Re: Hi ...new here with my personal account of all this.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Interesting story. It was paxil and then elavil that messed me up. I've been to that actionlove website and read a lot of the stories. I respect Dr. Lin and think he's really smart. If I had access to his knowledge back before I went on the meds I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in today. The only problem is that while I think his theory is right on the money, I don't think you can fix everyone with the exact same formula. While I think "calming" the system with 5htp is a better idea than starting SSRI's in the first place I'm not so sure how much help it'll be once you're already burned out. He talks about calming the dopamine "fires" with 5htp to slow down the DA-NE-E conversion. This would have been a great plan for me when I still had a dopamine "fire." But what if the dopamine fire is already burned out? Adding a lot of 5htp isn't going to help much. In fact it may make you feel worse as it seems to do with me.

To his credit he has responded to most of my emails and seems to think that my sleep problems and dry eyes and mouth, etc. are primarily due to a severe lack of norepinephrine and acetylcholine. (Generally, I would think that if you're norepinephrine depleted than you're probably low in it's precursor dopamine also.) This has been backed up by various neurotransmitter tests that I've had over the past few years. So while I also may be suffering from a serotonin deficit I think it's more important to address the norepinephrine and acetylcholine deficits first. Otherwise, it's like pouring water on a fire that's already gone out. However, I have always had an over the top stress (fight or flight) reaction. This is where I think he is exactly right about using 5htp to calm this overreactive system down. Again, I wish I had him as a doctor 10 or 15 years ago instead of the pill pusher MDs that I ended up seeing.

[Guest guest]

To his credit he has responded to most of my emails and seems to

think that

> my sleep problems and dry eyes and mouth, etc. are primarily due

to a severe

> lack of norepinephrine and acetylcholine. (Generally, I would

think that if

> you're norepinephrine depleted than you're probably low in it's

precursor

> dopamine also.) This has been backed up by various

neurotransmitter tests that I've

> had over the past few years.

So, His theory that you are low on norephinephrine and acetylcholine

matched the neurotransmitter testing resulting that you are low on

norephinephrine and acetylcholine ?

>

> Hi,

>

> Interesting story. It was paxil and then elavil that messed me

up. I've

> been to that actionlove website and read a lot of the stories. I

respect Dr. Lin

> and think he's really smart. If I had access to his knowledge

back before I

> went on the meds I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in today. The

only

> problem is that while I think his theory is right on the money, I

don't think you

> can fix everyone with the exact same formula. While I

think " calming " the

> system with 5htp is a better idea than starting SSRI's in the

first place I'm not

> so sure how much help it'll be once you're already burned out. He

talks about

> calming the dopamine " fires " with 5htp to slow down the DA-NE-E

conversion.

> This would have been a great plan for me when I still had a

dopamine " fire. "

> But what if the dopamine fire is already burned out? Adding a lot

of 5htp

> isn't going to help much. In fact it may make you feel worse as

it seems to do

> with me.

>

> To his credit he has responded to most of my emails and seems to

think that

> my sleep problems and dry eyes and mouth, etc. are primarily due

to a severe

> lack of norepinephrine and acetylcholine. (Generally, I would

think that if

> you're norepinephrine depleted than you're probably low in it's

precursor

> dopamine also.) This has been backed up by various

neurotransmitter tests that I've

> had over the past few years. So while I also may be suffering

from a

> serotonin deficit I think it's more important to address the

norepinephrine and

> acetylcholine deficits first. Otherwise, it's like pouring water

on a fire that's

> already gone out. However, I have always had an over the top

stress (fight or

> flight) reaction. This is where I think he is exactly right about

using 5htp

> to calm this overreactive system down. Again, I wish I had him as

a doctor 10

> or 15 years ago instead of the pill pusher MDs that I ended up

seeing.

>

[Guest guest]

interesting, the first psychiatrist i saw said my sleep problems and anxiety

were due

to a lack of norepinephrine. of course, he wanted to put me on desipramine. no

thanks.

