Green tea inhances diflucan

July 23, 2005

Jelly and others,

I have been diagnosed by a Rheumatologist

with Lupus & by an Infectious

Disease Dr. with Lyme….extremely high titers

of multiple bands on the Igenex test. The ID Dr. said it’s one of the worst

Western Blot tests he’s ever seen. My Rheumatologists argue that all of

the crazy antibodies I have could have cross reacted with the antigens causing

a false positive. There could be something to this….there’s

mention in the literature about it including on Igenex’ own web site. It’s

frustrating to have 2 different specialists with two EXTREMELY different

opinions as to what is wrong with you.

My Rheumatologist is willing to let me

play out the Lyme game as my ID

Dr. has prescribed Diflucan and Green tea. See

below for the synergistic effect of green tea on Diflucan. Obviously, it

possesses other great qualities such as being a superb antioxidant, anti

cancer, anti viral & anti bacterial. He prescribes Diflucan not b/c of the

yeast angle but b/c of the P450 pathway angle, basically theorizing that the

Diflucan starves out the Lyme nutrients.

I’ve been on Diflucan since February

and added the green tea 2 weeks ago. It’s dirt cheap & I get it off

the web. The Diflucan initially made me very fatigued (more so than normal)

but I’m stabilized as far as that goes now.

Just thought you guys might find the green

tea aspect interesting. BTW, my Infectious

Dz. Dr.

is not some strip mall Dr. He’s the chair of the dept. of a huge prestigious

teaching hospital. He definitely thinks out of the box. He also added plain

ol Penicillin per the Schart protocol, but did not want me to suspend the

Diflucan.

J Antimicrob Chemother. 2004 Feb;53(2):225-9.

Epub 2003 Dec 19.

Related Articles, Links

Multiple

effects of green tea catechin on the antifungal activity of antimycotics

against Candida albicans.

Hirasawa M, Takada K.

Department of Microbiology, Nihon University School of Dentistry at Matsudo, 2-870-1 Sakaecho-nishi, Matsudo

City, Chiba

271-8587, Japan.

masahira@...

OBJECTIVES: The susceptibility of Candida albicans to catechin under varying pH

conditions and the synergism of the combination of catechin and antimycotics

were evaluated.Method: Antifungal activity was determined by broth dilution and

calculation of cfu. RESULTS: The antifungal activity of catechin was pH

dependent. The concentration of epigallocatechin gallate (EGCg) causing 90%

growth inhibition of tested strains of C. albicans was 2000 mg/L at pH 6.0,

500-1000 mg/L at pH 6.5 and 15.6-250 mg/L at pH 7.0. Among catechins,

pyrogallol catechin showed stronger antifungal activity against C. albicans

than catechol catechin. The addition of 6.25-25 or 3.12-12.5 mg/L EGCg to

amphotericin B 0.125 or 0.25 mg/L (below MIC) at pH 7.0 resulted in

enhancement, respectively, of the antifungal effect of amphotericin B against

amphotericin B-susceptible or -resistant C. albicans. Combined treatment with

3.12-12.5 mg/L EGCg plus amphotericin B 0.5 mg/L (below MIC) markedly decreased

the growth of amphotericin B-resistant C. albicans. When

fluconazole-susceptible C. albicans was treated with 25-50 mg/L EGCg and

fluconazole 0.125-0.25 mg/L (below MIC), its growth was inhibited by

93.0%-99.4% compared with its growth in the presence of fluconazole alone. The

combined use of 12.5 mg/L EGCg and fluconazole 10-50 mg/L (below MIC) inhibited

the growth of fluconazole-resistant C. albicans by 98.5%-99.7%. CONCLUSIONS:

These results indicate that EGCg enhances the antifungal effect of amphotericin

B or fluconazole against antimycotic-susceptible and -resistant C. albicans. Combined

treatment with catechin allows the use of lower doses of antimycotics and

induces multiple antifungal effects. It is hoped that this may help to avoid

the side effects of antimycotics.

PMID: 14688042 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of jellybelly92008

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005

12:36 PM

infections

Subject:

[infections] Re: info on sinus bacteria

Well, here I am. Maybe I am the person with Lyme, taking an

antifungal, Diflucan, that you are looking for.

My LLMD put be on a two month coarse of Diflucan

because a little

over a year ago, I was put on the antifunal,

Nizorel and seemed to

make quite a bit of progress. So we thought it

might be a good idea

to try again.

I've been on the Difulcan for about 2 weeks and

feel rather cruddy.

Brain not working, lethargic, achey, eyes burn,

sweaty, I'm not

having fun. Thing is, my doc also put me on a beta

blocker to slow

my heart down. During my flare it was up to 100.

My heart has gone

from the 100s to the mid 60s where it has never

been. So I don't

know if I feel cruddy because of the beta blocker,

the Diflucan or

the flair.

