Re: hello dear fellow lymies

February 2, 2010

Welcome Debbie,

Its pretty clear you've done your research! And now you're asking hard questions! lol I've also wondered if at the very least we should employ abx, natural or otherwise, in an effort to 'shelve' some of the bugs until we can get our head above water and take some unnecessary stress off our bodies. I think in really bad cases this might make sense.

Between natural and pharma abx I still lean towards natural. I haven't used pharma drugs for this but when natural has been so effective in treating lyme I don't understand the logic in using something synthetic which has no energetic healing components to it, is far more toxic, and expensive. Lyme is one of the hardest infections to treat and the very fact that natural abx are healing people is proof to me they're not "little guns".

We're all so unique its hard to know what suggestions to make to another. I've known for a while i've got viruses, parasites, fungus,and bacteria all going on in me at the same time. Some docs target one infection in hopes the others were just opportunistic and fade away and others go at all of em at once. I just returned from a Dr. K clinic visit in Seattle and they are having me address all infectious componenets of my illness at the same time. I don't know if this is their theory to treatment or just what I muscle tested for.

It seems unless we have access to an ART practitioner or other well trained muscle tester we're stuck trying various things and seeing how they work for us. Too bad its so expensive and time consuming.

Again welcome to our group!

Thane

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Tue, February 2, 2010 1:59:24 PMSubject: hello dear fellow lymies

Hi friends,I wanted to introduce myself as I have been reading the last 2 weeks and am attempting to post. I just wrote a very long post which I accidentally just hit the wrong key and deleted. Uggghh!! Anyway, I'm Debbie, a 49 year old mother of 5 (4 college age or older) and I just learned this summer through a positive WB test what the root cause of the weird and terrible symptoms I have had most of my life! I remember my heart racing at age 3 and light hurting my eyes. Reading the posts is like looking in the mirror! And I am so happy to have found such a caring and helpful group as I have been "on my own" for most of my 15 year health journey. I only have a couple hours of energy each day for typing, thinking, studying, minor chores, etc. but I hope to become a more contributing member!I have major bodywide muscle pain and weakness, profound fatigue and cognitive problems, some neurological stuff like tremors and have had a few

small seizures, sensitivity to noise and light and eye pain, headaches, etc. Although my joints have little pain, just crackling ! happy for that!About 95% of the muscles above my shoulder blades and in my neck have turned to scar tissue and now I know why! I have had weekly sessions of neural therapy (about 70 shots of procaine which dissolves scar tissue) Dr. K trained most the docs in the country for this. After 60 sessions, we are just getting down to the bones in some spots where it was plastered to my ribs and spine in the neck.Paydirt! and am starting to be able to move the shoulder, but the problem is there is no muscle in there to move anything, but is less painful and hopefully is freeing up nerves to the organs, etc. I will get a neck brace next week to hold my head up I hope. I guess this is lyme damage and I hope not an indicator of what my brain and other parts have gone through.In trying to get a handle on lyme

treatments I have Rosner's book on the Top 10 treatments and rife. We got a rife machine from the dear man in upstate New York and have tried it 4x. It really calms my brain down but then feel sick for a few days. It's great that I have many of the natural type treatments for years which people do for lyme but now have questions about antibiotics tha I would love feedback on. I realize they are only opinions and I will be respionsible for the decision! In studying, I see the big probs with pharma stuff--the hiding it causes after awhile, the resistance, and t damage to probiotics. I know Rosner and Connie Stasheim don't seem to recommend it as it if often prescribed. I was surprised to read in Connie's book of Insights to Lyme Treatments that even the most naturally minded docs seems to say antibiotics were very eseential in their view. I have had symptoms my whole life so I am def a chonic case. I did see an LLMD in Nashville TN

who is being trained by Horowitz, etc. and his program is some straight/not pulsed abx. I am unsure if I want to do his protocol if the bacteria is just going to hide. But I wonder, is it worth the benefit of just having it go dormant for awhile? Is that why many docs still recommend it? I really have alot of bad symptoms--I wonder if that would make pharma abx more necessary for awhile to give the body a break? Of course I would do as much natural stuff as I can. And in the book they seemed to call the herbal abx (little guns) and pharma (big guns) as if it was much better. Of course I do have the Enem machine and seem to be getting some herxs and know you have to be patient. I just feel so on my own in making the right choice--a perhaps I will just have trial and error! Well, thanks for any input you wonderful Lymie friends you!Blessings,Debbie

February 2, 2010

Hi Debbie,Welcome to the group. Many of our stories, including mine, are similar to yours!

