Re: Fact or Myth? Can abnormal posture decrease athleticism?

[Guest guest]

> To me it is obvious.....change the posture so that the hamstrings

> are firing appropriately so that they are not chronically fatigued

> and tight! Eliminate the reason for the chronic overuse and prevent

> the transformation of fast twitch into slow twitch.

>

> I am curious if other have heard or read this book, and their

> insight on my post.

>

> I have found in my training of athletes that changing this posture

> has directly lead to increasing flexibility and speed without

> training the muscles. I had athletes who did not do ANY squats or

> powercleans for 9 weeks.....then come back to those

> exercises.....and improve on average 60 lbs. on the squat and 30 lbs

> on the power cleans. These high school athletes are an example I

> feel of exactly what Mr. Leiber states in his book about the

> transformation process and the ability of it to reverse back.

***

Could you possibly explain in detail and provide evidence to

substantiate your claims? What type of screening did you use to

determine " abnormal " posture? Furthermore, what type of " corrective "

exercises did you use?

The following information may add to the discussion:

=======

The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 15, No. 3,

pp. 385-390.

A Review of Resistance Exercise and Posture Realignment

<Exercise has been promoted in an attempt to correct postural

deviations, such as excessive lumbar lordosis, scoliosis, kyphosis, and abducted

scapulae. One of the assumed causes of these conditions is a weak and lengthened

agonist muscle group combined with a strong and tight antagonist muscle group.

Strengthening and stretching exercises have been prescribed accordingly. It is

implied that strengthening exercises will encourage adaptive shortening of the

muscle-tendon length, reposition skeletal segments, and produce static posture

realignment.

A review of the literature has found a lack of reliable, valid data

collected in controlled settings to support the contention that exercise will

correct existing postural deviations. Likewise, objective data to indicate that

exercise will lead to postural deviations are lacking. It is likely that

exercise programs are of insufficient duration and frequency to induce adaptive

changes in muscle-tendon length. Additionally, any adaptations from restricted

range-of-movement exercise would likely be offset by daily living

activities that frequently require the body segments to go through full ranges

of motion.

INTRODUCTION

Static posture refers to the alignment and maintenance of body

segments in certain positions, such as standing, lying, or sitting .

Considerable deviations from optimal posture may be aesthetically unpleasant,

adversely influence muscle efficiency, and predispose individuals to

musculoskeletal or neurological pathologic conditions.

It has been stated that if body segments are held out of alignment

for extended periods, the muscles will rest in a shortened or lengthened

position and over time adaptive shortening or lengthening may result. Adaptive

shortened muscles are described as tight and strong, maintaining the opposing

muscles in a lengthened and weakened position . Such changes in resting muscle

length may influence posture alignment.

It has also been postulated that adaptive muscle shortening may

result from overuse of a muscle, particularly in a shortened range. At times,

claims are made that a muscular imbalance from excessively working one muscle

group will lead to postural deterioration. An example is when the chest muscles

are overworked and there is an imbalance with the back muscles, allegedly

leading to poor, rounded posture.......

Does an increase in muscular strength allow a better posture to be

held? If this were the case, it would not be unreasonable to expect that

individuals with poor posture had weak muscles; however, this is not the general

finding....

........ another study, examining 90 healthy older adults ....

demonstrated that abdominal muscle strength (supine straight leg lowering test)

was not significantly associated with lumbar lordosis.....

Holding a posture for a long period requires constant low-level

neural input to maintain a muscular contraction of the postural muscles (if

indeed muscle activity is required). In light of this knowledge, it would seem

that muscular endurance would be a more appropriate physical quality than

maximal strength in the maintenance of " correct " posture. A recent study

investigated the association between abdominal muscle endurance and lumbar

posture. No significant relationship was detected. However, the study was flawed

by methodological limitations. Lumbar posture of 23 young elite gymnasts

and 28 controls was subjectively assessed as lordotic, sway-back, or ideal.