I had actually thought I would take a break from

the Diflucan to see

if I feel any better.

My LLMD is aware of the doctor who believes he is

curing Lyme by

treating with antifungals. We actually talked

about it, and he is

wondering if progress even in a Lyme patient isn't

due to an

underlying yeast infestation. So we are trying to

cover all the

bases, before we start with ABX if they are still

needed.

> > >

> Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based…..Fungi down

> regulates

> > >

the immune

> > >

> system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress the

IS in

> > >

transplant

> > >

> patients are fungal based… your bacterial infection is

> > >

incidental .The

> > >

> hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..[is

it?]

> …

> > When

> > >

infected

> > >

> mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that is

in a

> > normal

> > >

common or

> > >

> garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

robust

> > Immune

> > >

response

> > >

> ..when infected with fungi our response is muted hence

the

> > lack of

> > >

colour ,

> > >

> our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

….

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

fungal

> > >

infections.

> > >

>

> > >

> JW.

> > >

>

> > >

> Department of Microbiology and Immunology, University

of

> > Oklahoma

> > >

Health

> > >

> Sciences Center, Oklahoma City,

USA. juneann-

murphy@o...

> > >

>

> > >

> Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

cause

> > >

progressive

> > >

> disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

virulence

> > factor

> > >

is the

> > >

> fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

host

> > protective

> > >

> mechanisms.

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > >

>

> > >

> See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most chronic

> sinus

> > >

infections may

> > >

> be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > >

>

> > >

> * Article in Mayo

> > >

<http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > >

> Clinic Proceedings

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

evidence to

> our

> > >

thinking

> > >

> that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

reaction

> to

> > >

fungi in the

> > >

> nose. Our original study linking chronic

rhinosinusitis to

> > fungi

> > >

in the

> > >

> nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

Proceedings in

> > >

September 1999,

> > >

> has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center in

> Europe

> > (ENT

> > >

> University Hospital

in Graz, Austria).

> > >

>

> > >

> There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

Rochester to

> > further

> > >

> investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory diseases

of

> the

> > >

respiratory

> > >

> tract.

> > >

> In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

Research

> > >

Laboratory at

> > >

> the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

found that certain white

blood

> > cells

> > >

>

> > >

> called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and were

> > producing

> > >

the kind

> > >

> of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that healthy

> people

> > did

> > >

>

> > >

> not react in that way. This work was presented at the

2001

> > Annual

> > >

Meeting of

> > >

> the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma and Immunology

and

> > >

>

> > >

> will be published soon.

> > >

>

> > >

> The evidence was so convincing that the National

Institute

> of

> > >

Health

> > >

> (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

further

> > >

investigate the

> > >

>

> > >

> mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

fungi.

> > >

>

> > >

> If you have chronic sinusitis—that is, a sinus

inflammation

> > that

> > >

persists

> > >

> for three months or longer—we recommend that you see

your

> > personal

> > >

> physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > >

(otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > >

> the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many times

the

> > disease

> > >

is

> > >

> associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

those

> > >

associated

> > >

> problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > >

>

> > >

> Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

run

> > because

> > >

they target

> > >

> bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> sinusitis.

> > >

> Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

steroids

> > are the

> > >

> mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

symptoms of

> the

> > >

patient.

> > >

>

> > >

> Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

nasal

> washes

> > >

and mist

> > >

> sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of chronic

> > sinusitis,

> > >

but do not

> > >

> eliminate the inflammation.

> > >

>

> > >

> Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > >

> Mayo Clinic

> > >

> Rochester, Minnesota

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> d fungal

> infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> Stop press information

> > >

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

antifungal

> > drugs

> > >

to treat

> > >

> sinusitis.

> > >

>

> > >

> [infections] info on sinus

> bacteria

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

> I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts in

the

> sinus

> > >

area and

> > >

> later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run down

the

> > outside

> > >

of the

> > >

> cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

person with

> > very

> > >

clear

> > >

> tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks. I

know

> that

> > >

chlamydia

> > >

> bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a persons

> head,

> > also

> > >

at

> > >

> the base of the spine. could this bacteria be the

cause

> of

> > these

> > >

> tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with info or

> > comments,

> > >

I need

> > >

> to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

July 24, 2005

I was also dx with Lupus.. then when I just out-lived that dx- they

went on to other autoimmune dx's...

I know they say people with Lupus can test positive (FALSELY test

positive) to Lupus - but I've never seen anything to back that

statement up. They're spouting THEORY.

There are several bands on a WB for Lyme that do not cross react with

anything... and I just can't see people with lupus making antibodies

out of the blue to specific proteins expressed only by Lyme bacteria.

I don't buy what they're selling- never have.

