Re: Tansy - gallbladder issues

[Guest guest]

I've experienced that , for years i complained of gall bladder /liver ache . I found it responded to Abx's & plenty of em ...I reckon "ascending cholangitis" fits the bill , that is ascending from the infected gut .....One thing that accompanied the condition was sometimes say one week in 10 i would have almost black stools , ...do you experience that?... It's common with a yeast infection too .....

"Primary sclerosing cholangitis is more common in men, and 75% of the time it is seen in people with inflammatory bowel disease (ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease). Primary biliary cirrhosis is more common in women, and is sometimes associated with autoimmune diseases such as Sjogren's syndrome, thyroiditis, scleroderma or rheumatoid arthritis. "

Less common causes of blockages include cancers of the bile duct (cholangiocarcinomas) and strictures (scars that narrow the ducts after infection, surgery or inflammation). .

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/9494.html.

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of duramater27Sent: 05 September 2005 21:02infections Subject: [infections] Tansy - gallbladder issuestansy --your mention of treating various issues including gall bladder picqued my curiosity. i am having stunning gall bladder pain at times (in the absence of stones on U/S) and even ended up in the hospital with pancreatitis. my current hypothesis is that this is another manifestation of autonomic dysfunction that is occuring as a consequence of the Bb infection. what did you do that worked for gb/gut stuff and what do you suspect as the cause?thanks,dm.> > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your authoritive> > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what you see > > under a> > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your findings > are> > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as definitive .. > > Herxing is> > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined to a > > brief period> > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare cycle > in > > line> > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W finds > > the blood> > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record with > that , > > it's an> > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he would > > risk his> > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's infected > > too.,> > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to one > week > > before> > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think > > so .Though I do> > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I don't > > know why he> > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative thing > is> > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised research > > tool ..see> > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…> > > > > > > > > > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.> > > Related Articles, Links> > > > > > > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in > > periodontology]> > > > > > [Article in Dutch]> > > > > > Callens A.> > > > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde te > > Leuven,> > > Belgie.> > > > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not very > > useful, since> > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent (same > > refractive> > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this > problem > > in a> > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is > > illuminated by> > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent away and > > enter the> > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background is > > formed. The> > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the geometry > (wave > > length> > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells. > > Methodologically> > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly influence the > > outcome of> > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of sampling > and> > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above > > mentioned> > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is kept > > constant. The> > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant > information.> > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi

Well since treating infections and working at establishing better

flora in the GI tract helped a lot I guess that may have contributed

but I also know the liver was involved too. ABx rarely helped they

often made matters worse, and anti fungals were less successful over

the years than I had hoped with regard to this. When I first took

doxy for another infection one area of pain in my lower GI tract

disappeared, later though it caused more problems than I'd had

previously hence discovering primal defense.

When I was first Dx with candida in the 80s, the doctor knew other

gut borne infections were involved too; my " ibs " followed two very

nasty GI tract infections acquired during my childhood when living

overseas. Afer that it only used to get really bad following viral

infections, until everything went pear shaped that is.

There is a saying that death begins in the colon, so I was pleased to

read your reminders here at I & I on how important this part of our

immunity is.

I get the same benefits from boswellia that have been reported by

those with IBD who find it useful, it can reduce and then halt an

inflammatory immune response in my lower GI tract that also causes

the sort of fatigue experienced in auto immune diseases.

Cheers, Tansy

> > > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your

authoritive

> > > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what

you see

> > > under a

> > > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your

findings

> > are

> > > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as

definitive ..

> > > Herxing is

> > > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined

to a

> > > brief period

> > > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare

cycle

> > in

> > > line

> > > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W

finds

> > > the blood

> > > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record with

> > that ,

> > > it's an

> > > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he

would

> > > risk his

> > > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's

infected

> > > too.,

> > > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to

one

> > week

> > > before

> > > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think

> > > so .Though I do

> > > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I

don't

> > > know why he

> > > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative

thing

> > is

> > > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised

research

> > > tool ..see

> > > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.

