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Re: Does anybody smoke?

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I dont smoke.I got an appointment with a metabolist at University

College London Hospital on Monday over a different medical issue that i

dont feel i have a problem with but he is friendly and likes to talk so

If anyone wants me to ask him anything relating to metabolism of

drugs , enzymes involved etc i can do.

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I'm confused as to whether some of our receptors have been

desensitized, or whether the receptors are fine but just not getting

the signals from appropriate neurotransmitters. Or maybe a combination

of the two.

As I understand it, a dopamine agonist is essentially a

dopamine " supplement " , meaning it mimics dopamine thus acting as a

substitute. These agonists are selective to certain receptors

depending on the drug used.

Conversely, a drug such as selegiline will simply raise the

concentration of dopamine by inhibiting MAO-B. Which receptors the

additional dopamine ends up binding to is anyone's guess.

So I'm guessing certain dopamine receptors are fine, and certain ones

are not.

Does this make sense?

Luther

>

> Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if

> smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects.

>

> I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody

> has noticed anything in this regard.

>

> Vornan

>

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I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the peiord

where I lost libido (which includes now).

v0rnan19 wrote:

> Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering if

> smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side effects.

>

> I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if anybody

> has noticed anything in this regard.

>

> Vornan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Thanks, Jackie. Since your only symptom is loss of libido, I wonder

if the nicotine somehow helped prevented other symptoms from

developing? BTW, are you going to have a hormone panel done?>

In SSRIsex , Jackie Patti <jpatti@c...> wrote:

>

> I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the

peiord

> where I lost libido (which includes now).

>

> v0rnan19 wrote:

>

> > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering

if

> > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

effects.

> >

> > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

anybody

> > has noticed anything in this regard.

> >

> > Vornan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Yes, but I'm not sure when exactly I'll have it done. I've been

postponing going to the doctor for some time now. Procrastination is

not a symptom of SSRI use, I had it before then. ;)

I'm thinking of discussing DHEA as a possible treatment, presuming my

hormone panel shows low testosterone for a female. I know it's

available over the counter, but it seems to me to be a tad more risky to

use for a female than for males, so I really wish to discuss with a

doctor before supplementing.

And if it's not hormone-related, I guess we'll discuss the dopamine

agonist angle...

v0rnan19 wrote:

> Thanks, Jackie. Since your only symptom is loss of libido, I wonder

> if the nicotine somehow helped prevented other symptoms from

> developing? BTW, are you going to have a hormone panel done?>

>

> In SSRIsex , Jackie Patti <jpatti@c...> wrote:

>

>>I smoke. I did so before I was ever on SSRIs and throughout the

>

> peiord

>

>>where I lost libido (which includes now).

>>

>>v0rnan19 wrote:

>>

>>

>>>Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering

>

> if

>

>>>smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

>

> effects.

>

>>>I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

>

> anybody

>

>>>has noticed anything in this regard.

>>>

>>>Vornan

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

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It's possible that dopamine and other neurotransmitters are low, but

my hunch is that the receptors are messed up.

The reason I say that is that it seems most people get a better

response to the DAs than to drugs that just raise dopamine like

selegiline and wellbutrin. When I've tried to raise my dopamine

with macuna pruriens or tyrosine, or raise serotonin with

tryptophan, I don't notice much of an effect.

There is also a lot of experimental evidence that SSRIs change the

behavior of receptors, but I haven't seen much published on them

lowering tranmistter levels.

DAs are not just dopamine mimics: they bind more strongly to the

receptors, and bind for a longer time. It's possible for a receptor

to cease to respond properly to it's natural ligand, but still

respond to an agonist. Also, receptors are surrounded by a lot of

other proteins (like G-proteins) which transmit the signal into the

cell. If these proteins are not interacting with the receptor

properly, then the signal will not be transmitted. I suspect that

agonists might somehow be able to improve these interactions, but I

don't know for sure.

In summary, IMO it has more to do with receptors that transmitters,

but I can't prove it. It's more like an intuitive feeling, but I

could be wrong. I guess the best thing to do is to try different

things until you find something that works.

In SSRIsex , " lightsoutluther " <lightsoutluther@y...>

wrote:

>

>

>

> I'm confused as to whether some of our receptors have been

> desensitized, or whether the receptors are fine but just not

getting

> the signals from appropriate neurotransmitters. Or maybe a

combination

> of the two.