Isometric abdominal muscle endurance was measured as the time

subjects could maintain certain supine postures while contacting their

abdominals to press their lower back against a pressure cushion. Reliability and

validity for the tests were not reported........

Many studies (particular the early ones) have looked at the

relationship with only one variable at a time rather than a combination of

strength and flexibility variables. A multivariate analysis has been performed ,

but this did not lend considerable support to the notion that lumbar lordosis is

significantly associated with combined abdominal muscular weakness and tight

erector spinae and hip flexors.

Analysis did not reveal a multivariate model for women. For men, the

multivariate analysis indicated that standing lumbar lordosis was

weakly associated with length of abdominals (not abdominal weakness) and 1-joint

hip flexor muscle length (but not back muscle length) and physical activity

level (R2 0.38). The authors of this study concluded that the use of abdominal

muscle strengthening exercises or stretching exercises of the back and 1-joint

hip flexors to correct faulty posture should be questioned.........

It should be pointed out that a change in sarcomere number or muscle

fiber length might not be proportional to changes in the whole muscle-

tendon length. This is crucial when considering the potential for postural

realignment through adaptive changes. There may be no great change in muscle

fiber length but a considerable change in tendon length. Results from animal

research indicated that muscle-tendon shortening of rabbit soleus as a result of

immobilization was primarily (73%) because of adaptations of the

tendon rest length.

It would appear that immobilization can produce adaptive changes in

muscle-tendon length. In relation to immobilization of human body

segments to achieve postural realignment, there are 2 potential difficulties. It

may not be practical for an individual to wear a brace or taping for a

considerable period.

The other potential problem is once the immobilization is ceased what

prevents the muscle-tendon from returning to its original length? If

an individual still has the ability to move the body segment throughout its full

ROM during daily activities, the ROM the muscle is subjected to would be

counterproductive to the attempt to shorten the muscle. Support for this notion

comes from the finding of the rapid readjustment of cat soleus muscle fiber

length to normal after 4 weeks of remobilization. These muscle fibers had

previously been shortened by 4 weeks of immobilization preceding the

remobilization...............

In a review of intervention programs for scoliosis and kyphosis ,

doubt was cast on the usefulness of exercises to correct these postural

deviations. It was suggested that the forces generated by corrective exercise

are usually low in amplitude, frequency, and duration and therefore not

sufficient to promote a permanent change in muscle length. A possible benefit of

an exercise program may be to re-educate the patient to be able to adopt more

optimal postureduring daily activities. In turn, this may re-educate the muscles

and place them in a better position for long periods, which may induce a change

in muscle. This is somewhat related to the principle, which involves

the enhancement of proprioceptive awareness of the body and inhibition of

" inappropriate " muscle activity to establish

certain postures and movement patterns. Unfortunately, there are a lack of

objective data from controlled studies evaluating the effectiveness of this

method for posture realignment........

A very recent study investigated the influence of a 6-week

strengthening and stretching program on scapula posture of 20 asymptomatic

subjects with abducted scapulae. Subjects were considered to possess abducted

scapulae if the shoulder joint was clearly anterior to a plumb line aligned with

the ear

lobe..... Scapula position and orientation were determined by a

computerized 3-dimensional electromechanical digitizer (Metrecom). This device

used a linkage arm with position senses and a probe tip. The probe was placed on

landmarks on the scapula and vertebral column and captured location coordinate

data. This information was used to define scapula position and orientation. The

reliability of the Metrecom was determined by measurements taken on 14 subjects

at least 7 days apart. The average ICC (intraclass correlation coefficients) and

SEM for measurements (statistical measures) defining scapula position and

orientation were 0.85 and 1.4 degs, respectively. The validity of the device was

not reported.

