be the typical symptoms of a tetanus infection would not be evident. Once in the brain the tetanus neurotoxin disrupts the release of neurotransmitters. This may explain the wide variety of behavioural deficits apparent in autism. Bolte (1998) presents evidence of lab animals exhibiting many of these behaviours after being injected in the brain with tetanus neurotoxin, and also of children with autism showing a significant reduction in sterotyped behaviour following treatment with antimicrobials effective against intestinal clostridia.Shaw (1999) has developed a similar technique to yeast metabolite analysis by GC/MS for clostridia metabolites. While it has not been fully identified it has been shown that tyrosine derivative, a compound very similar but not identical to 3,4-dihydroyphenylpropionic acid is raised in the urine of children with various conduct disorders. It has also been pointed out that tyrosine, a substrate used by the body for the production of neurotransmitters, might imply that this unidentified product is important in altering key biochemical pathways for neurotransmitters in the brain. The relevance to autism remains unclear. Clearly a treatment to reduce the numbers of clostridia in the gut might help to reduce the effects of this inhabitation. However, clostridia are spore forming meaning recolonisation is possible even after treatment. The relevance of probiotic and prebiotic treatments has not been researched, yet this appears a reasonable approach to aid suppression of the clostridia species.Human Gut Flora and Gluten and Casein Intolerance in Autistic ChildrenYeasts, including Candida albicans are known to secrete a number of enzymes. These may include phospholipase, which will break down phopholipids and proteases such as secretory aspartate protease which break down proteins. These enzymes may partially digest the gut membranes and lining itself. Furthermore, it is known that the mycelium and chlamydospore are capable of tissue invasion (Nolting et al, 1994). It is likely that such factors could increase the permeability of the gut. This has important consequences in terms of food absorption and digestion. In terms of autism symptoms this may be highly relevant. It has been shown that incompletely broken down portions of gluten and casein may be crossing the gut into the blood and having an opioid effect in autistic children. Their symptoms being a consequence of this opioid action (Reichelt, 1981; Shattock et al, 1990). While many mechanisms have been suggested for this incomplete breakdown, it seems key that a yeast and/or clostridia overgrowth would affect this in some way. Conclusions Products of the human gut microflora in relation to autism and its symptoms appear to have been largely ignored in the past. However they appear to be relevant certainly in terms of yeast and clostridia species. Abnormal bacterial metabolites of tyrosine appear to be elevated in autism and this seems related largely to an overgrowth in clostridia species. Treatments to control this have resulted in significant clinical improvement or complete remission of symptoms in some cases. The issue of whether probiotic and prebiotic treatments are relevant, needs to be researched. Elevation of yeast metabolites such as tartaric acid and arabinose appears to be even more common in autism. The arabinose appears to be involved in abnormal protein binding which may adversely affect neuron connection and this may have relevance to the appearance of autistic symptoms. Given the intolerance autistic children appear to have to gluten and casein, an involvement of arabinose may be important. However, the exact biochemical role of arabinose remains unclear. Tartaric acid from the yeast overgrowth may have a direct toxic effect on the muscles and is a key inhibitor of the Krebs Cycle that supplies raw materials for gluconeogenesis. The implications of this appears to be detrimental to autistic function. While it is clear that abnormal metabolites from the human gut flora may contribute to autistic symptoms, it is certain that many other systems and pathways are involved. It is possible that many are functioning simultaneously but at varying levels between individuals. This may give rise to the differences in symptoms exhibited by sufferers. This may also explain the similarity of autism and other chronic behavioural disorders such as Asperger Syndrome, PDD, ADHD, ADD and Rett syndrome. While other pathways may exist, research into the role of human gut flora and the full identification of species involved may allow for more directed treatments. While it will not cure the disorder, modifications of gut flora function might improve symptoms significantly. [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 This is part of my web site Nelly , Sunderland have it wrong We now know more on what makes a microbe a permanent fixture in the gut ..I think it's safe to say your gut dysbiosis is the root of your problem ,that is regardless of what inappropriate bugs you host ...how to restore optimum levels of LAB is the