Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I dont smoke.I got an appointment with a metabolist at University College London Hospital on Monday over a different medical issue that i dont feel i have a problem with but he is friendly and likes to talk so If anyone wants me to ask him anything relating to metabolism of drugs , enzymes involved etc i can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I'm confused as to whether some of our receptors have been desensitized, or whether the receptors are fine but just not getting the signals from appropriate neurotransmitters. Or maybe a combination of the two. As I understand it, a dopamine agonist is essentially a dopamine " supplement " , meaning it mimics dopamine thus acting as a substitute. These agonists are selective to certain receptors depending on the drug used. Conversely, a drug such as selegiline will simply raise the concentration of dopamine by inhibiting MAO-B. Which receptors the additional dopamine ends up binding to is anyone's guess. So I'm guessing certain dopamine receptors are fine, and certain ones are not. Does this make sense? Luther > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects. > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody > has noticed anything in this regard. > > Vornan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the peiord where I lost libido (which includes now). v0rnan19 wrote: > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects. > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody > has noticed anything in this regard. > > Vornan > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Thanks, Jackie. Since your only symptom is loss of libido, I wonder if the nicotine somehow helped prevented other symptoms from developing? BTW, are you going to have a hormone panel done?> In SSRIsex , Jackie Patti <jpatti@c...> wrote: > > I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the peiord > where I lost libido (which includes now). > > v0rnan19 wrote: > > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects. > > > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody > > has noticed anything in this regard. > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yes, but I'm not sure when exactly I'll have it done. I've been postponing going to the doctor for some time now. Procrastination is not a symptom of SSRI use, I had it before then. I'm thinking of discussing DHEA as a possible treatment, presuming my hormone panel shows low testosterone for a female. I know it's available over the counter, but it seems to me to be a tad more risky to use for a female than for males, so I really wish to discuss with a doctor before supplementing. And if it's not hormone-related, I guess we'll discuss the dopamine agonist angle... v0rnan19 wrote: > Thanks, Jackie. Since your only symptom is loss of libido, I wonder > if the nicotine somehow helped prevented other symptoms from > developing? BTW, are you going to have a hormone panel done?> > > In SSRIsex , Jackie Patti <jpatti@c...> wrote: > >>I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the > > peiord > >>where I lost libido (which includes now). >> >>v0rnan19 wrote: >> >> >>>Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering > > if > >>>smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side > > effects. > >>>I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if > > anybody > >>>has noticed anything in this regard. >>> >>>Vornan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 It's possible that dopamine and other neurotransmitters are low, but my hunch is that the receptors are messed up. The reason I say that is that it seems most people get a better response to the DAs than to drugs that just raise dopamine like selegiline and wellbutrin. When I've tried to raise my dopamine with macuna pruriens or tyrosine, or raise serotonin with tryptophan, I don't notice much of an effect. There is also a lot of experimental evidence that SSRIs change the behavior of receptors, but I haven't seen much published on them lowering tranmistter levels. DAs are not just dopamine mimics: they bind more strongly to the receptors, and bind for a longer time. It's possible for a receptor to cease to respond properly to it's natural ligand, but still respond to an agonist. Also, receptors are surrounded by a lot of other proteins (like G-proteins) which transmit the signal into the cell. If these proteins are not interacting with the receptor properly, then the signal will not be transmitted. I suspect that agonists might somehow be able to improve these interactions, but I don't know for sure. In summary, IMO it has more to do with receptors that transmitters, but I can't prove it. It's more like an intuitive feeling, but I could be wrong. I guess the best thing to do is to try different things until you find something that works. In SSRIsex , " lightsoutluther " <lightsoutluther@y...> wrote: > > > > I'm confused as to whether some of our receptors have been > desensitized, or whether the receptors are fine but just not getting > the signals from appropriate neurotransmitters. Or maybe a combination > of the two. > > As I understand it, a dopamine agonist is essentially a > dopamine " supplement " , meaning it mimics dopamine thus acting as a > substitute. These agonists are selective to certain receptors > depending on the drug used. > > Conversely, a drug such as selegiline will simply raise the > concentration of dopamine by inhibiting MAO-B. Which receptors the > additional dopamine ends up binding to is anyone's guess. > > So I'm guessing certain dopamine receptors are fine, and certain ones > are not. > > Does this make sense? > > > Luther > > > > > > > > > > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects. > > > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody > > has noticed anything in this regard. > > > > Vornan > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 DHEA is actually more effective at raising testosterone in women than in men. I've heard some women get very good results with it. In men, it usually doesn't raise T high enough, and tends to easily convert into estradiol. OTOH you obviously don't want it sending your T too high, or it will cause side effects. > >> > >> > >>>Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering > > > > if > > > >>>smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side > > > > effects. > > > >>>I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if > > > > anybody > > > >>>has noticed anything in this regard. > >>> > >>>Vornan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 There are a lot of homeopathic websites that theorize that SSRIs " waste " neurotransmitters, which is why these drugs eventually stop working for everyone. Plus reuptake inhibitors don't actually raise neurotransmitter levels, rather " trick " the brain into thinking there is more. So over time the brain will decide to start metabolizing transmitters quicker, leading to all sorts of problems. I haven't found any scientific studies on this, so these are merely opinions/theories. I haven't heard many positive reports on selegiline on doses of 10mg or less. I'm hoping to try a higher dose (20mg) if and when it comes out in patch form. My feeling is that it will help with my depressive symptoms, but anything more than that (i.e. libido improvements) will be a bonus. Thank you for explaining DAs a bit more. Down the road I may try Requip, seeing how Dostinex didn't do the trick for me. Luther > > > > > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering > if > > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side > effects. > > > > > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if > anybody > > > has noticed anything in this regard. > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Well, I think reuptake inhibitors do in fact raise neurotransmitters but the question is how long does this effect last. It might only be temporary. But it's certainly known that the excess serotonin in the synapse causes downregulation and desensitization of postsynaptic serotonin receptors. That's a pretty well established effect, but the effect on dopamine receptors is less clear. My problem with the sites that say that SSRIs cause loss of neurotransmitters is that they provide very little evidence to support that claim. BTW, if you don't want to wait for the selegiline patch whay don't you just get some transdermal cream made up at a compounding phramacy? You could easily take 20 mg per day that way without it going through the liver. I have the cream myself but I was only taking 3 mg/day, and it didn't do much. But maybe it would be efective at higher doses, as you say. > > > There are a lot of homeopathic websites that theorize that > SSRIs " waste " neurotransmitters, which is why these drugs eventually > stop working for everyone. Plus reuptake inhibitors don't actually > raise neurotransmitter levels, rather " trick " the brain into > thinking there is more. So over time the brain will decide to start > metabolizing transmitters quicker, leading to all sorts of problems. > I haven't found any scientific studies on this, so these are merely > opinions/theories. > > I haven't heard many positive reports on selegiline on doses of 10mg > or less. I'm hoping to try a higher dose (20mg) if and when it comes > out in patch form. My feeling is that it will help with my > depressive symptoms, but anything more than that (i.e. libido > improvements) will be a bonus. > > Thank you for explaining DAs a bit more. Down the road I may try > Requip, seeing how Dostinex didn't do the trick for me. > > Luther > > > > > > > > > > > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just > wondering > > if > > > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side > > effects. > > > > > > > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if > > anybody > > > > has noticed anything in this regard. > > > > > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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