Igenex targeted

[Guest guest]

We are losing our LLMD's they won't treat us. Read on.

recommended in C.D.C. guidelines. Dr. , of IGeneX, estimated that his laboratory tested 50,000 to 75,000 patients each year. (Prices go up to $390 for a battery of tests it recommends.) ''These are patients who have been bounced around,'' he said. ''A lot of them were undertreated at some time, and their disease came back.''

Still, he went on, IGeneX runs the traditional tests accurately and gives doctors guidelines for interpreting them both by the C.D.C.'s conservative standard and by IGeneX's more liberal standard -- even though he asserted that the conservative standard would miss many cases of chronic Lyme infection.

He provided a reporter with a document showing that in each year since 2000, IGeneX had achieved scores of at least 97 percent accuracy on the Western blot and tests, well above the minimum 80 percent required by the state.

But Kenny, a spokesman for the State Department of Health, said the agency was not convinced that IGeneX was performing the recommended tests for the public in the same manner as it has been performing them to pass the state's proficiency review.

Moreover, Mr. Kenny said IGeneX had not supplied requested proof that its urine antigen test can be used to accurately diagnose Lyme disease.

Dr. says IGeneX has been working for more than two years to supply New York State with the proof it wants. ''It's been an exceedingly long process that's nearing completion,'' he said. Dr. Mead at the C.D.C. also confirmed that another laboratory, Bowen Research and Training Institute Inc. of Tarpon Springs, Fla., went beyond the agency's recommended tests.

The State of Florida denied its application last year for a license to perform tests meant to diagnose Lyme, but its founder and president, Dr. JoAnne Whitaker, asserts that the tests it continues to perform are for research purposes only.

Some patients insist that IGeneX's tests have been instrumental in detecting the Lyme disease that other laboratories missed. One such patient is Hamlen, 64, a plant biologist from land who worked at DuPont for 22 years before retiring recently. Tests run by IGeneX, he said, detected Lyme disease that was missed by other laboratories.

''If I had not had the positive result at IGeneX, I seriously question whether I would have been alive at this point,'' he said in a telephone interview. Before getting tested by IGeneX and going on intravenous antibiotics for 10 weeks, he said, ''all I could do at that point was lie on the couch.''

In contrast, Mr. Courcier's odyssey into the Lyme testing labyrinth began last year on the Sunday after Thanksgiving, when a severe pain in his leg led him to seek care at a walk-in clinic. Preliminary diagnoses of phlebitis and muscle strain proved inaccurate, and as the pain increased and spread, he finally went to the Mayo Clinic.

Doctors there told him that an initial test for Lyme disease came back negative, but they could offer no other clear diagnosis for what was ailing him.

Back home in Texas, Mr. Courcier was referred to a neurologist specializing in Lyme disease. The neurologist sent samples of his blood to IGeneX, as well as to Quest Diagnostics, one of the country's largest medical testing companies. Each lab followed the two-step process recommended by the C.D.C.

IGeneX and Quest Diagnostics performed the and the Western blot tests on Mr. Courcier's samples. The came back positive from both labs, suggesting that Mr. Courcier might have antibodies to B. burgdorferi.

On the Western blot tests, however, IGeneX sent back positive results, while the Quest testing came back negative.

Although his doctor started him on antibiotics to treat the possible infection, Mr. Courcier was encouraged by a colleague to visit Dr. Wormser, chief of the division of infectious diseases at New York Medical College in Valhalla, for another opinion. Dr. Wormser repeated the Western blot test and told him in June that he did not have Lyme disease.

At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he remained on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas. But by July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and stopped taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him feel worse.

''It's been a hell of an emotional roller coaster,'' said Mr. Courcier, who conceded that it was a comfort for a while to have a definite explanation for the pain and exhaustion that continue to plague him.

Dr. Mead of the C.D.C. said he sympathized with Mr. Courcier's plight. But for now, he said, patients and physicians should rely on the recommended two-step process. The tests, he said, are accurate in more than 90 percent of cases of long-term Lyme infection.

But he added that he was still troubled by the dispute. ''We don't want to be absolutely dogmatic that it's our way or the highway,'' he said. ''At the same time, it's clear there are tests out there for which there is really precious little to support their accuracy.''

[Guest guest]

This statement right here is a big problem that is only clouding the

issue:

At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he remained

on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas. But by

July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and stopped

taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him feel

worse.