> > > > Related Articles, Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in

> > > periodontology]

> > > >

> > > > [Article in Dutch]

> > > >

> > > > Callens A.

> > > >

> > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde

te

> > > Leuven,

> > > > Belgie.

> > > >

> > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not very

> > > useful, since

> > > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent

(same

> > > refractive

> > > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this

> > problem

> > > in a

> > > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is

> > > illuminated by

> > > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent

away and

> > > enter the

> > > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background is

> > > formed. The

> > > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the

geometry

> > (wave

> > > length

> > > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells.

> > > Methodologically

> > > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly

influence the

> > > outcome of

> > > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of

sampling

> > and

> > > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above

> > > mentioned

> > > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is kept

> > > constant. The

> > > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant

> > information.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

DM

Sorry to read you have this horrible pain too. I had GB pain on and

off for two years following surgery that caused trauma to my neck;

this is relevant since part affected areas can cause GB as well as a

host of other problems/symptoms

Then after becoming ill the GB issues worsened, more pain etc would

lead to the classic pale stools. Only had one ultrasound in the early

80s, no stones and conclusion was an infection had caused

inflammation in the bile ducts from the liver to the GB and

cholecystitis.

I used very low doses of bitters, Chinese bitters are supposed to be

good, once I could tolerate lemons again I just used lemon water but

had to eat soon afterwards. I used oil taken from a spoon to

stimulate the bile flow, initially flax seed oil until I realised it

made my gastritis worse, so I swapped over to olive oil but could

only cope with the very light version back then. I went about these

stages very slowly. Also I took various herbal combos aimed at

treating both the liver (detoxing) and gall bladder (stimulating bile

flow), again taking it very slowly. Gradually I decreased my complex

carb intake and increased my intake of good fats. I made sure I ate

enough protein too.

I used quite a few alternative antimicrobials to help with any

infections in my GI tract and went to town on the candida, these

included berberine compex, wild oregano oil, mastika gum, grapefruit

seed extract and garlic. Olive leaf extract was the least effective

of the ones I tried. My course of amphotericin b just prior to this

did not work so well, I guess it had been used too many times before.

Nystatin had only been partially successful when first took it, then

I started to react to it – not die off.

The basic probiotics I had been using were clearly not enough so I

went for stronger ones with more strains. Digestive enzymes and

psyllium husks helped too.

It took time but I went from having GB pain, chronic gastritis,

and " ibs " to feeling pretty normal apart from those classic cycles.

Yes I think the Bb and the autonomic dysfunction contribute to it,

more so due to the much milder flare up cycles which go away again of

their own accord without the need for any additional interventions.

However, I have recently understood more on why detoxing (and die

off) could backfire on me, and how this affected the efficiency of my

liver, it is one of those vicious circles we so often find ourselves

in. Chipping into this one took concentrating on reducing

inflammation and coagulation.

Cheers Tansy

PS some of these alternatives, especially the wild oregano oil, also

put an end to many years of chronic sinus pain, a year later and it

has still not returned.

> > > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your

authoritive

> > > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what you

see

> > > under a

> > > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your

findings

> > are

> > > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as

definitive ..

> > > Herxing is

> > > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined to

a

> > > brief period

> > > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare

cycle

> > in

> > > line

> > > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W

finds

> > > the blood

> > > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record with

> > that ,

> > > it's an

> > > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he

would

> > > risk his

> > > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's

infected

> > > too.,

> > > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to

one

> > week

> > > before

> > > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think

> > > so .Though I do

> > > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I

don't

> > > know why he

> > > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative

thing

> > is

> > > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised

research

> > > tool ..see

> > > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.

> > > > Related Articles, Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in

> > > periodontology]

> > > >

> > > > [Article in Dutch]

> > > >

> > > > Callens A.

> > > >

> > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde te

> > > Leuven,

> > > > Belgie.

> > > >

> > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not very

> > > useful, since

> > > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent

(same

> > > refractive

> > > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this

> > problem

> > > in a

> > > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is

> > > illuminated by

> > > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent away

and

> > > enter the

> > > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background is

> > > formed. The

> > > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the geometry

> > (wave

> > > length

> > > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells.