It's great that I have many of the natural type treatments for years which people do for lyme but now have questions about antibiotics tha I would love feedback on. I realize they are only opinions and I will be respionsible for the decision!

Knowing that I've had Lyme over 20 years, I chose not to do abx. My thoughts were, from the reading, that my Lyme is too deep and complex now and why destroy anymore good stuff. I've read of some people completely recovering with abx - maybe they are the recently bit?

In studying, I see the big probs with pharma stuff--the hiding it causes after awhile, the resistance, and t damage to probiotics. I know Rosner and Connie Stasheim don't seem to recommend it as it if often prescribed. I was surprised to read in Connie's book of Insights to Lyme Treatments that even the most naturally minded docs seems to say antibiotics were very eseential in their view. I think they do this because their hands are tied. They cannot recommend rife machines, or many other treatments. So far, I've found more useful info from patients rather than doctors. That being said, you need a good doctor or two to help you along in this journey. I have had symptoms my whole life so I am def a chonic case. I did see an LLMD in Nashville TN who is being trained by Horowitz, etc. and his program is some straight/not pulsed abx. I am unsure if I want to do his protocol if the bacteria is just going to hide. But I wonder, is it worth the benefit of just having it go dormant for awhile? Is that why many docs still recommend it? I really have alot of bad symptoms--I wonder if that would make pharma abx more necessary for awhile to give the body a break? Of course I would do as much natural stuff as I can. And in the book they seemed to call the herbal abx (little guns) and pharma (big guns) as if it was much better. If you do decide to do abx, please thoroughly research the family of abx that Levaquin is in. This family of drugs is causing many debilitating side effects, some permanent. That's all us lymies need - more problems :-0

Of course I do have the Enem machine and seem to be getting some herxs and know you have to be patient. I just feel so on my own in making the right choice--a perhaps I will just have trial and error! Trial and error - that's for sure. Good thing we are here together to share experiences. :-) I decided on the Doug Coil device, so far I am very happy with it. I've been coiling for babesia since May and Lyme since Sept. I didn't coil in Jan thinking I'd aggresively treat with MMS for the co-infections. I'm now thinking that was a mistake and am back to coiling and feeling better (in between herxes).

Well, thanks for any input you wonderful Lymie friends you!

Blessings,

Debbie

February 2, 2010

Hi Debbie,

Welcome,

It seems like you are already on the right path. I would say that since you

have had lyme for so long there is no need rush into abx now. I think it would

probably benefit you the most now to see if your thyroid adrenals are in order

for your energy and hit the detox heavy.

Are the herxes tolerable from the rife?

I myself did abx for two years and although they did give me some relief it did

not come fast and I have spent the last year and a half trying to undo the

damage.

I did have great relief from the nutramedix herbs. I used the Sawmento and

Cumanda, the Serrapeptase and the detox herbs. I needed to be on them the first

year while rifing otherwise I would not have been able to function and I have

two young kids and there was no alternative. I liked the Cowden because many

of the herbal abx are also antiviral and anti-inflammatory and many are even

anti-parasitic.

I now am still rifing and I mostely just detox and supplement. I really pulse

with the herbal abx when I have to.

I know many have had luck with mms and salt and C. I also think Bhuners

protocol is really impressive but did not do it myself because it seemed hard

but now you can buy the

herbals mixed in one bottle. That sound easy enough.

I had most of the symptoms you mentioned and it does get better. I don't know

if the abx will take you there any faster. If you were recently bit I would

tell you to take them but thats not the case.

