Re: Anti-stress & anti-anxiety effects of angiotensin II AT1 receptor antagonist

[Guest guest]

> This is absolutely in line with my own experience. My mental stress

> decreased tremendously with Benicar. I was more relaxed, didn't get

> upset about things so easily, could sleep rather than worrying a

> problem to death, and the old teeth chattering stopped (a nervous

> kind of thing I couldn't control). Neck tension disappeared, etc.,

> etc., etc. This was all in addition to the tremendous pain relief,

> migraine relief etc. Benicar is definitely working on more than

> Blood pressure in my case, I have no doubt about that. As a matter

> of fact, it hasn't affected my bp much at all (unless it's keeping

> it as low as it's always been).

>

> penny

-------------------------------------------------------------

Penny,

I know you have heard this from me before, but this just reinforces my

strong belief that you have been enjoying a 'Goldstein response' to

benicar (remodulation of brain neural networks via 'chemical

accupuncture' of the brain). Your symptom relief was far too sudden

and global to be accomplished by any 'below the neck' changes in

physiology.

Thanks to Mark London for a great find...

Here is some more info on the neurological importance of AII in the

brain, which includes these tidbits:

--------------------------------

- administration...blocked AT(1) receptors not only outside but also

inside the blood brain barrier.

- Peripheral administration of AT(1) receptor antagonists strongly

affected brain circulation and normalized some of the profound

alterations...

- AT(1) receptor antagonists were capable of reversing the

pathological cerebrovascular remodeling in hypertension and the shift

to the right in the cerebral autoregulation, normalizing

cerebrovascular compliance.

- AT(1) receptor antagonists normalized the expression of

cerebrovascular nitric oxide synthase isoenzymes and reversed the

inflammatory reaction...

- orally administered AT(1) receptor antagonists may be considered as

novel therapeutic compounds for the treatment of diseases of the

central nervous system when stress, inflammation and (or) ischemia

play major roles...

PMID: 16075377 [PubMed - in process]

--------------------------------

The above examples help to illustrate the profound, multi-symptom

resolution that can be accomplished by inserting the correct molecule

into the proper place in the brain...and it also shows how the brain

controls so many of the symptoms that make up CFS...but it should be

remembered that it is a very individualized situation...with benicar

it appears that it is probably under 5% of patients respond this way.

I am delighted benicar is still working so well for you, but I am even

more happy to see you are still trying to correct the cause

(infection). You have enough evidence of overwhelming infection to

know that this resolution of many of the inflammatory aspects will

probably not be enough to allow your immune system to resolve the

infection without more help.

I think that this is a window of opportunity for you - you have the

capacity (via reduced inflammation) to indure some more aggressive

treatment protocols. My personal view is that a very large part of CFS

is infection in and of the brain itself, as evidenced by the fact that

the few folks who have achieved total remission have done so via very

aggressive protocols - which are the ones that have the capability to

cross the blood brain barrier.

For the past few months, I have been intending to post about my own

CFS disease model, but every week there is new info...and I never

quite get done, lol.

But I would like to say that I think for those patients (like myself)

who belong to what I call the CFS-V group (viral induced or viral

associated CFS) the disease model may be a co-infection of the brain -

both viral and bacterial (for me current guess is herpes / EBV along

with chlamydia pneumoniae). I will post evidence for this brain viral

and bacterial infection later in another post...this one is too long

as is.

Jerry

[Guest guest]

I don't think you can make that claim that it's a Goldstein type

effect alone. It may be part of what's going on, but it ain't JUST

in the brain. I do know my body well enough to know that. And you

have to remember that we're dealing with hormones here as well.

Plus, Goldstein's patients never seemed to maintain the gains they,

at least that's why I decided not to try his approach, whereas my

improvements haven't diminished at all, and have actually become

more " healed " in some areas. I.E when the drug wears off, the body

pain is no longer returning.

penny

> > This is absolutely in line with my own experience. My mental

stress

> > decreased tremendously with Benicar. I was more relaxed, didn't

get

> > upset about things so easily, could sleep rather than worrying a

> > problem to death, and the old teeth chattering stopped (a

nervous

> > kind of thing I couldn't control). Neck tension disappeared,

etc.,

> > etc., etc. This was all in addition to the tremendous pain

relief,

> > migraine relief etc. Benicar is definitely working on more than

> > Blood pressure in my case, I have no doubt about that. As a

matter

> > of fact, it hasn't affected my bp much at all (unless it's

keeping

> > it as low as it's always been).