>

> As I understand it, a dopamine agonist is essentially a

> dopamine " supplement " , meaning it mimics dopamine thus acting as a

> substitute. These agonists are selective to certain receptors

> depending on the drug used.

>

> Conversely, a drug such as selegiline will simply raise the

> concentration of dopamine by inhibiting MAO-B. Which receptors the

> additional dopamine ends up binding to is anyone's guess.

>

> So I'm guessing certain dopamine receptors are fine, and certain

ones

> are not.

>

> Does this make sense?

>

>

> Luther

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering

if

> > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

effects.

> >

> > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

anybody

> > has noticed anything in this regard.

> >

> > Vornan

> >

>

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DHEA is actually more effective at raising testosterone in women

than in men. I've heard some women get very good results with it.

In men, it usually doesn't raise T high enough, and tends to easily

convert into estradiol. OTOH you obviously don't want it sending

your T too high, or it will cause side effects.

> >>

> >>

> >>>Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just wondering

> >

> > if

> >

> >>>smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

> >

> > effects.

> >

> >>>I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

> >

> > anybody

> >

> >>>has noticed anything in this regard.

> >>>

> >>>Vornan

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

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There are a lot of homeopathic websites that theorize that

SSRIs " waste " neurotransmitters, which is why these drugs eventually

stop working for everyone. Plus reuptake inhibitors don't actually

raise neurotransmitter levels, rather " trick " the brain into

thinking there is more. So over time the brain will decide to start

metabolizing transmitters quicker, leading to all sorts of problems.

I haven't found any scientific studies on this, so these are merely

opinions/theories.

I haven't heard many positive reports on selegiline on doses of 10mg

or less. I'm hoping to try a higher dose (20mg) if and when it comes

out in patch form. My feeling is that it will help with my

depressive symptoms, but anything more than that (i.e. libido

improvements) will be a bonus.

Thank you for explaining DAs a bit more. Down the road I may try

Requip, seeing how Dostinex didn't do the trick for me.

Luther

> > >

> > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just

wondering

> if

> > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

> effects.

> > >

> > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

> anybody

> > > has noticed anything in this regard.

> > >

> > > Vornan

> > >

> >

>

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Well, I think reuptake inhibitors do in fact raise

neurotransmitters but the question is how long does this effect

last. It might only be temporary. But it's certainly known that

the excess serotonin in the synapse causes downregulation and

desensitization of postsynaptic serotonin receptors. That's a

pretty well established effect, but the effect on dopamine receptors

is less clear. My problem with the sites that say that SSRIs cause

loss of neurotransmitters is that they provide very little evidence

to support that claim.

BTW, if you don't want to wait for the selegiline patch whay don't

you just get some transdermal cream made up at a compounding

phramacy? You could easily take 20 mg per day that way without it

going through the liver. I have the cream myself but I was only

taking 3 mg/day, and it didn't do much. But maybe it would be

efective at higher doses, as you say.

>

>

> There are a lot of homeopathic websites that theorize that

> SSRIs " waste " neurotransmitters, which is why these drugs

eventually

> stop working for everyone. Plus reuptake inhibitors don't actually

> raise neurotransmitter levels, rather " trick " the brain into

> thinking there is more. So over time the brain will decide to

start

> metabolizing transmitters quicker, leading to all sorts of

problems.

> I haven't found any scientific studies on this, so these are

merely

> opinions/theories.

>

> I haven't heard many positive reports on selegiline on doses of

10mg

> or less. I'm hoping to try a higher dose (20mg) if and when it

comes

> out in patch form. My feeling is that it will help with my

> depressive symptoms, but anything more than that (i.e. libido

> improvements) will be a bonus.

>

> Thank you for explaining DAs a bit more. Down the road I may try

> Requip, seeing how Dostinex didn't do the trick for me.

>

> Luther

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Nicotine can sensitize dopamine receptors so I'm just

> wondering

> > if

> > > > smoking has any effect on the persistence of the sexual side

> > effects.

> > > >

> > > > I don't smoke, and I don't want to start, but I'm curious if

> > anybody

> > > > has noticed anything in this regard.

> > > >

> > > > Vornan

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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