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Interesting story. It was paxil and then elavil that messed me

> up. I've

> > been to that actionlove website and read a lot of the stories. I

> respect Dr. Lin

> > and think he's really smart. If I had access to his knowledge

> back before I

> > went on the meds I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in today. The

> only

> > problem is that while I think his theory is right on the money, I

> don't think you

> > can fix everyone with the exact same formula. While I

> think " calming " the

> > system with 5htp is a better idea than starting SSRI's in the

> first place I'm not

> > so sure how much help it'll be once you're already burned out. He

> talks about

> > calming the dopamine " fires " with 5htp to slow down the DA-NE-E

> conversion.

> > This would have been a great plan for me when I still had a

> dopamine " fire. "

> > But what if the dopamine fire is already burned out? Adding a lot

> of 5htp

> > isn't going to help much. In fact it may make you feel worse as

> it seems to do

> > with me.

> >

> > To his credit he has responded to most of my emails and seems to

> think that

> > my sleep problems and dry eyes and mouth, etc. are primarily due

> to a severe

> > lack of norepinephrine and acetylcholine. (Generally, I would

> think that if

> > you're norepinephrine depleted than you're probably low in it's

> precursor

> > dopamine also.) This has been backed up by various

> neurotransmitter tests that I've

> > had over the past few years. So while I also may be suffering

> from a

> > serotonin deficit I think it's more important to address the

> norepinephrine and

> > acetylcholine deficits first. Otherwise, it's like pouring water

> on a fire that's

> > already gone out. However, I have always had an over the top

> stress (fight or

> > flight) reaction. This is where I think he is exactly right about

> using 5htp

> > to calm this overreactive system down. Again, I wish I had him as

> a doctor 10

> > or 15 years ago instead of the pill pusher MDs that I ended up

> seeing.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>So, His theory that you are low on norephinephrine and acetylcholine matched the neurotransmitter testing resulting that you are low on norephinephrine and acetylcholine ?

Well, I've had three different neurotransmitter tests done.

1. I had the a urine neurotransmitter test done by the NeuroScience company that's done by mail. This test showed low serotonin and high GABA and PEA and very high histamine. The chatecholamines were near normal ranges. No one seems to know what this means or even if this urine test is of any use.

2. I had a neurotransmitter blood test. This showed that I was severely low in norepinephrine, serotonin and acetylcholine. Dopamine was on the bottom of the normal reference range. In a lot of the abstracts they do use blood neurotransmitter levels to test the effectiveness medications. So this is probable a viable test, particularly in relation to the chatecholamines.

3. I had a QEEG "brain mapping" done. This is supposed to measure dopamine, serotonin, GABA and acetylcholine. This showed that I was severely depleted in dopamine, mildly depleted in serotonin. GABA and acetylcholine both fell in the normal range. From what I've read about this test it's most useful for measuring dopamine activity since dopamine since it's activity in the brain does seem to correspond to brain voltage which is measurable.

From my experience I have found that DLPA over time did help me a lot. I was taking it last spring with extra B6 and 1/2 grain of natural thyroid and I was jogging and getting as much sunshine as possible and I fell into the best sleep cycle I've had in a long time. Deep slack jawed drooling on my pillow sleep. As opposed to interrupted, dry eyes and mouth, poor quality sleep that is the norm for me. I'm trying to recreate what I did last spring. I'm taking 2000 to 3000mg of DLPA per day in 2 or 3 divided doses. I'm going to try adding in 50mg 5htp in the late afternoon/evening and some extra choline and lecithin also.

Dr. Lin does push 5htp and most of his products have griffonia seed (5htp) in them. It's all part of his plan to stop the DA-NE-E conversion. By doing this you preserve dopamine and avoid the pro-inflamatory "tissue burning" effects of having constantly elevated epinephrine levels in your blood stream. He feels that this is what causes a lot of peoples' pelvic, genitourinary and lower back pain. Problems that most clueless doctors just throw unnecessary antibiotics at. I've tried some of his products and they're pretty good. But I think in my case the DA/NE levels are already too depleted to think that just slowing the conversion reaction is going to rebuild them. I need to actively replenish them with high amounts of precursors. That's my theory. He does have dopaminergic formulas with mucuna pruriens but I find that I do better on plain old DLPA.

I must say, reading through the letters on his site and reading his thoughts on medications and gene expression and liver enzymes is definitely educational.

