Re: 's observations - I share Tony's skepticism

[Guest guest]

" Schaafsma " <compucruz@y...> wrote:

> I share your skepticism about this. Has anyone seen any sign that

> is having these blood samples screened for borrelial DNA? I

> have not.

Yeah, that's a good point. Any reason that wouldn't be fairly easy to

do? Certainly reassuring.

penny

[Guest guest]

One reason why Dr W wouldn't have blood screened for DNA is that the facility is not available in the uk ..Plus the fact that it's fairly clear UK & us medical services are not ready to recognise spirochete infections ..see below a letter to a leading consultant ..I eventually found a private accredited lab who could test ...my gut biopsy samples never made it there either despite assurances that they would be sent ..Dr denning acknowledged that i was heavily infected & knew I travelled to Spain to get fungal abx's ..

Here’s part of a letter to Dr Denning

It’s deeply worrying that the NHS cannot provide the PCR DNA recognition test, it’s used extensively in other

countries many of which were considered just a few years ago as being in the third world. The French have

been using the test for “Whipples’s” & Mycoplasma detection for the last ten years.[Medline 12959718]

[ Enc ] Couple that with the fact that PCR testing is a routine diagnostic tool used in veterinary medicine. In

fact many firms compete in offering the test. The NHS wrap the test up in mystery the official line is “It’s a

research tool” yet a DIY if you like test kit exists it can be purchased for on the spot PCR testing for mycoplasma

contamination of culture specimens .Considering the billions that have been poured into the NHS It’s a shocking situation especially when I learn

that only one key member of staff at Leeds was able to carry out PCR testing for “Whipple’s disease”. & Mycoplasma And he left three years ago.

The Pasteur-CERBA Laboratory Paris offer the test , the lab is of international renown. Why do you not use

their test facilities? I thought one of the advantages of being a member of the EEU is that we are able to share

facilities such as this .

My enforced self-treatment is an outrage. I am reduced to asking friends and family for left over antibiotics. Your suggestion that I nip over to Spain to buy antibiotics along with my anti-fungal medication turned into a necessity. although I was able to purchase drugs it wasn’t plain sailing, I was regarded with deep suspicion by the pharmacists and reminded that if I needed these drugs I ought to be in the care of a doctor. They have a point.

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of penny Sent: 05 September 2005 04:09infections Subject: [infections] Re: 's observations - I share Tony's skepticism" Schaafsma" <compucruz@y...> wrote:> I share your skepticism about this. Has anyone seen any sign that > is having these blood samples screened for borrelial DNA? I > have not.Yeah, that's a good point. Any reason that wouldn't be fairly easy to do? Certainly reassuring.penny

[Guest guest]

A lot is played out like conspiracy theories, my doctor point blanc

says if you get tested and the treatment offered is shit and doesn't

work how do you want me as a doctor to feel. We work with what works

in the patient, if this don't happen don't expect our support.Why

waste a doctors time and your money chasing things that have been

left behind years earlier in there offices due to poor performing

protocols and outcomes.

This is the strong feeling of a lot of medicine that only has the

conspiracy theorists to blame.The same applies to the live blood

people, the medical community can't be on side when you have 4

different things being interpreted and preached to the same patient.

My gripe is things are certain sizes and when your telling me a mini

minor is a mack truck your doing the same thing, not helping

yourself. I also know andy wright isn't do anything with

antimicrobials, he doesn't hand any out or ask if they improve his

patients?This fact alone left me pissed off, also the fact that he

works in a major hospital with a lab downstairs and never took the

time to go out bacteria busting also runs foul with me.

> > I share your skepticism about this. Has anyone seen any sign

that

> > is having these blood samples screened for borrelial

DNA? I

> > have not.

>

>

> Yeah, that's a good point. Any reason that wouldn't be fairly

easy to

> do? Certainly reassuring.

>

> penny

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AWs patients do use antibacterials Tony.

PCR is easy, I did one last week at my undergrad research mentorship.

Its just like baking cookies except the recipes in microliters and you

have to program the oven.

But its record in detecting Bb is spotty, if it were me I'd prefer to

use polyclonal fluorescent antibody instead. Which is even easier than

PCR.

[Guest guest]

<usenethod@y...> wrote:

> AWs patients do use antibacterials Tony.

Yeah, probably not the way Tony considers using antibacterials,

though. :-)

Is AW still txing with samento? My doc's all excited about samento

now. Ack. I feel like I'm being taken back in time. :-)

penny

[Guest guest]

Penny

He doesn't give antibiotics regardless of how you want to use them-

when my friend was working in close with him.

I believe lately he may be tinkering with giving them but he was a

supplement doctor before what has come in the last 18months.

> > AWs patients do use antibacterials Tony.

