Guest guest Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 yeah, who knows? I have the same infection as my friend, and she's hyperthyroid and I'm hypo. She eats all day and can't gain weight, I eat less than she does and gain weight easily. Our symptoms manifest very differently, but we also share many of the same symptoms. Our infections also respond very differently to the abx. Even my own daughter and I respond differently to drugs. The body responds based on a number of factors, including genetic make up, I suppose. penny > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now stabilised] .This bit of > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart beats faster > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart rate I did > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP in response > to infection ,. anyone? > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, either > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, which in effect > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds which supply > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from receiving the > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition can occur in > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is included > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such that the > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood flow. > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may include > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. Another synonym > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . This > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the blood > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a reflex, > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, which produces > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional stroke, can > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 You asked the why some have high BP while others have low BP- wouldn't the state of the heart as in the cheney model- shows different stages of heart failure, give some hint of what is going wrong. Also the age of the patinet and the distribution of the disease would make a difference surely to the BP, it also surprises me that the greek word for high blood pressure is 'pus in the blood'..Maybe it's the amount of active infection as opposed to dry rot infection that carries some of these BP variations. By the way I alway's thought you had a heart infection if you sat in the 90/50, 80/50 range that many cfser's show. > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > stabilised] .This bit of > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > beats faster > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart > rate I did > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP in > response > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, > either > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, which > in effect > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > which supply > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > receiving the > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition can > occur in > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is > included > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such that > the > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood flow. > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > include > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > Another synonym > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . This > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the > blood > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a > reflex, > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, which > produces > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional stroke, > can > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 This has always really bothered me, doctor's ignoring low bp. My bp has been under 100 since my early twenties (when I started going to doctors) and they always told me how great this was. I always felt that they were wrong, that I was fatigued in part due to my bp being so low. Low bp is a definite marker for heart disease, but docs always disregard it, unless you've got other heart or disease symptoms. Wouldn't it be nice if they'd look at low bp before you actually get really sick or have obvious heart disease? penny > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > > beats faster > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart > > rate I did > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP > in > > response > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, > > either > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, > which > > in effect > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > > which supply > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > > receiving the > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition > can > > occur in > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is > > included > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such > that > > the > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood > flow. > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > > include > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > > Another synonym > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . > This > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the > > blood > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a > > reflex, > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, > which > > produces > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > stroke, > > can > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 Yes we all respond in different ways , & maybe it's the amount of active infection ...I know that the incidence of high BP is increasing exponentially the docs have no idea as to the cause in 95% of cases.. They call it essential hypertension ..But then they don't understand stealth infections !! It does seem a fundamental to me... to my mind we should react to infection in more or less the same way , we all share the basic say ten symptoms ..but a cross sample of those infected will show differing