I was only infected for about 8 months before I started the abx and they still

failed me. I also have three good friends who have lyme and think my rifing

and herbals is kind of a waste of time. They all are being treated with abx

by my former doctor. I am the only one getting better and I started out much

more severe.

Tamara

>

> Hi friends,

>

> I wanted to introduce myself as I have been reading the last 2 weeks and am

attempting to post. I just wrote a very long post which I accidentally just hit

the wrong key and deleted. Uggghh!! Anyway, I'm Debbie, a 49 year old mother of

5 (4 college age or older) and I just learned this summer through a positive WB

test what the root cause of the weird and terrible symptoms I have had most of

my life! I remember my heart racing at age 3 and light hurting my eyes. Reading

the posts is like looking in the mirror! And I am so happy to have found such a

caring and helpful group as I have been " on my own " for most of my 15 year

health journey. I only have a couple hours of energy each day for typing,

thinking, studying, minor chores, etc. but I hope to become a more contributing

member!

>

> I have major bodywide muscle pain and weakness, profound fatigue and cognitive

problems, some neurological stuff like tremors and have had a few small

seizures, sensitivity to noise and light and eye pain, headaches, etc.

Although my joints have little pain, just crackling ! happy for that!

>

> About 95% of the muscles above my shoulder blades and in my neck have turned

to scar tissue and now I know why! I have had weekly sessions of neural

therapy (about 70 shots of procaine which dissolves scar tissue) Dr. K trained

most the docs in the country for this. After 60 sessions, we are just getting

down to the bones in some spots where it was plastered to my ribs and spine in

the neck.

> Paydirt! and am starting to be able to move the shoulder, but the problem is

there is no muscle in there to move anything, but is less painful and hopefully

is freeing up nerves to the organs, etc. I will get a neck brace next week to

hold my head up I hope. I guess this is lyme damage and I hope not an indicator

of what my brain and other parts have gone through.

>

> In trying to get a handle on lyme treatments I have Rosner's book on the Top

10 treatments and rife. We got a rife machine from the dear man in upstate New

York and have tried it 4x. It really calms my brain down but then feel sick for

a few days.

>

> It's great that I have many of the natural type treatments for years which

people do for lyme but now have questions about antibiotics tha I would love

feedback on. I realize they are only opinions and I will be respionsible for

the decision!

>

> In studying, I see the big probs with pharma stuff--the hiding it causes after

awhile, the resistance, and t damage to probiotics. I know Rosner and

Connie Stasheim don't seem to recommend it as it if often prescribed. I was

surprised to read in Connie's book of Insights to Lyme Treatments that even the

most naturally minded docs seems to say antibiotics were very eseential in their

view. I have had symptoms my whole life so I am def a chonic case. I did see

an LLMD in Nashville TN who is being trained by Horowitz, etc. and his program

is some straight/not pulsed abx. I am unsure if I want to do his protocol if

the bacteria is just going to hide. But I wonder, is it worth the benefit of

just having it go dormant for awhile? Is that why many docs still recommend it?

I really have alot of bad symptoms--I wonder if that would make pharma abx more

necessary for awhile to give the body a break? Of course I would do as much

natural stuff as I can. And in the book they seemed to call the herbal abx

(little guns) and pharma (big guns) as if it was much better.

>

> Of course I do have the Enem machine and seem to be getting some herxs and

know you have to be patient. I just feel so on my own in making the right

choice--a perhaps I will just have trial and error!

>

> Well, thanks for any input you wonderful Lymie friends you!

>

> Blessings,

>

> Debbie

>

February 3, 2010

Welcome Debbie,

Lyme is one of the hardest infections to treat and the very fact that natural abx are healing people is proof to me they're not " little guns " .

And the inverse - Since abx aren't effective (even half the time?) I wouldn't consider them 'big guns'.

February 3, 2010

Tamara,

I did Buhner's protocol a few years ago and quit because it was a LOT of trouble. I just couldn't keep up with it all! I didn't realize that you could get all the herbs in one bottle. What is it called and who makes it?

Thanks a bunch!

Marsha

Subject: Re: hello dear fellow lymiesTo: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 4:31 PM

Hi Debbie, Welcome, It seems like you are already on the right path. I would say that since you have had lyme for so long there is no need rush into abx now. I think it would probably benefit you the most now to see if your thyroid adrenals are in order for your energy and hit the detox heavy. Are the herxes tolerable from the rife? I myself did abx for two years and although they did give me some relief it did not come fast and I have spent the last year and a half trying to undo the damage. I did have great relief from the nutramedix herbs. I used the Sawmento and Cumanda, the Serrapeptase and the detox herbs. I needed to be on them the first year while rifing otherwise I would not have been able to function and I have two young kids and there was no alternative. I liked the Cowden because many of the herbal abx are also antiviral and anti-inflammatory and many are even anti-parasitic. I now am still

rifing and I mostely just detox and supplement. I really pulse with the herbal abx when I have to. I know many have had luck with mms and salt and C. I also think Bhuners protocol is really impressive but did not do it myself because it seemed hard but now you can buy the herbals mixed in one bottle. That sound easy enough. I had most of the symptoms you mentioned and it does get better. I don't know if the abx will take you there any faster. If you were recently bit I would tell you to take them but thats not the case. I was only infected for about 8 months before I started the abx and they still failed me. I also have three good friends who have lyme and think my rifing and herbals is kind of a waste of time. They all are being treated with abx by my former doctor. I am the only one getting better and I started out much more severe. Tamara >> Hi friends,> > > I wanted to introduce myself as I have been reading the last 2 weeks and am attempting to post. I just wrote a very long post which I accidentally just hit the wrong key and deleted. Uggghh!! Anyway, I'm Debbie, a 49 year old mother of 5 (4 college age or older) and I just learned this summer through a positive WB test what the root cause of the weird and terrible symptoms I have had most of my life! I remember my heart racing at age 3 and light hurting my eyes. Reading the posts is like looking in the mirror! And I am so happy to have found such a caring and helpful group as I have been "on my own" for most of my 15 year health journey. I only have a couple

hours of energy each day for typing, thinking, studying, minor chores, etc.. but I hope to become a more contributing member!> > > I have major bodywide muscle pain and weakness, profound fatigue and cognitive problems, some neurological stuff like tremors and have had a few small seizures, sensitivity to noise and light and eye pain, headaches, etc. Although my joints have little pain, just crackling ! happy for that!> > > About 95% of the muscles above my shoulder blades and in my neck have turned to scar tissue and now I know why! I have had weekly sessions of neural therapy (about 70 shots of procaine which dissolves scar tissue) Dr. K trained most the docs in the country for this. After 60 sessions, we are just getting down to the bones in some spots where it was plastered to my ribs and spine in the neck.> Paydirt! and am starting to be able to move the shoulder, but the problem is there is no

muscle in there to move anything, but is less painful and hopefully is freeing up nerves to the organs, etc. I will get a neck brace next week to hold my head up I hope. I guess this is lyme damage and I hope not an indicator of what my brain and other parts have gone through.> > In trying to get a handle on lyme treatments I have Rosner's book on the Top 10 treatments and rife. We got a rife machine from the dear man in upstate New York and have tried it 4x. It really calms my brain down but then feel sick for a few days. > > It's great that I have many of the natural type treatments for years which people do for lyme but now have questions about antibiotics tha I would love feedback on. I realize they are only opinions and I will be respionsible for the decision! > > > In studying, I see the big probs with pharma stuff--the hiding it causes after awhile, the resistance, and t damage to probiotics. I

know Rosner and Connie Stasheim don't seem to recommend it as it if often prescribed. I was surprised to read in Connie's book of Insights to Lyme Treatments that even the most naturally minded docs seems to say antibiotics were very eseential in their view. I have had symptoms my whole life so I am def a chonic case. I did see an LLMD in Nashville TN who is being trained by Horowitz, etc. and his program is some straight/not pulsed abx. I am unsure if I want to do his protocol if the bacteria is just going to hide. But I wonder, is it worth the benefit of just having it go dormant for awhile? Is that why many docs still recommend it? I really have alot of bad symptoms--I wonder if that would make pharma abx more necessary for awhile to give the body a break? Of course I would do as much natural stuff as I can. And in the book they seemed to call the herbal abx (little guns) and pharma (big guns) as if it was much better. > > Of

