Re: Glutamine, Glutamate

[Guest guest]

I'm glad you raised this, as it's bound to come up and it does seem a

tricky question.

I would just note that the author writing on Mercola's pages has no

data to show any toxic result from glutamine consumption, at all. That

would be the needed finding to persuade me, an actual increase in

symptoms with glutamine consumption. I can tell you that I feel

consistently better with whey powder consumption, and that the whey

power I use has a hefty amount of glutamine in it.

I will try to see if I can find us a straightforward answer on this,

but am for now expressing a degree of skepticism re: this particular

guest article on mercola.com. My hunch - and that's all it is - is

that the author is somewhat mistaken.

I know from extensive reading on the various therapeutic

pharmaceutical agents that are used in patients with presumed

glutamate toxicity, one of the problems is that we NEED both glutamine

and glutamate for maintaining a broad spectrum of normal functions,

both within the brain and nervous system and in other body systems.

Drugs, for example, which inhibit glutamate uptake and might in theory

be neuroprotective tend to make one dumb as a brick and have toxicity

issues - because the approach is too indiscriminate. The body, if it

senses that its glutamate receptors are being deprived of what they

need to function, may very well INCREASE the rate of glutamate

synthesis to compensate, leaving one worse off than before.

This is why gluathione and, in the article by Rothstein et al,

Rocephin, offer a desirable mode of action for such conditions -

because they increase glutamate transport, preventing build-up of

extracellular glutamate at key nervous system sites, which seems to be

the real toxicity issue, rather than overall levels of glutamate and

its precursors.

Glutamate transport gets glutamate where it's needed, and removes it

from where it is not. At least, this is how the science at this point

describes it.

I've collected a lot of papers on this, will try to get back soon with

more info and less speculation on this question.

> This article talks about glutamine supplementation and glutamate

> excitoxicity in the brain.

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

[Guest guest]

One more quick point, which I'd forgotten:

Glutamine is the precursor of BOTH glutamate and GABA, which have

opposite effects, glutamate being the most excitatory and BABA the

most inhibitory of the neurotransmitters.

Also in heavy metal toxicity the studies I'm now browsing indicate

that it is a failure to convert glutamate back into glutamine, rather

than a excess levels of glutamine as the precursor, that are

problematic.

I will try to find, however, more specific references to ALS, MS and

other diseases where glutamate toxicity is well-established as having

a role in the pathogenesis.

> This article talks about glutamine supplementation and glutamate

> excitoxicity in the brain.

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

[Guest guest]

I would be interested in the metal studies. Also what enzymes are

involved in the conversions, and if deficiency/dysfunction of these

might cause the imbalances.

I just got a urine test result that shows low glutamine, high GABA

and high glutamate. I don't get it, beyond that I'm all F'd up

and " mercury toxicity " might be an easy (probably too easy)

explanation.

> > This article talks about glutamine supplementation and glutamate

> > excitoxicity in the brain.

> >

> > http://www.mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi, shakerz25.

It would be helpful to have a fasting blood plasma amino acids test

run, also, since your cells are actually exposed to the amino acid

levels in the blood.

Glutamine is primarily produced by the skeletal muscles and exported

to the blood by them. If glutamine is low in the blood, possible

causes include a diet that is too low or too high in protein. A

normal protein intake is about 1 gram per kg of body weight per day.

There are other possible causes as well. If your muscle protein is

being catabolized (broken down) rapidly, that can give rise to low

glutamine and elevated glutamic acid. In your urine organic acids

test, did they measure 3-methylhistidine? If that is high, it

indicates rapid muscle protein catabolism.

Rich

> I just got a urine test result that shows low glutamine, high GABA

> and high glutamate. I don't get it, beyond that I'm all F'd up

> and " mercury toxicity " might be an easy (probably too easy)

> explanation.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, for this and for the mercury related audiocassette

suggestion. I will pursue that.

The urine test was not an organic acid test, but a neurotransmitter

panel, from www.neuroscienceinc.com.

A year ago I did do a plasma amino acid analysis (I think it was

fasting, but I don't recall), which shows 3-methylhistidine in the

normal range (I got 3.0; the reference range says <=5.0 is OK).

I guess mercury could be the problem or a part of it; I did a DMPS

challenge urine test (doctors data) which brought out " very elevated "

levels.

>

> > I just got a urine test result that shows low glutamine, high

GABA

> > and high glutamate. I don't get it, beyond that I'm all F'd up

> > and " mercury toxicity " might be an easy (probably too easy)

> > explanation.

[Guest guest]

shakez25,

You're welcome. O.K., it doesn't sound as though your muscle

protein is catabolizing too fast.

If the Doctor's Data test challenged urine test showed that you

have " very elevated " mercury, I would believe it's true and pursue

that. Those tapes should be helpful in that regard.

Rich

> >

> > > I just got a urine test result that shows low glutamine, high

> GABA

> > > and high glutamate. I don't get it, beyond that I'm all F'd

up

> > > and " mercury toxicity " might be an easy (probably too easy)

> > > explanation.