> >

> > penny

> -------------------------------------------------------------

> Penny,

>

> I know you have heard this from me before, but this just

reinforces my

> strong belief that you have been enjoying a 'Goldstein response' to

> benicar (remodulation of brain neural networks via 'chemical

> accupuncture' of the brain). Your symptom relief was far too sudden

> and global to be accomplished by any 'below the neck' changes in

> physiology.

>

> Thanks to Mark London for a great find...

>

> Here is some more info on the neurological importance of AII in the

> brain, which includes these tidbits:

>

> --------------------------------

> - administration...blocked AT(1) receptors not only outside but

also

> inside the blood brain barrier.

>

> - Peripheral administration of AT(1) receptor antagonists strongly

> affected brain circulation and normalized some of the profound

> alterations...

>

> - AT(1) receptor antagonists were capable of reversing the

> pathological cerebrovascular remodeling in hypertension and the

shift

> to the right in the cerebral autoregulation, normalizing

> cerebrovascular compliance.

>

> - AT(1) receptor antagonists normalized the expression of

> cerebrovascular nitric oxide synthase isoenzymes and reversed the

> inflammatory reaction...

>

> - orally administered AT(1) receptor antagonists may be

considered as

> novel therapeutic compounds for the treatment of diseases of the

> central nervous system when stress, inflammation and (or) ischemia

> play major roles...

>

> PMID: 16075377 [PubMed - in process]

> --------------------------------

>

> The above examples help to illustrate the profound, multi-symptom

> resolution that can be accomplished by inserting the correct

molecule

> into the proper place in the brain...and it also shows how the

brain

> controls so many of the symptoms that make up CFS...but it should

be

> remembered that it is a very individualized situation...with

benicar

> it appears that it is probably under 5% of patients respond this

way.

>

> I am delighted benicar is still working so well for you, but I am

even

> more happy to see you are still trying to correct the cause

> (infection). You have enough evidence of overwhelming infection to

> know that this resolution of many of the inflammatory aspects will

> probably not be enough to allow your immune system to resolve the

> infection without more help.

>

> I think that this is a window of opportunity for you - you have the

> capacity (via reduced inflammation) to indure some more aggressive

> treatment protocols. My personal view is that a very large part of

CFS

> is infection in and of the brain itself, as evidenced by the fact

that

> the few folks who have achieved total remission have done so via

very

> aggressive protocols - which are the ones that have the capability

to

> cross the blood brain barrier.

>

> For the past few months, I have been intending to post about my own

> CFS disease model, but every week there is new info...and I never

> quite get done, lol.

>

> But I would like to say that I think for those patients (like

myself)

> who belong to what I call the CFS-V group (viral induced or viral

> associated CFS) the disease model may be a co-infection of the

brain -

> both viral and bacterial (for me current guess is herpes / EBV

along

> with chlamydia pneumoniae). I will post evidence for this brain

viral

> and bacterial infection later in another post...this one is too

long

> as is.

>

> Jerry

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny

The only consistent gains I have made are using Goldstein's approach. Still working after 8 years and I still need them. The distance I travelled through Goldstein's maze was only limited by cost and availability of drugs

Regards

Windsor [infections] Re: Anti-stress & anti-anxiety effects of angiotensin II AT1 receptor antagonist

