Re: Take Autism Quotient (AQ) test!

January 27, 2002

--- Roman Sverdlov wrote:

> I took it and I got 23. Just have a theory may be

> people w/AS wouldn't

> normally get too high scores as AS isn't a classic

> autism. How do the rest

> do?

I took this test a few weeks ago, and I got 42 out of

50.

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January 27, 2002

Errr ummm, I got 40 - and I was being very honest all the way through. Very

interesting.

sandi

Take Autism Quotient (AQ) test!

I took it and I got 23. Just have a theory may be people w/AS wouldn't

normally get too high scores as AS isn't a classic autism. How do the rest

do?

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

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January 27, 2002

Roman Sverdlov wrote:

[about AQ]

> I took it and I got 23.

> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

If you look back in the archives, to about the 18th of December, you can see

some list members' scores on that test. I got 46.

> Just have a theory may be people w/AS wouldn't

> normally get too high scores as AS isn't a classic autism. How do the rest

> do?

On the contrary; the questions on the test are very much tuned to the AS

expression of autism. This makes sense, given the demographic of people most

likely to be reading Wired, and the accompanying article mentioning AS in the

context of high-tech Silicon Valley industry (IIRC). A more classically

autistic person (lower functioning than any of us here) would possibly score

lower than someone with AS, assuming he was able to comprehend and answer the

questions accurately.

January 27, 2002

>If you look back in the archives, to about the 18th of December, you can

>see

>some list members' scores on that test. I got 46.

How to look at archives? I weren't on the list at that time.

A more classically

>autistic person (lower functioning than any of us here) would possibly

>score

>lower than someone with AS,

Why? Are you saying that AS is in some sense more severe that some symptoms

people w/AS have people w/autism don't?

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January 27, 2002

Roman Sverdlov wrote:

>

> >If you look back in the archives, to about the 18th of December, you can

> >see

> >some list members' scores on that test. I got 46.

>

> How to look at archives? I weren't on the list at that time.

Go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AutisticSpectrumTreeHouse/messages/274

>

> A more classically

> >autistic person (lower functioning than any of us here) would possibly

> >score

> >lower than someone with AS,

>

> Why? Are you saying that AS is in some sense more severe that some symptoms

> people w/AS have people w/autism don't?

No, just that the expression of autism (whether it be AS or de facto autism)

varies quite a bit depending on the " function level " (intelligence) of the

person. People with AS tend to be above average in intelligence, and the

traits associated with autism at that level differ than those associated with

more classically autistic, lower-functioning individuals.

The AQ test left out just about all of the traits of autism that are not as

commonly associated with AS, such as hand-flapping, echolalia, and other

stereotyped behaviors. Many people on the spectrum, even as adults, show these

behaviors (I am one of them). As such, the AQ test is more properly an

Asperger's Quotient test than an Autism Quotient. A true autism test would

give more points to people that show classical stereotyped behaviors, and

concentrate less on the more cerebral aspects of autistic thinking. The test

is designed to detect autistic traits in people that have gone undiagnosed

until adulthood (who are almost invariably AS or very HFA), not in giving a

score that would correspond with a person's position on the spectrum.

I would not worry too much about your low score. As was mentioned in December,

self-rating can be problematic. This is a fun thing, and for some readers of

the article, it may lead to future diagnosis, but it is not anything I would

consider to be especially significant.

January 27, 2002

Like can you give me an exaple of question asked on THAT test that more

classic autistic would answer in " normal " way? For instance, is it true that

more classic autistics would NOT be noticing patterns, or that they would

NOT be the last ones to understand jokes, etc? Sure, they missed out planty

of things that classic autistics have while AS people don't, like

hand-flapping, but they also have to INCLUDE questions that classic

autistics will answer normally in order for them to get lower score-- think

about it.

