Re: New discovered role of Vitamin D3 to moderate Immune System

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

I've found this very interesting, but I wonder if you are able to

comment on a question I posted a week or so ago which unfortunately

rendered no replies?

I note that this 'D3 brake' seems to be a mechanism responsible for

holding back macrophage activity 'soon after their activation' - does

this fit in with the idea that this level of activation is at a Th1

immune response? The thing that puzzles and concerns me is that at one

site about D3 it said that D3 can change the immune response from Th1 to

Th2. Now if most of us with chronic disease are exhibiting Th2 already,

then maybe the addition of D3 could actually be to our detriment?

Associated with this; I have found that I cannot take D3 which has been

irradiated from ergocalciferol and I'm back on my Biocare D3 (from

lanolin) drops, which have low international units but much greater

absorption. I seem to be finding that my temperature (my main problem

in my life right now) is, if anything more volatile whilst taking them.

Is this a likely reaction from your experience with your protocol, one

that perhaps may ease with use, or just co-incidence do you think? Could

it be that taking D3 is just exacerbating a possibly already dominant

Th2 response?

Your comments on these 2 questions would be much appreciated.

Rosie

" How a newly discovered mechanism keeps inflammation under control - "

" The purpose may be suppression of the inflammatory reaction, before

it overshoots the mark " . If this would happen, it could prove to be

more dangerous to the organism than the invader itself. Uncontrolled,

activated macrophages can cause severe damage and even total

destruction of body tissue. Thus, the incorporated vitamin D3 brake

makes sure that the body's own body guards are kept back soon after

their activation. "

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29752

" In conclusion, our data indicate that the production of 1,25(OH)2D3

by IFN--stimulated macrophages might be an important negative

feedback mechanism to control innate and inflammatory responses of

activated macrophages. "

http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/2005-03-1029v1

This suggests that low Vitamin-D levels may play a significant role

in Autoimmune system, because it's absence allows the immune-system

to stay upregulated.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rosie,

Vitamin D3/calcitriol decreases BOTH TH1 and TH2 responses...

" Furthermore, calcitriol also decreased the secretion of IL-2 and

IFN-gamma by Th1 clones, and of IL-4 by Th2 clones. "

Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 2002 May;128(1):33-41.

Regulation of cytokine production in human peripheral blood

mononuclear cells and allergen-specific th cell clones by 1alpha,25-

dihydroxyvitamin D3. http://russiantortoise.org/vitamin_d3.htm

Thus the MS Encyclopedia is correct in stating:

" On the other hand VD3 actually increases the immune response by

macrophage against bacteria. In some studies serum levels of 1,25

(OH)/2D3 coincide with survival rates among those infected by HIV.

MS is typically characterized as presenting an elevated ratio of Th1

to Th2 cells. VD3 at least partially corrects that imbalance "

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/VitaminD3.html

The problem is that an engineering type can miss the complexities...

TH1/Th2 ratio decrease IMPLYING more TH2 response is WRONG. High TH1

is decreased significantly, so the ratio is decreased. It appears to

be also true that a High TH2 response will also be decreased by D3.

Thus a TH2 bias disease would, like a TH1 disease, move towards the

normal ratio.

Several supplements and drugs have the same characteristic: causes a

normalization to happen, not an absolute shift in one direction.

Hope that helps!

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> I've found this very interesting, but I wonder if you are able to

> comment on a question I posted a week or so ago which unfortunately

> rendered no replies?

>

> I note that this 'D3 brake' seems to be a mechanism responsible for

> holding back macrophage activity 'soon after their activation' -

does

> this fit in with the idea that this level of activation is at a Th1

> immune response? The thing that puzzles and concerns me is that at

one

> site about D3 it said that D3 can change the immune response from

Th1 to

> Th2. Now if most of us with chronic disease are exhibiting Th2

already,

> then maybe the addition of D3 could actually be to our detriment?

>

> Associated with this; I have found that I cannot take D3 which has

been

> irradiated from ergocalciferol and I'm back on my Biocare D3 (from

> lanolin) drops, which have low international units but much greater

> absorption. I seem to be finding that my temperature (my main

problem

> in my life right now) is, if anything more volatile whilst taking

them.

> Is this a likely reaction from your experience with your protocol,

one

> that perhaps may ease with use, or just co-incidence do you think?

Could

> it be that taking D3 is just exacerbating a possibly already

dominant

> Th2 response?

>

> Your comments on these 2 questions would be much appreciated.

>

> Rosie

>

>

>

> " How a newly discovered mechanism keeps inflammation under control -

"

>

>

> " The purpose may be suppression of the inflammatory reaction,

before

> it overshoots the mark " . If this would happen, it could prove to be

> more dangerous to the organism than the invader itself.