BP from extreme low to extreme high ...that's strange...I know that my BP & HR climbed when my infection increased . Is that how we should respond or do the low's have it? what can we read into this amazing situation .. -----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of dumbaussie2000Sent: 08 August 2005 18:48infections Subject: [infections] Re: Infectious shock & BPYou asked the why some have high BP while others have low BP- wouldn't the state of the heart as in the cheney model- shows different stages of heart failure, give some hint of what is going wrong. Also the age of the patinet and the distribution of the disease would make a difference surely to the BP, it also surprises me that the greek word for high blood pressure is 'pus in the blood'..Maybe it's the amount of active infection as opposed to dry rot infection that carries some of these BP variations.By the way I alway's thought you had a heart infection if you sat in the 90/50, 80/50 range that many cfser's show.> > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > stabilised] .This bit of> > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected..> > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > beats faster> > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart > rate I did> > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP in > response> > to infection ,. anyone?> > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, > either> > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, which > in effect> > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > which supply> > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > receiving the> > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called> > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition can > occur in> > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is > included> > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such that > the> > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood flow.> > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > include> > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > Another synonym> > in "medical jargon" for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse". This> > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the > blood> > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a > reflex,> > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, which > produces> > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional stroke, > can> > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock.> > > > > > --> > No virus found in this outgoing message.> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.> > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 I know that when I am herxing, my heart rate rises very high and my bp plummets to the floor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > > beats faster > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart > > rate I did > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP > in > > response > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, > > either > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, > which > > in effect > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > > which supply > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > > receiving the > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition > can > > occur in > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is > > included > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such > that > > the > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood > flow. > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > > include > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > > Another synonym > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . > This > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the > > blood > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a > > reflex, > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, > which > > produces > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > stroke, > > can > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > > 04/08/2005 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hi and Penny Well I have had both. Low BP in the earlier years, high BP more recently. When experiencing a marked worsening of symptoms like reaction to heat, breaking down fibrin, and die off I can have a very big gap between the two numbers. Having had to take a break from the die off a while back I concentrated on the basics again. Reuperat-ion electrolytes and vitamin D seems to have made a lot of things more stable including my BP, and so far the vit D appears to have lowered the degree of inflammation I have. Cheers, Tansy > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > > beats faster > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased heart > > rate I did > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in BP > in > > response > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some toxin, > > either > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, > which > > in effect > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > > which supply > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > > receiving the > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition > can > > occur in > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group is > > included > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such > that > > the > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood > flow. > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > > include > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > > Another synonym > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . > This > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in the > > blood > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, a > > reflex, > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, > which > > produces > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > stroke, > > can > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > > 04/08/2005 > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Penny In paediatric medicine 'stiff neck' is the worst of the worst