Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Yes, I for one have experienced persistant insomnia while taking and after discontinuation of SSRIs. When I do sleep it's often shallow, unfufilling (I wake up more tired than I was when I went to bed) and full of extremely disturbing nightmares. I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Yes. My sleep has been significantly altered. Prior to SSRI's I never experienced insomnia, my sleep felt deeply restful and restorative, my dreams were rarely disturbing and I could make sense of the content of my dreams in light the events of my life and my concerns at the time. I could also easily take a nap at any time I wanted. During my three years on Prozac, I was able to sleep well through the night and wake up feeling rested in spite of the fact that I nightmares much of the time. Though the content of my nightmares varied, the process always involved the gradual loss of my mobility or sight. Like I was getting M.S. or slowly going blind. These dreams were alarming to me, but I normalized them by arriving at the interpretation that I was simply more aware than before of the fact that while asleep one really cannot see (my eyes are closed) or walk (I'm lying down). So I chose to normalize these awful dreams. Sometimes now I think the nightmares represented my brain's way of crying for help, of trying to alert me to ongoing sensory losses of some kind. Since stopping Prozac ten years ago, the quality of my sleep has never returned to what it was before the medication. I frequently am unable to get to sleep for hours, and feel that I am not fully relaxed when I do sleep. I think my inability to relax fully while sleeping is related to my sexual numbness in that, as per many previous posts here, one needs to give in fully to relaxation to experience sexual pleasure. I simply physiologically seem unable to relax at will as I could before. At times I have felt more upset about this than my sexual numbness. I've tried many perscription sleep aids but all give me a headache and do not help sleep. Benedryl works OK, but can only be used occasionally, as with frequent use the sedating effects wear off. Selegiline has definitely improved greatly the quality of my sleep. It has become more deeply restorative. However I've learned that dosing is important. If I go above 1.25 mg per day I get insomnia. Recently, I've been on vacation with very little stress and lots of physical activity. You'd think I'd have slept well. But I had raised the Selegiline dose to 2.5 mg.the previous week to see if I could get any more improvement in my sexual responsiveness (I seemed to have hit a plateau with no further improvement in sexual sensation after four months at 1.25 mg.). However the result was four nights in a row of lying fully awake with my eyes closed listening to my sweetheart snore. I've stopped the Selegiline for the time being but probably will go back to 1.25 mg. after I see what improvements might be maintained now without it. I am still taking testosterone daily. Velden > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this > drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 How long did you take SSRIs? > > > Yes, I for one have experienced persistant insomnia while taking and after > discontinuation of SSRIs. When I do sleep it's often shallow, unfufilling (I > wake up more tired than I was when I went to bed) and full of extremely > disturbing nightmares. > > In a message dated 09/01/2006 07:54:51 GMT Standard Time, php_3@y... > writes: > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this > drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 This is really interesting. The main reason I started taking ssris was insomnia due to anxiety. I had, and still have, the awful problem of waking up about 4 or 5 hours after falling asleep and not being able to get back to sleep. I am often awake as the sun rises, and I end up just waiting for my alarm to go off. Paxil did not help this problem whatsoever, and prozac helped minimally. Sleep aids help me fall asleep, but I will just wake up feeling very drugged. Also, I have the same problem in that it's basically impossible for me to take a nap, no matter how tired i am. But this too was the case for me before ssri's, so it's hard for me to tell exactly what effect they had on my sleep since it was so abnormal to begin with. I did have more vivid dreams, especially on paxil, but I wouldn't describe them as nightmares...maybe only once did I have a disturbing dream on paxil. I wouldn't be surprised if ssri's could affect sleep architecture in the long term: for example, plasma serotonin levels are supposed to fall dramatically during certain stages of sleep (deep sleep I think). I always wondered whether ssri's altered the histaminergic system, I know that serotonin does influence that system in the brain normally. > > > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this > > drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems > > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Interesting. I guess when we were hunter-gatherers way back when, fasting was a regular occurrence simply because we didn't always have food available. Today we can have a constant supply of calories whenever we want, but maybe our bodies weren't designed for that. For the record, my sleep has been of consistently poor quality ever since I quit celexa. Vornan > > > > > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects > > after coming off this > > > drug. But