Re: Question for J. (or fungally interested bystanders)

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny , Your symptoms are familiar , I do think that it indicates a gut problem ...remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria from the gut was traced to the vagina... same mechanism here, The lymphatic system controls how we perspire we pump moisture from the gut to enable us to sweat!!!....I now believe 100% that Antifungal work against spirochetes, that is, directly against the cell wall. I agree that taking Fluconazole with vifend is not a good idea...Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non systemic AF's would help immensely ..Systemics do not treat gut based infection very well as the gut is poorly supplied with blood vessels. Vifend is one of the big guns , but it's not dramatically better than existing drugs ...I know one lady who spent £5,000 on the drug for no long term benefits .. This is where the argument comes in for eradicating pathogenic flora & repopulating with known colonising LAB probiotics , that is faecal probiotics .In short I don't think your solution is exclusively in drugs ...Hope this helps ..

Vifend [Voriconazole] Is one step beyond Fluconazole if you like, it has an extra molecule if I remember ..Its one of the latest Antifungals, Mercks canidas is another .The best is considered Micafungin [FK 463] Although the last two are at the moment IV only....see the site below click the drop down menu for more Antifungal drugs

http://www.doctorfungus.org/thedrugs/voriconazole.htm

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of penny Sent: 04 October 2005 21:17infections Subject: [infections] Question for J. (or fungally interested bystanders)Hey ,Well, after running low on diflucan, which seems to have lost some of its effectiveness anyway, I've developed a fungal overgrowth of sorts. It's mainly invisible bumps on my arms and legs as well as itching in my armpits and chest area (which gets quite annoying). You can't see it, but I'm positive it's fungal, yeast, candida etc., because the anti-fungals make that go away.Yesterday, my doc gave me a new anti-fungal called Vfend which some people are raving about. It seems to be helping already. But I have a couple of questions.1. What do you think of this drug?2. What do you think about taking it WITH Diflucan. My doc is very opposed to the idea of taking 2 antifungals at once, but personally, I want to nip this thing in the bud. The penicillin has been helping me tremendously, but I don't like this sudden fungus thingy happening, and don't want my gut to get all messed up, so any insights you can share would be most appreciated.thanks,penny

[Guest guest]

Thanks , for the info. I've been really busy and haven't had

time to check out drug interactions. I'll get some Nystatin next

time. Forgot it. :-(

>

>

> Hi Penny , Your symptoms are familiar , I do think that it

indicates a gut

> problem ...remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria

from the

> gut was traced to the vagina... same mechanism here, The lymphatic

system

> controls how we perspire we pump moisture from the gut to enable

us to

> sweat!!!....I now believe 100% that Antifungal work against

spirochetes,

> that is, directly against the cell wall. I agree that taking

Fluconazole

> with vifend is not a good idea...Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non

systemic

> AF's would help immensely ..Systemics do not treat gut based

infection very

> well as the gut is poorly supplied with blood vessels. Vifend is

one of the

> big guns , but it's not dramatically better than existing

drugs ...I know

> one lady who spent £5,000 on the drug for no long term benefits ..

This is

> where the argument comes in for eradicating pathogenic flora &

repopulating

> with known colonising LAB probiotics , that is faecal

probiotics .In short I

> don't think your solution is exclusively in drugs ...Hope this

helps ..

>

> Vifend [Voriconazole] Is one step beyond Fluconazole if you like,

it has an

> extra molecule if I remember ..Its one of the latest Antifungals,

Mercks

> canidas is another .The best is considered Micafungin [FK 463]

Although the

> last two are at the moment IV only....see the site below click

the drop

> down menu for more Antifungal drugs

>

> http://www.doctorfungus.org/thedrugs/voriconazole.htm

> [infections] Question for J. (or

fungally

> interested bystanders)

>

>

> Hey ,

>

> Well, after running low on diflucan, which seems to have lost

some

> of its effectiveness anyway, I've developed a fungal overgrowth

of

> sorts. It's mainly invisible bumps on my arms and legs as well as

> itching in my armpits and chest area (which gets quite annoying).

> You can't see it, but I'm positive it's fungal, yeast, candida

etc.,

> because the anti-fungals make that go away.

>

> Yesterday, my doc gave me a new anti-fungal called Vfend which

some

> people are raving about. It seems to be helping already. But I

have

> a couple of questions.

>

> 1. What do you think of this drug?

>

> 2. What do you think about taking it WITH Diflucan. My doc is

very

> opposed to the idea of taking 2 antifungals at once, but

personally,

> I want to nip this thing in the bud. The penicillin has been

helping

> me tremendously, but I don't like this sudden fungus thingy

> happening, and don't want my gut to get all messed up, so any

> insights you can share would be most appreciated.

>

> thanks,

>

> penny

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

or whoever,

I think I am going to have to start addressing fungal issues if I'm

going to remain on Ketek and Tini. After three months of that I seem to

be possibly up in the air again as far as doctor help goes, so I am

trying to figure out what I want first and then go from there.

So can you clue me in to how these antifungals are used? I admit to not

paying as much attention as I should have been. It's because I never

had the problem before.

Nystatin can be taken orally or vaginally? If I only have symptoms of

the latter, should I assume I have gut problems too, but just not

enough to notice? If this is not a systemic drug, it has to be applied

to both locations? Is Nystatin best to start with or should I be

looking into amph B, about which I understand even less? Seems to come

as liquid?

Also, what are the best doses, not necessarily the doctor recommended

ones?

I solemnly swear that I am taking responsibility for my own health and

will do further research and consult with appropriate health

professionals and not just take advice obtained over the internet etc.

etc. etc.

As far as my progress goes, I am still achy but not in terrible pain

anymore. My energy is better since the Ketek and TIni and I am able to

get out of the house and teach a course at the local university. Wow,

real life! I still have a long way to go though.

- Kate D.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 06:20 PM, Jaep wrote:

> remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria from the gut was

> traced to the vagina...