[Guest guest]

> interesting, the first psychiatrist i saw said my sleep problems and anxiety were due to a lack of norepinephrine. of course, he wanted to put me on desipramine. no thanks

Wow that is interesting. Sounds like that guy might not have been clueless. I was kind of surprised when Dr. Lin said this to me because generally he points to serotonin for sleep improvement as most people would expect. But I have no doubt that taking DLPA did improve my sleep last year and after a couple of weeks back on it I've actually just gotten a couple of decent nights of sleep.

Desiprimine is actually near the top of the short list of meds I may decide to try if I ever do decide to go the med route again. Unfortunately, even though it may be the least anticholinergic of the TCAs it's still anticholinergic. This is why I've become med averse. Whenever you take a medication to address one particular issue you end up screwing up something else. I bet it would probably knock me out. Come to think of it the norepinephrine boost from elavil is probably why that med is so sedating for me.

[Guest guest]

I might have considered desipramine if it were completely devoid of

sexual side effects. But I can't try anything else that may end up

making things worse sexually. I just don't think I could handle it.

Is tianeptine on your list?

>

> > interesting, the first psychiatrist i saw said my sleep problems

and

> anxiety were due to a lack of norepinephrine. of course, he wanted

to put me on

> desipramine. no

> thanks

>

> Wow that is interesting. Sounds like that guy might not have been

clueless.

> I was kind of surprised when Dr. Lin said this to me because

generally he

> points to serotonin for sleep improvement as most people would

expect. But I

> have no doubt that taking DLPA did improve my sleep last year and

after a couple

> of weeks back on it I've actually just gotten a couple of decent

nights of

> sleep.

>

> Desiprimine is actually near the top of the short list of meds I

may decide

> to try if I ever do decide to go the med route again.

Unfortunately, even

> though it may be the least anticholinergic of the TCAs it's still

anticholinergic.

> This is why I've become med averse. Whenever you take a

medication to

> address one particular issue you end up screwing up something

else. I bet it would

> probably knock me out. Come to think of it the norepinephrine

boost from

> elavil is probably why that med is so sedating for me.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> 2. I had a neurotransmitter blood test. This showed that I was

>severely low in norepinephrine, serotonin and acetylcholine.

>Dopamine was on the bottom of the normal reference range. In a lot

>of the abstracts they do use blood neurotransmitter levels to test

>the effectiveness medications. So this is probable a viable test,

>particularly in relation to the chatecholamines.

This is very interesting. I've long suspected that all the key

neurotransmitters are low due to long-term SSRI use. I think this is

at least part of the problem. The symptoms that I have now would

indicate low norepenephrine/serotonin moreso than low dopamine.

Luther

[Guest guest]

I'm still trying to nail down what the best protocol for me is. Right now I usually take 1000 or 1500 mgs as soon as I get up with some B6 (P5P) or a 50mg B-complex and wash it down with some juice. I'll wait at least a half hour before eating breakfast. Than I'll take another 1000 mg before lunch and another 500 mg in the late afternoon or evening. Right now I don't think an exact protocol is as important as just getting plenty of this stuff into to me. I'm also taking a few other supplements like a multi, some lecithin, DHA & EPA, alpha lipoic acid, etc.

Here's the thing. I gave Cymbalta a six week trial run back in December and January. At the end of the first week I felt the urge to whack off. (Unfortunately, I've been girlfriendless for the past year and a half thanks to the wretched physical state I'm in.) I have to say my genitals felt fuller and healthier than they had in quite awhile. Almost like the old days. Of course this effect didn't last and the drug ended up destroying my already messed up sleep cycle and made me more constipated and gave me a headache. But this proved to me that my problems stem from neurotransmitter depletion. Now after about a month on the DLPA i think I'm starting to get some improvement. Not a dramatic short term improvement that you might get from a drug but a slow improvement. I've been feeling hornier. I'm trying to keep the orgasms to once a week because I don't want to overstress my burned out nervous system. (Really need to follow Dr. Lin's advice here.) I generally get the urge after about 4 or 5 days. I have to say the last two times were better than they have been in a while. Little to no testicular/genitourinary pain, which is something I've been plagued with since stopping the meds, and an increased feeling of vigor. So I think the DLPA is slowly replenishing my catacholamine stores.