I don't think you can make that claim that it's a Goldstein type effect alone. It may be part of what's going on, but it ain't JUST in the brain. I do know my body well enough to know that. And you have to remember that we're dealing with hormones here as well. Plus, Goldstein's patients never seemed to maintain the gains they, at least that's why I decided not to try his approach, whereas my improvements haven't diminished at all, and have actually become more "healed" in some areas. I.E when the drug wears off, the body pain is no longer returning. penny> > This is absolutely in line with my own experience. My mental stress > > decreased tremendously with Benicar. I was more relaxed, didn't get > > upset about things so easily, could sleep rather than worrying a > > problem to death, and the old teeth chattering stopped (a nervous > > kind of thing I couldn't control). Neck tension disappeared, etc., > > etc., etc. This was all in addition to the tremendous pain relief, > > migraine relief etc. Benicar is definitely working on more than > > Blood pressure in my case, I have no doubt about that. As a matter > > of fact, it hasn't affected my bp much at all (unless it's keeping > > it as low as it's always been).> > > > penny> -------------------------------------------------------------> Penny,> > I know you have heard this from me before, but this just reinforces my> strong belief that you have been enjoying a 'Goldstein response' to> benicar (remodulation of brain neural networks via 'chemical> accupuncture' of the brain). Your symptom relief was far too sudden> and global to be accomplished by any 'below the neck' changes in> physiology.> > Thanks to Mark London for a great find...> > Here is some more info on the neurological importance of AII in the> brain, which includes these tidbits:> > --------------------------------> - administration...blocked AT(1) receptors not only outside but also> inside the blood brain barrier.> > - Peripheral administration of AT(1) receptor antagonists strongly> affected brain circulation and normalized some of the profound> alterations...> > - AT(1) receptor antagonists were capable of reversing the> pathological cerebrovascular remodeling in hypertension and the shift> to the right in the cerebral autoregulation, normalizing> cerebrovascular compliance.> > - AT(1) receptor antagonists normalized the expression of> cerebrovascular nitric oxide synthase isoenzymes and reversed the> inflammatory reaction... > > - orally administered AT(1) receptor antagonists may be considered as> novel therapeutic compounds for the treatment of diseases of the> central nervous system when stress, inflammation and (or) ischemia> play major roles...> > PMID: 16075377 [PubMed - in process]> --------------------------------> > The above examples help to illustrate the profound, multi-symptom> resolution that can be accomplished by inserting the correct molecule> into the proper place in the brain...and it also shows how the brain> controls so many of the symptoms that make up CFS...but it should be> remembered that it is a very individualized situation...with benicar> it appears that it is probably under 5% of patients respond this way.> > I am delighted benicar is still working so well for you, but I am even> more happy to see you are still trying to correct the cause> (infection). You have enough evidence of overwhelming infection to> know that this resolution of many of the inflammatory aspects will> probably not be enough to allow your immune system to resolve the> infection without more help.> > I think that this is a window of opportunity for you - you have the> capacity (via reduced inflammation) to indure some more aggressive> treatment protocols. My personal view is that a very large part of CFS> is infection in and of the brain itself, as evidenced by the fact that> the few folks who have achieved total remission have done so via very> aggressive protocols - which are the ones that have the capability to> cross the blood brain barrier.> > For the past few months, I have been intending to post about my own> CFS disease model, but every week there is new info...and I never> quite get done, lol.> > But I would like to say that I think for those patients (like myself)> who belong to what I call the CFS-V group (viral induced or viral> associated CFS) the disease model may be a co-infection of the brain -> both viral and bacterial (for me current guess is herpes / EBV along> with chlamydia pneumoniae). I will post evidence for this brain viral> and bacterial infection later in another post...this one is too long> as is.> > Jerry

[Guest guest]

This makes alot of sense.

And to tie it (the brain) in with the terrible bone-like pain I

expereinced with Lyme (which I came to believe was peripheral nerve

pain of the extremeties)... that pain could turn off and on like a

light switch... so I though the brain was involved -

just didn't have the knowledge or the drugs to fight it back then.

This is why the idea of using a modulator (like Benicar, HCQ or

some other) is so important.. as G says, modulate certain cells

(microglia in the brain) and use the right abx at the right dose and

you just may get those buggers.

Barb

> > This is absolutely in line with my own experience. My mental

stress

> > decreased tremendously with Benicar. I was more relaxed, didn't

get

> > upset about things so easily, could sleep rather than worrying a

> > problem to death, and the old teeth chattering stopped (a nervous

> > kind of thing I couldn't control). Neck tension disappeared,

etc.,

> > etc., etc. This was all in addition to the tremendous pain

relief,

> > migraine relief etc. Benicar is definitely working on more than

> > Blood pressure in my case, I have no doubt about that. As a

matter

> > of fact, it hasn't affected my bp much at all (unless it's

keeping

> > it as low as it's always been).

> >

> > penny

> -------------------------------------------------------------

> Penny,

>

> I know you have heard this from me before, but this just reinforces

my

> strong belief that you have been enjoying a 'Goldstein response' to

> benicar (remodulation of brain neural networks via 'chemical

> accupuncture' of the brain). Your symptom relief was far too sudden

> and global to be accomplished by any 'below the neck' changes in

> physiology.