> ...Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non systemic AF's would help immensely

> ..Systemics do not treat gut based infection very well as the gut is

> poorly supplied with blood vessels.

[Guest guest]

or whoever,I think I am going to have to start addressing fungal issues if I'm going to remain on Ketek and Tini. After three months of that I seem to be possibly up in the air again as far as doctor help goes, so I am trying to figure out what I want first and then go from there.So can you clue me in to how these antifungals are used? I admit to not paying as much attention as I should have been. It's because I never had the problem before. Nystatin can be taken orally or vaginally? If I only have symptoms of the latter, should I assume I have gut problems too, but just not enough to notice? If this is not a systemic drug, it has to be applied to both locations? Is Nystatin best to start with or should I be looking into amph B, about which I understand even less? Seems to come as liquid?Also, what are the best doses, not necessarily the doctor recommended ones?I solemnly swear that I am taking responsibility for my own health and will do further research and consult with appropriate health professionals and not just take advice obtained over the internet etc. etc. etc.As far as my progress goes, I am still achy but not in terrible pain anymore. My energy is better since the Ketek and TIni and I am able to get out of the house and teach a course at the local university. Wow, real life! I still have a long way to go though.- Kate D.

Hi Kate , Antifungals are used long term is the answer to your first question I think.. Nysatin is used both as a topical and or\ally to treat gut based infection ..It’s not considered a systemic drug..I think there’s enough evidence to say that a fugal gut infection is very probable if not a certainty when considering the bacterial abx’s we take . Reoccurring vaginal thrush is a symptom of a wider deeper based infection .. Dr Cranton uses triple therapy to bring yeast under control ..don’t know about Amph B but up to 8,million units if Nyststin if I recall thats 16 tabs a day ..together with the max dose of Fluconazole at 200mg per day although that’s not the optimum dose for systemic infections . A dose between 400 & 800 mg is considered what’s needed now ..I would very much relate to that dose…

You may consider using duel drugs that is drugs that address both fungal & bacterial pathogens ..Fluconazole is one such drug ..or at least it is effective against Borrelia & fungi Taking both bacterial & fungal abx’s is not considered good practice … I’ll post below some useful info get back to me if I’ve missed anything or you need more info ..

Dr. Truss, author of The Missing Diagnosis, is an internist in Birmingham, Alabama. He has had more than 20 years of clinical experience with over 3,000 candida patients. He is convinced that yeast is implicated in a wide variety of human ills, from depression and hormonal disturbances to allergic reactions and auto-immune diseases. Chronic yeast infections, he believes, may be a causative factor in diseases such as multiple sclerosis, Crohn's disease, schizophrenia, myasthenia gravis and lupus.

Article by Dr Truss… In 1953 Dr Orian Truss discovered the devastating effects of antibiotics in Alabama (USA)

Lack of energy and digestive disturbances, arthritic joint pains, skin disease, menstrual problems, emotional instability and depression. All symptoms of what I call the 'antibiotic syndrome' which have greatly increased in frequency in recent years.

On further examination, more symptoms may be discovered. Most of the gastro-intestinal tract is tender when pressed, especially the small intestine, liver and gall bladder. There may even have been a gall bladder operation that failed to improve the condition, sometimes even worsening the symptoms.

There could be a history of thrush or oral, anal or vaginal itching. When these are present the diagnosis of Candida is obvious but it may also be present in the absence of these manifestations and that can be somewhat confusing. The yeast or fungus Candida albicans, of course, thrives during antibiotic treatment. I regard it as reckless negligence to prescribe antibiotics without simultaneous fungicides and replacement therapy with lactobacilli afterwards. I believe that this practice has greatly added to our vast pool of a chronically sick population.

However, the 'antibiotic syndrome' is not just due to Candida. I regard it more generally as a 'dysbiosis' where the wrong kind of microbes inhabit the intestinal tract, not just Candida and other fungi, but many types of pathogenic bacteria including coli bacteria which are normal in the colon but become disease-forming when they ascend into the small intestine.

If the problem has existed for years, there is usually a lack of gastric acid which then allows the stomach to be colonised by microbes, causing inflammation with pain and later, ulcers. The toxins released by the microbial overpopulation cause in addition chronic inflammation of the liver, gall bladder, pancreas and intestines. I regard it as rather likely that a chronic inflammation of the pancreas is a major contributing factor in the development of insulin-dependent diabetes.

Bacterial attack

Specific types of pathogenic bacteria appear to cause or contribute to specific auto-immune diseases. One variety of coli bacteria, for instance, produces a molecule that is very similar to insulin. When the immune system becomes activated against this molecule it may then also attack related features at the beta cells of the pancreas

Another type of bacteria, Yersinia enterocolitica, induces an immune response that attacks the thyroid gland and leads to Grave's disease with a serious overproduction of thyroid hormones.

Ulcerative colitis is linked to overgrowth with pathogenic microbes, the same as Crohn's disease, osteoporosis and ankylosing spondylitis. In ankylosing spondylitis the vertebra of the spine fuse together causing stiffness and pain. Other joints may in time become affected.

Klebsiella, another type of pathogenic bacteria, produces a molecule that is similar to a tissue type found in people with this disease. When klebsiella numbers in the gut decrease, related antibodies in the blood decrease and the condition improves.

Rheumatoid arthritis is linked to other bacteria, called proteus. Proteus is also a common cause of urinary tract infections. Women suffer urinary tract infections as well as rheumatoid arthritis twice as often as men, while men usually have higher levels of klebsiella and three times more ankylosing spondylitis than women.

In addition microbial overgrowth dam ages the intestinal wall so that only partly digested food particles can pass into the bloodstream, causing allergies. In this way all auto-immune diseases can be linked to food allergies.

While rheumatoid arthritis is a frequent feature of the antibiotic syndrome, and I regard it as relatively easy to cure, not many sufferers of this disease seem to be interested in this natural approach. The other day a young man with severe rheumatoid arthritis knocked at my door to collect money for a medically sponsored walkathon. When I told him that I do not give money for drug treatment as it can be overcome with natural therapies, he shouted: 'You are mad!' and left visibly upset.