'Theraband' rubber tubing was used to perform strengthening exercises

for the scapular retractors and elevators and for the shoulder abductors and

external rotators. Exercises were conducted 3 times per week. One set of 10

repetitions for one session was conducted in the first 2 weeks and 5 more

repetitions were added every week. No strength measure of the scapular

retractors was reported. It is unclear as to how much the exercise program

influenced the strength of the retractors. The stretching consisted of bilateral

horizontal shoulder extension. The stretch was performed 10 times for 10

seconds, adding 5 more repetitions every 2 weeks. No measures

of flexibility were reported. After the 6 weeks, no change in scapula

resting posture was noted. The findings of this relatively short-term study

question the effectiveness of corrective exercises for abducted scapulae.......

Conclusion

Future research should address the limitations identified in some of

the studies. Given the available evidence, it is questionable as to

whether resistance training alone will produce an adaptive shortening of a

muscle and hence elicit postural changes. Even if the tight agonist is

lengthened by a stretching program, there is minimal evidence to suggest that

resistance training of the antagonist will cause adaptive shortening and a

subsequent change in static posture. It appears that the frequency and duration

of exercise programs are inefficient to produce adaptive shortening of muscles.

Even if individuals could exercise long enough in a restricted ROM, any

potential length adaptations would probably be offset by daily living

activities that often require full ROM.

Practical Applications

Based on the review of existing literature, it is inadvisable to

strongly promote strengthening exercises to correct postural malalignments, such

as abducted scapulae, excessive lumbar lordosis, scoliosis, or kyphosis.

Furthermore, the fear of developing static postural deviations from exercising

is not supported by objective data. >

==============

A Big Mistake

http://barrettdorko.com/a_big_mistake.htm

Barrett L. Dorko, P.T.

Physical therapy, like any other discipline, has its share of dearly

held beliefs. Perhaps none is stronger than the notion that static

and dynamic postures are directly related to muscular strength.

This is not true. The following references and commentary from peer-

reviewed literature support my contention that strength and posture

are unrelated.

Relationships between lumbar lordosis, pelvic tilt and abdominal

muscle performance Rothstein et.al. Physical Therapy vol. 67/No. 4

1987

This is the classic by the man who now edits the APTA Journal. It

showed for the first time (it hadn't been studied before)

that " lumbar lordosis, pelvic tilt, and abdominal muscle function

during normal standing are not related. "

Relationship between performance of selected scapular muscles and

scapular abduction in standing subjects DiVeta et.al. Physical

Therapy Vol. 70, no. 8/August 1990

This concludes: " The results indicate that no relationship exists

between the position of the scapula in standing subjects and the

muscular force by the middle trapezius and pectoralis minor muscles. "

My personal favorites are from Levine, PhD. PT at UT

Chattanooga. In a personal communication he writes: " In a study

published in 1997 in Physiotherapy Theory and Practice, not only did

we not find any correlation between muscle strength and posture pre-

intervention, but we strengthened weak muscles (abdominals) for eight

weeks (as well as prescribing full exercise programs intended to

alter pelvic tilt and lumbar lordosis) and found that after an

intensive eight week course of PT (3x/week supervised with home

program bid), posture (pelvic tilt and lumbar lordosis) had not

changed at all. We later studied these variables dynamically using

specially designed rigs for the Vicon motion analysis system and

again found no correlations between muscle strength and posture

dynamically (walking). "

See The effect of abdominal muscle strengthening on pelvic tilt and

lumbar lordosis Levine D, et al Physiotherapy Theory and Practice

(1997) 13, 217-226

See also Static and dynamic relationships between pelvic tilt, lumbar

lordosis and abdominal muscle performance Levine D, et al Physical

Therapy 76:s74; 1996

As of this writing (March, 2000), the most recent study I can find on

the subject is Lumbar Lordosis and Pelvic Inclination in Adults With

Chronic Low Back Pain Youdas et al Physical Therapy vol. 80. no.3

March 2000

Its conclusion reads in part " …the magnitude of the lumbar lordosis

and pelvic inclination in standing is not associated with the force

production of the abdominal muscles.

