Re: If this were my list.......

[Guest guest]

Wise words, Barb. I wish it WERE your list...

It's hard to know when to try to step in and when to just let things

run out of control. I don't envy ANY moderator. On other lists I've

owned, I've gone for letting chaos work itself into some kind of

order and usually it does work out okay. It just seems that entropy

rules more strongly on these PWC lists and things get out of hand

more quickly, especially when you start getting reactions to a

personality like Tony (which inevitably happens). People start

arguing about the argument, and next thing you know, you've got

world war III. I've seen it happen time and again. We never seem to

learn. Since my hands are kind of tied if I won't use the banning

button, all I can do is express my own opinion (if I feel I have an

opinion worth expressing), which is not popular when people are

looking for some authority to rule on their side.

As I'm sure many of you know, Tony has been banned yet again from

another major list, mainly for the way he delivered his message. In

that particular case, the person he was arguing with didn't even

want him banned. But people who don't like posts like Tony's, well

that's the right list for them.

I kind of feel that unpopular people or opinions need at least one

place where they CAN be expressed, since nobody else allows it. If

people could open their minds just a little, and overlook the dirt,

they might actually find diamonds in the rough every so often. They

might even find some popular theories blown to bits, or really crazy

ideas turning out to be true.

And Tony, thanks once again for creating unnecessary controversy.

Some day I'm coming to Oz and the first thing I'm going to do is

kick your a**. Then I'll kiss you. :-)

penny

p.s. In the future, I'll try not step in for anybody, I won't ask

for any toning down, or apologies, or tolerance on anyone's part,

and if things DO get completely out of control, I WILL just shut the

list down. That's because I'm really not sure it's worth all the

trouble anymore.

> I'd set it free.

>

> Yah know -if I were the list owner (Penny), - and beleive me I'd

> never, NEVER want that job- I'd tell the list to moderate

> themselves. I think Penny just doesn't like to weild that power

of

> control that some other moderators just love to exercise.

>

> People will either drop off the list- remain as lurkers, or be

driven

> off by others that rise to the occassion to remind them they're

out

> of bounds.

>

[Guest guest]

YOu do favor Tony, it's clear, because he's a friend and you feel he

has helped a lot of people. WHereas, there was a point on this list

where my just saying how HBO helped me and recommending it to

Scha got me a great deal of ire from you.

OTOH...just scroll on by. The only time I take issue with people is

when they deride, wrongly, a therapy I KNOW, from personal

experience, is helpful. Otherwise I don't care if they say to me,

piss off, you jerk, you this, you that. Who cares? Mostly they're ill

and not in their right minds anyway. And in my case, I know people

perceive me at times as...let's see, an arrogant, know-it all?

SOmebody who has access to things they don't because I'm a

journalist, and in whatever way I convey that, irritate the hell out

of them at times? I'm aware of this and maybe it's even true but hey,

these lists are not a popularity contest. This is a pretty good list

for discussing scientific research. IF you don't want to continue

running it Penny, likely SOMEbody would, who knows who (not me, LOL).

I think the list should just accept that you favor Tony and scroll on

by. Don't take offense at perceived rudeness. Besides I've posted on

here a few times, but Aussie's have a playful rudeness that is built

into their culture, I know because I was married to one. Americans

are VERY literal and they never make the kind of rude jokes AUssie's

do. And so there is a culture gap esp. in cyberspace.

> > I'd set it free.

> >

> > Yah know -if I were the list owner (Penny), - and beleive me I'd

> > never, NEVER want that job- I'd tell the list to moderate

> > themselves. I think Penny just doesn't like to weild that power

> of

> > control that some other moderators just love to exercise.

> >

> > People will either drop off the list- remain as lurkers, or be

> driven

> > off by others that rise to the occassion to remind them they're

> out

> > of bounds.

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey Penny

Sorry for the upheaval, I know it bares no fruit to go against

strong beleifs held by many here.

It was just unfortuante that the topic was the rest of the medical

community versus Igenex.I sort of sided with what I believed and

stated why.It is a debate we shouldn't shy away from as is the case

for finding and discussing common bacteria.Unfortunately as you can

see we have many people having a hard time even believing they

actually have a bacterial infection.I mean even Ken has gone into

this vitamin D thing for the past few months as the cause for all

evils.

> > I'd set it free.

> >

> > Yah know -if I were the list owner (Penny), - and beleive me I'd

> > never, NEVER want that job- I'd tell the list to moderate

> > themselves. I think Penny just doesn't like to weild that

power

> of

> > control that some other moderators just love to exercise.

> >

> > People will either drop off the list- remain as lurkers, or be

> driven

> > off by others that rise to the occassion to remind them they're

> out

> > of bounds.