>

> Yeah, probably not the way Tony considers using antibacterials,

> though. :-)

>

> Is AW still txing with samento? My doc's all excited about samento

> now. Ack. I feel like I'm being taken back in time. :-)

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

I would want to use live cell microscopy .. We have to go back and

believe somone deciding to look for indications that we have been

afflicted may not be the best thing they ever decided to do in

medicine.Major systemic ilnesses caused by bacteria IMO are there to

be viewed there's not too many bacterial ilnesses that you can't

find.

Actually an egs. from a friend who's mother got very ill a long time

ago- This lady was loosing weight, vomiting, felt generally unwell,

the big disease of the time was tuberculosis, anyway's she's done

the mantoux skin prick and it's not showing, does the bronchial

culture and still nothing, it took a stomach culture and a good

doctor to reveal her tuberculosis.This doctor was a rearity because

he knew how important it was to have strategies as opposed to the

crap we have to contend with.

> AWs patients do use antibacterials Tony.

>

> PCR is easy, I did one last week at my undergrad research

mentorship.

> Its just like baking cookies except the recipes in microliters and

you

> have to program the oven.

>

> But its record in detecting Bb is spotty, if it were me I'd prefer

to

> use polyclonal fluorescent antibody instead. Which is even easier

than

> PCR.

[Guest guest]

Tony and Penny

AW does use ABx, he has used the Schardt protocol, is now using the

Weldon protocol for CP as well, and even the protocol that should not

be named. Not everyone can tolerate ABx especially when used long

term, so some of his patients opt for alternatives. He has used other

meds in the past, his approach would fit the integrated medicine

model.

AW will often opt for alternatives prior to using any ABX, the aim

lower the pathgogen and toxin loads first and because for some

patients they work without the need to resort to ABx at all. These

alternatives are not just antimicrobial they work as anti

inflammatories, immune modulators, and provide other benefits as

well. That's why samento is gaining popularity including its use as

an adjunct to ABx protocols.

Could it be the growing popularity of samento is based upon

observation and results rather than just being the latest fad?

Cheers, Tansy

> > > AWs patients do use antibacterials Tony.

> >

> > Yeah, probably not the way Tony considers using antibacterials,

> > though. :-)

> >

> > Is AW still txing with samento? My doc's all excited about

samento

> > now. Ack. I feel like I'm being taken back in time. :-)

> >

> > penny

[Guest guest]

Yeah, AW always seems at the leading edge, and it's amazing that he

doesn't get penalized for it. I'm glad he's a respectable doctor out

there doing things like the Stratton/Wheldon and Schardt protocols.

He sure doesn't waste anytime jumping into these things. At least it

seems he jumps into things that seem to be effective for a good

number of people, or are sceintifically sensible. I'm sure being

sick himself keeps him very motivated.

I do have doubts about Samento though, although I'm not claiming it

doesn't work or doesn't have a place. I tend to (usually) wait 6

months or so, to see how people are faring on something like this.

And it seems to me that people are building resistance to samento,

just as they do with other anti-microbials. There've also been

reports of tendon problems, but I can't tell if those are real or

perceived due to some coincidental factors based on the quinolone

issue. I can't even get any real answers from anyone in the Samento

community whether the tendon risk is legit, since Samento is a

quinolone and cipro and levaquin are flouroquinolones, which may

make a big difference. We know the flouroquinolones can cause tendon

damage, but can the plain old quinolones? Still, there ARE those

people who've taken Samento, complaining of tendon issues, as well

as relapse after some time (which is to be expected with mono-

therapy). My thinking is that Samento might be really good in

combination with other antibiotics. A multi-front attack. I'm still

interested in Samento, or maybe the natural tea, but I think the

limited research on Samento (conducted by financially interested

parties) is not all that complete.

I think my real concern with natural drugs like Samento, is the

perception that it's " okay " because it's " natural " , whereas abx,

that have been studied much more extensively, are not " okay " . People

who criticize abx, will happily take samento (even though it's also

been altered from its original form). Believe me, I used to want to

believe this natural-is-always-superior thing, but it's not really

logical. If something's really killing bugs, it should have varying

impacts on the body just like antibiotics do. " Natural " doesn't mean

safer. But this doesn't mean Samento might not be very, very

helpful. It may be. It's just one of those strange perception

things, IMO, based on misunderstandings about antibiotics and

infections in general. But what's new?

penny

> Tony and Penny

>

> AW does use ABx, he has used the Schardt protocol, is now using

the

> Weldon protocol for CP as well, and even the protocol that should

not

> be named. Not everyone can tolerate ABx especially when used long

> term, so some of his patients opt for alternatives. He has used

other

> meds in the past, his approach would fit the integrated medicine

> model.

>

> AW will often opt for alternatives prior to using any ABX, the aim

> lower the pathgogen and toxin loads first and because for some

> patients they work without the need to resort to ABx at all. These

> alternatives are not just antimicrobial they work as anti

> inflammatories, immune modulators, and provide other benefits as

> well. That's why samento is gaining popularity including its use

as

> an adjunct to ABx protocols.

>

> Could it be the growing popularity of samento is based upon

> observation and results rather than just being the latest fad?

>

> Cheers, Tansy

>