Barb

> > > > > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > > > the immune

> > > > > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress the

> IS in

> > > > transplant

> > > > > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection is

> > > > incidental .The

> > > > > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > > > infected

> > > > > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that is

> in a

> > > normal

> > > > common or

> > > > > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > > > response

> > > > > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > > > colour ,

> > > > > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > > > >

> > > > > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > > > infections.

> > > > >

> > > > > JW.

> > > > >

> > > > > Department of Microbiology and Immunology, University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > > > Health

> > > > > Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA. juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > > > >

> > > > > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > > > progressive

> > > > > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > > > is the

> > > > > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > > > > mechanisms.

> > > > >

> > > > > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > > >

> > > > > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > > >

> > > > > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > > > infections may

> > > > > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > * Article in Mayo

> > > > <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > > > Clinic Proceedings

> > > > >

> > > > > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > > > thinking

> > > > > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > > > fungi in the

> > > > > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > > > in the

> > > > > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > > > September 1999,

> > > > > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > > > > University Hospital in Graz, Austria).

> > > > >

> > > > > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester to

> > > further

> > > > > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > > > respiratory

> > > > > tract.

> > > > > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > > > Laboratory at

> > > > > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain white

> blood

> > > cells

> > > > >

> > > > > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > > > the kind

> > > > > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > > > >

> > > > > not react in that way. This work was presented at the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > > > Meeting of

> > > > > the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > > > >

> > > > > will be published soon.

> > > > >

> > > > > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > > > Health

> > > > > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > > > investigate the

> > > > >

> > > > > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > > > persists

> > > > > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > > > > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > > (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > > > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > > > is

> > > > > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > > > associated

> > > > > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > > > they target

> > > > > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > > > > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > > > > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > > > patient.

> > > > >

> > > > > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > > > and mist

> > > > > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > > > but do not

> > > > > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > > > Mayo Clinic

> > > > > Rochester, Minnesota

> > > > >

> > > > > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > > > >

> > > > > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > > >

> > > > > Stop press information

> > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > > > to treat

> > > > > sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > [infections] info on sinus

> > bacteria

> > > > >

> > > > > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > > > area and

> > > > > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run down

> the

> > > outside

> > > > of the

> > > > > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > > > clear

> > > > > tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > > > chlamydia

> > > > > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > > > at

> > > > > the base of the spine. could this bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > > > > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with info

or

> > > comments,

> > > > I need

> > > > > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > > >

July 24, 2005

I’m saying people with lupus

antibodies can falsely test positive to Lyme, not lupus. But, beside the point,

even IGENEX’ web site states that people with certain rheumatic

conditions including RA and lupus can end up false testing positive. I do

understand that there are certain bands that have never shown any cross reactivity

with anything, but I’m not convinced that they’ve done a lot of testing

on patients with my certain specific set of antibodies. I don’t live

in an endemic area for Lyme, never had a tick bite that I’m aware of, no rashes

& nothing else red flag in my history for Lyme. I’m not saying that

I don’t have it………..I really don’t know what to think.

But more importantly, what’s worse; lupus

or chronic Lyme? I’ve been on the AB protocol 2+ years without any improvement.

It’s sort of like the joke of the Dr. saying “I have good news

and bad news. The good news is you don’t have lupus & the bad news

is you have chronic Lyme.”

My approach is to treat the Lyme as suggested

& hope that I can keep my discomfort to the point where I don’t need strong

immunosuppressant drugs. There are sure a lot of days where I could benefit

from about 10mg of Prednisone. I suffer through it though.

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of Barb Peck

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:03

PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Re: Green tea inhances diflucan

I was also dx with Lupus.. then when I just out-lived that dx- they

went on to other autoimmune dx's...

I know they say people with Lupus can test

positive (FALSELY test

positive) to Lupus - but I've never seen anything

to back that

statement up. They're spouting THEORY.

There are several bands on a WB for Lyme that do

not cross react with

anything... and I just can't see people with lupus

making antibodies

out of the blue to specific proteins expressed

only by Lyme bacteria.

I don't buy what they're selling- never have.

Barb

> > >

> > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > >

> the immune

> > >

> > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress the

> IS in

> > >

> transplant

> > >

> > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection is

> > >

> incidental .The

> > >

> > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > >

> infected

> > >

> > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that is

> in a

> > > normal

> > >

> common or

> > >

> > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > >

> response

> > >

> > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > >

> colour ,

> > >

> > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > >

> infections.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > JW.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Department of Microbiology and Immunology, University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > Sciences Center, Oklahoma

City, USA.

juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > >

> progressive

> > >

> > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > >

> is the

> > >

> > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > >

> > mechanisms.

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > >

> infections may

> > >

> > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > * Article in Mayo

> > >

> <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > >

> > Clinic Proceedings

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > >

> thinking

> > > >

> that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > >

> fungi in the

> > >

> > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > >

> in the

> > >

> > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > >

> September 1999,

> > >

> > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > >

> > University Hospital in Graz,

Austria).