> > > Methodologically

> > > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly influence

the

> > > outcome of

> > > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of

sampling

> > and

> > > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above

> > > mentioned

> > > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is kept

> > > constant. The

> > > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant

> > information.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that Tansy , I think doxy is more effective than minocin , a clue to this maybe is the way doxy warms up the gut , I can detect a hotspot where the pill lands ..I take this as the drug is more effective in the gut and as such strikes at the heart & reservoir of the infection!! Are you taking ARB's ?

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of tansyapSent: 05 September 2005 22:34infections Subject: [infections] Re: Tansy - gallbladder issuesHi Well since treating infections and working at establishing better flora in the GI tract helped a lot I guess that may have contributed but I also know the liver was involved too. ABx rarely helped they often made matters worse, and anti fungals were less successful over the years than I had hoped with regard to this. When I first took doxy for another infection one area of pain in my lower GI tract disappeared, later though it caused more problems than I'd had previously hence discovering primal defense.When I was first Dx with candida in the 80s, the doctor knew other gut borne infections were involved too; my "ibs" followed two very nasty GI tract infections acquired during my childhood when living overseas. Afer that it only used to get really bad following viral infections, until everything went pear shaped that is.There is a saying that death begins in the colon, so I was pleased to read your reminders here at I & I on how important this part of our immunity is.I get the same benefits from boswellia that have been reported by those with IBD who find it useful, it can reduce and then halt an inflammatory immune response in my lower GI tract that also causes the sort of fatigue experienced in auto immune diseases.Cheers, Tansy > > > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your authoritive> > > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what you see> > > under a> > > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your findings> > are> > > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as definitive ..> > > Herxing is> > > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined to a> > > brief period> > > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare cycle> > in> > > line> > > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W finds> > > the blood> > > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record with> > that ,> > > it's an> > > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he would> > > risk his> > > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's infected> > > too.,> > > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to one> > week> > > before> > > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think> > > so .Though I do> > > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I don't> > > know why he> > > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative thing> > is> > > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised research> > > tool ..see> > > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.> > > > Related Articles, Links> > > >> > > >> > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in> > > periodontology]> > > >> > > > [Article in Dutch]> > > >> > > > Callens A.> > > >> > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde te> > > Leuven,> > > > Belgie.> > > >> > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not very> > > useful, since> > > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent (same> > > refractive> > > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this> > problem> > > in a> > > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is> > > illuminated by> > > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent away and> > > enter the> > > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background is> > > formed. The> > > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the geometry> > (wave> > > length> > > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells.> > > Methodologically> > > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly influence the> > > outcome of> > > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of sampling> > and> > > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above> > > mentioned> > > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is kept> > > constant. The> > > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant> > information.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >

[Guest guest]

I think its the result of infection, either in the gb or in the

nerves of liver/gb, of borrelia maybe also babesia (in animals can

cause liver damage).

Here is what I do and even so it's not enough, as I do have liver/gb

symptoms:

1) customprobiotics (www.customprobiotics.com) I use only bifidus

becaues acidophilus bothers my bladder but I would recommend his

Custom 6 for most people. Its pure, and potent.

2) Digest (enzymedica) and bromelain

3) hyperbaric oxygen

4) glutathione, magnesium, vitamin C

I'm going to do some colonics nad liver flushes

> > > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your

authoritive

> > > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what you

see

> > > under a

> > > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your

findings

> > are

> > > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as

definitive ..

> > > Herxing is

> > > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined to

a

> > > brief period

> > > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare

cycle

> > in

> > > line

> > > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W

finds

> > > the blood

> > > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record with

> > that ,

> > > it's an

> > > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he

would

> > > risk his

> > > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's

infected

> > > too.,

> > > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to

one

> > week

> > > before

> > > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think

> > > so .Though I do

> > > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I

don't

> > > know why he

> > > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative

thing

> > is

> > > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised

research

> > > tool ..see

> > > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.

> > > > Related Articles, Links

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in

> > > periodontology]

> > > >

> > > > [Article in Dutch]

> > > >

> > > > Callens A.