I still have a very long way to go, but at least I feel like I might be moving in the right direction. I wish the damned winter would end so I can go jogging and get some sun on my face. That always helps me. I also may start adding in a 1/2 grain of thyroid hormone in a week or so.

[Guest guest]

>Here's the thing. I gave Cymbalta a six week trial run back in

>December and January. At the end of the first week I felt the urge

>to whack off. (Unfortunately, I've been girlfriendless for the past

>year and a half thanks to the wretched physical state I'm in.) I

>have to say my genitals felt fuller and healthier than they had in

>quite awhile. Almost like the old days. Of course this effect

>didn't last and the drug ended up destroying my already messed up

>sleep cycle and made me more constipated and gave me a headache.

But >this proved to me that my problems stem from neurotransmitter

>depletion.

I'm not surprised Cymbalta gave you a temporary benefit, due to its

effect on serotonin and norepinephrine. And I agree that for many of

us, neurotransmitter depletion is an issue. I'm guessing Cymbalta

gave you that initial burst of neurotransmitters, but your body

quickly adjusted and started breaking the chemicals down at a faster

rate. That's why I think pure reuptake inhibitors aren't going to

solve our problems. Something like the TCA that was discussed

earlier, or Emsam down the road could prove more useful. Even

tianeptine, by speeding up the reuptake of serotonin, could

indirectly strengthen the dopamine/norepinephrine systems.

This is my current opinion anyway.

Luther

[Guest guest]

> I'm guessing Cymbalta gave you that initial burst of neurotransmitters, but your body quickly adjusted and started breaking the chemicals down at a faster rate.

Yes I think this is the case also. Unlike a lot of the people on this site, I'm struggling more with an oversensitivity issue than numbness or too little sensitivity. I also have a nerve pain issue which pre-dates the antidepressants. Although it's much worse now after having been on the meds. This may have been one of the early signs of catacholamine depletion. If I decide to go the med route again I'll probably give desipramine a shot. It's supposed to be a lot "cleaner" than the other TCA's. One good thing is that it's cheap. Especially, compared to Cymbalta. I know that shouldn't be the main concern, but it is a concern nonetheless. If I do try it I'll start at a tiny dose and try to stay as low as possible.

[Guest guest]

I believe the SSRIs have caused an acetylcholine deficiency, which

lead to a testosterone deficiency, which lead to a dopamine

deficiency. SSRIs can interrupt the production of Acetylcholine.

SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/antidep/a/0207_ssridisc1.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Acetylcholine deficiency signs/symptoms:

* Difficulty remembering names after meeting people

* Difficulty remembering peoples birthdays

* Memory ability is decreasing

* Confused thinking

* Lost some of my creativity

* Lack imagination

* Partner tells me I lack romantic thoughts

* I like routine

* Don't care about stories other than my own

* Don't pay attention to others feelings

* Feel despair and lack joy

* I give in easily and tend to be passive

* Rarely feel passionate

* Prefer to do things alone than in groups

* Dry mouth

* Can't breath easily

www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Acetylcholin\

e%20deficiency

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The most important thing you be should taking is Acytl L-Carnitine

supplements. Start on a low does of 250mg a day as they can cause

insomnia.

ALC facilitates both the release and synthesis of Acetylcholine.

ALC's ability to increase the synthesis of Acetylcholine occurs as a

result of it donating its Acetyl group towards the production of

Acetylcholine.

ALC increases the Brain's levels of Choline Acetylase (which in turn

facilities the production of Acetylcholine).

ALC enhances the release of Dopamine from Dopaminergic Neurons and

improves the binding of Dopamine to Dopamine Receptors.

ALC prevents the depletion of Luteinising Hormone Releasing Hormone

(LHRH) caused by exposure to excessive Stress.

ALC increases plasma Testosterone levels (via its influence on

Acetylcholine neurotransmission in the Striatal Cortex of the Brain)

and prevents the depletion of Testosterone caused by exposure to

excessive Stress [research - rats].

http://www.smart-drugs.com/info-alc.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------

ALC stimulates the breakdown of arachidonic acid, which is a precursor

of certain inflammatory substances called leukotrienes,

prostaglandins, and thromboxanes.