holy grail ..once they are in place ..it's a very different world .. This is taken from Autism Research Unit, School of Sciences University of Sunderland, UK. It’s obvious they are feeling their way, for example taking probiotics for a month or so does not permanently restore gut flora, the task of changing gut flora is very much more involved than that ,they are assuming ! It is often thought that taking Probiotics will bring about a cure, the reasoning being that the good organisms will crowd out the bad. Unfortunately it doesn’t happen. What makes a microbe a permanent resident in the gut is unknown. Its a prime example of how the researchers together with most of the medical community totally underestimate the problem of yeast infections. [see Probiotics ..Tests & treatment] Yeast Infections It has been suggested that the presence of yeast infections in the gut and, perhaps, other parts of the body, could result in autism. Crook (1984) has done much to publicise these ideas and has been ridiculed for his ideas. Human intestines are packed with bacteria which break down certain foodstuffs in such a way that digestion is aided. Under certain circumstances, yeasts, which are fungi, can become established and will utilise foodstuffs to their advantage. The suggestion is that waste products from the yeast will be absorbed from the gut and create havoc within the body inhibiting development of the CNS and interrupting neurotransmission. A factor which promotes the overgrowth of the gut by yeasts is the use of antibiotics. It is indisputable that when antibiotics are taken to kill pathological, disease causing bacteria, they will also kill those bacteria which are normal inhabitants of the gut. The result is that fungi, which are unaffected by the antibiotics, will be able to multiply ("While the cat's away the mice will play.") and effectively take over. It has been commonly observed that children with autism often have a history of earache, ear infections or general hearing problems. In fact some authors (for example Gordon 1993) are convinced that autism is the result of ear infections and subsequent hearing impairments. Certainly, many children with autism have had grommets (known as tubes in the US) inserted in their ears prior to a diagnosis of autism. In any case, such children will be treated with antibiotics at a comparatively early age and the process could be triggered off by this means. Both the yeast and ear infections are explicable in other ways but the coincidental appearance of autism at around 2 years of age with ear infections and subsequent use of antibiotics cannot be ignored. Shaw (1995) has isolated a number of metabolites (such as arabinose, tartaric acid and 3-keto-glutaric acid) from the urine of people with autism. Since these substances are, as far as we know, more or less (but not totally) restricted to fungal sources. It is argued that these are evidence of fungal infection. It is suggested that some of these chemicals are sufficiently similar to normal metabolites of human cells, and specifically those involved in Krebs Cycle that this basic metabolic process is disrupted and autism is the ultimate consequence. A variety of methods have been developed to counteract or eliminate the effects of yeasts. Avoid the use of antibiotics. The use of antifungal medications. Nystatin and Diflucan have, amongst others, been employed for this purpose and successes are claimed. There remains an absence of published results from clinical trials so such claims are difficult to assess. Avoidance of foods which encourage yeast growth. Refined sugars which are very easily fermentable by yeasts should be avoided; foods which contain yeast ("Marmite" for example) should be eliminated. Replacement with beneficial organisms normally found in the gut. Acidophyllus capsules are readily available at "health food stores" or could be naturally augmented by eating yoghurts. It is recommended that they be taken for a month or so to restore the natural gut flora -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 28 September 2005 20:32infections Subject: Re: [infections] nelly , Barb, Deb, others, I thought I might actually post the part where they (the Uni of Sunderland) talk about the gut and autism. Reading it again I am noting that they mention clostridium as well as yeast as a cause of on-going brain dysfunction. I wonder how much of this relates to the way some of us improve a lot on imidazoles and anti-fungals like diflucan. Nelly http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/gut.htm The purpose of the gastro-intestinal tract, or gut, is multi-fold. Basically, it: i) Digests foods, ii) Absorbs small food particles to be converted into energy. iii) s nutrients like vitamins and minerals attached to carrier proteins across the gut lining into the bloodstream. iv) Contains a major part of the chemical detoxification system of the body, and v) Contains immunoglobulins or antibodies that act as the first line of defence against infection. The leaky gut (or LGS) is a poorly recognised but