> > > >

> > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde te

> > > Leuven,

> > > > Belgie.

> > > >

> > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not very

> > > useful, since

> > > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent

(same

> > > refractive

> > > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this

> > problem

> > > in a

> > > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is

> > > illuminated by

> > > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent away

and

> > > enter the

> > > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background is

> > > formed. The

> > > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the geometry

> > (wave

> > > length

> > > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells.

> > > Methodologically

> > > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly influence

the

> > > outcome of

> > > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of

sampling

> > and

> > > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above

> > > mentioned

> > > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is kept

> > > constant. The

> > > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant

> > information.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

My gall bladder's been borderline since my first pregnancy (according

to my doc). Only seems to act up after an overload of very fatty foods.

penny

> I've experienced that , for years i complained of gall

bladder /liver ache .

> I found it responded to Abx's & plenty of em ...I reckon " ascending

> cholangitis " fits the bill , that is ascending from the infected gut

[Guest guest]

Tansy:

Forgive me for forgetting your prior dx - was it Lupus?

And a question about the problem with taking oils - did the oil help

or hinder your gall bladder problem (i.e lack of bile flow)

Thanks,

Barb

Tansy wrote:

Then after becoming ill the GB issues worsened, more pain etc would

lead to the classic pale stools. Only had one ultrasound in the early

80s, no stones and conclusion was an infection had caused

inflammation in the bile ducts from the liver to the GB and

cholecystitis.

I used very low doses of bitters, Chinese bitters are supposed to be

good, once I could tolerate lemons again I just used lemon water but

had to eat soon afterwards. I used oil taken from a spoon to

stimulate the bile flow, initially flax seed oil until

> > > > > Tony, one of my criticisms of you in the past is your

> authoritive

> > > > > announcements of your findings…Fact is interpreting what

you

> see

> > > > under a

> > > > > microscope is a very in-depth hard learned skill …your

> findings

> > > are

> > > > > interesting ,but in no way could be thought of as

> definitive ..

> > > > Herxing is

> > > > > the reaction to the die off of pathogens, usually confined

to

> a

> > > > brief period

> > > > > following the onset of ABX treatment…I experience a flare

> cycle

> > > in

> > > > line

> > > > > with Dr s findings ,it's puzzled me for years, Dr W

> finds

> > > > the blood

> > > > > teeming with…??.. one day & not another, He's on record

with

> > > that ,

> > > > it's an

> > > > > easily repeatable easily checkable test , I don't think he

> would

> > > > risk his

> > > > > reputation making the results up! .And don't forget he's

> infected

> > > > too.,

> > > > > number one guinea pig… I can predict a flare [now moved to

> one

> > > week

> > > > before

> > > > > the full moon] So not a Herx…compelling evidence, I think

> > > > so .Though I do

> > > > > agree I wish Dr W would get his finger out & publish , I

> don't

> > > > know why he

> > > > > doesn't ..Your description of a darkfield as a alternative

> thing

> > > is

> > > > > surprising not to mention incorrect, it's a recognised

> research

> > > > tool ..see

> > > > > below ..Sorry Tony , but stop shooting from the hip…

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ned Tijdschr Tandheelkd. 1992 Oct;99(10):381-4.

> > > > > Related Articles, Links

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [Darkfield or phase contrast microscopy. Usefulness in

> > > > periodontology]

> > > > >

> > > > > [Article in Dutch]

> > > > >

> > > > > Callens A.

> > > > >

> > > > > Uit de Eenheid Parodontologie van de Faculteit Geneeskunde

te

> > > > Leuven,

> > > > > Belgie.

> > > > >

> > > > > Microscopic evaluation of a dental plaque sample is not

very

> > > > useful, since

> > > > > the bacteria are difficult to distinguish from the diluent

> (same

> > > > refractive

> > > > > index). Two types of microscopic analyses try to solve this

> > > problem

> > > > in a

> > > > > different way. Using a darkfield microscope, the object is

> > > > illuminated by

> > > > > slanting rays of light, that are then dispersed or bent

away

> and

> > > > enter the

> > > > > object. In this way, a shining image on a dark background

is

> > > > formed. The

> > > > > phase contrast microscope uses two principles of the

geometry

> > > (wave

> > > > length

> > > > > and amplitude) to create an image of the illuminated cells.