>

> Thanks to Mark London for a great find...

>

> Here is some more info on the neurological importance of AII in the

> brain, which includes these tidbits:

>

> --------------------------------

> - administration...blocked AT(1) receptors not only outside but

also

> inside the blood brain barrier.

>

> - Peripheral administration of AT(1) receptor antagonists strongly

> affected brain circulation and normalized some of the profound

> alterations...

>

> - AT(1) receptor antagonists were capable of reversing the

> pathological cerebrovascular remodeling in hypertension and the

shift

> to the right in the cerebral autoregulation, normalizing

> cerebrovascular compliance.

>

> - AT(1) receptor antagonists normalized the expression of

> cerebrovascular nitric oxide synthase isoenzymes and reversed the

> inflammatory reaction...

>

> - orally administered AT(1) receptor antagonists may be considered

as

> novel therapeutic compounds for the treatment of diseases of the

> central nervous system when stress, inflammation and (or) ischemia

> play major roles...

>

> PMID: 16075377 [PubMed - in process]

> --------------------------------

>

> The above examples help to illustrate the profound, multi-symptom

> resolution that can be accomplished by inserting the correct

molecule

> into the proper place in the brain...and it also shows how the brain

> controls so many of the symptoms that make up CFS...but it should be

> remembered that it is a very individualized situation...with benicar

> it appears that it is probably under 5% of patients respond this

way.

>

> I am delighted benicar is still working so well for you, but I am

even

> more happy to see you are still trying to correct the cause

> (infection). You have enough evidence of overwhelming infection to

> know that this resolution of many of the inflammatory aspects will

> probably not be enough to allow your immune system to resolve the

> infection without more help.

>

> I think that this is a window of opportunity for you - you have the

> capacity (via reduced inflammation) to indure some more aggressive

> treatment protocols. My personal view is that a very large part of

CFS

> is infection in and of the brain itself, as evidenced by the fact

that

> the few folks who have achieved total remission have done so via

very

> aggressive protocols - which are the ones that have the capability

to

> cross the blood brain barrier.

>

> For the past few months, I have been intending to post about my own

> CFS disease model, but every week there is new info...and I never

> quite get done, lol.

>

> But I would like to say that I think for those patients (like

myself)

> who belong to what I call the CFS-V group (viral induced or viral

> associated CFS) the disease model may be a co-infection of the

brain -

> both viral and bacterial (for me current guess is herpes / EBV along

> with chlamydia pneumoniae). I will post evidence for this brain

viral

> and bacterial infection later in another post...this one is too long

> as is.

>

> Jerry

[Guest guest]

That's amazing to hear, ! And I'm very glad for you. What

else are you doing to keep moving forward?

penny

p.s. I shouldn't have said " never " . I have a tendency to write the

way I talk, which means I should clean up the way I talk. :-) I just

meant to say that I heard of many relapses and re-dos. Meaning

people had to go back for more, usually varied treatment. But I'm

all for anything that helps.

> Dear Penny

> The only consistent gains I have made are using Goldstein's

approach. Still working after 8 years and I still need them. The

distance I travelled through Goldstein's maze was only limited by

cost and availability of drugs

> Regards

> Windsor----- Original Message -----

>

[Guest guest]

I sure hope you're right. I feel like that's what's happening to me,

and I'm on the right track finally, hitting from many directions.

penny

> > > This is absolutely in line with my own experience. My mental

> stress

> > > decreased tremendously with Benicar. I was more relaxed,

didn't

> get

> > > upset about things so easily, could sleep rather than worrying

a

> > > problem to death, and the old teeth chattering stopped (a

nervous

> > > kind of thing I couldn't control). Neck tension disappeared,

> etc.,

> > > etc., etc. This was all in addition to the tremendous pain

> relief,

> > > migraine relief etc. Benicar is definitely working on more

than

> > > Blood pressure in my case, I have no doubt about that. As a

> matter

> > > of fact, it hasn't affected my bp much at all (unless it's

> keeping

> > > it as low as it's always been).

> > >

> > > penny

> > -------------------------------------------------------------

> > Penny,

> >

> > I know you have heard this from me before, but this just

reinforces

> my

> > strong belief that you have been enjoying a 'Goldstein response'

to

> > benicar (remodulation of brain neural networks via 'chemical

> > accupuncture' of the brain). Your symptom relief was far too

sudden

> > and global to be accomplished by any 'below the neck' changes in

> > physiology.