Other auto-immune diseases that have so far been linked to dysbiosis are psoriasis, lupus erythematosus and pancreatitis. When remedies are given that bind bacterial endotoxins, these conditions usually improve. A further consequence of dysbiosis is susceptibility to food poisoning as with salmonella bacteria, while a healthy intestinal flora prevents these from multiplying and causing trouble.

Staphylococcus aureus or golden staph cause serious infections in hospital patients. It has been found that not only golden staph but also other infections are greatly potentised when they occur with a Candida overgrowth. As Candida overgrowth is a natural outcome of the standard hospital treatment, it is easy to see why golden staph is so deadly in hospitals.

A similar picture emerges with AIDS. People do not die from the AIDS virus but from Candida-potentised bacterial infections. I also see the antibiotic-induced dysbiosis in babies and infants as the main cause of their frequent infections, glue ear and greatly contributing to cot death.

While it used to be uncommon for children to have more than one or two infections a year, now more than six is the norm.

In the 1940's Candida was found in only three per cent of autopsies, now the figure is nearer thirty per cent. There are, of course, other factors that can cause dysbiosis - the contraceptive pill, steroids and other drugs, radiation treatment and chemotherapy - but the main culprit is, without doubt, antibiotics.

Closely related to Candida are the mycoplasms or pleomorphic organisms. These have been shown to be a main factor in the causation of cancer. Therefore, antifungal therapy has also major benefits in cancer treatment.

Dr Orian Truss

Dr Cranton paper

http://drcranton.com/CFIDS.htm#CFIDS%20Paper

Clinical effects of fluconazole in patients with neuroborreliosis.Schardt FW.Betriebsarztliche Untersuchungsstelle, Bayerische Julius-Maximilians-Universitat, Wurzburg, Germany. Fritz.Schardt@m...Eleven patients with neuro-borreliosis had been treated with 200 mgfluconazole daily for 25 days after an unsuccessful therapy withantibiotics. At the end of treatment eight patients had noborreliosis symptoms and remained free of relapse in a follow-upexamination one year later. In the remaining four patients, symptomswere considerably improved. At the end of therapy immune reactivity(IgM+) disappeared in three patients. Since borrelia spp. are almostexclusively localised intracellular, they may depend on certainmetabolites of their eucaryotic host cell. Inhibition of P450 andother cytochromes by fluconazole may incapacitate Borrelia uponlongterm exposure.PMID: 15337633 [PubMed - in process]

Looking at the synergy to be gained from using various drug combos , I found some very enlightening extracts quoting azithromycin combos …They highlight the Antifungal properties of the drug …It could explain the unexpected reactions to the drug….

The second extract found Azithromycin demonstrated no activity against Fusarium when tested alone but when combined with amphotericin B the killing power of the combo increased dramatically.

The last extract explores the Antifungal effects of what is considered non Antifungal drugs …The message is clear … tap into the enhanced killing power and broader spectrum of combination drug treatment. .

·

·

·

·

· Expert Opin Pharmacother. 2002 Nov;3(11):1541-2.

Babesiosis in humans: a treatment review.Weiss LM.Division of Infectious Diseases, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, 1300 Park Avenue, Room 504 Forchheimer Building, Bronx, New York, 10461, USA. lmweiss@...Human infections with Babesia species, in particular Babesia microti, are tick-borne illnesses that are being recognised with increased frequency. Coinfection with ehrlichiosis and Lyme disease is also being recognised as an important feature of these tick-borne illnesses. Despite the superficial resemblance of Babesia to malaria, these piroplasms do not respond to chloroquine or other similar drugs. However, the treatment of babesiosis using a clindamycin-quinine combination has been successful. Data in animal models and case-reports in humans have suggested that an atovaquone-azithromycin combination is also effective. This was confirmed in a recent prospective, open, randomised trial of clindamycin-quinine versus azithromycin-atovaquone. This paper reviews the literature on the treatment of human babesiosis and the animal models of these human pathogens.Publication Types:

· Review

· Review, Academic

PMID: 12150690 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Antimicrob Chemother. 1998 Jan;41(1):127-30.

Related Articles,

Links

The combination of amphotericin B and azithromycin as a potential new therapeutic approach to fusariosis.Clancy CJ, Nguyen MH.Department of Medicine, University of Florida College of Medicine, Gainesville 32610, USA.We investigated the interaction between amphotericin B and azithromycin in vitro against 26 clinical isolates of Fusarium. Synergy was demonstrated in all isolates. Amphotericin B MICs were reduced from a mean of 1 mg/L when tested alone to a mean of 0.37 mg/L when tested in combination with azithromycin. Azithromycin demonstrated no activity against Fusarium when tested alone (MIC > 128 mg/L). When combined with amphotericin B the mean MIC was reduced to 5.5 mg/L, a level readily achieved in tissue. Given the resistance of Fusarium to conventional therapy, the in-vitro synergy between amphotericin B and azithromycin might prove to be important in therapy for fusariosis.PMID: 9511049 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Article

European Journal of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases

Publisher: Springer-Verlag Heidelberg

ISSN: 0934-9723 (Paper) 1435-4373 (Online)

DOI: 10.1007/s10096-003-0947-x

Issue: Volume 22, Number 7

Date: July 2003

Pages: 397 - 407

Review

Antifungal Activity of Nonantifungal Drugs

J. Afeltra1, 2 and P. E. Verweij1, 2

(1)

Department of Medical Microbiology, University Medical Center Nijmegen, PO Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands

(2)

Nijmegen University Center for Infectious Diseases, Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Published online: 26 June 2003