> >

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Most of what you say I agree with. However, I also have a right to

express my opinion, even when it's not in agreement with yours. That

doesn't make it " deridement " . OTOH, being called, as I was, some

very derogatory names off list...THAT's deridement.

Did you, or anyone else get banned from this list because we

disagreed on some treatment? Ummm, no, unless I'm hallucinating, I

think you're still here.

If some people here think they're not receiving the

same " favoritism " that Tony is, despite my personal feelings after

being on the receiving end of some very nasty emails, well, I don't

know what to tell anybody.

I'm just so tired of these endless, pointless arguments which I've

asked time and again to be kept back channel. In reality, it's

always just a handful of people who get into it, everybody else is

cool. So it's a dilemma. Do I hang in here for all the cool people,

shut the computer off for a few days and hope it blows over one more

time, stick up for myself, or just give up and dump the list? Some

non emotional person who I respect should call me and tell me what

they'd do, because I REALLY don't think I care anymore. And I KNOW I

DON'T want to read another word about it here.

penny

Just a reminder, as always, anyone can start a list at . It's

easy. Go for it.

> YOu do favor Tony, it's clear, because he's a friend and you feel

he

> has helped a lot of people. WHereas, there was a point on this

list

> where my just saying how HBO helped me and recommending it to

> Scha got me a great deal of ire from you.

>

> OTOH...just scroll on by. The only time I take issue with people

is

> when they deride, wrongly, a therapy I KNOW, from personal

> experience, is helpful. Otherwise I don't care if they say to me,

> piss off, you jerk, you this, you that. Who cares? Mostly they're

ill

> and not in their right minds anyway. And in my case, I know people

> perceive me at times as...let's see, an arrogant, know-it all?

> SOmebody who has access to things they don't because I'm a

> journalist, and in whatever way I convey that, irritate the hell

out

> of them at times? I'm aware of this and maybe it's even true but

hey,

> these lists are not a popularity contest. This is a pretty good

list

> for discussing scientific research. IF you don't want to continue

> running it Penny, likely SOMEbody would, who knows who (not me,

LOL).

> I think the list should just accept that you favor Tony and scroll

on

> by. Don't take offense at perceived rudeness. Besides I've posted

on

> here a few times, but Aussie's have a playful rudeness that is

built

> into their culture, I know because I was married to one. Americans

> are VERY literal and they never make the kind of rude jokes

AUssie's

> do. And so there is a culture gap esp. in cyberspace.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not really criticizing you, just saying how I see it. You have

your biases toward and against certain people and treatments and I

think people should just deal with it. Apparently you don't ban

people which is good. BTW you CAN moderate...you can delete posts

you don't like and tell people to lay off each other.

> > YOu do favor Tony, it's clear, because he's a friend and you feel

> he

> > has helped a lot of people. WHereas, there was a point on this

> list

> > where my just saying how HBO helped me and recommending it to

> > Scha got me a great deal of ire from you.

> >

> > OTOH...just scroll on by. The only time I take issue with people

> is

> > when they deride, wrongly, a therapy I KNOW, from personal

> > experience, is helpful. Otherwise I don't care if they say to me,

> > piss off, you jerk, you this, you that. Who cares? Mostly they're

> ill

> > and not in their right minds anyway. And in my case, I know

people

> > perceive me at times as...let's see, an arrogant, know-it all?

> > SOmebody who has access to things they don't because I'm a

> > journalist, and in whatever way I convey that, irritate the hell

> out

> > of them at times? I'm aware of this and maybe it's even true but

> hey,

> > these lists are not a popularity contest. This is a pretty good

> list

> > for discussing scientific research. IF you don't want to continue

> > running it Penny, likely SOMEbody would, who knows who (not me,

> LOL).

> > I think the list should just accept that you favor Tony and

scroll

> on

> > by. Don't take offense at perceived rudeness. Besides I've posted

> on

> > here a few times, but Aussie's have a playful rudeness that is

> built

> > into their culture, I know because I was married to one.

Americans

> > are VERY literal and they never make the kind of rude jokes

> AUssie's

> > do. And so there is a culture gap esp. in cyberspace.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tony, you have every right to express your opinions. I just wish you

wouldn't call people " smarty pants " (and worse). Personally, I alone

reserve the right to call you names (you numbskull!).

penny

> Hey Penny

> Sorry for the upheaval, I know it bares no fruit to go against

> strong beleifs held by many here.

> It was just unfortuante that the topic was the rest of the medical

> community versus Igenex.I sort of sided with what I believed and

> stated why.It is a debate we shouldn't shy away from as is the

case

> for finding and discussing common bacteria.Unfortunately as you

can

> see we have many people having a hard time even believing they

> actually have a bacterial infection.I mean even Ken has gone into

> this vitamin D thing for the past few months as the cause for all

> evils.

>