> >

> > Thanks to Mark London for a great find...

> >

> > Here is some more info on the neurological importance of AII in

the

> > brain, which includes these tidbits:

> >

> > --------------------------------

> > - administration...blocked AT(1) receptors not only outside but

> also

> > inside the blood brain barrier.

> >

> > - Peripheral administration of AT(1) receptor antagonists

strongly

> > affected brain circulation and normalized some of the profound

> > alterations...

> >

> > - AT(1) receptor antagonists were capable of reversing the

> > pathological cerebrovascular remodeling in hypertension and the

> shift

> > to the right in the cerebral autoregulation, normalizing

> > cerebrovascular compliance.

> >

> > - AT(1) receptor antagonists normalized the expression of

> > cerebrovascular nitric oxide synthase isoenzymes and reversed the

> > inflammatory reaction...

> >

> > - orally administered AT(1) receptor antagonists may be

considered

> as

> > novel therapeutic compounds for the treatment of diseases of the

> > central nervous system when stress, inflammation and (or)

ischemia

> > play major roles...

> >

> > PMID: 16075377 [PubMed - in process]

> > --------------------------------

> >

> > The above examples help to illustrate the profound, multi-symptom

> > resolution that can be accomplished by inserting the correct

> molecule

> > into the proper place in the brain...and it also shows how the

brain

> > controls so many of the symptoms that make up CFS...but it

should be

> > remembered that it is a very individualized situation...with

benicar

> > it appears that it is probably under 5% of patients respond this

> way.

> >

> > I am delighted benicar is still working so well for you, but I

am

> even

> > more happy to see you are still trying to correct the cause

> > (infection). You have enough evidence of overwhelming infection

to

> > know that this resolution of many of the inflammatory aspects

will

> > probably not be enough to allow your immune system to resolve the

> > infection without more help.

> >

> > I think that this is a window of opportunity for you - you have

the

> > capacity (via reduced inflammation) to indure some more

aggressive

> > treatment protocols. My personal view is that a very large part

of

> CFS

> > is infection in and of the brain itself, as evidenced by the

fact

> that

> > the few folks who have achieved total remission have done so via

> very

> > aggressive protocols - which are the ones that have the

capability

> to

> > cross the blood brain barrier.

> >

> > For the past few months, I have been intending to post about my

own

> > CFS disease model, but every week there is new info...and I never

> > quite get done, lol.

> >

> > But I would like to say that I think for those patients (like

> myself)

> > who belong to what I call the CFS-V group (viral induced or viral

> > associated CFS) the disease model may be a co-infection of the

> brain -

> > both viral and bacterial (for me current guess is herpes / EBV

along

> > with chlamydia pneumoniae). I will post evidence for this brain

> viral

> > and bacterial infection later in another post...this one is too

long

> > as is.

> >

> > Jerry

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny,

I am attempting to grow old gracefully, without much success I'm afraid.

Multi B vitamins, and GABA synergists appear to be the key. Together with trace minerals and a high protein , high fruit diet.. All of Goldstein's successful meds have been GABA-ergic. Plus a couple I have discovered on my own. I am still as crazy as a loon (according to my trusted friends) Still bitter and twisted as far as ducs are concerned but now have a new lease on life. I have finally found a psychiatrist who is intelligent, humane and sane. Trouble is I am 50 years too old. and 12000 miles away from her practice.

..Regards

Windsor

----- Original

Message -----

From: penny

infections

Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:11 AM

Subject: [infections] Re: Anti-stress & anti-anxiety effects of angiotensin II AT1 receptor antagonist

That's amazing to hear, ! And I'm very glad for you. What else are you doing to keep moving forward?pennyp.s. I shouldn't have said "never". I have a tendency to write the way I talk, which means I should clean up the way I talk. :-) I just meant to say that I heard of many relapses and re-dos. Meaning people had to go back for more, usually varied treatment. But I'm all for anything that helps.> Dear Penny> The only consistent gains I have made are using Goldstein's approach. Still working after 8 years and I still need them. The distance I travelled through Goldstein's maze was only limited by cost and availability of drugs> Regards> Windsor----- Original Message ----- >