ALC enhances energy metabolism in such a way as to increase the

breakdown of histamine.

Among the reasons why ALC has shown these benefits may be that:

ALC is a precursor (with choline) of acetylcholine, which the

brain desperately needs.

ALC helps remove toxic waste products of fatty acid metabolism from

mitochondria, allowing for more efficient energy production.

ALC may help to regenerate cholinergic neurons, i.e., nerve cells

whose signals are transmitted by acetylcholine, by stimulating the

production of a protein called nerve growth factor.

ALC may be able to inhibit apoptosis (programmed cell death) of

cerebral nerve cells

http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=610

>

> >So, His theory that you are low on norephinephrine and

acetylcholine matched

> the neurotransmitter testing resulting that you are low on

norephinephrine

> and acetylcholine ?

>

> Well, I've had three different neurotransmitter tests done.

>

> 1. I had the a urine neurotransmitter test done by the NeuroScience

company

> that's done by mail. This test showed low serotonin and high GABA

and PEA and

> very high histamine. The chatecholamines were near normal ranges.

No one

> seems to know what this means or even if this urine test is of any

use.

>

> 2. I had a neurotransmitter blood test. This showed that I was

severely low

> in norepinephrine, serotonin and acetylcholine. Dopamine was on the

bottom

> of the normal reference range. In a lot of the abstracts they do

use blood

> neurotransmitter levels to test the effectiveness medications. So

this is

> probable a viable test, particularly in relation to the

chatecholamines.

>

> 3. I had a QEEG " brain mapping " done. This is supposed to measure

dopamine,

> serotonin, GABA and acetylcholine. This showed that I was severely

depleted

> in dopamine, mildly depleted in serotonin. GABA and acetylcholine

both fell

> in the normal range. From what I've read about this test it's most

useful for

> measuring dopamine activity since dopamine since it's activity in

the brain

> does seem to correspond to brain voltage which is measurable.

>

> From my experience I have found that DLPA over time did help me a

lot. I was

> taking it last spring with extra B6 and 1/2 grain of natural thyroid

and I

> was jogging and getting as much sunshine as possible and I fell into

the best

> sleep cycle I've had in a long time. Deep slack jawed drooling on

my pillow

> sleep. As opposed to interrupted, dry eyes and mouth, poor quality

sleep that is

> the norm for me. I'm trying to recreate what I did last spring.

I'm taking

> 2000 to 3000mg of DLPA per day in 2 or 3 divided doses. I'm going

to try

> adding in 50mg 5htp in the late afternoon/evening and some extra

choline and

> lecithin also.

>

> Dr. Lin does push 5htp and most of his products have griffonia seed

(5htp) in

> them. It's all part of his plan to stop the DA-NE-E conversion. By

doing

> this you preserve dopamine and avoid the pro-inflamatory " tissue

burning "

> effects of having constantly elevated epinephrine levels in your

blood stream. He

> feels that this is what causes a lot of peoples' pelvic,

genitourinary and

> lower back pain. Problems that most clueless doctors just throw

unnecessary

> antibiotics at. I've tried some of his products and they're pretty

good. But I

> think in my case the DA/NE levels are already too depleted to think

that just

> slowing the conversion reaction is going to rebuild them. I need to

actively

> replenish them with high amounts of precursors. That's my theory.

He does have

> dopaminergic formulas with mucuna pruriens but I find that I do

better on

> plain old DLPA.

>

> I must say, reading through the letters on his site and reading his

thoughts

> on medications and gene expression and liver enzymes is definitely

> educational.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Addressing an acetylcholine deficiency with precursor therapy is no easy task. It's not as straightforward as using phenylalanine and/or tyrosine to boost catecholamine levels. (Which is something I'm currently having some luck with.) I've used high doses of choline and lecithin and didn't feel any improvement. The same with acetyl l-carnitine. Perhaps they need to be taken for a much longer time then I took them. Natural treatment approaches generally take a long time to work. I have found high doses of alpha-lipoic acid to be beneficial. Besides being an excellent antioxidant, it apparently also acts as a weak acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

I think Dr. Lin is correct in that aberrant liver function is a huge part of the problem. This is why I'm extremely wary of taking more medications that inhibit liver enzymes. There are only a few medications that I'd still consider using. Low dose selegiline is one. Besides being dopaminergic, it's also an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. So it boosts both dopamine and acetylcholine. Galantamine also may be of benefit.

I've tried some of Dr. Lin's supplements and I find them to be a bit heavy on the 5htp for my taste. Taking 5htp exacerbates my symptoms. Probably by further suppressing my already very weak dopamine function. Perhaps they might work better once I get my DA/NE fired back up with the DLPA and tyrosine. One can only hope...

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Here's the abstract that I read.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12220956 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum

Hydergine and huperzine-A are two other acetylcholine boosting nutriceuticals.

[Guest guest]

,

Where did you read that Selegiline is an acetylcholinesterase

inhibitor? I did not know that. Thanks.

Luther

>

> Hi,

>

> Addressing an acetylcholine deficiency with precursor therapy is

no easy

> task. It's not as straightforward as using phenylalanine and/or

tyrosine to boost

> catecholamine levels. (Which is something I'm currently having

some luck

> with.) I've used high doses of choline and lecithin and didn't

feel any

> improvement. The same with acetyl l-carnitine. Perhaps they need

to be taken for a

> much longer time then I took them. Natural treatment approaches

generally take

> a long time to work. I have found high doses of alpha-lipoic acid

to be

> beneficial. Besides being an excellent antioxidant, it apparently

also acts as a

> weak acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.

>

> I think Dr. Lin is correct in that aberrant liver function is a

huge part of

> the problem. This is why I'm extremely wary of taking more

medications that

> inhibit liver enzymes. There are only a few medications that I'd

still

> consider using. Low dose selegiline is one. Besides being

dopaminergic, it's also

> an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. So it boosts both dopamine and

> acetylcholine. Galantamine also may be of benefit.

>

> I've tried some of Dr. Lin's supplements and I find them to be a

bit heavy on

> the 5htp for my taste. Taking 5htp exacerbates my symptoms.

Probably by

> further suppressing my already very weak dopamine function.

Perhaps they might

> work better once I get my DA/NE fired back up with the DLPA and

tyrosine. One

> can only hope...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I remembery you saying once you had some galantamine to try. Did

you ever try it?

>

> Hi,

>

> Here's the abstract that I read.

>

> <A HREF= " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12220956 & query_hl=10 & itoo

l=pubmed_docsum " >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed &

> dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12220956 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum</A>

>

> Hydergine and huperzine-A are two other acetylcholine boosting

nutriceuticals.

>

[Guest guest]

That's good to know. I did take low dose selegiline (2.5mg twice a

week) a little over a year ago. I didn't notice any effect at all, but

perhaps I need a much higher dose to allow for more than just a

dopamine increase.

Luther

>

> Hi,

>

> Here's the abstract that I read.

>

> <A HREF= " http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12220956 & query_hl=10 & ito

ol=pubmed_docsum " >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed &

> dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12220956 & query_hl=10 & itool=pubmed_docsum</A>

>

> Hydergine and huperzine-A are two other acetylcholine boosting

nutriceuticals.

>

[Guest guest]

I just took one. It's the first test so I'll let you know how it goes. I doubt I'll feel anything after one pill but we'll see. I tried playing with yohimbine lately and have found that it really exacerbates my screwy autonomic symptoms. I've come to believe that a chronic NE depletion has upregulated my adrenergic receptors. The same may be true of my dopaminergic system. This "theory" explains a lot of my symptoms and would most likely explain my paradoxical response to medications like wellbutrin and requip.

[Guest guest]

It's hard to say at what dose the acetylcholinesterase inhibition kicks in. In any case it's probably mild in comparison to a more acetylcholine specific med like galantamine. Did you get anything out of taking selegiline. It probably would need to be taken for quite a while at that dose before any noticable effects occur.

[Guest guest]

I pretty much feel the same way. I think low NE is my biggest problem. I'm still uncertain where serotonin fits in. I did get some benefit from Paxil as far as suppression of fight or flight. Of course we all know the downside. In some ways I think it may have pushed me into a little bit of ADHD because it made me somewhat aggressive. I tried Cymbalta a few months back figuring I'd try boosting both NE an SE. While I did get a positive response as far as decreased genital pain, it ultimately felt too serotonergic. And it really made my sleep worse, which is the last thing I need. My entire nervous system is a complete mess thanks primarily to Elavil. Which of course, if you drop the "la" spells Evil.

[Guest guest]

The only thing I got out of selegiline was some slight agitation. I've

come to the conclusion that I probably need a norepinephrine boost

just as much (if not more) than dopamine. I'm not sure where serotonin

fits in, but it wouldn't surprise me if I needed a bit more of that as

well.

I have quite few symptoms of clinical depression, and that usually

means some sort of imbalance in norepinephrine/serotonin. Increasing

dopamine, in most cases, won't relieve depression.

Luther

>

> It's hard to say at what dose the acetylcholinesterase inhibition

kicks in.

> In any case it's probably mild in comparison to a more acetylcholine

specific

> med like galantamine. Did you get anything out of taking

selegiline. It

> probably would need to be taken for quite a while at that dose

before any

> noticable effects occur.

>

[Guest guest]

how about epinephrine (adrenaline)? my urine sample test it was the

only VERY low.

but anyways, here it talks about having right amount of

dopamine/norepinephrine and too much norepinephrine can cause

erectile dyfunction. it also says that dopamine converts to

epinephrine and norepinephrine.

http://www.raysahelian.com/neurotransmitter.html

Im starting to think our balance of transmitters are off. and rasing

anything too much can cause sexual problems like taking too much

dosage of dopamine agonists, SNRI, SSRI. just an opinion.

>

> I pretty much feel the same way. I think low NE is my biggest

problem. I'm

> still uncertain where serotonin fits in. I did get some benefit

from Paxil as

> far as suppression of fight or flight. Of course we all know the

downside.

> In some ways I think it may have pushed me into a little bit of

ADHD because

> it made me somewhat aggressive. I tried Cymbalta a few months

back figuring

> I'd try boosting both NE an SE. While I did get a positive

response as far as

> decreased genital pain, it ultimately felt too serotonergic. And

it really

> made my sleep worse, which is the last thing I need. My entire

nervous system is

> a complete mess thanks primarily to Elavil. Which of course, if

you drop the

> " la " spells Evil.

>

[Guest guest]

> It seems to me like elavil weakened me, then ssri's put the nail in the coffin.

Oh man does that sound familiar! Only in my case I took the SSRI first and then Elavil. What a disastrer. I swear that med made me lose muscle mass that I haven't been able to get back. When I finally stopped it I felt like I had aged 20 years. Not 20 easy years either, but 20 hard years.

[Guest guest]

The roles of epinephrine and norepinephrine overlap. They stimulate the same receptors. But norepinephrine is far more abundant in the brain than epinephrine. Being low in epinephrine (adrenaline) may indicate adrenal fatigue since that's where most of it is made. Have you ever tried licorice extract? It might be worth a try. I doubt that I have to worry about too much norepinephrine since I have all of the symptoms of too little norepinephrine, like low heart rate, postural hypotension, low body temperature, etc. These symptoms predate my use of medications and were ignored by every doctor I saw. I guess it's just easier for them to say you're depressed or stressed out and give you an antidepressant. And the wrong antidepressant at that.

[Guest guest]

Elavil sure is evil, I was on it for quite some time before ssris. It

seems to me like elavil weakened me, then ssri's put the nail in the

coffin.

>

> I pretty much feel the same way. I think low NE is my biggest

problem. I'm

> still uncertain where serotonin fits in. I did get some benefit

from Paxil as

> far as suppression of fight or flight. Of course we all know the

downside.

> In some ways I think it may have pushed me into a little bit of ADHD

because

> it made me somewhat aggressive. I tried Cymbalta a few months back

figuring

> I'd try boosting both NE an SE. While I did get a positive response

as far as

> decreased genital pain, it ultimately felt too serotonergic. And it

really

> made my sleep worse, which is the last thing I need. My entire

nervous system is

> a complete mess thanks primarily to Elavil. Which of course, if you

drop the

> " la " spells Evil.

>