extremely common problem. It is rarely tested for. Essentially, it represents a hyperpermeable intestinal lining. In other words, large spaces develop between the cells of the gut wall, and bacteria, toxins and food leak in. The official definition is an increase in permeability of the intestinal mucosa to luminal macromolecules, antigens and toxins associated with inflammatory degenerative and/or atrophic mucosal damage. If the gut is not healthy, neither is the rest of the body. It is the point of fuel and nutrient entry. If healing is at a standstill look at the gut to see if this is the block. Chemical sensitivity, fibromyalgia and escalating food allergies are among the many problems caused by the leaky gut. If gas, bloating, abdominal pain, indigestion, alternating constipation and diarrhoea are symptoms, irritable bowel syndrome may not be all that's going on. The Mucosal Barrier The barrier posed by the intestinal mucosa is, even in normal subjects, an incomplete one. Small quantities of molecules of different sizes and characteristics cross the intact epithelium by both active and passive mechanisms. The route by which such transfer occurs is, at least in part, dependent on molecular size. Molecules up to about 5000 Daltons in size cross the epithelial membrane of the microvilli. Larger molecules may utilise an intercellular pathway or depend on being taken up by endocytosis entering the cell at the base of the microvilli. How Does The Gut Become Leaky? Once the gut lining becomes inflamed or damaged, this disrupts the functioning of the system. The spaces open up and allow large food antigens, for example, to be absorbed into the body. Normally the body sees only tiny food antigens. When it sees these new, larger ones, they are foreign to the body's defence system. So the attack results in the production of antibodies against once harmless, innocuous foods. Isn't Leakier Better? It might sound good that the gut can become leaky, because it would seem that the body would be better able to absorb more amino acids, essential fatty acids, minerals and vitamins. For the body to absorb a mineral it does not just slowly diffuse across the gut membrane it must be attached to a carrier protein. This protein hooks onto the mineral and actually carries it across the gut wall into the bloodstream. However, when the intestinal lining is damaged through inflammation these carrier proteins get damaged as well, so now the victim is vulnerable to developing mineral and vitamin deficiencies. The 7 stages of the 'inflamed’ gut. 1 . When the gut is inflamed, it does not absorb nutrients and foods properly and so fatigue and bloating can occur. 2. As mentioned previously, when large food particles are absorbed there is the creation of food allergies and new symptoms with target organs, such as arthritis or fibromyalgia. 3. When the gut is inflamed the carrier proteins are damaged so nutrient deficiencies occur which can also cause any symptom, like magnesium deficiency induced muscle spasm or copper deficiency induced high cholesterol. 4. Likewise when the detox pathways that line the gut are compromised, chemical sensitivity can arise. Furthermore the leakage of toxins overburdens the liver so that the body is less able to handle everyday chemicals. 5. When the gut lining is inflamed the protective coating of lgA (immunoglobulin A) is adversely affected and the body is not able to ward off protozoa, bacteria, viruses and yeast’s like candida. 6. When the intestinal lining is inflamed, bacteria and yeast’s are able to translocate. This means that they are able to pass from the gut lumen or cavity, into the bloodstream and set up infection anywhere else in the body. 7. The worst symptom is the formation of antibodies. Sometimes these leak across and look similar to antigens on our own tissues. Consequently, when an antibody is made to attack it, it also attacks our tissue. This is probably how autoimmune disease s tart. Rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, thyroiditis and many others are members of this ever-growing category of ‘incurable’ diseases. Reproduced by kind permission of Dr Glenn Gibson, University of Reading Autism and the Human Gut Flora Max BinghamFood Microbial Sciences Unit, Science and Technology Centre, Earley Gate, University of Reading, Whiteknights Road, Reading, Berkshire, UK. RG6 6BZ AbstractPrevious research into Autism has raised the possibility that a link exists between the disorder and the human gut microflora. Research has remained limited due to the unwillingness of the orthodox medical establishment to adopt treatments suggested by this research. This short review aims to summarise the research completed to date and evaluate the relevance of a link between autism and a possible imbalance in the human gut microflora. It appears that yeasts (Candida species in particular) and clostridia may play an important role in the development of autistic symptoms. It is suggested that the control of the growth of these species may reduce the severity of autistic symptoms but is