conditions to watch out for in all the literature. Many present to doctors with stiff neck and no-one seems to give a rats as_ in the medical setting. It now becomes an arthritis issue- (easy cop out). The problem is that many have the light sensitivity as well which is also the holly grail of serious infection, yet it's also played down to a non event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when infected.. > > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the heart > > > beats faster > > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased > heart > > > rate I did > > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in > BP > > in > > > response > > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some > toxin, > > > either > > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, > > which > > > in effect > > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular beds > > > which supply > > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > > > receiving the > > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This condition > > can > > > occur in > > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this group > is > > > included > > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, such > > that > > > the > > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood > > flow. > > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > > > include > > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > > > Another synonym > > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor Collapse " . > > This > > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in > the > > > blood > > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for example, > a > > > reflex, > > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, > > which > > > produces > > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > > stroke, > > > can > > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release Date: > > > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Yes, good point. I've had a stiff neck since childhood, and no one ever paid any attention. Only in the last year has my stiff neck disappeared. Along with the other aches and pains including a badly aching (arthritic) knee. It's not popular to say around here, but that's due to Benicar. Ortho's do say stiff necks are due to arthritis. My ortho said that the rotator cuff problem I have is also due to arthritis. I disagree. I believe it's a restricted blood flow problem. Maybe the knee too, since taping magnets on my knee always eliminated the pain, probably due to increased blood circulation in the area (that's the only thing I can see that magnets are doing). The ortho said that my left shoulder was completely frozen and that the cortisone shot he gave me would probably not help. It did help, tremendously. I then went to a PT who said we could unfreeze that shoulder w/o surgery. (the ortho said I would need a pretty nasty ripping apart procedure to unfreeze the shoulder which would need 3 months to heal before I could then have rotator cuff surgery to remove the large bone spurs). The PT unfroze it substantially in just one gentle session of manipulation (after the shot). I had much better mobility when I left his office. Couldn't believe it considering how horrible the shoulder's been for the last few years. I start PT tomorrow and am looking forward to proving the ortho wrong. However, I've still got two bone spurs to deal with, which are causing the lack of mobility. Any ideas on how to rid oneself of bone spurs w/o surgery? That's some kind of over calcification? I feel really sure that my blood flow to the region has been bad. Neck too. I think it's all related to the migraines as well. penny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when > infected.. > > > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the > heart > > > > beats faster > > > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased > > heart > > > > rate I did > > > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences in > > BP > > > in > > > > response > > > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some > > toxin, > > > > either > > > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to dilate, > > > which > > > > in effect > > > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular > beds > > > > which supply > > > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs from > > > > receiving the > > > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is called > > > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This > condition > > > can > > > > occur in > > > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this > group > > is > > > > included > > > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, > such > > > that > > > > the > > > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient blood > > > flow. > > > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity may > > > > include > > > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and macroglobulinemia. > > > > Another synonym > > > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor > Collapse " . > > > This > > > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop in > > the > > > > blood > > > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for > example, > > a > > > > reflex, > > > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal reflex, > > > which > > > > produces > > > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > > > stroke, > > > > can > > > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release > Date: > > > > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Just wanted to add that I think the reduction of inflammation (due to Benicar) is allowing better blood flow, which is the reason my migraines have all but disappeared (one a month now), no more stiff neck, my knee no longer hurts, even my shoulders improved a great, (andthey were REALLY bad off to begin with). It's odd, when I saw the Tibetan doc, he said he wasn't picking up a great deal of inflammation. I said, yeah, maybe because for almost a year I've been taking 4 times the normal amount of a drug as an experimental anti-inflammatory and it's been working! And yet, my blood markers, CRP and homocysteine are showing elevated inflammation. I know I've read about this phenomenon before, these markers suddenly showing up, and when I have more time, I'd like to learn more about it. Anyone point me in the right direction? This is not an encouraging report. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1523-3804/2/110/abstract Nor this one: I've got high cholesterol, high CRP and high homocysteine. All risk factors for stroke or heart attack. :-( http://www.westsubcardiology.com/pages/general/newrisk.htm penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Penny I have cervical bone spurs, in my case due to displaced vertebrae which then led to the usual disc problems and degenerative arthritis. A good PT can give you simple movements to do which strengthen the supporting structures these not only treat the bone spurs but help to keep them from reforming. Ironically being able get some benefits from doing these only occurred recently when I finally got my inflammation levels down with vit D and enzymes (aimed at controlling fibrinogen too). Movement's still restricted but the best it's been for many years, There's a book which desribes how to treat your own neck, some of the movements in that help to keep the neck strong and mobile so are preventative too. There a well known osteopath in the UK who treats and researches problems with lymph drainage in ME/CFS and other similar illnesses. Perrin's work goes some way to explaining why die off, and releasing too much at once when breaking down years of fibrin build up, just became counterproductive for others as well as myself. Good luck with the PT, for many this is the only treatment that's required. Cheers, Tansy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some report low BP & some high BP as myself [now > > > > > stabilised] .This bit of > > > > > > info goes someway in explaining what is happing when > > infected.. > > > > > > I have read that when the brain is starved of oxygen the > > heart > > > > > beats faster > > > > > > to compensate... hypercoagulation = high BP with increased > > > heart > > > > > rate I did > > > > > > seem to follow this model , But why the vast differences > in > > > BP > > > > in > > > > > response > > > > > > to infection ,. anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > Another, not infrequent, cause of SHOCK occurs when some > > > toxin, > > > > > either > > > > > > infectious or allergic, causes the blood vessels to > dilate, > > > > which > > > > > in effect > > > > > > shunts the blood away from the vital organs into vascular > > beds > > > > > which supply > > > > > > less essential tissues, thus depriving the vital organs > from > > > > > receiving the > > > > > > blood they need to sustain life. This type of SHOCK is > called > > > > > > MALDISTRIBUTION of flow or DISTRIBUTIVE SHOCK. This > > condition > > > > can > > > > > occur in > > > > > > burns or acute pancreatitis, as other examples. In this > > group > > > is > > > > > included > > > > > > those conditions where the blood viscosity is thickened, > > such > > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > microcirculation is impeded, resulting in insufficient > blood > > > > flow. > > > > > > Conditions that thicken the blood and increase viscosity > may > > > > > include > > > > > > Polycythemia vera, multiple myeloma, and > macroglobulinemia. > > > > > Another synonym > > > > > > in " medical jargon " for this condition is Vasomotor > > Collapse " . > > > > This > > > > > > condition is often suspected when there is a drastic drop > in > > > the > > > > > blood > > > > > > pressure accompanied by a slow pulse. In trauma, for > > example, > > > a > > > > > reflex, > > > > > > involving the vagus nerve, will initiate a vasovagal > reflex, > > > > which > > > > > produces > > > > > > a slow pulse. Neurogenic shock, occurring in an occasional > > > > stroke, > > > > > can > > > > > > manifest a vasodilatation resulting in distributive shock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.1/64 - Release > > Date: > > > > > 04/08/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks much, Tansy. I used to have severe spinal disc problems, and PT saved me from surgery. Traction did it for me, despite all the specialist's dire warnings. I look back and believe that my infection was probably contributing to the back problem as well. Not to mention, possibly a deficiency in D. I hated milk from age 4 on, and I lived in Oregon, not known for its sunshine, so perhaps that contributed. I am going to add vitamin D. So completely contrary to one unnameable protocol's position, but you don't seem to be the only one who's benefitting from supplementing D, and now that my tests show a definite defeciency, and after reading all of Ken's research, I'm going to try it too. Avoiding D and sun didn't seem to benefit me at all except that I liked not getting overheated. But after a while, I started feeling like an albino, or vampire, actually bothered by light, and I've always been a light lover, so I'm glad I dropped that whole thing. My daughter on the other hand felt better when avoiding sunlight and D, but she's doing better now, after knocking down her infection with the minocyline, and is tolerating sun much better. It used to induce migraines in her. The Protandem I'm taking is actually made of enzymes which are precursors to antioxidants that your body creates, so I'm trying to see if those are going to be of benefit, as I can never decide which enzymes to take when at my health food store. I've taken digestive enzymes in the past with no noticeable effects, except for very short lived ones when dealing with stomach pain caused by aspirin related products. If I kept taking the enzymes every 2 hours or so, I could reduce the pain a little, so obviously, they were having some effect. I've thought about Wobenzymes, but never get around to ordering. I know Barb benefitted from those, in between her amx therapies. The thing that concerns me about these bone spurs, which are quite large, is that their position apparently creates a lack of space for free movement. The compression caused by the spurs puts pressure on nerves, etc., and as a result I lose mobility because of the pain. Apparently, the ortho said you have to move