I read this same rationale all the time, that because a person

reacts badly to one abx, it's some kind of proof that there's no

infection involved.

When is the medical community going to shine some light on this

entire antibiotic/infection debaucle? When are they going to educate

the public that all antibiotics do not work for all people or all

bugs due to individual organism mechanics or resistance?

Right now, the vast majority of the population has no clue when it

comes to this topic while the medical community perpetuates a total

myth about the use of antibiotics, claiming it's their " overuse " by

patients that's the problem, when it's really MISUSE, endorsed by

the doctors themselves!

And while we're being lectured by an ignorant media not to use

antimicrobial handsoap, millions of abx are pumped into our feed

animals on a daily basis.

What's wrong with this entire picture?

This is why I think we need to remember that most people don't

understand bacteria or antibiotics at all, and that we need to

continuously put information out there to help correct all the

misperceptions when it comes to antibiotic treatment.

penny

[Guest guest]

Penny

Very good post. I often say if your feel better or worse you have an

infection- while doing the antibiotics. The key is obviously how

long have they had it and how entrenched is the person's

infection.Unfortunately labs that make money and are a closed shop

as far as giving you the full facts are not helping anyone.You know

I picked up early on the mycoplasma rigmerol and found most people

don't really get nicholson nor his lab so forth coming with there

little scheme(like a conspiracy theory). Why would anyone want

misinformation that has NO TREATMENT.Doxycyline for a year ain't

worth squat and I don't think too much else is offered up in that

neck of the woods...Also a phone call from someone in california

that had 4- 2 pos 2 negative and the treatment she did, she didn't

notice anything.

These labs have a lot to answer for- you can almost see lyme with a

magnifying glass it's that big, and they DON'T HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY

to see it- 50 to 75,000 patients a year and they design a test to

check your immune response. Tarello a vet must be a rocket scientist

because a simple blood smear and the organisms are showing in the

billions?I just wish people would get on there phone and hassle

these labs to give them some scientific facts. And if your violently

ill your blood AIN " T STERILE. You'd think a nice picture from an

electron microscope, that have been around possably since the early

fifties, may be a better bet to have a good look at someones lyme.

Actually a better bet would be a PCR of the actual toxins that

should be unique if capable of causing pain and arthritis.

> This statement right here is a big problem that is only clouding

the

> issue:

>

> At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he remained

> on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas. But

by

> July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and stopped

> taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him feel

> worse.

>

> I read this same rationale all the time, that because a person

> reacts badly to one abx, it's some kind of proof that there's no

> infection involved.

>

> When is the medical community going to shine some light on this

> entire antibiotic/infection debaucle? When are they going to

educate

> the public that all antibiotics do not work for all people or all

> bugs due to individual organism mechanics or resistance?

>

> Right now, the vast majority of the population has no clue when it

> comes to this topic while the medical community perpetuates a

total

> myth about the use of antibiotics, claiming it's their " overuse "

by

> patients that's the problem, when it's really MISUSE, endorsed by

> the doctors themselves!

>

> And while we're being lectured by an ignorant media not to use

> antimicrobial handsoap, millions of abx are pumped into our feed

> animals on a daily basis.

>

> What's wrong with this entire picture?

>

> This is why I think we need to remember that most people don't

> understand bacteria or antibiotics at all, and that we need to

> continuously put information out there to help correct all the

> misperceptions when it comes to antibiotic treatment.

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

I agree with Liegners 1993 paper that we need to find better

treatments. If you read another piece in the NYTimes the last few

days, antibiotic resistance is posing a real problem, even when a

patient takes antibiotics for a bad cold. Studies they've done show

we easily breed resistant bacteria even with one course of

antibiotics--for example e.coli--leading in women to bladder

infections that are often not easily cured and require several

courses of antibiotics of different kinds (and of course, nobody

cultures out somebody's urine to test sensitivities...)

It IS a real problem, and I think we do have to give credit where

credit is due to the other side, that worries about months and years

of antibiotics. I do wonder, even if you are treating lyme disease

or something extremely serious that requires huge doses or IV doses

for many many months, or even years, or rotating antibiotics etc,

what resistant bacteria you are breeding that have nothing to do with

borrelia, and may come to haunt you later.

We just need better solutions than the current antibiotics. EIther

better methods of delivery (buckyballs, other methods) or entirely

novel approaches with DNA, RNA, etc--silencing genes in pathogens

thus rendering them no longer virulent. Or even adding bromelain to

antibiotics makes them more effective.

He could've felt worse on antibiotics simply from side effects. Who

knows. Its very confusing.

Yes, the testing needs to be better and more widely approved...even

then, however, antibody tests do not tell you whether the organism is

still actively present. Well, I'm off to go food shopping.

> This statement right here is a big problem that is only clouding

the

> issue:

>

> At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he remained

> on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas. But

by

> July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and stopped

> taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him feel

> worse.

>

> I read this same rationale all the time, that because a person

> reacts badly to one abx, it's some kind of proof that there's no

> infection involved.

>

> When is the medical community going to shine some light on this

> entire antibiotic/infection debaucle? When are they going to

educate

> the public that all antibiotics do not work for all people or all

> bugs due to individual organism mechanics or resistance?

>

> Right now, the vast majority of the population has no clue when it

> comes to this topic while the medical community perpetuates a total

> myth about the use of antibiotics, claiming it's their " overuse " by

> patients that's the problem, when it's really MISUSE, endorsed by

> the doctors themselves!

>

> And while we're being lectured by an ignorant media not to use

> antimicrobial handsoap, millions of abx are pumped into our feed

> animals on a daily basis.

>

> What's wrong with this entire picture?

>

> This is why I think we need to remember that most people don't

> understand bacteria or antibiotics at all, and that we need to

> continuously put information out there to help correct all the

> misperceptions when it comes to antibiotic treatment.

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

Was it " mycoplasma rigmerol " that explained the results of the study

Nelly posted, where ONLY those children with recurrent rtis who

tested positive for one of two pathogenic strains of mycloplasma

registered immediate relief when treated with zithromax? Are those

children any less well because the bugs that needed treatment

weren't on Tony's complete, explains-every-malady-known-to-man list

of three, count em three, pathogens, staph, strep and psuedomonas?

Did they deserve relief any less because you can't grow or visualize

their bugs in a petree dish?

> > This statement right here is a big problem that is only clouding

> the

> > issue:

> >

> > At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he

remained

> > on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas.

But

> by

> > July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and stopped

> > taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him feel

> > worse.

> >

> > I read this same rationale all the time, that because a person

> > reacts badly to one abx, it's some kind of proof that there's no

> > infection involved.

> >

> > When is the medical community going to shine some light on this

> > entire antibiotic/infection debaucle? When are they going to

> educate

> > the public that all antibiotics do not work for all people or

all

> > bugs due to individual organism mechanics or resistance?

> >

> > Right now, the vast majority of the population has no clue when

it

> > comes to this topic while the medical community perpetuates a

> total

> > myth about the use of antibiotics, claiming it's their " overuse "

> by

> > patients that's the problem, when it's really MISUSE, endorsed

by

> > the doctors themselves!

> >

> > And while we're being lectured by an ignorant media not to use

> > antimicrobial handsoap, millions of abx are pumped into our feed

> > animals on a daily basis.

> >

> > What's wrong with this entire picture?

> >

> > This is why I think we need to remember that most people don't

> > understand bacteria or antibiotics at all, and that we need to

> > continuously put information out there to help correct all the

> > misperceptions when it comes to antibiotic treatment.

> >

> > penny

[Guest guest]

You sound like a turkey the way you carry on. Remember all these so

called fixed this with that studies that people keep throwing up

don't really have the patients available on the other side of the

telephone line, because I can assure you if they existed as Penny

will vouch- we'd track them down. Also don't forget we need to be

CURED not put into remission for a while.

Also Mr. smarty pants why don't you go get yourself a mycoplamsa

diagnosis and set out and do the doxy.I think you'd wake up to

yourself one day and realise that INVISABLE TREATMENTS of INVISABLE

ORGANISMS doesn't get anyone well.