> > >

> >

> > >

> > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester

to

> > > further

> > >

> > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > >

> respiratory

> > >

> > tract.

> > >

> > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > >

> Laboratory at

> > >

> > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

found that certain white

> blood

> > > cells

> > >

> >

> > >

> > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > >

> the kind

> > >

> > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > >

> >

> > >

> > not react in that way. This work was presented at the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > >

> Meeting of

> > >

> > the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > >

> >

> > >

> > will be published soon.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > >

> investigate the

> > >

> >

> > >

> > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > >

> >

> > > >

> If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > >

> persists

> > >

> > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > >

> > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > >

> (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > >

> > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > >

> is

> > >

> > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > > >

associated

> > >

> > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > >

> they target

> > >

> > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > >

> > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > >

> patient.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > >

> and mist

> > >

> > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > >

> but do not

> > >

> > eliminate the inflammation.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic

> > >

> > Rochester,

Minnesota

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Stop press information

> > >

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > >

> to treat

> > >

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > [infections] info on

sinus

> > bacteria

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that

starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > >

> area and

> > >

> > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that

run down

> the

> > > outside

> > >

> of the

> > >

> > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie

showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > >

> clear

> > >

> > tracks that ran down the outside of his

cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > >

> chlamydia

> > >

> > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > >

> at

> > >

> > the base of the spine. could this

bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > >

> > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone

with info

or

> > > comments,

> > >

> I need

> > >

> > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

July 24, 2005

Lyme refers to an infection.

Lupus refers to a condition.

I hate diseases that simply refer to symptoms as if that sums it up.

" You've got MS. " Thanx but what is causing the lesions?

" You've got ulcerative colitis. " Thanx but what is causing the

inflamed and ulcerated gut lining?

There has to be an (or multiple) infectious or toxic triggers.

Perhaps you should consider a few other factors:

Gluten sensitivity. You can either get testing for celiac sensitivity

genes (not just anti gliadin antibodies) or just go off ALL gluten

which means mostly forget eating in restaurants and foregoing much

prepared food as gluten can sneak in. Its not that hard. Re evaluate

in 6 months. Takes a while to repair the gut.

Look for other coinfections such as babesia, or fungi as mentioned on

here.

Look into IVIG.

> > > > > > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi

down

> > > regulates

> > > > > the immune

> > > > > > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> > IS in

> > > > > transplant

> > > > > > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection

is

> > > > > incidental .The

> > > > > > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

> [is

> > it?]

> > > .

> > > > When

> > > > > infected

> > > > > > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> > in a

> > > > normal

> > > > > common or

> > > > > > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes

a

> > robust

> > > > Immune

> > > > > response

> > > > > > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

> hence

> > the

> > > > lack of

> > > > > colour ,

> > > > > > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> > ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> > fungal

> > > > > infections.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JW.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> > of

> > > > Oklahoma

> > > > > Health

> > > > > > Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA. juneann-

> > murphy@o...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> > cause

> > > > > progressive

> > > > > > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> > virulence

> > > > factor

> > > > > is the

> > > > > > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> > host

> > > > protective

> > > > > > mechanisms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

> chronic

> > > sinus

> > > > > infections may

> > > > > > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * Article in Mayo

> > > > > <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > > > > Clinic Proceedings

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> > evidence to

> > > our

> > > > > thinking

> > > > > > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> > reaction

> > > to

> > > > > fungi in the

> > > > > > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> > rhinosinusitis to

> > > > fungi

> > > > > in the

> > > > > > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> > Proceedings in

> > > > > September 1999,

> > > > > > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center

in

> > > Europe

> > > > (ENT

> > > > > > University Hospital in Graz, Austria).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> > Rochester to

> > > > further

> > > > > > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

> diseases

> > of

> > > the

> > > > > respiratory

> > > > > > tract.

> > > > > > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> > Research

> > > > > Laboratory at

> > > > > > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain

white

> > blood

> > > > cells

> > > > > >

> > > > > > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

> were

> > > > producing

> > > > > the kind

> > > > > > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

> healthy

> > > people

> > > > did

> > > > > >

> > > > > > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> > 2001

> > > > Annual

> > > > > Meeting of

> > > > > > the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and

> Immunology

> > and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > will be published soon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> > Institute

> > > of

> > > > > Health

> > > > > > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> > further

> > > > > investigate the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> > fungi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> > inflammation

> > > > that

> > > > > persists

> > > > > > for three months or longer-we recommend that you

see

> > your

> > > > personal

> > > > > > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > > > (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > > > > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

> times

> > the

> > > > disease

> > > > > is

> > > > > > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment

of

> > those

> > > > > associated

> > > > > > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the

long

> > run

> > > > because

> > > > > they target

> > > > > > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > > sinusitis.

> > > > > > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> > steroids

> > > > are the

> > > > > > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> > symptoms of

> > > the

> > > > > patient.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> > nasal

> > > washes

> > > > > and mist

> > > > > > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > > sinusitis,

> > > > > but do not

> > > > > > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > > > > Mayo Clinic

> > > > > > Rochester, Minnesota

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME]

an

> > > > > >

> > > > > > d fungal

> > > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stop press information

> > > > > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> > antifungal

> > > > drugs

> > > > > to treat

> > > > > > sinusitis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [infections] info on sinus

> > > bacteria

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts

in

> > the

> > > sinus

> > > > > area and

> > > > > > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run

down

> > the

> > > > outside

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

> > person with

> > > > very

> > > > > clear

> > > > > > tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks.

I

> > know

> > > that

> > > > > chlamydia

> > > > > > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

> persons

> > > head,

> > > > also

> > > > > at

> > > > > > the base of the spine. could this bacteria be

the

> > cause

> > > of

> > > > these

> > > > > > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with

info

> or

> > > > comments,

> > > > > I need

> > > > > > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > > > >

July 24, 2005

Wow Patrice, thank you!! Let me see if I got this right. The

negative effects (I guess it's herxing) of the Diflucan can be

minimized by the Green Tea. This is because something (ECGc, I

think, don't know what it is) makes the yeast more suseptable to the

Diflucan, so you don't have to take so much. Is that sort of right???

I am taking 100 mgs. of Diflucan now. How much do you take and how

much green tea are you drinking. I really don't want to stop the

Diflucan, but I already feel so much better not taking it today.

Although my brain still feels like scrambled eggs.

> > > > > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > > > the immune

> > > > > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> IS in

> > > > transplant

> > > > > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection

is

> > > > incidental .The

> > > > > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > > > infected

> > > > > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> in a

> > > normal

> > > > common or

> > > > > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > > > response

> > > > > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > > > colour ,

> > > > > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > > > >

> > > > > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > > > infections.

> > > > >

> > > > > JW.

> > > > >

> > > > > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > > > Health

> > > > > Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA. juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > > > >

> > > > > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > > > progressive

> > > > > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > > > is the

> > > > > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > > > > mechanisms.

> > > > >

> > > > > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > > >

> > > > > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > > >

> > > > > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > > > infections may

> > > > > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > * Article in Mayo

> > > > <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > > > Clinic Proceedings

> > > > >

> > > > > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > > > thinking

> > > > > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > > > fungi in the

> > > > > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > > > in the

> > > > > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > > > September 1999,

> > > > > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center

in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > > > > University Hospital in Graz, Austria).

> > > > >

> > > > > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester to

> > > further

> > > > > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > > > respiratory

> > > > > tract.

> > > > > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > > > Laboratory at

> > > > > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain

white

> blood

> > > cells

> > > > >

> > > > > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > > > the kind

> > > > > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > > > >

> > > > > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > > > Meeting of

> > > > > the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > > > >

> > > > > will be published soon.

> > > > >

> > > > > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > > > Health

> > > > > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > > > investigate the

> > > > >

> > > > > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > > > persists

> > > > > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > > > > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > > (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > > > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > > > is

> > > > > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > > > associated

> > > > > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > > > they target

> > > > > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > > > > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > > > > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > > > patient.

> > > > >

> > > > > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > > > and mist

> > > > > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > > > but do not

> > > > > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > > > Mayo Clinic

> > > > > Rochester, Minnesota

> > > > >

> > > > > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > > > >

> > > > > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > > >

> > > > > Stop press information

> > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > > > to treat

> > > > > sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > [infections] info on sinus

> > bacteria

> > > > >

> > > > > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > > > area and

> > > > > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run

down

> the

> > > outside

> > > > of the

> > > > > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > > > clear

> > > > > tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > > > chlamydia

> > > > > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > > > at

> > > > > the base of the spine. could this bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > > > > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with info

or

> > > comments,

> > > > I need

> > > > > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > > >

July 24, 2005

Oh Fudge! I posted this once already and it didn't make it through.

Grrrrr.

Thanks so much Patrice. Are you saying or does the info say that

Green Tea has something in it that makes fungus more susceptable to

Diflucan? That way you need less of the Diflucan to achieve the same

effect? Less Diflucan means less negative side effects.

Are these side effects, herxing? I take 100 mgs of Diflucan a day,

how much do you take? Man my brain feels like scrambled eggs.

> > > > > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > > > the immune

> > > > > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> IS in

> > > > transplant

> > > > > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection

is

> > > > incidental .The

> > > > > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > > > infected

> > > > > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> in a

> > > normal

> > > > common or

> > > > > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > > > response

> > > > > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > > > colour ,

> > > > > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > > > >

> > > > > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > > > infections.