I would be glad to include here any research to the contrary, but I

haven't been able to find any. If anybody knows of some, please

contact me.

============

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

[Guest guest]

,

There a 3 ways I determine if the athlete has abnormal posture.

The first, easiest, and least invasive way is to simple use a plumb

line and have them stand directly in front of it and to the side of

it. Any deviations from the A.P. and lateral positions will show up

clearly when an athlete is placed upon a plumb line.

In the lateral view, if the neck has abnormal posture, the plumb

line will lay behind the ear instead of directly down the middle of

it.

With the lateral view, if the low back has abnormal posture, the

plumb line will lay posterior of the midline of the Greater

Trochanter.

Second, I will analyze X-rays if the athlete has already had them

taken or an MRI. Usually the MRI is only of the low back or the

cervical spine. So it is generally less global but can also be

great for showing high signal contrast on a T1 T2 image for disc

protrusions or nerve impingment.

Third, if no X-rays or MRI's have been taken I will take them myself

and analyze both the neck and lower back and compare them to AMA

guidelines for proper curvatures and A.P. alignment. For those

wanting to know what those guidelines are I recommend researching

and or contacting the AMA for this information.

As far as substantiating my claims....I would simply refer that to

Head Coach Steve Kizer of Skyview High School. He can give you all

the substanitaing you want. I simply dont want to get into

promoting what I do. I am strictly here to tell my story so that

others may apply what they have learned or change their outlook on

training of the spine. Coach Kizer and the athletes have all the pre

and post numbers on the sit & reach, 40 times, vertical jump, squat,

and power cleans. His home number is for those who

wish to verify.

The exercises I incorporate are the ones that Dr. Scherger has

developed with his equipment, nothing more or nothing less. I am not

her to promote that either so that is all I will say on that aspect.

Forbes

Director of Player Development

Athletic Spinal Fitness Institute

Ridgefield, Wa

>

>

>

> > To me it is obvious.....change the posture so that the hamstrings

> > are firing appropriately so that they are not chronically

fatigued

> > and tight! Eliminate the reason for the chronic overuse and

prevent

> > the transformation of fast twitch into slow twitch.

> >

> > I am curious if other have heard or read this book, and their

> > insight on my post.

> >

> > I have found in my training of athletes that changing this

posture

> > has directly lead to increasing flexibility and speed without

> > training the muscles. I had athletes who did not do ANY squats

or

> > powercleans for 9 weeks.....then come back to those

> > exercises.....and improve on average 60 lbs. on the squat and 30

lbs

> > on the power cleans. These high school athletes are an example I

> > feel of exactly what Mr. Leiber states in his book about the

> > transformation process and the ability of it to reverse back.

>

> ***

> Could you possibly explain in detail and provide evidence to

> substantiate your claims? What type of screening did you use to

> determine " abnormal " posture? Furthermore, what type

of " corrective "

> exercises did you use?

>

> The following information may add to the discussion:

> =======

>

> The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 15, No. 3,

> pp. 385-390.

>

> A Review of Resistance Exercise and Posture Realignment

>

> <Exercise has been promoted in an attempt to correct postural

> deviations, such as excessive lumbar lordosis, scoliosis,

kyphosis, and abducted scapulae. One of the assumed causes of these

conditions is a weak and lengthened agonist muscle group combined

with a strong and tight antagonist muscle group. Strengthening and

stretching exercises have been prescribed accordingly. It is implied

that strengthening exercises will encourage adaptive shortening of

the muscle-tendon length, reposition skeletal segments, and produce

static posture realignment.

>

> A review of the literature has found a lack of reliable, valid data

> collected in controlled settings to support the contention that

exercise will correct existing postural deviations. Likewise,

objective data to indicate that exercise will lead to postural

deviations are lacking. It is likely that exercise programs are of

insufficient duration and frequency to induce adaptive changes in

muscle-tendon length. Additionally, any adaptations from restricted

range-of-movement exercise would likely be offset by daily living

> activities that frequently require the body segments to go through

full ranges of motion.