My complete bugs list is made of many different species that you

have no idea exist because you want to hold on to the fashionable

mycoplasma, lyme crapola stuff. Ekenella,

serratia,cornybacteria,actinomyces are others recovered that you

know nothing about.I sifted thru this stuff very carefully and

spoke, REPEAT SPOKE directly to many people that are frontline

fighters in autoimmune ilnesses that hunt all this stuff down.Again

I gurantee you that if we had people getting mycoplasma 'tested and

cured,' we would be in contact with them over the phone and we'd

even visit them to FIND OUT THERE EXACT STORY.An egs. of this

passion is our own Penny a while back was given all the rife spiel

and hand in hand with a fellow sufferer in san diego they left not a

stone unturned to hunt down the sellers and cured folk to get there

stories on rife and the different systems.The ozone crowd were also

hunted and tracked and even found in hillbilly area's to give us

some facts.You've basically got to get in with groups of people

that 'network the facts' and avoid the bullshit surrounding these

ilnesses. I was possably the first to blow rasberries at The MP

protocol, the potentiates antibiotics theory didn't go past the

first day with me. when you have a problem and have spent a

lifetime fixing problems (which is my background) you learn which

corner of the planet to ring to make enquiries and which people to

crack for knowledge. I was reading the medical libraries 4 to 5

years ago and realised- baby you guys don't understand infections

one iota so you've got nothing more to offer me.And please explain

how an organism the size of a truck in microbiology that can cause

so much damage, can be so invisable in this 21st century.When you

get african sleeping sickness (a borrelia infection) your blood is

swimming with spirochetes that number something in the same vein as

malaria.Mate, major ilness on a massive scale is not some pom pom

fairy type infection.You've got major, major visual stuff going on

that no-one bothers to get scans of. So sorry to sound like a

smarty pants but don't get stuck like many with these silly belief

systems and try and convince the real scientists of this world that

they don't get it.If you were involved in a murder case with what

your presenting you'd loose the case because you can't produce the

murder weapon.Also Mattman was my favourite reseacher until I

realised how all her work on cell wall deficient bacteria never

HELPED ONE PERSON.Imagine!!!! no antibiotic testing seems to take

place.What's wrong with this picture? you discover a disease process

in a human and you can't offer a treatment strategy ???I at least am

constantly accumulating antibiotic groups and feel I have more drugs

to play with than major hospital labs.Wake up and get your finger

out of your arse and on the phone and start talking to and finding

people that are cured that we can all share there experiences with,

instaed of practising and wasting wonderfull writing skills on

autoimmune forums.This ilness needs people to constantly evolve

different strategies so that they don't get stuck on first base and

wait for there doctors to make all the medical decisions for them-

cause it will never happen.

Also Mr. wiseman why is it you don't ring igenex to get the correct

treatment strategy for killing the bacteria they so comfortably find?

Is there some embarrasement there? I don't think I would have gone

past the first week without having made this call if I had a lyme

diagnosis.How is it your comfortable with this?Atrophied glands and

cancerous thyroids are some of the things to also look for instead

of hanging your hat on the blind stuff.I mean these ilnesses throw

up so much that is constantly being ignored, it's rediculous.

> > > This statement right here is a big problem that is only

clouding

> > the

> > > issue:

> > >

> > > At first, Mr. Courcier did not know whom to trust, and he

> remained

> > > on the antibiotics therapy prescribed by his doctor in Texas.

> But

> > by

> > > July he concluded that he did not have Lyme disease and

stopped

> > > taking the antibiotics, which he said were only making him

feel

> > > worse.

> > >

> > > I read this same rationale all the time, that because a person

> > > reacts badly to one abx, it's some kind of proof that there's

no

> > > infection involved.

> > >

> > > When is the medical community going to shine some light on

this

> > > entire antibiotic/infection debaucle? When are they going to

> > educate

> > > the public that all antibiotics do not work for all people or

> all

> > > bugs due to individual organism mechanics or resistance?

> > >

> > > Right now, the vast majority of the population has no clue

when

> it

> > > comes to this topic while the medical community perpetuates a

> > total

> > > myth about the use of antibiotics, claiming it's

their " overuse "

> > by

> > > patients that's the problem, when it's really MISUSE, endorsed

> by

> > > the doctors themselves!

> > >

> > > And while we're being lectured by an ignorant media not to use

> > > antimicrobial handsoap, millions of abx are pumped into our

feed

> > > animals on a daily basis.

> > >

> > > What's wrong with this entire picture?

> > >

> > > This is why I think we need to remember that most people don't

> > > understand bacteria or antibiotics at all, and that we need to

> > > continuously put information out there to help correct all the

> > > misperceptions when it comes to antibiotic treatment.

> > >

> > > penny