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January 27, 2002

Roman Sverdlov wrote:

>

> Like can you give me an exaple of question asked on THAT test that more

> classic autistic would answer in " normal " way? For instance, is it true that

> more classic autistics would NOT be noticing patterns, or that they would

> NOT be the last ones to understand jokes, etc?

No; they probably would notice patterns, and they might not get a joke at all.

I was not speaking of any specific question-- I noticed that when I took the

test, it was all tuned toward the high end of the spectrum. The kinds of

questions in the AQ test are the same sorts of questions in Dr. Gilliam's GADS

AS diagnostic scale. From what I understand from Dr. Gilliam, typical

autistics score significantly lower on his AS scale than de facto aspies do.

Autistic people with high intelligence, who are near the border between AS and

autism (like me), typically score high on tests for AS, but more typical

autistic people do not.

Since you asked, I revisited the test, and I picked out a few questions that

typical autistic people MAY score lower on than those with AS. Keep in mind

that this is speculative. Also, I am using prototypically autistic people as a

model; they are less likely to take this test, of course; someone else would

have to rate them.

> 13 I would rather go to a library than to a party.

Not sure about this one, but someone that is less intellectually inclined than

the typical aspie may not prefer libraries to parties. The more autistic

person may be so socially unaware that the party is not as objectionable as it

is for those of us higher on the spectrum; less social awareness means less

concern about saying the right thing or appearing at ease. The library would

hold less appeal for someone not intellectually inclined as well.

> 18 When I talk, it isn't always easy for others to get a word

> in edgewise.

This is very typical of aspies, but not so much of autistics. Many or most de

facto autistics are rather low on verbal output-- they are not conversation

hogs like aspies, even though their verbal skills may be intact. They tend to

be passive observers more than active participants. It is notable, though,

that this conversation-hogging trait is more common in male aspies.

24 I would rather go to the theater than to a museum.

I am not even sure which way was supposed to be autistic on this one-- theater

can mean a movie theater to an opera performance... the latter having

significant overlap with the museum-going crowd. However, I know that most

people would rather see a movie than go to a museum, so I will assume that the

non-normal answer is to prefer the museum. This, again, is an outgrowth of the

intellectual nature of many aspies, which is not so with most autistics. I

think most de facto autistics may prefer theater.

> 33 When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to speak.

My impression is that autistics would be less likely to even notice that there

are discrete turns, and to just talk if and when he wants... or end up sitting

there silently waiting for the other person to talk because he has nothing to

say. Less verbally-inclined autistics would be relatively uninterested in a

telephone anyway.

> 39 People often tell me that I keep going on and on about the same thing.

Again, most de facto autistics are not all that verbose. Further, they are

less socially aware and less likely to care to share their perseverations with

you. Verbosity is a hallmark of AS, not of autism. This is one of several

areas that I am more aspie than autistic.

> 41 I like to collect information about categories of things (e.g.,

> types of cars, birds, trains, plants).

Autistics are less likely to collect information about their perseveration, or

to have perseverations regarding generalized (more abstract) topics like birds,

trains, et cetera. Their perseverations are more often of specific objects.

They may indulge it in a number of ways, but data collecting is more typical of

autistic spectrum people that are above average in intelligence, most of whom

are aspies.

> Sure, they missed out planty

> of things that classic autistics have while AS people don't, like

> hand-flapping, but they also have to INCLUDE questions that classic

> autistics will answer normally in order for them to get lower score-- think

> about it.

Yes, and the ones above are some good examples of that.