have a lot of people experience > > persistant sleep problems > > > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Yes. Here's an interesting discussion on this topic. Apparently SSRIs can screw up the production of melatonin by the pineal gland (among other things). http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm Vornan I wouldn't be surprised if ssri's could affect sleep > architecture in the long term: for example, plasma serotonin levels > are supposed to fall dramatically during certain stages of sleep > (deep sleep I think). I always wondered whether ssri's altered the > histaminergic system, I know that serotonin does influence that > system in the brain normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Anybody tried Tryptophan or 5-HTP before bed for insomnia? If we are deficient in serotonin this would be one way to increase it. Likewise taking tyrosine first thing in the morning would elevate dopamine and norepinephrine levels. Vornan -- In SSRIsex , " php_3 " <php_3@y...> wrote: > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this > drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Here's more on that: http://smart-drugs.net/ias-tryptophan-article.htm Tryptophan the anti-depressive " The published research of S.N. Young and H.M. Praag (two of the world's chief experts on tryptophan-serotonin metabolism and psychobiology), suggest that tryptophan will likely be of most benefit to people suffering from depression of the type that Young refers to as " anxious-agitated. " Young notes that increased brain production of serotonin through tryptophan supplementation does not automatically increase serotonin nerve activity. Young's research indicates that at low levels of psychobiologic arousal, there will be adequate neuronal serotonin to support the correlative low-level serotonin nerve activity, even when nerve serotonin levels are low. At higher levels of arousal, however, the more rapid turnover of serotonin in the synaptic gap will require higher levels of serotonin production to adequately maintain the greater activity of serotonin circuits. Those suffering depression of a more vegetative, passive, quiescent variety Young refers to as the " apathetic inhibited " type. Given that serotonin neural circuits frequently serve to counterbalance the arousing activating dopamine/ noradrenaline circuits (the neural circuits cocaine and amphetamine and to a lesser extent coffee serve to activate), Young's observations make perfect sense. Anxious, agitated depression occurs when a person's dopamine/ noradrenaline activating arousal circuits (Yang) are functioning strongly, without the calming, relaxing, mellowing serotonin circuits (Yin) functioning strongly as a complementary counterbalance. Tryptophan provides the anxious agitated depressive with that needed " Yin " counterbalance, restoring a sense of well being and behavioral self-control. Van Praag's research has shown that for many people suffering depression, combining the amino-acid tyrosine with tryptophan works much better than taking tryptophan alone. These would be Young's " apathetic inhibited " types, where both the serotonin tranquility/ well-being circuits and the " get up and go " vigorous action dopamine/ noradrenaline circuits are underactive. Tyrosine is the precursor for both dopamine and noradrenaline. The enzyme that converts tyrosine to its next step on the dopamine- noradrenaline pathway (tyrosine hydroxylase) is normally at least 25% unsaturated (i.e. 25% " idle " ), so that providing supplemental tyrosine (100 to 500mg with meals) unregulated brain dopamine/ noradrenaline production and nerve activity. The increased dopamine/ noradrenaline neural activity then requires greater complementary serotonin neural activity, which is provided by the tryptophan supplementation. " > > > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects after coming off this > > drug. But have a lot of people experience persistant sleep problems > > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I've had trouble falling asleep for a while, mostly the falling asleep part. But it's gotten quite a bit worse after my trial of buspar several months ago. I have to dose 6mg of melatonin to sleep now... I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like it makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > > Interesting. I guess when we were hunter-gatherers way back when, > fasting was a regular occurrence simply because we didn't always > have food available. Today we can have a constant supply of > calories whenever we want, but maybe our bodies weren't designed for > that. > > For the record, my sleep has been of consistently poor quality ever > since I quit celexa. > > Vornan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 How did the tryptophan effect sexual function? I just tried 1 gram last night, and it helped with sleep a little bit, but I don't want to take it if it makes the sd worse. Vornan > I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like it > makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Abigail, Thanks for your response and your thoughts about managing insomnia. I'm intrigued with the water-fasting idea and have done a bit of reading online about Bragg and do agree with his position that we tend to eat far more calories than we need and that we need some way to give our bodies a break to cleanse from all the toxins from pesticides in our food, etc. Did you sleep better just the nights after your fasting, or do you mean you've generally slept better overall since you've been doing this? Velden > > > > > > I read a lot on persistant sexual side effects > > after coming off this > > > drug. But have a lot of people experience > > persistant sleep problems > > > (insomnia) after taking SSRIs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I tried finding tryptophan at vitaminshoppe today but could only find 5htp. where can you get them ? or they same stuff? When I was looking around I found Amino Acid Complex which had most amino acids in them, maybe they are good for us? Ive realized I already had them at home, 100% Whey protein, which on the nutritional value which says TYPICAL NATURALLY AMINO ACID PER SERVING OCCUR with list of all the amino acids? Im wondering if it is the same thing as Amino Acid Complex pills. > > How did the tryptophan effect sexual function? I just tried 1 gram > last night, and it helped with sleep a little bit, but I don't want to > take it if it makes the sd worse. > > Vornan > > > > I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like > it > > makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 It seemed to make me even more numb which was one of the main issues I've been having. > > How did the tryptophan effect sexual function? I just tried 1 gram > last night, and it helped with sleep a little bit, but I don't want to > take it if it makes the sd worse. > > Vornan > > > > I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like > it > > makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Some good natural sources of Tryptophan are brown rice,cottage cheese,turkey,peanuts and soy protein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 hi ron,it is legal to sell pharmaceutical grade l-tryptophan online now. i got some from here:http://www.physicianformulas.com/store/Scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct=154 & name=Tryptophan-60vornan--- In SSRIsex , ronrsr@a... wrote:>> > no, it's not -- l-tryptophan can't be sold in the US anymore after a > contamination problem a few years back. > > Try a vitamin company outside the US. > > > bests, > > -rsr-> In a message dated 1/10/2006 8:48:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > zoloftscrwd4life@y... writes:> > I tried finding tryptophan at vitaminshoppe today but could only find > 5htp. where can you get them ? or they same stuff? When I was looking> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Here's another article about L-Tryptophan. I should mention that if someone is still taking an SSRI, they should NOT take tryptophan. http://www.thecompounder.com/LTryptophanReturns.html Vornan -- In SSRIsex , " v0rnan19 " <vornan19@g...> wrote: > > > hi ron, > > it is legal to sell pharmaceutical grade l-tryptophan online now. i got some from here: > > http://www.physicianformulas.com/store/Scripts/prodview.asp? idproduct=154 & name=Tryptophan-60 > > vornan > > > > > > > no, it's not -- l-tryptophan can't be sold in the US anymore after a > > contamination problem a few years back. > > > > Try a vitamin company outside the US. > > > > > > bests, > > > > -rsr- > > In a message dated 1/10/2006 8:48:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > zoloftscrwd4life@y... writes: > > > > I tried finding tryptophan at vitaminshoppe today but could only find > > 5htp. where can you get them ? or they same stuff? When I was looking > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 That's weird. I wonder if it means you have too much serotonin in your case? Vornan > > It seemed to make me even more numb which was one of the main issues > I've been having. > > > > > How did the tryptophan effect sexual function? I just tried 1 gram > > last night, and it helped with sleep a little bit, but I don't want to > > take it if it makes the sd worse. > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like > > it > > > makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Tryptophan is found in normal food or protein powders but it's not the same as taking it separately. If you take it as a capsule on an empty stomach or with some carbs (like fruit) you get much higher absorbtion and utilization because it doesn't have to compete with the other amino acids. Tryptophan is safer than 5HTP, but more expensive. > > > > How did the tryptophan effect sexual function? I just tried 1 gram > > last night, and it helped with sleep a little bit, but I don't want > to > > take it if it makes the sd worse. > > > > Vornan > > > > > > > I've been trying tryptophan per a recommendation, but it seems like > > it > > > makes the sexual dysfunction worse. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Maybe I do, my emotional range and enjoyment of things is still alot less than it should be. This sleeping problem and winter depression I've been having has taken its toll on me. I feel like I've lost some gains I made, perhaps I'll be better come spring. > That's weird. I wonder if it means you have too much serotonin in > your case? > > Vornan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I was looking through " natures prozac " by judith sachs.For insomnia she suggests a " sleep coctail " of warm milk placed in a blender with a banana saying both ingredients contain tryptophan the amino acid that relaxes muscles and promotes good sleep. Maybe thats a simple way to help anyone with insomnia or maybe taking tryptophan supplements just before bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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