>

> INTRODUCTION

>

> Static posture refers to the alignment and maintenance of body

> segments in certain positions, such as standing, lying, or

sitting . Considerable deviations from optimal posture may be

aesthetically unpleasant, adversely influence muscle efficiency, and

predispose individuals to musculoskeletal or neurological pathologic

conditions.

>

> It has been stated that if body segments are held out of alignment

> for extended periods, the muscles will rest in a shortened or

lengthened position and over time adaptive shortening or lengthening

may result. Adaptive shortened muscles are described as tight and

strong, maintaining the opposing muscles in a lengthened and

weakened position . Such changes in resting muscle length may

influence posture alignment.

>

> It has also been postulated that adaptive muscle shortening may

> result from overuse of a muscle, particularly in a shortened

range. At times, claims are made that a muscular imbalance from

excessively working one muscle group will lead to postural

deterioration. An example is when the chest muscles are overworked

and there is an imbalance with the back muscles, allegedly leading

to poor, rounded posture.......

>

> Does an increase in muscular strength allow a better posture to be

> held? If this were the case, it would not be unreasonable to

expect that individuals with poor posture had weak muscles; however,

this is not the general

> finding....

>

> ....... another study, examining 90 healthy older adults ....

> demonstrated that abdominal muscle strength (supine straight leg

lowering test) was not significantly associated with lumbar

lordosis.....

>

> Holding a posture for a long period requires constant low-level

> neural input to maintain a muscular contraction of the postural

muscles (if indeed muscle activity is required). In light of this

knowledge, it would seem that muscular endurance would be a more

appropriate physical quality than maximal strength in the

maintenance of " correct " posture. A recent study investigated the

association between abdominal muscle endurance and lumbar posture.

No significant relationship was detected. However, the study was

flawed by methodological limitations. Lumbar posture of 23 young

elite gymnasts

> and 28 controls was subjectively assessed as lordotic, sway-back,

or ideal. Isometric abdominal muscle endurance was measured as the

time

> subjects could maintain certain supine postures while contacting

their abdominals to press their lower back against a pressure

cushion. Reliability and validity for the tests were not

reported........

>

> Many studies (particular the early ones) have looked at the

> relationship with only one variable at a time rather than a

combination of strength and flexibility variables. A multivariate

analysis has been performed , but this did not lend considerable

support to the notion that lumbar lordosis is significantly

associated with combined abdominal muscular weakness and tight

> erector spinae and hip flexors.

>

> Analysis did not reveal a multivariate model for women. For men,

the

> multivariate analysis indicated that standing lumbar lordosis was

> weakly associated with length of abdominals (not abdominal

weakness) and 1-joint hip flexor muscle length (but not back muscle

length) and physical activity level (R2 0.38). The authors of this

study concluded that the use of abdominal muscle strengthening

exercises or stretching exercises of the back and 1-joint hip

flexors to correct faulty posture should be questioned.........

>

> It should be pointed out that a change in sarcomere number or

muscle

> fiber length might not be proportional to changes in the whole

muscle-

> tendon length. This is crucial when considering the potential for

postural realignment through adaptive changes. There may be no great

change in muscle fiber length but a considerable change in tendon

length. Results from animal research indicated that muscle-tendon

shortening of rabbit soleus as a result of immobilization was

primarily (73%) because of adaptations of the

> tendon rest length.

>

> It would appear that immobilization can produce adaptive changes in

> muscle-tendon length. In relation to immobilization of human body

> segments to achieve postural realignment, there are 2 potential

difficulties. It may not be practical for an individual to wear a

brace or taping for a considerable period.

>

> The other potential problem is once the immobilization is ceased

what

> prevents the muscle-tendon from returning to its original length?