the arms despite the pain, which I didn't even consider being a good idea, but is the reason my shoulder ended up frozen. Interestingly, another person wrote to me about zinc defeciencies being related to this shoulder problem, and that's one of the things that showed up on my tests. So perhaps the D and zinc combo will help reverse the problem? I just hope the spurs can somehow dissolve? penny > Penny > > I have cervical bone spurs, in my case due to displaced vertebrae > which then led to the usual disc problems and degenerative arthritis. > A good PT can give you simple movements to do which strengthen the > supporting structures these not only treat the bone spurs but help to > keep them from reforming. > > Ironically being able get some benefits from doing these only > occurred recently when I finally got my inflammation levels down with > vit D and enzymes (aimed at controlling fibrinogen too). Movement's > still restricted but the best it's been for many years, There's a > book which desribes how to treat your own neck, some of the movements > in that help to keep the neck strong and mobile so are preventative > too. > > There a well known osteopath in the UK who treats and researches > problems with lymph drainage in ME/CFS and other similar illnesses. > Perrin's work goes some way to explaining why die off, and > releasing too much at once when breaking down years of fibrin build > up, just became counterproductive for others as well as myself. > > Good luck with the PT, for many this is the only treatment that's > required. > > Cheers, Tansy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Penny High homocysteine can be treated with B vits etc, even if you have normal blood levels. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4677 C-reactive protein I've already posted on before, - links with vits C and D. Despite obvious signs of inflammation many taking vit C are testing negative to raised CRP. Essential fatty acids, especially omega 3 can help rebalance LDL and HDL. http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/0,1525,992,00.ht ml There's feedback on treatments at remedy find http://remedyfind.com/hc-HighCholesterol.asp?long=1 Statins and red rice yeast reduce Co Q 10 levels, Co Q 10 is often already low in these DDs and is actually being used to treat some heart conditions. High cholesterol (LDL) is frequently found in lyme disease, metabolic syndrome, and a host of other chronic illnesses. Cheers, Tansy > Just wanted to add that I think the reduction of inflammation (due > to Benicar) is allowing better blood flow, which is the reason my > migraines have all but disappeared (one a month now), no more stiff > neck, my knee no longer hurts, even my shoulders improved a great, > (andthey were REALLY bad off to begin with). > > It's odd, when I saw the Tibetan doc, he said he wasn't picking up a > great deal of inflammation. I said, yeah, maybe because for almost a > year I've been taking 4 times the normal amount of a drug as an > experimental anti-inflammatory and it's been working! And yet, my > blood markers, CRP and homocysteine are showing elevated > inflammation. I know I've read about this phenomenon before, these > markers suddenly showing up, and when I have more time, I'd like to > learn more about it. Anyone point me in the right direction? > > This is not an encouraging report. > > http://www.biomedcentral.com/1523-3804/2/110/abstract > > Nor this one: I've got high cholesterol, high CRP and high > homocysteine. All risk factors for stroke or heart attack. :-( > > http://www.westsubcardiology.com/pages/general/newrisk.htm > > penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Yes, I've used all these at various times. Still using C and bs, as I've always been able to feel effects from these. I'm going to add D. Maybe I need to revisit some kind of EFA. I've been doing coconut oil and flax seed oil in the past, but my doc wants me to do cod liver oil, which is not my favorite. I may have to buy the capsules, but I'm taking so many frikkin' pills now, that I've got major resistance in the form of forgetting to go to the store and buying them! I do eat a lot of salmon, which is supposed to be good, but apparently not good enough. I've had high cholesterol since testing positive for being hypothryoid (this is almost across the board for hypo patients). The only difference is one of my numbers was always very good, so the docs didn't care as my overall ratio was good. Now both numbers are high, which is not so good. Maybe. I've done a lot of research that shows that the cholesterol is probably functioning to protect us from the effects of the infection. And really, a huge percentage of people who have heart attacks have completely normal cholesterol, so that link is not holding up all that well any more. Thanks Tansy for all the helpful input and the info on the books. Those sound good (and I share a maiden name with one of them :-). penny > > Just wanted to add that I think the reduction of inflammation (due > > to Benicar) is allowing better blood flow, which is the reason my > > migraines have all but disappeared (one a month now), no more stiff > > neck, my knee no longer hurts, even my shoulders improved a great, > > (andthey were REALLY bad off to begin with). > > > > It's odd, when I saw the Tibetan doc, he said he wasn't picking up > a > > great deal of inflammation. I said, yeah, maybe because for almost > a > > year I've been taking 4 times the normal amount of a drug as an > > experimental anti-inflammatory and it's been working! And yet, my > > blood markers, CRP and homocysteine are showing elevated > > inflammation. I know I've read about this phenomenon before, these > > markers suddenly showing up, and when I have more time, I'd like to > > learn more about it. Anyone point me in the right direction? > > > > This is not an encouraging report. > > > > http://www.biomedcentral.com/1523-3804/2/110/abstract > > > > Nor this one: I've got high cholesterol, high CRP and high > > homocysteine. All risk factors for stroke or heart attack. :-( > > > > http://www.westsubcardiology.com/pages/general/newrisk.htm > > > > penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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