> > > > >

> > > > > JW.

> > > > >

> > > > > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > > > Health

> > > > > Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA. juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > > > >

> > > > > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > > > progressive

> > > > > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > > > is the

> > > > > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > > > > mechanisms.

> > > > >

> > > > > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > > >

> > > > > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > > >

> > > > > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > > > infections may

> > > > > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > * Article in Mayo

> > > > <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > > > Clinic Proceedings

> > > > >

> > > > > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > > > thinking

> > > > > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > > > fungi in the

> > > > > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > > > in the

> > > > > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > > > September 1999,

> > > > > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center

in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > > > > University Hospital in Graz, Austria).

> > > > >

> > > > > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester to

> > > further

> > > > > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > > > respiratory

> > > > > tract.

> > > > > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > > > Laboratory at

> > > > > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain

white

> blood

> > > cells

> > > > >

> > > > > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > > > the kind

> > > > > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > > > >

> > > > > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > > > Meeting of

> > > > > the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > > > >

> > > > > will be published soon.

> > > > >

> > > > > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > > > Health

> > > > > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > > > investigate the

> > > > >

> > > > > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > > > persists

> > > > > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > > > > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > > (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > > > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > > > is

> > > > > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > > > associated

> > > > > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > > > they target

> > > > > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > > > > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > > > > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > > > patient.

> > > > >

> > > > > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > > > and mist

> > > > > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > > > but do not

> > > > > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > > > Mayo Clinic

> > > > > Rochester, Minnesota

> > > > >

> > > > > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > > > >

> > > > > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > > >

> > > > > Stop press information

> > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > > >

> > > > > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > > > to treat

> > > > > sinusitis.

> > > > >

> > > > > [infections] info on sinus

> > bacteria

> > > > >

> > > > > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > > > area and

> > > > > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run

down

> the

> > > outside

> > > > of the

> > > > > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > > > clear

> > > > > tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > > > chlamydia

> > > > > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > > > at

> > > > > the base of the spine. could this bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > > > > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with info

or

> > > comments,

> > > > I need

> > > > > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > > >

July 24, 2005

Jelly, in a nutshell,

yes, the green tea enhances the killing of the candida. It does NOT enhance

the toxicity of the drug which is very important, so yes, your reasoning that you

may require less is a reasonable assumption. My ID Dr. takes this abstract a step further

& reasons that if it potentiates the action on candida, then it logically could

do the same for Lyme.

However, my ID Dr. has really encouraged me to stick out

the Diflucan at higher doses. I take 200mg a day all at once. He thinks

this is one of the better shots I might have with the least toxicity. So many

are worried about liver toxicity, but he has literally treated thousands of AIDS

pt.’s with cryptococci and they are all on even higher doses of Diflucan daily

for years & he has never had anyone develop liver toxicity. And these

are pretty sick folks to start with. He is not concerned in the least with

liver toxicity. He wouldn’t even order liver panel on me, but I got

my Fam. Practice too & it’s weird, but my liver enzymes came back better

than ever.

I don’t think the Diflucan makes me feel

sick. When you feel lousy most of the time, it’s sometimes hard to evaluate,

but it’s kind of weird, I take the diflucan mid day & I sort of get a

little kick (boost in energy) from it now.

THis diflucan therapy may all turn out to be

hog wash, but we need to give it a good time trial to know for sure with enough

numbers of people taking it.

Again, when evaluating therapies, evaluate

risk vs. benefit. I feel very comfortable taking green tea and Diflucan. When

he starts talking IV Rocephin, then I’m going to have to give it some good

long thought.

Patrice

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of jellybelly92008

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005

10:22 PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Re: Green tea inhances diflucan

Oh Fudge! I posted this once already and it didn't make it through.

Grrrrr.

Thanks so much Patrice. Are you saying or does the

info say that

Green Tea has something in it that makes fungus

more susceptable to

Diflucan? That way you need less of the Diflucan

to achieve the same

effect? Less Diflucan means less negative side

effects.

Are these side effects, herxing? I take 100 mgs of

Diflucan a day,

how much do you take? Man my brain feels like

scrambled eggs.

> > >

> > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > >

> the immune

> > >

> > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> IS in

> > >

> transplant

> > >

> > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection

is

> > >

> incidental .The

> > >

> > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > >

> infected

> > >

> > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> in a

> > > normal

> > >

> common or

> > >

> > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > > >

response

> > >

> > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > >

> colour ,

> > >

> > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > >

> infections.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > JW.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > Sciences Center, Oklahoma

City, USA.

juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > >

> progressive

> > >

> > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > >

> is the

> > >

> > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > >

> > mechanisms.

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

>

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > >

> infections may

> > >

> > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > * Article in Mayo

> > >

> <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > >

> > Clinic Proceedings

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > >

> thinking

> > >

> > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > >

> fungi in the

> > >

> > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > >

> in the

> > >

> > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > >

> September 1999,

> > >

> > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center

in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > >

> > University Hospital in Graz,

Austria).

> > >

> >

> > >

> > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester

to

> > > further

> > >

> > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > >

> respiratory

> > >

> > tract.

> > >

> > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > >

> Laboratory at

> > >

> > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

found that certain

white

> blood

> > > cells

> > >

> >

> > >

> > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > >

> the kind

> > >

> > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > >

> >

> > >

> > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > >

> Meeting of

> > >

> > the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > >

> >

> > >

> > will be published soon.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > >

> investigate the

> > >

> >

> > >

> > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > >

> persists

> > >

> > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > >

> > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > >

> (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > >

> > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > >

> is

> > >

> > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > >

> associated

> > >

> > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > >

> they target

> > >

> > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > >

> > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > >

> patient.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > >

> and mist

> > >

> > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > >

> but do not

> > >

> > eliminate the inflammation.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic

> > >

> > Rochester,

Minnesota

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Stop press information

> > >

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > >

> to treat

> > >

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > [infections] info on

sinus

> > bacteria

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that

starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > >

> area and

> > >

> > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that

run

down

> the

> > > outside

> > >

> of the

> > >

> > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie

showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > >

> clear

> > >

> > tracks that ran down the outside of his

cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > >

> chlamydia

> > >

> > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > >

> at

> > >

> > the base of the spine. could this

bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > >

> > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone

with info

or

> > > comments,

> > >

> I need

> > >

> > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

July 24, 2005

I take green tea caps. I get mine off of

iherb.com & you want to look for the maximum ECGC (I think) that you can

get in a cap for the price. I’m taking 500mg twice a day.

In theory, your assumption that you would

require less Diflucan is correct.

However, I think if you want a shot at

starving out the Lyme nutrients (which it is THEORIZED Diflucan does), you need

to take a pretty hefty dose of Diflucan. I take 200mg daily without ill

effects. THe green tea is supposed to boost this even further.

It’s all THEORY, but my ID Dr. and I think

very much alike in risk vs. benefit. Everyone would benefit from green tea…superb

antioxidant, good for cardiovascular health, anti viral & antibacterial

& now appears according to this abstract that it potentiates anti fungal

activity of anti fungals. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt your “fried

brain” is due to Diflucan. It’s extremely well tolerated by a

group of individuals with AIDS who are a lot sicker than we are. It really has

a very good safety profile despite it’s reputation. To add further fuel

to the fire, I also take Placquenil with it. I figure I’m going to go at

this all guns loaded.

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of jellybelly92008

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005

10:03 PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Re: Green tea inhances diflucan

Wow Patrice, thank you!! Let me see if I got this right. The

negative effects (I guess it's herxing) of the

Diflucan can be

minimized by the Green Tea. This is because

something (ECGc, I

think, don't know what it is) makes the yeast more

suseptable to the

Diflucan, so you don't have to take so much. Is

that sort of right???

I am taking 100 mgs. of Diflucan now. How much do

you take and how

much green tea are you drinking. I really don't

want to stop the

Diflucan, but I already feel so much better not

taking it today.

Although my brain still feels like scrambled

eggs.

> > > >

> Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi down

> > regulates

> > >

> the immune

> > >

> > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> IS in

> > >

> transplant

> > >

> > patients are fungal based. your bacterial infection

is

> > >

> incidental .The

> > >

> > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

[is

> it?]

> > .

> > > When

> > >

> infected

> > >

> > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> in a

> > > normal

> > >

> common or

> > >

> > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes a

> robust

> > > Immune

> > >

> response

> > >

> > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

hence

> the

> > > lack of

> > >

> colour ,

> > >

> > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> ..

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

>

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> fungal

> > >

> infections.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > JW.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> of

> > > Oklahoma

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > Sciences Center, Oklahoma

City, USA.

juneann-

> murphy@o...

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> cause

> > > >

progressive

> > >

> > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> virulence

> > > factor

> > >

> is the

> > >

> > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-regulate

> host

> > > protective

> > >

> > mechanisms.

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

>

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

chronic

> > sinus

> > >

> infections may

> > >

> > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > * Article in Mayo

> > >

> <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > >

> > Clinic Proceedings

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> evidence to

> > our

> > >

> thinking

> > >

> > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> reaction

> > to

> > >

> fungi in the

> > >

> > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> rhinosinusitis to

> > > fungi

> > >

> in the

> > >

> > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> Proceedings in

> > >

> September 1999,

> > >

> > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus center

in

> > Europe

> > > (ENT

> > >

> > University Hospital in Graz,

Austria).