Uncontrolled,

> activated macrophages can cause severe damage and even total

> destruction of body tissue. Thus, the incorporated vitamin D3 brake

> makes sure that the body's own body guards are kept back soon after

> their activation. "

>

> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29752

>

>

>

> " In conclusion, our data indicate that the production of 1,25(OH)

2D3

> by IFN--stimulated macrophages might be an important negative

> feedback mechanism to control innate and inflammatory responses of

> activated macrophages. "

> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/2005-03-1029v1

>

> This suggests that low Vitamin-D levels may play a significant role

> in Autoimmune system, because it's absence allows the immune-system

> to stay upregulated.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Well, Ken, I for one will just take your word for it, and thank you. And

take some D3.

Adrienne

Re: New discovered role of Vitamin D3 to

moderate Immune System

Hi Rosie,

Vitamin D3/calcitriol decreases BOTH TH1 and TH2 responses...

" Furthermore, calcitriol also decreased the secretion of IL-2 and

IFN-gamma by Th1 clones, and of IL-4 by Th2 clones. "

Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 2002 May;128(1):33-41.

Regulation of cytokine production in human peripheral blood

mononuclear cells and allergen-specific th cell clones by 1alpha,25-

dihydroxyvitamin D3. http://russiantortoise.org/vitamin_d3.htm

Thus the MS Encyclopedia is correct in stating:

" On the other hand VD3 actually increases the immune response by

macrophage against bacteria. In some studies serum levels of 1,25

(OH)/2D3 coincide with survival rates among those infected by HIV.

MS is typically characterized as presenting an elevated ratio of Th1

to Th2 cells. VD3 at least partially corrects that imbalance "

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/VitaminD3.html

The problem is that an engineering type can miss the complexities...

TH1/Th2 ratio decrease IMPLYING more TH2 response is WRONG. High TH1

is decreased significantly, so the ratio is decreased. It appears to

be also true that a High TH2 response will also be decreased by D3.

Thus a TH2 bias disease would, like a TH1 disease, move towards the

normal ratio.

Several supplements and drugs have the same characteristic: causes a

normalization to happen, not an absolute shift in one direction.

Hope that helps!

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> I've found this very interesting, but I wonder if you are able to

> comment on a question I posted a week or so ago which unfortunately

> rendered no replies?

>

> I note that this 'D3 brake' seems to be a mechanism responsible for

> holding back macrophage activity 'soon after their activation' -

does

> this fit in with the idea that this level of activation is at a Th1

> immune response? The thing that puzzles and concerns me is that at

one

> site about D3 it said that D3 can change the immune response from

Th1 to

> Th2. Now if most of us with chronic disease are exhibiting Th2

already,

> then maybe the addition of D3 could actually be to our detriment?

>

> Associated with this; I have found that I cannot take D3 which has

been

> irradiated from ergocalciferol and I'm back on my Biocare D3 (from

> lanolin) drops, which have low international units but much greater

> absorption. I seem to be finding that my temperature (my main

problem

> in my life right now) is, if anything more volatile whilst taking

them.

> Is this a likely reaction from your experience with your protocol,

one

> that perhaps may ease with use, or just co-incidence do you think?

Could

> it be that taking D3 is just exacerbating a possibly already

dominant

> Th2 response?

>

> Your comments on these 2 questions would be much appreciated.

>

> Rosie

>

>

>

> " How a newly discovered mechanism keeps inflammation under control -

"

>

>

> " The purpose may be suppression of the inflammatory reaction,

before

> it overshoots the mark " . If this would happen, it could prove to be

> more dangerous to the organism than the invader itself.

Uncontrolled,

> activated macrophages can cause severe damage and even total

> destruction of body tissue. Thus, the incorporated vitamin D3 brake

> makes sure that the body's own body guards are kept back soon after

> their activation. "

>

> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29752

>

>

>

> " In conclusion, our data indicate that the production of 1,25(OH)

2D3

> by IFN--stimulated macrophages might be an important negative

> feedback mechanism to control innate and inflammatory responses of

> activated macrophages. "

> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/2005-03-1029v1

>

> This suggests that low Vitamin-D levels may play a significant role

> in Autoimmune system, because it's absence allows the immune-system

> to stay upregulated.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

Yes that does help a lot, thankyou. May I just ask one other question

of you?

I find it very difficult to take calcium, it makes me feel pretty yuk.

The Biocare D3 drops which I am taking don't require calcium to be taken

alongside them (I rang the company and checked). The suggestion is that

calcium absorption in the bone will be increased because of the D3.

Would lack of extra calcium affect the Th1/Th2 immune response ratios,

or is the main protagonist the D3 alone?

Rosie

Subject: Re: New discovered role of Vitamin D3 to

moderate Immune System

Hi Rosie,

Vitamin D3/calcitriol decreases BOTH TH1 and TH2 responses...