unlikely to offer a cure.IntroductionPrevious research into Autism has raised the possibility that a link exists between the disorder and the human gut microflora. However the relevance of this to sufferers of Autism has remained somewhat un-researched. As a consequence, it appears that the treatments suggested previously have remained unused and regarded by the orthodox medical establishment as irrelevant. This short review will consider the limited research completed to date.Autism The term autism is usually associated with the syndrome first described by Kanner (1943). In more recent years specific criteria have been set out to aid in the diagnosis of the disorder (Shaw et al, 1999). Autism typically develops early in childhood, however causality, explanation and treatment are often hotly debated. Symptoms can include (but not necessarily), hyperactivity, loss of eye contact, decreased vocalisation (i.e. loss of language), stereotypical behaviours, poor academic performance and other similar social deficits. Other similar disorders exist. These include Asperger Syndrome, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) and many others, where symptoms are similar to Autism but specific differences are demonstrated. Yeast metabolites in the Urine of Autistic ChildrenYeasts constitute only a very small proportion of the population of the gut (Holzapfel et al, 1998) in normal conditions – possibly kept from growing via competition from bacterial species and certain immune functions. However, Shaw et al (1999) has proposed that Autism (or at least many of the symptoms) may be a consequence of an overgrowth of candida species and a selective IgA deficiency. Following treatment with antifungal drugs and a gluten and casein free diet, a child rated as having severe autism improved such an amount as to be classed as a higher functioning individual with autism.*It has been shown previously that children exhibiting autistic features have increased excretion of arabinose and the analogs of Krebs Cycle metabolites (including tartaric acid) (Shaw, Kassen & Chaves, 1995). Using Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS) to test for urinary metabolites, it was found that the children had extremely high values of tartaric acid. The only source of tartaric acid is yeast (Shaw, 1999). Many reports have suggested that the onset of autism may be related to the occurrence in children of otitis media (Kontstantareas & Homatidis, 1987). It is common to treat otitis media with some sort of broad-spectrum antibiotic. Intestinal overgrowth of yeast and certain anaerobic bacteria are a well documented outcome of the administration of broad spectrum antibiotics (Kennedy & Volz, 1983; Danna et al, 1991; Ostfield et al, 1977; Kinsman et al, 1989; Van der Waaij, 1987; Samsonis et al, 1993, 1994a,. To evaluate this, it is known that Shaw (1999, 1996) has used GC/MS to test the urinary content of metabolites following the administration of Nystatin, an antifungal drug. Accordingly it was found that urinary tartaric acid declined to zero after about 60 days. When the Nystatin dose was cut to half, levels appeared to rise. Associated with this was seen an improvement in eye contact, a reduction in hyperactivity and an improvement in sleep patterns. It is unclear as to the method used, however these are interesting results. In other work, Shaw (1999) has evaluated the progress of the Herxheimer reaction of yeast die off. Values for the microbial metabolites described above increased dramatically during the first three days and began to normalise near day four. It is unclear as to the relevance of the point that many children take antibiotics for a whole series of illnesses, but do not develop autism.Gupta et al (1996) have studied some possible modulating factors in Autism. These include immunodeficiencies and probable differences in biochemical detoxication factors which appear to be very common in autism,. It has been estimated that a high percentage of autisitic children have a significant immune dysfunction that may include myeloperoxidase deficiency, a genetic deficiency that impairs the action of white blood cells on yeast cells, IgA deficiency, complement C4b deficiency, IgG deficiency or IgG subclass deficiency (Gupta et al, 1996). In the above study, a complete remission of autisitic symptoms was achieved by infusions of gamma globulin in one case. Shaw (1999) has suggested that it seems increasingly likely that the immune system takes an inventory of bacteria and yeast cells present in the gut soon after birth. This inventory is performed by CD5+ B-cells. These cells may play a role in regulating the secretion of IgA, the antibody class that is secreted into the intestinal tract and which may select which microorganisms are tolerated in the gut. Continuing, it is suggested that the eradication of the normal gut flora when antibiotics are administered repeatedly during infancy may cause the CD5+ cells to reject normal cells and award immune tolerance to species that potentially could cause harm. Either antibiotic use