Also, though, if you notice the very high scores many of us on this list have

reported (and most members do not describe themselves as HFA; most are aspie),

there is not much room to be " more " autistic. Surely there are people that are

way, way more autistic than I am, yet I scored 46 out of 50-- you can't get a

great deal higher than that. Even if de facto autistics scored the same as

aspies, would that truly be accurate in terms of " autism quotient? "

January 27, 2002

I would somewhat agree with what you said, but I can also think of many

questions that are pointing towards autism more then towards Asperger's. For

instance, noticing patterns. At least according to how Donna

describes it, it seems like tracing patterns is a sensory thing since she

said how she was " losing herself " in the patterns of wall paper and such. I

remember it being mentioned somewhere that sensory problems are more common

with autism then with Asperger's. In this sense autistics would be more

likely to answer in autistic fassion to such questions than people with

Asperger's. By the way, Donna has High Functioning Autism and not

Asperger's given both her diagnosis and her lack of non-ecolalic speach

before 3 and a half.

Also, fascination with numbers, dates etc. also seems more autistic then

Asperger's. In fact I have read the book " Autism and Asperger's Syndrome " in

which basically each chapter is a copy of work of some author on autism.

There was a chapter of what Heinst Asperger wrote himself. While he mainly

focused on higher functioning cases, at some place he just stated that its

actually the whole spectrum and many aren't as high functionings as the

subjects of his study. And as he was listing people less and less high

functioning, he listed so-called calenders people among not-so-high

functioning. Now, I know that criteria are changed till now, but they are

changed in a dirrection of making people with Asperger's even HIGHER

functioning than the cases Asperger's decribed, while his cases are now

cases of autism. Therefore, the calender keepers who are LOWER functioning

then the cases Asperger described are even further down the functioning

scale and thus even less likely to meet criteria for Asperger's of course.

Well, of course I am not the one to debate facts and question your dx

without even knowing you since there are more dimensions to this test

covers, just as you said. And in fact tracing or not tracing patterns isn't

even part of DSM 4 criteria. HOWEVER, I still maintain that I would expect

MANY people with Asperger's not to score too high on this test since many

don't trace patterns and staff. In fact this is largely why I didn't score

high.

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January 27, 2002

>

> I would somewhat agree with what you said, but I can also think of many

> questions that are pointing towards autism more then towards Asperger's.

For

> instance, noticing patterns. At least according to how Donna

> describes it, it seems like tracing patterns is a sensory thing since she

> said how she was " losing herself " in the patterns of wall paper and such.

I

> remember it being mentioned somewhere that sensory problems are more

common

> with autism then with Asperger's. In this sense autistics would be more

> likely to answer in autistic fassion to such questions than people with

> Asperger's. By the way, Donna has High Functioning Autism and

not

> Asperger's given both her diagnosis and her lack of non-ecolalic speach

> before 3 and a half.

I'm probably more AS than HFA -- and I do the patterns in wallpaper, floor

tiling, etc. That's fascinated me since I was very young, and still does.

It probably illustrates that every AS or HFA person expresses a different

subset of the possible traits.

> Also, fascination with numbers, dates etc. also seems more autistic then

> Asperger's.

I have fascinations in this area, and I can do mental arithmetic to an

extent (e.g. I usually keep track of what I've bought in the supermarket

and know the price, including tax, to the exact cent before the cashier

tells it to me), but I can't multiply three or five digit numbers. I'm

fairly good at math techniques up through calculus; in college, I found my

classes in probability/statistics and differential equations both easy and

fascinating.

Doug

January 29, 2002

>That is an error in logic. You took the test and scored low, and you

>assume

>that since you are AS, that the questions must not be oriented towards AS.

Actually its not just my observation about *me* but also a general

understanding of AS. I have wrote it earlier in my reply to your last mail,

but since you once indicated you had problems with your computer, I will cut

and paste what I wrote you here. In case you have it, I answered the rest of

your questions about *myself* below the cut and paste (I separated cut and

paste with the line for your convenience). In fact, I would NOT make that

argument merely based on myself-- after all, only 80% go higher then 32 so

it wouldn't be a big surprise to be below that. Anyway, just to point out,

it wouldn't be a big surprise if everyone with AS were to fall in higher

20%, though I wouldn't debate facts. Anyway, here it goes:

-----------------beginning of cut and paste--------------------------