" Furthermore, calcitriol also decreased the secretion of IL-2 and

IFN-gamma by Th1 clones, and of IL-4 by Th2 clones. "

Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 2002 May;128(1):33-41.

Regulation of cytokine production in human peripheral blood

mononuclear cells and allergen-specific th cell clones by 1alpha,25-

dihydroxyvitamin D3. http://russiantortoise.org/vitamin_d3.htm

Thus the MS Encyclopedia is correct in stating:

" On the other hand VD3 actually increases the immune response by

macrophage against bacteria. In some studies serum levels of 1,25

(OH)/2D3 coincide with survival rates among those infected by HIV.

MS is typically characterized as presenting an elevated ratio of Th1

to Th2 cells. VD3 at least partially corrects that imbalance "

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/VitaminD3.html

The problem is that an engineering type can miss the complexities...

TH1/Th2 ratio decrease IMPLYING more TH2 response is WRONG. High TH1

is decreased significantly, so the ratio is decreased. It appears to

be also true that a High TH2 response will also be decreased by D3.

Thus a TH2 bias disease would, like a TH1 disease, move towards the

normal ratio.

Several supplements and drugs have the same characteristic: causes a

normalization to happen, not an absolute shift in one direction.

Hope that helps!

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> I've found this very interesting, but I wonder if you are able to

> comment on a question I posted a week or so ago which unfortunately

> rendered no replies?

>

> I note that this 'D3 brake' seems to be a mechanism responsible for

> holding back macrophage activity 'soon after their activation' -

does

> this fit in with the idea that this level of activation is at a Th1

> immune response? The thing that puzzles and concerns me is that at

one

> site about D3 it said that D3 can change the immune response from

Th1 to

> Th2. Now if most of us with chronic disease are exhibiting Th2

already,

> then maybe the addition of D3 could actually be to our detriment?

>

> Associated with this; I have found that I cannot take D3 which has

been

> irradiated from ergocalciferol and I'm back on my Biocare D3 (from

> lanolin) drops, which have low international units but much greater

> absorption. I seem to be finding that my temperature (my main

problem

> in my life right now) is, if anything more volatile whilst taking

them.

> Is this a likely reaction from your experience with your protocol,

one

> that perhaps may ease with use, or just co-incidence do you think?

Could

> it be that taking D3 is just exacerbating a possibly already

dominant

> Th2 response?

>

> Your comments on these 2 questions would be much appreciated.

>

> Rosie

>

>

>

> " How a newly discovered mechanism keeps inflammation under control -

"

>

>

> " The purpose may be suppression of the inflammatory reaction,

before

> it overshoots the mark " . If this would happen, it could prove to be

> more dangerous to the organism than the invader itself.

Uncontrolled,

> activated macrophages can cause severe damage and even total

> destruction of body tissue. Thus, the incorporated vitamin D3 brake

> makes sure that the body's own body guards are kept back soon after

> their activation. "

>

> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=29752

>

>

>

> " In conclusion, our data indicate that the production of 1,25(OH)

2D3

> by IFN--stimulated macrophages might be an important negative

> feedback mechanism to control innate and inflammatory responses of

> activated macrophages. "

> http://www.bloodjournal.org/cgi/content/abstract/2005-03-1029v1

>

> This suggests that low Vitamin-D levels may play a significant role

> in Autoimmune system, because it's absence allows the immune-system

> to stay upregulated.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with

> each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in

any

> treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

> " How a newly discovered mechanism keeps inflammation under

control - "

I was just about to point that one out also. And the text of the

study specifically refers to how it would affect granulomatous

diseases, such as sarcoidosis:

" The suppression of IFN-gamma-activation of macrophages by 1a,25(OH)

2D3 might be an important mechanism to prevent uncontrolled and

excessive reactions in local inflammatory environments. A tight

control of IFN-gamma responses is especially crucial for the outcome

of granulomatous diseases such as tuberculosis and sarcoidosis.

Here, unbalanced IFN-gamma responses can lead to granulomatous

necrosis and to severe tissue destruction. In addition, it is known

that excessive oxidative burst can lead to DNA damage and post-

granuloma tumor developmen. Thus, the synthesis of 1a,25(OH)2D3 by

granuloma-associated macrophages might be an important

autoregulatory feedback mechanism to prevent excessive inflammation.

The suppression of Th1-dominated responses by 1a,25(OH)2D3 during

autoimmune diseases in vivo is one of the well established features

of steroids. Based on our data, we can extend this general concept

of immunosuppression from Th1 cells and dendritic cells to mature,

Th1-activated macrophages. Since macrophages play also important

roles in several autoimmune diseases, this may be of special

clinical importance. "

[Guest guest]

Here's a clear and concise explanation of D terms: Cholecalciferol,

Calcidiol, Calcitriol, Ergocalciferol, etc.

http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/pharmocology.shtml

Sue ,

Upstate New York