in infancy or yeast infection of the mother during pregnancy may result in later tolerance to yeast. This would possibly extend any remission from symptoms induced by methods of treatment suggested for autism.Yeast and Tartaric Acid ToxicityShaw, Kassen & Chaves (1995) noted in their initial study of the two brothers with autism, that in addition to their autistic characteristics, they exhibited severe muscle weakness. Both of these brothers excreted large amounts of tartaric acid in their urine. It is known that tartaric acid is an analog of malic acid. Malic acid is a key intermediate in the Krebs cycle which is responsible for the extraction of most of the energy from food substrates. Tartaric acid is presumably seen as toxic since it would inhibit this pathway and limit energy production. This may be the reason for the muscle weakness seen in the two autistic brothers. It has also been shown that Candida albicans produce gliotoxins (Shah and Larsen, 1991 and 1992) and immunotoxins (Podzorski et al, 1989; Witken, 1985), which may further impair the immune system. This would have relevance in terms of promoting yeast growth and increasing the chances of additional infections from bacteria leading to antibiotic usage again.Arabinose, Yeast and AutismShaw, Kassen & Chaves (1995), also identified high levels of arabinose in the urine of the autistic children. The exact biochemical role of arabinose is unknown, but a closely related yeast alcohol, arabitol has been used as a biochemical indicator of invasive candidiasis (Kiehn et al, 1979; Wong et al, 1990, Roboz & Katz, 1992). It is thought that arabitol produced by the yeast in the gut is absorbed into the portal circulation and then converted to arabinose by the liver. Elevated protein-bound arabinose has been found in the serum glycoproteins of schizophrenics (Varma & Hoshino, 1980) and in children with conduct disorders (Varma et al, 1983). Arabinose reacts with the epsilon amino group of lysine in a wide variety of proteins and may then form cross-links with arginine residues in an adjoining protein (Sell & Monnier, 1989). Arabinose has therefore been implicated in protein modification via cross-linking the proteins and altering both biological structures and functions of a wide variety of proteins. Shaw et al (1999) has proposed that this may include proteins involved in the interconnection of neurons. Decreased clinical symptoms of autism after antifungal treatment might be due to decreased arabinose and pentosidine formation (cross-linked proteins described above). This would result in fewer random neural connections and increased numbers of neural connections that are oriented to the child’s environment. The influence of a number of vitamins on candida activity and the operation of many metabolites of candida has been discussed (Mahler & Cordes, 1966). It is commonly found that children with autism experience improved symptoms following removal of gluten and casein from the diet (Shattock et al 1990, 1991, 1996, 1997; Reichelt et al, 1981, 1986; Knivsberg et al, 1990). It is unclear whether there is a link with arabinose and pentosidine formation, however given the wide distribution of these proteins in foods, there may be a relevant process involved with respect to autistic symptoms. Research into this may be useful.Clostridia and AutismBolte (1998) outlined the possibility of a subacute, chronic tetanus infection of the gut as the underlying cause for symptoms of autism observed in some individuals. Here it is postulated that a percentage of individuals with autism have a history of extensive antibiotic use. As above it is known that oral antibiotics significantly disrupt protective gut microflora, creating a favourable environment for colonisation by opportunistic pathogens. Clostridium tetani is a ubiquitous anaerobic bacillus that is known to produce a potent neurotoxin. The normal site of binding for tetanus neurotoxin is the spinal cord, yet the vagus nerve is capable of transporting tetanus neurotoxin, providing a route of ascent from the intestinal tract to the central nervous system and bypassing the spinal cord. The result would be the typical symptoms of a tetanus infection would not be evident. Once in the brain the tetanus neurotoxin disrupts the release of neurotransmitters. This may explain the wide variety of behavioural deficits apparent in autism. Bolte (1998) presents evidence of lab animals exhibiting many of these behaviours after being injected in the brain with tetanus neurotoxin, and also of children with autism showing a significant reduction in sterotyped behaviour following treatment with antimicrobials effective against intestinal clostridia.Shaw (1999) has developed a similar technique to yeast metabolite analysis by GC/MS for clostridia metabolites. While it has not been fully identified it has been shown that tyrosine derivative, a compound very similar but not identical to 3,4-dihydroyphenylpropionic acid is raised in the urine of children with various conduct disorders. It has also been pointed out that tyrosine, a substrate used by the body for the production of neurotransmitters, might imply that this unidentified product is important in altering key biochemical pathways for neurotransmitters in the brain. The relevance to autism remains unclear. Clearly a treatment to reduce the numbers of clostridia in the gut might help to reduce the effects of this inhabitation. However, clostridia are spore forming meaning recolonisation is possible even after treatment. The relevance of probiotic and prebiotic treatments has not been researched, yet this appears a reasonable approach to aid suppression of the clostridia species.Human Gut Flora and Gluten and Casein Intolerance in Autistic ChildrenYeasts, including Candida albicans are known to secrete a number of enzymes. These may include phospholipase, which will break down phopholipids and proteases such as secretory aspartate protease which break down proteins. These enzymes may partially digest the gut membranes and lining itself. Furthermore, it is known that the mycelium and chlamydospore are capable of tissue invasion (Nolting et al, 1994). It is likely that such factors could increase the permeability of the gut. This has important consequences in terms of food absorption and digestion. In terms of autism symptoms this may be highly relevant. It has been shown that incompletely broken down portions of gluten and casein may be crossing the gut into the blood and having an opioid effect in autistic children. Their symptoms being a consequence of this opioid action (Reichelt, 1981; Shattock et al, 1990). While many mechanisms have been suggested for this incomplete breakdown, it seems key that a yeast and/or clostridia overgrowth would affect this in some way. Conclusions Products of the human gut microflora in relation to autism and its symptoms appear to have been largely ignored in the past. However they appear to be relevant certainly in terms of yeast and clostridia species. Abnormal bacterial metabolites of tyrosine appear to be elevated in autism and this seems related largely to an overgrowth in clostridia species. Treatments to control this have resulted in significant clinical improvement or complete remission of symptoms in some cases. The issue of whether probiotic and prebiotic treatments are relevant, needs to be researched. Elevation of yeast metabolites such as tartaric acid and arabinose appears to be even more common in autism. The arabinose appears to be involved in abnormal protein binding which may adversely affect neuron connection and this may have relevance to the appearance of autistic symptoms. Given the intolerance autistic children appear to have to gluten and casein, an involvement of arabinose may be important. However, the exact biochemical role of arabinose remains unclear. Tartaric acid from the yeast overgrowth may have a direct toxic effect on the muscles and is a key inhibitor of the Krebs Cycle that supplies raw materials for gluconeogenesis. The implications of this appears to be detrimental to autistic function. While it is clear that abnormal metabolites from the human gut flora may contribute to autistic symptoms, it is certain that many other systems and pathways are involved. It is possible that many are functioning simultaneously but at varying levels between individuals. This may give rise to the differences in symptoms exhibited by sufferers. This may also explain the similarity of autism and other chronic behavioural disorders such as Asperger Syndrome, PDD, ADHD, ADD and Rett syndrome. While other pathways may exist, research into the role of human gut flora and the full identification of species involved may allow for more directed treatments. While it will not cure the disorder, modifications of gut flora function might improve symptoms significantly. [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 , What would you suggest to someone who like me has been down the yeast path in a big, big way, every possible means of intervention possible known to mankind? I have done it all for lenghthy periods of time and still do (apart from the diflucan which I found a bit harsh on my liver after two months +) and no help (well i would probably be worse if I didn't do all the beat-the-yeast things) but no improvements. Abx and anti-malarials are the only things that have helped me stay alive and imidazoles are the only abx that have had a clear-cut effect on my brain symptoms. Nelly [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Well , lengthy periods of time ..It took me 18 months of continuous treatment with prescription Antifungals to tame my yeast .. & then a bacterial infection came to the fore...I would say try the non systemic AF Nysatin & amph B ..see if your liver protests on those ..it could be toxins released by the drugs causing the problem ...After a while on those when you have a better picture on what's going on, look to Myhills dysbiosis treatments both bacterial & yeast type http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=271 and http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=298 Trouble is it's straight forward in eradicating most ofhe gut flora ..but I would;d argue with the effectiveness of repopulating with commercially available probiotics ..It's clear that as foreign bacteria we produce antibodies against them .Bacteria from a healthy stool though is effective , it looks like the bacteria retains the recognition code that our host bacteria possess it is regarded as self. How to plug into this precious resource is the question , who has decent stools ? Im in the same boat as you BTW ..although not a debilitating condition wirth me, i still have the wrong flora .. Perhaps we should ask this group the question http://www.fecaltransfusionfoundation.org/history.html -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Nelly PointisSent: 28 September 2005 21:58infections Subject: Re: [infections] nelly , What would you suggest to someone who like me has been down the yeast path in a big, big way, every possible means of intervention possible known to mankind? I have done it all for lenghthy periods of time and still do (apart from the diflucan which I found a bit harsh on my liver after two months +) and no help (well i would probably be worse if I didn't do all the beat-the-yeast things) but no improvements. Abx and anti-malarials are the only things that have helped me stay alive and imidazoles are the only abx that have had a clear-cut effect on my brain symptoms. Nelly [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 , Been on ampho B for ...only 5 years! Among everything else against yeast. Try me , and see if I haven't been on it ! I had diarrhea/loose bowels constantly for nearly 20 years, the abx + everything else I do seems to have conquered that, my stools are now perfectly normal but I am still very sick. Thanks for the link on fecal transfusion but I don't think I am ready for that! Especially as I seem to have improved my stools (if not my gut function) immensely, so I think I'll keep on keeping on with my commercial probiotics and the rest (BTW, I use Jarrows Jarodophilus the 1kg jar, and it seems to work for my gut) Nelly [infections] nelly nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited you long enough and leave! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Deb That hep B shot seems to do quite a few in- I know it didn't help me. Actually I was petrified when my daughter had it done recently at school. > hi nelly - i don't think i can logically link it all up - it's kind of based on my experience and intuitive feelings... > > first, somewhere someone posted or maybe it was on one of the celiac websites about neurological celiac disease...and i think that the etiology was lyme ....and that fit me to a T > > secondly, i'm type o blood - nobody ever mentions blood tyes on this list - i didn't have any symptoms until i became a vegetarian for 10 years starting in the mid- eighties (probably about the same time i got the hep b shots - i was a nurse and they were mandatory (i only mention this as hyde mentions in his paper about slow onset types and the hep b shots screwing with the immune system). and d'adamo (eat right for your blood type) says for type o's to avoid all wheat produtcs and gluten (also says to avoid corn but that seems to work ok with me).....this diet is quite similar to the kappa ayurvedic one...i asked my doc if the blood type - food diet was all hogwash and he stated that no, foods had antigens, too.... > > my experience - about three years ago i had 4 wonderful months - started about a month after i started shoe's no-amylose diet....even was able to get back on a bike and do 10 or so slightly hilly miles....was also losing about 5 lbs a month (i've put on 75 lbs since i became mostly housebound 6 years ago!!)...then my doc in early dec started me back on heparin - this time orally - and at my sister's engagement party around christmas i cheated on my diet- 3 weeks later i relapsed.....i didn't understand at that time that any teeny tiny amout of gluten could do me in - or maybe it was the heparin as i wasn't on any antibx at all...or maybe, just fate!! have stayed pretty much low carb but not totally away from gluten - just didn't understand the damage in small amts it does to me ....i didn't eat some bread one day and crash the next.....more insidious than that.... > > a year and a half ago was finally diagnosed with babs (lyme by inference - lyme test now starting to become pos)....did 3 cycles of mepron and zith and starting doing better - small walks, etc.....then (without rechecking for babs or lyme which, in retrospect i think was a major error - i.e.probably should have stayed on that combo longer)....then i begged my doc to go on benicar......slowly worsened - had a small ileus in july or aug - cleared when i took a holiday from benicar - (in nov my doc kept me on benicar and switched me to mepron and ketek - at first it was for about a week a magic bullet!) then in jan and again in feb relapsed big time with 2 ileus' - really was ready to die - my mmp9 was 1400+...went on flagyl and slowly started to improve....about