If

> an individual still has the ability to move the body segment

throughout its full ROM during daily activities, the ROM the muscle

is subjected to would be counterproductive to the attempt to shorten

the muscle. Support for this notion comes from the finding of the

rapid readjustment of cat soleus muscle fiber length to normal after

4 weeks of remobilization. These muscle fibers had previously been

shortened by 4 weeks of immobilization preceding the

remobilization...............

>

> In a review of intervention programs for scoliosis and kyphosis ,

> doubt was cast on the usefulness of exercises to correct these

postural deviations. It was suggested that the forces generated by

corrective exercise are usually low in amplitude, frequency, and

duration and therefore not sufficient to promote a permanent change

in muscle length. A possible benefit of an exercise program may be

to re-educate the patient to be able to adopt more optimal

postureduring daily activities. In turn, this may re-educate the

muscles and place them in a better position for long periods, which

may induce a change in muscle. This is somewhat related to the

principle, which involves the enhancement of

proprioceptive awareness of the body and inhibition

of " inappropriate " muscle activity to establish

> certain postures and movement patterns. Unfortunately, there are a

lack of objective data from controlled studies evaluating the

effectiveness of this method for posture realignment........

>

> A very recent study investigated the influence of a 6-week

> strengthening and stretching program on scapula posture of 20

asymptomatic subjects with abducted scapulae. Subjects were

considered to possess abducted scapulae if the shoulder joint was

clearly anterior to a plumb line aligned with the ear

> lobe..... Scapula position and orientation were determined by a

> computerized 3-dimensional electromechanical digitizer (Metrecom).

This device used a linkage arm with position senses and a probe tip.

The probe was placed on landmarks on the scapula and vertebral

column and captured location coordinate data. This information was

used to define scapula position and orientation. The reliability of

the Metrecom was determined by measurements taken on 14 subjects at

least 7 days apart. The average ICC (intraclass correlation

coefficients) and SEM for measurements (statistical measures)

defining scapula position and orientation were 0.85 and 1.4 degs,

respectively. The validity of the device was not reported.

>

> 'Theraband' rubber tubing was used to perform strengthening

exercises

> for the scapular retractors and elevators and for the shoulder

abductors and external rotators. Exercises were conducted 3 times

per week. One set of 10 repetitions for one session was conducted in

the first 2 weeks and 5 more repetitions were added every week. No

strength measure of the scapular retractors was reported. It is

unclear as to how much the exercise program influenced the strength

of the retractors. The stretching consisted of bilateral horizontal

shoulder extension. The stretch was performed 10 times for 10

seconds, adding 5 more repetitions every 2 weeks. No measures

> of flexibility were reported. After the 6 weeks, no change in

scapula

> resting posture was noted. The findings of this relatively short-

term study question the effectiveness of corrective exercises for

abducted scapulae.......

>

> Conclusion

>

> Future research should address the limitations identified in some

of

> the studies. Given the available evidence, it is questionable as to

> whether resistance training alone will produce an adaptive

shortening of a muscle and hence elicit postural changes. Even if

the tight agonist is lengthened by a stretching program, there is

minimal evidence to suggest that resistance training of the

antagonist will cause adaptive shortening and a subsequent change in

static posture. It appears that the frequency and duration of

exercise programs are inefficient to produce adaptive shortening of

muscles. Even if individuals could exercise long enough in a

restricted ROM, any

> potential length adaptations would probably be offset by daily

living

> activities that often require full ROM.

>

> Practical Applications

>

> Based on the review of existing literature, it is inadvisable to

> strongly promote strengthening exercises to correct postural

malalignments, such as abducted scapulae, excessive lumbar lordosis,

scoliosis, or kyphosis. Furthermore, the fear of developing static

postural deviations from exercising is not supported by objective

data. >

>

> ==============

> A Big Mistake

>

> http://barrettdorko.com/a_big_mistake.htm

>

> Barrett L. Dorko, P.T.

>

> Physical therapy, like any other discipline, has its share of

dearly

> held beliefs. Perhaps none is stronger than the notion that static

> and dynamic postures are directly related to muscular strength.