Abstract The antifungal activity of synthetic, nonchemotherapeutic compounds, antineoplastic agents and antibacterial drugs, such as sulphonamides, has been known since the early 20th century (1932). In this context, the term "nonantifungal" is taken to include a variety of compounds that are employed in the management of pathological conditions of nonfungal infectious etiology but have been shown to exhibit broad-spectrum antifungal activity. In this review, the antifungal properties of compounds such as chlorpromazine, proton pump inhibitors, antiarrhythmic agents, cholesterol-lowering agents, antineoplastic and immunosuppressive agents, antiparasitic drugs and antibiotics are described. Since fungi are eukaryotic cells, they share many pathways with human cells, thus increasing the probability of antifungal activity of "nonfungal drugs". The potential of these drugs for treatment of fungal infections has been investigated sporadically using the drugs alone or in combination with "classic" antifungal agents. A review of the literature, supplemented with a number of more recent investigations, suggests that some of these compounds enhance the activity of conventional antifungal agents, eliminate natural resistance to specific antifungal drugs (reversal of resistance) or exhibit strong activity against certain fungal strains in vitro and in animal models. The role of these agents in the epidemiology and in the clinical manifestations of fungal infections and the potential of certain drugs for treatment of invasive fungal infections require further investigation.

P. E. VerweijEmail: p.verweij@...Phone: +31-24-3614356Fax: +31-24-3540216

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http://tinyurl.com/4xr3k

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~alanburr/physiol/webcc99/cccase3.99.htm

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of KateSent: 08 October 2005 17:49infections Subject: Re: [infections] Question for J. (or fungally interested bystanders) or whoever,I think I am going to have to start addressing fungal issues if I'm going to remain on Ketek and Tini. After three months of that I seem to be possibly up in the air again as far as doctor help goes, so I am trying to figure out what I want first and then go from there.So can you clue me in to how these antifungals are used? I admit to not paying as much attention as I should have been. It's because I never had the problem before. Nystatin can be taken orally or vaginally? If I only have symptoms of the latter, should I assume I have gut problems too, but just not enough to notice? If this is not a systemic drug, it has to be applied to both locations? Is Nystatin best to start with or should I be looking into amph B, about which I understand even less? Seems to come as liquid?Also, what are the best doses, not necessarily the doctor recommended ones?I solemnly swear that I am taking responsibility for my own health and will do further research and consult with appropriate health professionals and not just take advice obtained over the internet etc. etc. etc.As far as my progress goes, I am still achy but not in terrible pain anymore. My energy is better since the Ketek and TIni and I am able to get out of the house and teach a course at the local university. Wow, real life! I still have a long way to go though.- Kate D.On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 06:20 PM, Jaep wrote:

remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria from the gut was traced to the vagina......Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non systemic AF's would help immensely ..Systemics do not treat gut based infection very well as the gut is poorly supplied with blood vessels.

[Guest guest]

, I wouldn't make the assumption that fluconazole has been proven

to kill borrelia, or inhibit it, or other bacteria. That is Schardt's

opinion and he may be right but the response from lymies here seems

mixed. ALso, Schardt does recommend antibacterial (penicillins) and

antifungals (fluconazole)--just alternating them.

>

> Hi Kate , Antifungals are used long term is the answer to your first

> question I think.. Nysatin is used both as a topical and or\ally

to treat

> gut based infection ..It's not considered a systemic drug..I think

there's

> enough evidence to say that a fugal gut infection is very probable

if not a

> certainty when considering the bacterial abx's we take .

Reoccurring vaginal

> thrush is a symptom of a wider deeper based infection .. Dr Cranton

uses

> triple therapy to bring yeast under control ..don't know about Amph

B but up

> to 8,million units if Nyststin if I recall thats 16 tabs a

day ..together

> with the max dose of Fluconazole at 200mg per day although that's

not the

> optimum dose for systemic infections . A dose between 400 & 800 mg

is

> considered what's needed now ..I would very much relate to that

dose…

>

> You may consider using duel drugs that is drugs that address both

fungal &

> bacterial pathogens ..Fluconazole is one such drug ..or at least it

is

> effective against Borrelia & fungi Taking both bacterial & fungal

abx's is

> not considered good practice … I'll post below some useful info

get back

> to me if I've missed anything or you need more info ..

>

>

>

> Dr. Truss, author of The Missing Diagnosis, is an internist in

Birmingham,

> Alabama. He has had more than 20 years of clinical experience with

over

> 3,000 candida patients. He is convinced that yeast is implicated in

a wide

> variety of human ills, from depression and hormonal disturbances to

allergic

> reactions and auto-immune diseases. Chronic yeast infections, he

believes,

> may be a causative factor in diseases such as multiple sclerosis,

Crohn's

> disease, schizophrenia, myasthenia gravis and lupus.

>

> Article by Dr Truss… In 1953 Dr Orian Truss discovered the

devastating

> effects of antibiotics in Alabama (USA)

>

> Lack of energy and digestive disturbances, arthritic joint pains,

skin

> disease, menstrual problems, emotional instability and depression.

All

> symptoms of what I call the 'antibiotic syndrome' which have greatly

> increased in frequency in recent years.

>

> On further examination, more symptoms may be discovered. Most of the

> gastro-intestinal tract is tender when pressed, especially the small

> intestine, liver and gall bladder. There may even have been a gall

bladder

> operation that failed to improve the condition, sometimes even

worsening the

> symptoms.

>

> There could be a history of thrush or oral, anal or vaginal

itching. When

> these are present the diagnosis of Candida is obvious but it may

also be

> present in the absence of these manifestations and that can be

somewhat

> confusing. The yeast or fungus Candida albicans, of course, thrives

during

> antibiotic treatment. I regard it as reckless negligence to

prescribe

> antibiotics without simultaneous fungicides and replacement therapy

with

> lactobacilli afterwards. I believe that this practice has greatly

added to

> our vast pool of a chronically sick population.

>

> However, the 'antibiotic syndrome' is not just due to Candida. I

regard it

> more generally as a 'dysbiosis' where the wrong kind of microbes

inhabit the

> intestinal tract, not just Candida and other fungi, but many types

of

> pathogenic bacteria including coli bacteria which are normal in the

colon

> but become disease-forming when they ascend into the small

intestine.