that time i read donta's paper where he mentions that lyme or antbx can totally screw up the gut flora and flagyl for some reason seems to help - it did with me.... i do think paul j and smart aussie are right on when they talk about gut flora and their endotoxins.....and i think that putting the body in an alkaline state is primary - for type o's that means no gluten or wheat... > > when i reached a plateau i asked my doc to put me on donta's plaquenil (an allkalizing agent) and biaxin regime - very slow ups and downs but i think the direction is up....when i crashed i added back flagyl and that helped in 24 -48 hrs......then read up on celiac disease and went gluten free. (over a month ago)....have now been dressed and out of the house for 5 days straight - a record for me...my mmp-9 is down to the 200's...i told my doc that my brain is healing faster than my body and he thinks it's due to the fact that flagyll penetrates better into all neuro cells.... and,my guess, is that it penetrates better if the body is alkaline.... > > so, i can't really tie it up scientifically - just a gut reaction...am also doing buhner's protodol - HEALING LYME - and the ca't claw that he recommends from raintree (not toa free) really seems to clean out my gut - much more effectively than other cat's claws... > > as you can see, i'm really a slow learner when it comes to listening to my body - but maybe this time.??????.....also, since i've gone gluten free my sweet tooth is gone - sugar acidizes.... > deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 It took me at least 10 months to repopulate my gut after a terrible bout with Salmonella (picked up in Mexico I think - and thank God it hit the day I got home and NOT in Mexico or on the plane). It was a bad enough case that at the end of it I shed the lining of my intestines- and let me tell you that's a shocker. I figure I got rid of ALOT of who knows what with that ordeal. My gut was actually improved after that. Three years after that incident - I started Lyme therapy, and after that abx therapy it took me about 8 months to get rid of Candida in the intestines.. (Ever try DanActive? Made by Dannon?) using enzymes (mostly Candex), Nystatin, and Lauricidin. Things have never worked better than they do now. I think is right. The gut is the seat (1st pass) of the immune system. If that's dysfunctional - you *have* to fix that, and it ain't easy. Thank Goodness My ALTMD agrees. Barb > Well , lengthy periods of time ..It took me 18 months of continuous > treatment with prescription Antifungals to tame my yeast .. & then a > bacterial infection came to the fore...I would say try the non systemic AF > Nysatin & amph B ..see if your liver protests on those ..it could be toxins > released by the drugs causing the problem ...After a while on those when you > have a better picture on what's going on, look to Myhills dysbiosis > treatments both bacterial & yeast type > http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=271 and > http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=298 > > Trouble is it's straight forward in eradicating most ofhe gut flora ..but I > would;d argue with the effectiveness of repopulating with commercially > available probiotics ..It's clear that as foreign bacteria we produce > antibodies against them .Bacteria from a healthy stool though is effective > , it looks like the bacteria retains the recognition code that our host > bacteria possess it is regarded as self. How to plug into this precious > resource is the question , who has decent stools ? Im in the same boat as > you BTW ..although not a debilitating condition wirth me, i still have the > wrong flora .. > > Perhaps we should ask this group the question > http://www.fecaltransfusionfoundation.org/history.html > Re: [infections] nelly > > > , > > What would you suggest to someone who like me has been down the yeast path > in a big, big way, every possible means of intervention possible known to > mankind? > > I have done it all for lenghthy periods of time and still do (apart from > the diflucan which I found a bit harsh on my liver after two months +) and > no help (well i would probably be worse if I didn't do all the > beat-the-yeast things) but no improvements. Abx and anti-malarials are the > only things that have helped me stay alive and imidazoles are the only abx > that have had a clear-cut effect on my brain symptoms. > > Nelly > [infections] nelly > > > nelly - although pretty much homebound i feel very lucky - no > headaches, dizzines, nausea......i think alkalizing the blood is key whether > with salt/c, or plaquenil, and/or a gluten free diet....i also use raintree > cat's claw ( recommended by buhner in his HEALING LYME book) which really > seems to help clean out the gut....it's not toa free but seems more > effective than any other cat's claw i've tried... > may the headaches, vertigo, etc decide that they have visited > you long enough and leave! > deb > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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