>

> This is not true. The following references and commentary from

peer-

> reviewed literature support my contention that strength and posture

> are unrelated.

>

> Relationships between lumbar lordosis, pelvic tilt and abdominal

> muscle performance Rothstein et.al. Physical Therapy vol. 67/No. 4

> 1987

>

> This is the classic by the man who now edits the APTA Journal. It

> showed for the first time (it hadn't been studied before)

> that " lumbar lordosis, pelvic tilt, and abdominal muscle function

> during normal standing are not related. "

>

> Relationship between performance of selected scapular muscles and

> scapular abduction in standing subjects DiVeta et.al. Physical

> Therapy Vol. 70, no. 8/August 1990

>

> This concludes: " The results indicate that no relationship exists

> between the position of the scapula in standing subjects and the

> muscular force by the middle trapezius and pectoralis minor

muscles. "

>

> My personal favorites are from Levine, PhD. PT at UT

> Chattanooga. In a personal communication he writes: " In a study

> published in 1997 in Physiotherapy Theory and Practice, not only

did

> we not find any correlation between muscle strength and posture

pre-

> intervention, but we strengthened weak muscles (abdominals) for

eight

> weeks (as well as prescribing full exercise programs intended to

> alter pelvic tilt and lumbar lordosis) and found that after an

> intensive eight week course of PT (3x/week supervised with home

> program bid), posture (pelvic tilt and lumbar lordosis) had not

> changed at all. We later studied these variables dynamically using

> specially designed rigs for the Vicon motion analysis system and

> again found no correlations between muscle strength and posture

> dynamically (walking). "

>

> See The effect of abdominal muscle strengthening on pelvic tilt and

> lumbar lordosis Levine D, et al Physiotherapy Theory and Practice

> (1997) 13, 217-226

>

> See also Static and dynamic relationships between pelvic tilt,

lumbar

> lordosis and abdominal muscle performance Levine D, et al Physical

> Therapy 76:s74; 1996

>

> As of this writing (March, 2000), the most recent study I can find

on

> the subject is Lumbar Lordosis and Pelvic Inclination in Adults

With

> Chronic Low Back Pain Youdas et al Physical Therapy vol. 80. no.3

> March 2000

>

> Its conclusion reads in part " …the magnitude of the lumbar lordosis

> and pelvic inclination in standing is not associated with the force

> production of the abdominal muscles.

>

> I would be glad to include here any research to the contrary, but I

> haven't been able to find any. If anybody knows of some, please

> contact me.

>

> ============

> Carruthers

> Wakefield, UK

>

[Guest guest]

Forbes wrote:

As far as substantiating my claims....I would simply refer that to

Head Coach Steve Kizer of Skyview High School. He can give you all

the substantiating you want. I simply don't want to get into

promoting what I do.

writes:

Casler's comments are worth repeating here:

" I think it is the responsibility of a poster to be able to

substantiate or at least offer precise reasoning, method, and

mechanism when claims like these are made, rather than " pointing " to

a fuzzy source, and assuming that will suffice. "

Forbes wrote:

I am strictly here to tell my story so that others may apply what

they have learned or change their outlook on training of the spine.

Coach Kizer and the athletes have all the pre and post numbers on the

sit & reach, 40 times, vertical jump, squat, and power cleans. His

home number is for those who wish to verify.

writes:

One is more than willing to alter one's " outlook " given that

sufficient evidence is provided to verify such statement. Surely, as a

profession we should always be able to answer our performers (cardiac rehab

patients to world class athletes) when they ask the question: " Why are we doing

this? " However, as is stated in the article's by Goodman et al. and Dorko:

[A Review of Resistance Exercise and Posture Realignment

Exercise has been promoted in an attempt to correct postural

deviations, such as excessive lumbar lordosis, scoliosis kyphosis,

and abducted scapulae. One of the assumed causes of these conditions

is a weak and lengthened agonist muscle group combined with a strong

and tight antagonist muscle group. Strengthening and stretching

exercises have been prescribed accordingly. It is implied that

strengthening exercises will encourage adaptive shortening of the

muscle-tendon length, reposition skeletal segments, and produce

static posture realignment.