course I do have the Enem machine and seem to be getting some herxs and know you have to be patient. I just feel so on my own in making the right choice--a perhaps I will just have trial and error! > > Well, thanks for any input you wonderful Lymie friends you!> > Blessings,> > Debbie >

February 3, 2010

Hi Debbie,

I am new to this group as well. I have had lyme for about 14-15 years. I have chosen to treat mine with the Doug coil as well as herbs, etc. My husband has early disseminated lyme (7 months) and he is being treated with antibiotics as well as IV ozone and UV (and another machine called the Ondamed). We are treating his more aggessively and he is going to a doctor 8 hours from here every month because he has not had lyme as long as I have. The doc also has him on several "lyme" herbs and many supplements and detox protocols (liver and heavy metals). Everyone is different and what works for one person may not work for another. But this group is great and there are so many caring and intelligent folks on here who have a wealth of knowledge and experience. Good luck with whatever you decide! Marsha (BTW, we live in Alabama and I didn't know there

was a LLMD in Nashville---who is he? You can answer in a private email if you would like. My husband is going to N.C. for treatment)

Subject: Re: hello dear fellow lymiesTo: Lyme_and_Rife Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 2:45 PM

Hi Debbie,Welcome to the group. Many of our stories, including mine, are similar to yours!

It's great that I have many of the natural type treatments for years which people do for lyme but now have questions about antibiotics tha I would love feedback on. I realize they are only opinions and I will be respionsible for the decision! Knowing that I've had Lyme over 20 years, I chose not to do abx. My thoughts were, from the reading, that my Lyme is too deep and complex now and why destroy anymore good stuff. I've read of some people completely recovering with abx - maybe they are the recently bit?In studying, I see the big probs with pharma stuff--the hiding it causes after awhile, the resistance, and t damage to probiotics. I know Rosner and Connie Stasheim don't seem to recommend it as it if often prescribed. I was surprised to read in Connie's book of Insights to Lyme Treatments that even the most naturally minded docs seems to say antibiotics were very eseential in their view. I think they do this because their hands are tied. They cannot recommend rife machines, or many other treatments. So far, I've found more useful info from patients rather than doctors. That being said, you need a good doctor or two to help you along in this journey. I have had symptoms my whole life so I am def a chonic case. I did see an LLMD in Nashville TN who is being trained by Horowitz, etc. and his program is some straight/not pulsed abx. I am unsure if I want to do his protocol if the bacteria is just going to hide. But I wonder, is it worth the benefit of just having it go dormant for awhile? Is that why many docs still recommend it? I really have alot of bad symptoms--I wonder if that would make pharma abx more necessary for awhile to give the body a break? Of course I would do as much natural stuff as I can. And in the book they seemed to call the herbal abx (little guns) and pharma (big guns) as if it was

much better. If you do decide to do abx, please thoroughly research the family of abx that Levaquin is in. This family of drugs is causing many debilitating side effects, some permanent. That's all us lymies need - more problems :-0Of course I do have the Enem machine and seem to be getting some herxs and know you have to be patient. I just feel so on my own in making the right choice--a perhaps I will just have trial and error! Trial and error - that's for sure. Good thing we are here together to share experiences. :-) I decided on the Doug Coil device, so far I am very happy with it. I've been coiling for babesia since May and Lyme since Sept. I didn't coil in Jan thinking I'd aggresively treat with MMS for the co-infections. I'm now thinking that was a mistake and am back to coiling and feeling better (in between

herxes).Well, thanks for any input you wonderful Lymie friends you!Blessings,Debbie

February 3, 2010

> >

> > Hi friends,

> >

> > I wanted to introduce myself as I have been reading the last 2 weeks and am