>

> If the problem has existed for years, there is usually a lack of

gastric

> acid which then allows the stomach to be colonised by microbes,

causing

> inflammation with pain and later, ulcers. The toxins released by the

> microbial overpopulation cause in addition chronic inflammation of

the

> liver, gall bladder, pancreas and intestines. I regard it as rather

likely

> that a chronic inflammation of the pancreas is a major contributing

factor

> in the development of insulin-dependent diabetes.

>

> Bacterial attack

>

> Specific types of pathogenic bacteria appear to cause or contribute

to

> specific auto-immune diseases. One variety of coli bacteria, for

instance,

> produces a molecule that is very similar to insulin. When the

immune system

> becomes activated against this molecule it may then also attack

related

> features at the beta cells of the pancreas

>

> Another type of bacteria, Yersinia enterocolitica, induces an immune

> response that attacks the thyroid gland and leads to Grave's

disease with a

> serious overproduction of thyroid hormones.

>

> Ulcerative colitis is linked to overgrowth with pathogenic

microbes, the

> same as Crohn's disease, osteoporosis and ankylosing spondylitis. In

> ankylosing spondylitis the vertebra of the spine fuse together

causing

> stiffness and pain. Other joints may in time become affected.

>

> Klebsiella, another type of pathogenic bacteria, produces a

molecule that is

> similar to a tissue type found in people with this disease. When

klebsiella

> numbers in the gut decrease, related antibodies in the blood

decrease and

> the condition improves.

>

> Rheumatoid arthritis is linked to other bacteria, called proteus.

Proteus is

> also a common cause of urinary tract infections. Women suffer

urinary tract

> infections as well as rheumatoid arthritis twice as often as men,

while men

> usually have higher levels of klebsiella and three times more

ankylosing

> spondylitis than women.

>

> In addition microbial overgrowth dam ages the intestinal wall so

that only

> partly digested food particles can pass into the bloodstream,

causing

> allergies. In this way all auto-immune diseases can be linked to

food

> allergies.

>

> While rheumatoid arthritis is a frequent feature of the antibiotic

syndrome,

> and I regard it as relatively easy to cure, not many sufferers of

this

> disease seem to be interested in this natural approach. The other

day a

> young man with severe rheumatoid arthritis knocked at my door to

collect

> money for a medically sponsored walkathon. When I told him that I

do not

> give money for drug treatment as it can be overcome with natural

therapies,

> he shouted: 'You are mad!' and left visibly upset.

>

> Other auto-immune diseases that have so far been linked to

dysbiosis are

> psoriasis, lupus erythematosus and pancreatitis. When remedies are

given

> that bind bacterial endotoxins, these conditions usually improve. A

further

> consequence of dysbiosis is susceptibility to food poisoning as with

> salmonella bacteria, while a healthy intestinal flora prevents

these from

> multiplying and causing trouble.

>

> Staphylococcus aureus or golden staph cause serious infections in

hospital

> patients. It has been found that not only golden staph but also

other

> infections are greatly potentised when they occur with a Candida

overgrowth.

> As Candida overgrowth is a natural outcome of the standard hospital

> treatment, it is easy to see why golden staph is so deadly in

hospitals.

>

> A similar picture emerges with AIDS. People do not die from the

AIDS virus

> but from Candida-potentised bacterial infections. I also see the

> antibiotic-induced dysbiosis in babies and infants as the main

cause of

> their frequent infections, glue ear and greatly contributing to cot

death.

>

> While it used to be uncommon for children to have more than one or

two

> infections a year, now more than six is the norm.

>

> In the 1940's Candida was found in only three per cent of

autopsies, now the

> figure is nearer thirty per cent. There are, of course, other

factors that

> can cause dysbiosis - the contraceptive pill, steroids and other

drugs,

> radiation treatment and chemotherapy - but the main culprit is,

without

> doubt, antibiotics.

>

> Closely related to Candida are the mycoplasms or pleomorphic

organisms.

> These have been shown to be a main factor in the causation of

cancer.

> Therefore, antifungal therapy has also major benefits in cancer

treatment.

>

> Dr Orian Truss

>

>

>

> Dr Cranton paper

>

> http://drcranton.com/CFIDS.htm#CFIDS%20Paper

>

>

>

> Clinical effects of fluconazole in patients with neuroborreliosis.

>

> Schardt FW.

>

> Betriebsarztliche Untersuchungsstelle, Bayerische Julius-

Maximilians-

> Universitat, Wurzburg, Germany. Fritz.Schardt@m...

>

> Eleven patients with neuro-borreliosis had been treated with 200 mg

> fluconazole daily for 25 days after an unsuccessful therapy with

> antibiotics. At the end of treatment eight patients had no

> borreliosis symptoms and remained free of relapse in a follow-up

> examination one year later. In the remaining four patients, symptoms

> were considerably improved. At the end of therapy immune reactivity

> (IgM+) disappeared in three patients. Since borrelia spp. are almost

> exclusively localised intracellular, they may depend on certain

> metabolites of their eucaryotic host cell. Inhibition of P450 and

> other cytochromes by fluconazole may incapacitate Borrelia upon

> longterm exposure.

>

> PMID: 15337633 [PubMed - in process]

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking at the synergy to be gained from using various drug

combos , I found

> some very enlightening extracts quoting azithromycin combos …They

highlight

> the Antifungal properties of the drug …It could explain the

unexpected

> reactions to the drug….

>

> The second extract found Azithromycin demonstrated no activity

against

> Fusarium when tested alone but when combined with amphotericin B

the killing

> power of the combo increased dramatically.

>

> The last extract explores the Antifungal effects of what is

considered non

> Antifungal drugs …The message is clear … tap into the enhanced

killing power

> and broader spectrum of combination drug treatment. .

>

>

>

>

>

> ·

>

> ·

>

> ·

>

> ·

>

> · Expert Opin Pharmacother. 2002 Nov;3(11):1541-2.