Practical Applications

Based on the review of existing literature, it is inadvisable to

strongly promote strengthening exercises to correct postural

malalignments, such as abducted scapulae, excessive lumbar lordosis

scoliosis, or kyphosis. Furthermore, the fear of developing static

postural deviations from exercising is not supported by objective

data.]

Barrett Dorko wrote:

" " Physical therapy, like any other discipline, has its share of

dearly held beliefs. Perhaps none is stronger than the notion that

static and dynamic postures are directly related to muscular strength.

This is not true. The following references and commentary from peer-

reviewed literature support my contention that strength and posture

are unrelated. " "

===========

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I came across some extremely interesting literature years ago from

> Leiber, Ph. D, Associate Professor at U.C.S.D. and his book,

>

> " Skeletal Muscle Structure & Function "

> Implications for rehabilitation and sports medicine

>

> and how he discussed fast twitch muscle transformation into red slow

> twitch muscle from chronic low grade stimulation or firing of these

> tissues.

>

> The emphasis was on how little of extra stimulation could cause this

> transformation, and how quickly this could occurr. This study was

> done using EMG studies on cats and rats, using denervated muscles

> such as the solues....with muscle biopsy and staining of the tissues

> to clinically demonstrate the acutal physiological transformation.

> There were also literature from others who did studies on humans as

> well.

>

> In a nutshell, Postural muscles are made up of mainly slow twitch,

> and these include but are not limited to longissimus and

> transversospinalis (erector spinae) gastrocnemius, and rectus

> femoris.

****I posted your summary of the Somasimple forum as there are some

superb clinicians on there (http://www.somasimple.com/). Here is a

reply from one of the members:

---

I think this point in Forbe's underlying rationale in the first

post must be addressed:

Quote:

In a nutshell, Postural muscles are made up of mainly slow twitch,

and these include but are not limited to longissimus and

transversospinalis (erector spinae) gastrocnemius, and rectus

femoris.

The editors of Gray's Anatomy would beg to differ. On page 754, they

discuss muscle fibre. They talk about muscle fibres, found in various

species (very important):

twitch type, the sort entirely comprising mammalian skeletal muscle,

can conduct action potentials, some (red) contain myoglobin and lots

of mitochondria, lots of capillaries, and another variety(white) of

twitch that meets its needs through anaerobic glycoloysis - prompt

access to energy stores but less efficient and less sustainable.

Gray's says,

Quote:

In man, all muscles are of the mixed variety, in which fibres that

are specialized for aerobic working conditions intermingle with

fibres of a more anaerobic or intermediate metabolic character. These

different types of fibre are not readily distinguished in sections

stained by conventional histological techniques, but they emerge

quite clearly when more specialized histochemical techniques are

used...(that stain mitochondria)

Gray's also talks about tonic fibres, or slow contracting, unable to

propagate action potentials over their membranes, comprising postural

muscles - of birds and reptiles, " uncommon in man and other mammals,

where they are restricted to the extrinsic ocular muscles, the

stapedius muscle of the inner ear and the intrafusal muscle fibres

off the neuromuscular spindle. "

My point is that I don't think it's a good idea to set up an exercise

theory that doesn't have this fundamental understanding at its heart.

If all human muscles contain both types of twitch fibre and tonic

fibres are found only in human eye muscles and inner ears, and in the

involuntary efferents to muscle, Forbes need something more

solid upon which to build his rationale than something that is

factually incorrect, misleading, or maybe just misinterpreted from

Leiber. It's a huge theoretical mistake that in humans there

are some muscles categorically different from others.

===============

Any comments?

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK