Newcastle staph findings: TMJ yes, CFS/FM no?

[Guest guest]

That's how it looks to me - if those guys found cn staph with delta-

like toxins in CFS/FM patients, they did an excellent job of failing

to publish it.

I know there's some overlap, but it seems like if they thought this

was of broad relevance to CFS/FM patients, they woulda said so at

some point, and they don't appear to have said so, in any published

document.

Also, the urinary metabolite findings in the TMJ paper and the

urinary metabolite findings in the CFS paper do not appear to

overlap - completely different set of variations from controls.

Tony, what do you make of that?

Here's the TMJ abstract:

J Orofac Pain. 2003 Spring;17(2):125-32. Related Articles, Links

Coagulase-negative staphylococcal membrane-damaging toxins, pain

intensity, and metabolic changes in temporomandibular disorder

patients with chronic muscle pain.

McGregor NR, Zerbes M, Niblett SH, RH, TK, Butt HL,

Klineberg IJ.

Jaw Function and Orofacial Pain Research Unit, Faculty of Dentistry,

University of Sydney, Westmead Centre for Oral Health, Westmead

Hospital, Westmead, New South Wales, Australia.

AIMS: To investigate the association between toxin-producing

staphylococci, symptom expression, and changes in urinary excretion

of metabolites in temporomandibular disorder (TMD) patients and age-

and sex-matched control subjects.

METHODS: Twenty-nine patients defined by the research diagnostic

criteria/TMD as having Type 1a muscle pain (TMD1A), and 34 age- and

sex-matched control subjects were assessed for the carriage of

staphylococcal species, staphylococcal toxin production, expression

of symptoms, and changes in urinary excretion of amino and organic

acids.

RESULTS: TMD1A patients had an increased incidence of carriage of

toxin-producing coagulase-negative staphylococcus (MDT-CoNS, P

< .004), which produced increased levels of delta-like membrane-

damaging toxins. The TMD1A patients also had a reduction in the

incidence of carriage of Staphylococcus aureus (P < .02). Increased

incidence of MDT-CoNS was positively associated with increased pain

intensity as assessed by a visual analog scale (P < .001). Odds

ratio analysis revealed a 9.2-fold increase in MDT-CoNS recovery

from the nose of TMD1A patients compared with the control subjects

(odds ratio = 9.2, > 95% confidence limits: 2.3 to 37.5, P < .001).

Increases in the carriage incidence of MDT-CoNS were also associated

with increases in the urinary tyrosine:leucine ratio (P < .004),

which represents a change in the balance of proteolysis and protein

synthesis. The toxin production by these CoNS species was also

associated with an increased urinary excretion of glutamic acid (P

< .03).

CONCLUSION: These data suggest that an increased colonization of MDT-

CoNS on skin and mucosal membranes was associated with changed

proteolysis, increased pain intensity, and an increase in excitatory

amino acids consistent with events associated with the development

of chronic orofacial muscle pain in TMD patients.

PMID: 12836500 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

There's a tinge of doing the science and not blowing your horn. The

helicobacter group from western australia went with there gut

feeling 'ulcers caused by bacteria' and didn't get a good reception?

I suppose the medical world is the same- you really don't have the

foggiest until you get friendly with pathology people as to what and

how pathetic the medical world reallky is.THEY JUST DON " T CARE. The

other problem that I'm critical with the newcastle team over is that

they just wanterd to do more and more research as opposed to taking

a patient and pumping in the IV's till they cured them.The problkem

I canm attribute to this not occuring is the so called risk in

giving IV's and having a belkief that pill ant8ibiotics actually do

what there supposed to in the animal model in a human being.

> That's how it looks to me - if those guys found cn staph with

delta-

> like toxins in CFS/FM patients, they did an excellent job of

failing

> to publish it.

>

> I know there's some overlap, but it seems like if they thought

this

> was of broad relevance to CFS/FM patients, they woulda said so at

> some point, and they don't appear to have said so, in any

published

> document.

>

> Also, the urinary metabolite findings in the TMJ paper and the

> urinary metabolite findings in the CFS paper do not appear to

> overlap - completely different set of variations from controls.

>

> Tony, what do you make of that?

>

> Here's the TMJ abstract:

>

> J Orofac Pain. 2003 Spring;17(2):125-32. Related Articles, Links

>

>

> Coagulase-negative staphylococcal membrane-damaging toxins, pain

> intensity, and metabolic changes in temporomandibular disorder

> patients with chronic muscle pain.

>

> McGregor NR, Zerbes M, Niblett SH, RH, TK, Butt

HL,

> Klineberg IJ.

>

> Jaw Function and Orofacial Pain Research Unit, Faculty of

Dentistry,

> University of Sydney, Westmead Centre for Oral Health, Westmead

> Hospital, Westmead, New South Wales, Australia.

>

> AIMS: To investigate the association between toxin-producing

> staphylococci, symptom expression, and changes in urinary

excretion

> of metabolites in temporomandibular disorder (TMD) patients and

age-

> and sex-matched control subjects.

>

> METHODS: Twenty-nine patients defined by the research diagnostic

> criteria/TMD as having Type 1a muscle pain (TMD1A), and 34 age-

and

> sex-matched control subjects were assessed for the carriage of

> staphylococcal species, staphylococcal toxin production,

expression

> of symptoms, and changes in urinary excretion of amino and organic

> acids.

>

> RESULTS: TMD1A patients had an increased incidence of carriage of

> toxin-producing coagulase-negative staphylococcus (MDT-CoNS, P

> < .004), which produced increased levels of delta-like membrane-

> damaging toxins. The TMD1A patients also had a reduction in the

> incidence of carriage of Staphylococcus aureus (P < .02).

Increased

> incidence of MDT-CoNS was positively associated with increased

pain

> intensity as assessed by a visual analog scale (P < .001). Odds

> ratio analysis revealed a 9.2-fold increase in MDT-CoNS recovery

> from the nose of TMD1A patients compared with the control subjects

> (odds ratio = 9.2, > 95% confidence limits: 2.3 to 37.5, P

< .001).

> Increases in the carriage incidence of MDT-CoNS were also

associated

> with increases in the urinary tyrosine:leucine ratio (P < .004),

> which represents a change in the balance of proteolysis and

protein

> synthesis. The toxin production by these CoNS species was also

> associated with an increased urinary excretion of glutamic acid (P

> < .03).

>

> CONCLUSION: These data suggest that an increased colonization of

MDT-

> CoNS on skin and mucosal membranes was associated with changed

> proteolysis, increased pain intensity, and an increase in

excitatory

> amino acids consistent with events associated with the development

> of chronic orofacial muscle pain in TMD patients.

>

> PMID: 12836500 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]