>

>

> Babesiosis in humans: a treatment review.

>

> Weiss LM.

>

> Division of Infectious Diseases, Albert Einstein College of

Medicine, 1300

> Park Avenue, Room 504 Forchheimer Building, Bronx, New York,

10461,

> USA. lmweiss@a...

>

> Human infections with Babesia species, in particular Babesia

microti, are

> tick-borne illnesses that are being recognised with increased

frequency.

> Coinfection with ehrlichiosis and Lyme disease is also being

recognised as

> an important feature of these tick-borne illnesses. Despite the

superficial

> resemblance of Babesia to malaria, these piroplasms do not respond

to

> chloroquine or other similar drugs. However, the treatment of

babesiosis

> using a clindamycin-quinine combination has been successful. Data

in animal

> models and case-reports in humans have suggested that an

> atovaquone-azithromycin combination is also effective. This was

confirmed in

> a recent prospective, open, randomised trial of clindamycin-quinine

versus

> azithromycin-atovaquone. This paper reviews the literature on the

treatment

> of human babesiosis and the animal models of these human pathogens.

>

> Publication Types:

>

> · Review

>

> · Review, Academic

>

>

> PMID: 12150690 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

>

>

>

>

> J Antimicrob Chemother. 1998 Jan;41(1):127-30.

> Related Articles, Links

>

>

>

> The combination of amphotericin B and azithromycin as a potential

new

> therapeutic approach to fusariosis.

>

> Clancy CJ, Nguyen MH.

>

> Department of Medicine, University of Florida College of Medicine,

> Gainesville 32610, USA.

>

> We investigated the interaction between amphotericin B and

azithromycin in

> vitro against 26 clinical isolates of Fusarium. Synergy was

demonstrated in

> all isolates. Amphotericin B MICs were reduced from a mean of 1

mg/L when

> tested alone to a mean of 0.37 mg/L when tested in combination with

> azithromycin. Azithromycin demonstrated no activity against

Fusarium when

> tested alone (MIC > 128 mg/L). When combined with amphotericin B

the mean

> MIC was reduced to 5.5 mg/L, a level readily achieved in tissue.

Given the

> resistance of Fusarium to conventional therapy, the in-vitro

synergy between

> amphotericin B and azithromycin might prove to be important in

therapy for

> fusariosis.

>

> PMID: 9511049 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Article

>

>

>

>

>

>

> European Journal of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious

Diseases

>

> Publisher: Springer-Verlag Heidelberg

>

> ISSN: 0934-9723 (Paper) 1435-4373 (Online)

>

> DOI: 10.1007/s10096-003-0947-x

>

> Issue: Volume 22, Number 7

>

> Date: July 2003

>

> Pages: 397 - 407

>

>

>

>

> Review

> Antifungal Activity of Nonantifungal Drugs

>

> J. Afeltra1, 2 and P. E. Verweij1, 2

>

> (1)

> Department of Medical Microbiology, University

Medical

> Center Nijmegen, PO Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands

>

>

>

>

> (2)

> Nijmegen University Center for Infectious Diseases,

> Nijmegen, The Netherlands

>

>

> Published online: 26 June 2003

>

> Abstract The antifungal activity of synthetic,

> nonchemotherapeutic compounds, antineoplastic agents and

antibacterial

> drugs, such as sulphonamides, has been known since the early 20th

century

> (1932). In this context, the term " nonantifungal " is taken to

include a

> variety of compounds that are employed in the management of

pathological

> conditions of nonfungal infectious etiology but have been shown to

exhibit

> broad-spectrum antifungal activity. In this review, the antifungal

> properties of compounds such as chlorpromazine, proton pump

inhibitors,

> antiarrhythmic agents, cholesterol-lowering agents, antineoplastic

and

> immunosuppressive agents, antiparasitic drugs and antibiotics are

described.

> Since fungi are eukaryotic cells, they share many pathways with

human cells,

> thus increasing the probability of antifungal activity

of " nonfungal drugs " .

> The potential of these drugs for treatment of fungal infections has

been

> investigated sporadically using the drugs alone or in combination

with

> " classic " antifungal agents. A review of the literature,

supplemented with a

> number of more recent investigations, suggests that some of these

compounds

> enhance the activity of conventional antifungal agents, eliminate

natural

> resistance to specific antifungal drugs (reversal of resistance) or

exhibit

> strong activity against certain fungal strains in vitro and in

animal

> models. The role of these agents in the epidemiology and in the

clinical

> manifestations of fungal infections and the potential of certain

drugs for

> treatment of invasive fungal infections require further

investigation.

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> P. E. Verweij

> Email: p.verweij@m...

> Phone: +31-24-3614356

> Fax: +31-24-3540216

>

>

> The references of this article are secured to

subscribers.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

> http://ist-

socrates.berkeley.edu/~alanburr/physiol/webcc99/cccase3.99.htm

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: [infections] Question for J. (or

fungally

> interested bystanders)

>

>

> or whoever,

>

> I think I am going to have to start addressing fungal issues if

I'm going

> to remain on Ketek and Tini. After three months of that I seem to be

> possibly up in the air again as far as doctor help goes, so I am

trying to

> figure out what I want first and then go from there.

>

> So can you clue me in to how these antifungals are used? I admit

to not

> paying as much attention as I should have been. It's because I

never had the

> problem before.

> Nystatin can be taken orally or vaginally? If I only have

symptoms of the

> latter, should I assume I have gut problems too, but just not

enough to

> notice? If this is not a systemic drug, it has to be applied to both

> locations? Is Nystatin best to start with or should I be looking

into amph

> B, about which I understand even less? Seems to come as liquid?

>

> Also, what are the best doses, not necessarily the doctor

recommended

> ones?

>

> I solemnly swear that I am taking responsibility for my own

health and

> will do further research and consult with appropriate health

professionals

> and not just take advice obtained over the internet etc. etc. etc.