> > > > Methodologically

> > > > > the next aspects are important, since they strongly

influence

> the

> > > > outcome of

> > > > > the analysis: contamination of the sample, technique of

> sampling

> > > and

> > > > > preparation of the sample. The reproducibility of the above

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > techniques is high when a great number of parameters is

kept

> > > > constant. The

> > > > > analysis of the sample give us some clinically relevant

> > > information.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Barb

After a major flare up and problems following a lumbar puncture I was

Dx with SLE, this was based on raised DNA binding (lymphocytes), low

C3 and 4, high ESR etc, However I was not producing DNA antibodies.

The prednisolone was a disaster for a variety of reasons, one being

my pathogens had a field day of course. After the neg test result it

was described as a lupus-like syndrome which I think applies to many

of us. I had various Dx.

The oil helped my GB problem but I went about it very carefully, only

a very small amount to start with which I slowly increased. At the

same time I used herbs or bitters to help as well but again took in

very small quantities. I guess I was aiming to encourge bile flow

rather than cause problems through anything too strong. Others have

opted for the stronger flushes often using the same olive oil and

lemon combo used to help with die of during herxes.

I have no problems eating fats now.

Cheers, Tansy

> > DM

> >

> > Sorry to read you have this horrible pain too. I had GB pain on

and

> > off for two years following surgery that caused trauma to my

neck;

> > this is relevant since part affected areas can cause GB as well

as

> a

> > host of other problems/symptoms

> >

> > Then after becoming ill the GB issues worsened, more pain etc

would

> > lead to the classic pale stools. Only had one ultrasound in the

> early

> > 80s, no stones and conclusion was an infection had caused

> > inflammation in the bile ducts from the liver to the GB and

> > cholecystitis.

> >

> > I used very low doses of bitters, Chinese bitters are supposed to

> be

> > good, once I could tolerate lemons again I just used lemon water

> but

> > had to eat soon afterwards. I used oil taken from a spoon to

> > stimulate the bile flow, initially flax seed oil until I realised

> it

> > made my gastritis worse, so I swapped over to olive oil but could

> > only cope with the very light version back then. I went about

these

> > stages very slowly. Also I took various herbal combos aimed at

> > treating both the liver (detoxing) and gall bladder (stimulating

> bile

> > flow), again taking it very slowly. Gradually I decreased my

> complex

> > carb intake and increased my intake of good fats. I made sure I

ate

> > enough protein too.

> >

> > I used quite a few alternative antimicrobials to help with any

> > infections in my GI tract and went to town on the candida, these

> > included berberine compex, wild oregano oil, mastika gum,

> grapefruit

> > seed extract and garlic. Olive leaf extract was the least

> effective

> > of the ones I tried. My course of amphotericin b just prior to

this

> > did not work so well, I guess it had been used too many times

> before.

> > Nystatin had only been partially successful when first took it,

> then

> > I started to react to it – not die off.

> >

> > The basic probiotics I had been using were clearly not enough so

I

> > went for stronger ones with more strains. Digestive enzymes and

> > psyllium husks helped too.

> >

> > It took time but I went from having GB pain, chronic gastritis,

> > and " ibs " to feeling pretty normal apart from those classic

cycles.

> >

> > Yes I think the Bb and the autonomic dysfunction contribute to

it,

> > more so due to the much milder flare up cycles which go away

again

> of

> > their own accord without the need for any additional

interventions.

> > However, I have recently understood more on why detoxing (and die

> > off) could backfire on me, and how this affected the efficiency

of

> my

> > liver, it is one of those vicious circles we so often find

> ourselves

> > in. Chipping into this one took concentrating on reducing

> > inflammation and coagulation.

> >

> > Cheers Tansy

> >

> > PS some of these alternatives, especially the wild oregano oil,

> also

> > put an end to many years of chronic sinus pain, a year later and

it

> > has still not returned.

> >