>

> As far as my progress goes, I am still achy but not in terrible

pain

> anymore. My energy is better since the Ketek and TIni and I am able

to get

> out of the house and teach a course at the local university. Wow,

real life!

> I still have a long way to go though.

>

> - Kate D.

>

> On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 06:20 PM, Jaep wrote:

>

>

> remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria from the

gut was

> traced to the vagina...

> ...Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non systemic AF's would help

immensely

> ..Systemics do not treat gut based infection very well as the gut

is poorly

> supplied with blood vessels.

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date:

07/10/2005

>

[Guest guest]

Love the dosages for the antifungals. I think this is getting

realistic about tackling infections properly. Actually that's the

first I heard anyone say triple antifungal therapy anywhere. I

actually don't know anyone that has recommended 8 million units of

nystatin either. My best for the day was 25 million.loved that drug.

> >

> >

> > remember the translocation of bacteria where bacteria from

the

> gut was

> > traced to the vagina...

> > ...Taking Nysatin or Amph B as non systemic AF's would help

> immensely

> > ..Systemics do not treat gut based infection very well as the

gut

> is poorly

> > supplied with blood vessels.

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date:

> 07/10/2005

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You might want to read Cranton's anti-candida triple therapy paper,

which focuses on GI and systemic administration. If its not on the web

anymore I can email it. Personally I read it with a grain of Schardt

re fluconazole; I also notice it contains anecdotal data rather than

formal data on the outcomes of the regime.

For me tini is a big offender re amping up the yeast on my tongue,

contra the hopes expressed at the end of the Brorson tini paper. But

it also seems to be harming my enemy #1 which I assume to be bacterium

X.

All thru my year of abx, I am seeing some really discommoding

fungitudeinousness in the south polar latitudes anytime I wear pants

or underwear which are not 100% cotton. I think most long underwear

comprises synth fibers in part so I am gonna have to buy some all-

cotton ones when it gets cold.

In all cases above, my microbe was self-ID'd as yeast by its scent of

unbaked bread dough. I am assuming that is probably a good criterion.

[Guest guest]

Kate

The good thing was that it really didn't turn easily. I just

monitored it's antibacterial properties and noticed that after using

it initially and feeling great then stopping- thinking I did enough-

my second round with the drug was positive, but after a long while

without a gameplan it just doesn't cut it anymore. Although I will

still notice benefits from it's ability in the sinus to keep

pseudonomas at bay.

Your mission should be focused on the head, sinus, getting it

sterilised whatever it takes.Remember ME is encephalitis and the

encephalitis is 'very tender head' which is full of infection- the

sinus- meninges- and half the front of the face often are focal

points of infection that generate all the sytemic ill health.So

regardless of the drug make sure your doing enough of everything to

keep this getting better and the drug and it's use won't be up in

the air only scrapping the surface of the problem.

>

> >

> > Love the dosages for the antifungals. I think this is getting

> > realistic about tackling infections properly. Actually that's the

> > first I heard anyone say triple antifungal therapy anywhere. I

> > actually don't know anyone that has recommended  8 million units

of

> > nystatin either. My best for the day was 25 million.loved that

drug.

>

> So Tony, if i remember correctly, Nystatin doesn't help you

anymore?

> How do I avoid this? By taking it with other drugs? By taking

large

> doses and then going on to something else? Or is it just

inevitable

> that I am going to go down the path that others have talked about

where

> something helps at first and then doesn't and the # of helpful

drugs

> gets smaller as one progresses?

>

> - Kate

>

[Guest guest]

In all cases above, my microbe was self-ID'd as yeast by its scent of

unbaked bread dough. I am assuming that is probably a good criterion.

A fruity smell is pseudonomas.

>

> You might want to read Cranton's anti-candida triple therapy

paper,

> which focuses on GI and systemic administration. If its not on the

web

> anymore I can email it. Personally I read it with a grain of

Schardt

> re fluconazole; I also notice it contains anecdotal data rather

than

> formal data on the outcomes of the regime.

>

> For me tini is a big offender re amping up the yeast on my tongue,

> contra the hopes expressed at the end of the Brorson tini paper.

But

> it also seems to be harming my enemy #1 which I assume to be

bacterium

> X.

>

> All thru my year of abx, I am seeing some really discommoding

> fungitudeinousness in the south polar latitudes anytime I wear

pants

> or underwear which are not 100% cotton. I think most long

underwear

> comprises synth fibers in part so I am gonna have to buy some all-

> cotton ones when it gets cold.

>

> In all cases above, my microbe was self-ID'd as yeast by its scent

of

> unbaked bread dough. I am assuming that is probably a good

criterion.

>

[Guest guest]

> > I read it with a grain of Schardt

>

> eh?

He of the fluconazole anti-Bb protocol. His findings make it harder

to interpret whats dying in Crantons patients when they take combos

which include fluc.

> > For me tini is a big offender re amping up the yeast on my tongue,

> > contra the hopes expressed at the end of the Brorson tini paper.

>

> Ahah. I thought maybe it was the Ketek, but interesting to know

that

> Tini could be guilty as well.

Zith was another bad one for me tho. But tini is prolly worse.

> > All thru my year of abx, I am seeing some really discommoding

> > fungitudeinousness in the south polar latitudes anytime I wear

pants

> > or underwear which are not 100% cotton. I think most long

underwear

> > comprises synth fibers in part so I am gonna have to buy some all-

> > cotton ones when it gets cold.

>

> That's a good way of putting it. Unfortunately, I am already a

cotton

> person and can't make that an improvement. Well, assuming a couple

of

> percent lycra in the long underwear is okay....

I dono... in the summer (pretty damn hot here in Charlottesville) I

thought I had a skin candida difference even with finer-weave pants

that are still 100% cotton. Ive got " crinkly " 100% cotton shirts that

really shed some water, I think my fine pants are like that. But they

are also just heavier than my other pants. Anyway I learned not to

wear em if I didnt want some ferocious itching.

Anyway, all thats basically concerning external skin.

> That sounds reasonable. My ID is based on the fact that the

irritation

> goes away with over-the-counter yeast treatment. Unfortunately it

comes

> back as long as I am taking the abx.

I guess the question is, persisters or new infection? If its

persisters, and they dont become resistant, they must be the non-

mutant, Kim kinda persisters that ride out the drugs via

torpor. Or perhaps mutants who are rapidly outcompeted by revertants

when the drug is withdrawn (revertants are mutants that mutate back

to the wild type.. and if a mutant cell replicates in 1 hours and a

wild type in 57 mintues, it adds up to a big difference before too

long).

C. albicans is definitely ubiquitous so it prolly also is plenty easy

to get reinfected.

Anyway you might want to dredge some colossal database like the

lymenet archives to see whats worked long-term for someone/anyone.

Mostly Ive just had yeast on the external skin but I did once have

the " burn " in my rear-aperture mucosa, yeoooooooooooooooowwwwwwww, so

I can see how this could be a big problem. I mean damn, it burns.

[Guest guest]

> Sounds good. That's all a bonus then to using it for fungus then. I

did

> read Cranton, as suggested. He says Nystatin works simply by

> coating the stomach, so it doesn't sound to me like that type of

action

> would stop being effective -- unless a fungal infection just got so

big

> that it overwhelmed it.

By that Cranton just means (I hope) that its affinity for the mucosa

helps get/stay concentrated where its needed. It does have a specific

molecular action against the yeast, which is membrane permeabilization

according to _Biochem. of Antimicrob. Action._

Having a specific action doesnt guaruntee that resistance occurs, but

I would guess it probably does.

[Guest guest]

> Having a specific action doesnt guaruntee that resistance occurs,

but

> I would guess it probably does.

I mean in the lab, at least. Maybe pubmed could tell you whether yeast

resistance is a clinical problem (for people not semi-permanently on

abx, anyway).

[Guest guest]

> Yah, I'm worried about mutants. Since it so thoroughly goes away

with

> local treatment though, I was thinking maybe it's just coming back

> because it's elsewhere in my body too.

As I recall its present at low levels in the lungs, so I think its

basically all over town.

> > Anyway you might want to dredge some colossal database like the

> > lymenet archives to see whats worked long-term for someone/anyone.

>

> I'll have to see if the search engine works for me now. It didn't in

> the past but maybe they fixed it?

Lymenet goes down sometimes, and the engine goes down often. Also they

dump out parts of the archives cause its so vast.

[Guest guest]

Kate

The experts all put a spin on this ilness- anyone ill with half a

brain can step back and say somethings not quite right guys.One of

many OBVIOUS PROBLEMS is the waxing and wanning and the fickleness

of being almost perfect one moment to being completely blown away

the next(age and ilness duration dependant).The stimulation aspects

of this disease discount over 90% of the science that is thrust upon

us.Often you have to take a step back and say yeah your right, but

your on third base I need to fix up what's happening at the starting

plate.

>

>

> On Sunday, October 9, 2005, at 09:46 PM, dumbaussie2000 wrote re

> NYSTATIN:

>

> > The good thing was that it really didn't turn easily. I just

> > monitored it's antibacterial properties and noticed that after

using

> > it initially and feeling great then stopping- thinking I did

enough-

> > my second round with the drug was positive, but after a long

while

> > without a gameplan it just doesn't cut it anymore. Although I

will

> > still notice benefits from it's ability in the sinus to keep

> > pseudonomas at bay.

>

> Sounds good. That's all a bonus then to using it for fungus then.

I did

> read Cranton, as suggested. He says Nystatin works simply by

> coating the stomach, so it doesn't sound to me like that type of

action

> would stop being effective -- unless a fungal infection just got

so big

> that it overwhelmed it.

>

> About the GAMEPLAN. Yah, I am trying to come up with one of those.

So

> far I like the Tini thing, although I'm not sure that using it

> continuously like I am is the best way to use it. I also like what

Barb

> did with HCQ. I don't know if I can keep paying for Ketek, or

whether

> it's doing its job. I'll just have to see.

>

> > Your mission should be focused on the head, sinus, getting it

> > sterilised  whatever it takes.

>

> Well, I'm one of those stubborn people that doesn't see any

obvious

> head symptoms and thinks I mainly have Lyme! Although I do suspect

at

> one point I accumulated something else because things deteriorated

five

> years into my undiagnosed, untreated illness (the condition my doc

told

> me probably would not get worse).

>

> > So

> > regardless of the drug make sure your doing enough of everything

to

> > keep this getting better and the drug and it's use won't be up in

> > the air only scrapping the surface of the problem.

>

> I'm definitely starting to see the merit of this approach.

>

> - Kate

>

[Guest guest]

A fruity smell is pseudomonas? Every time I take anti-fungals I have

a really strong fruity die-off smell for the first day or two (so

does our friend SB). And rifing with the anti-yeast program also

produces a fruity smell (unfortunately, the rife's not working -

needs some kind of password).

I've recently started v-fend and there's no fruity die-off smell,

which surprised me, but it's definitely working. The invisible bumps

and itchiness are disappearing and as a matter of fact a lot of

things seem to be kind of drying out??? Mainly, the seepage I

usually have around one particular tooth, seems pretty much not to

be there. Could be the penicillin, but I'm kinda thinking the v-fend

has something to do with drying things out? Maybe the fungus and

bacteria work synergistically and protect each other somehow?

>

> In all cases above, my microbe was self-ID'd as yeast by its scent

of

> unbaked bread dough. I am assuming that is probably a good

criterion.

>

> A fruity smell is pseudonomas.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I should edit that post to add that I've been dx'd with psuedomonas.

Tony, have you tried anti-fungals against psuedomonas?

I could send you a v-fend and a swab and see what happens?

penny

> >

> > In all cases above, my microbe was self-ID'd as yeast by its

scent

> of

> > unbaked bread dough. I am assuming that is probably a good

> criterion.

> >

> > A fruity smell is pseudonomas.

> >

> >

>