> > >

> >

> > >

> > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> Rochester

to

> > > further

> > >

> > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

diseases

> of

> > the

> > >

> respiratory

> > >

> > tract.

> > >

> > In addition, researchers from the Allergic Diseases

> Research

> > >

> Laboratory at

> > >

> > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

found that certain

white

> blood

> > > cells

> > >

> >

> > >

> > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

were

> > > producing

> > >

> the kind

> > >

> > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

healthy

> > people

> > > did

> > >

> >

> > >

> > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> 2001

> > > Annual

> > >

> Meeting of

> > >

> > the American

Academy of Allergy,

Asthma and

Immunology

> and

> > >

> >

> > >

> > will be published soon.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> Institute

> > of

> > >

> Health

> > >

> > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> further

> > >

> investigate the

> > >

> >

> > >

> > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to the

> fungi.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> inflammation

> > > that

> > >

> persists

> > >

> > for three months or longer-we recommend that you see

> your

> > > personal

> > >

> > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > >

> (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > >

> > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

times

> the

> > > disease

> > >

> is

> > >

> > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment of

> those

> > >

> associated

> > >

> > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the long

> run

> > > because

> > >

> they target

> > >

> > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of chronic

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> steroids

> > > are the

> > >

> > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> symptoms of

> > the

> > >

> patient.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> nasal

> > washes

> > >

> and mist

> > >

> > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > sinusitis,

> > >

> but do not

> > >

> > eliminate the inflammation.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > >

> > Mayo Clinic

> > >

> > Rochester,

Minnesota

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME] an

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > > >

>

> > >

> > d fungal

> > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > Stop press information

> > >

> >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> antifungal

> > > drugs

> > >

> to treat

> > >

> > sinusitis.

> > >

> >

> > >

> > [infections] info on

sinus

> > bacteria

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that

starts in

> the

> > sinus

> > >

> area and

> > >

> > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that

run

down

> the

> > > outside

> > >

> of the

> > >

> > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie

showing a

> person with

> > > very

> > >

> clear

> > >

> > tracks that ran down the outside of his

cheeks. I

> know

> > that

> > >

> chlamydia

> > >

> > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

persons

> > head,

> > > also

> > >

> at

> > >

> > the base of the spine. could this

bacteria be the

> cause

> > of

> > > these

> > >

> > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone

with info

or

> > > comments,

> > >

> I need

> > >

> > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

July 24, 2005

Patrice, I'm pretty sure Barb just mis-typed, and meant to say that

the specificity of certain bands for LYME is really uncontested - we

have no contrary data, no explanation for how a Lupus diagnosis, or

any other rheumatic condition, would produce antibodies to those

specific antigen bands.

Of course, having Lyme and knowing that all your symptoms are due to

Lyme is something else. How far back do your symptoms go, in

relation to the date of that Lyme test?

A WB that strong might be described by some observers as more

typical of early infection - that doesn't prove anything, I haven't

seen any data that make that more than a 'tendency', and I suspect

there are multiple variables involved in when and how the Immune

System kicks out antibodies.

But if you were symptomatic for several years before the test...and

came back with those really high antibody titers...well, its just

interesting to think about that.

I'm kind of curious, too, which Lyme abx regimens you tried. There

was no evidence of anything at all but continued deterioration when

I was on oral antibiotics. No reason to believe that this treatment

was even really scratching the surface. That changed with different

abx and modes of administration...

Are they doing something more for Lupus these days than steroids?

Those are all just ' ruminates and tries to think about what he

knows' questions...the only one that carries much weight with me is

whether with the Fluconazole regimen you're going to get the relief

you've been pursuing unsuccessfully. I hope you do!

But if that turns out to disappoint, or leaves you with only partial

improvements...and you've only tried oral antibiotic

remedies...maybe it's worth thinking about taking the next step, see

if a few months of IM Bicillin generates more of a response, or one

of the IV drugs?

I apologize in advance if you've addressed all these questions

before. Like I said, feel free to ignore any and all of them.

S.

> > > > > > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi

down

> > > regulates

> > > > > the immune

> > > > > > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> > IS in

> > > > > transplant

> > > > > > patients are fungal based. your bacterial

infection is

> > > > > incidental .The

> > > > > > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

> [is

> > it?]

> > > .

> > > > When

> > > > > infected

> > > > > > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> > in a

> > > > normal

> > > > > common or

> > > > > > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes

a

> > robust

> > > > Immune

> > > > > response

> > > > > > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

> hence

> > the

> > > > lack of

> > > > > colour ,

> > > > > > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> > ..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> > fungal

> > > > > infections.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JW.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> > of

> > > > Oklahoma

> > > > > Health

> > > > > > Sciences Center, Oklahoma City, USA. juneann-

> > murphy@o...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> > cause

> > > > > progressive

> > > > > > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> > virulence

> > > > factor

> > > > > is the

> > > > > > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-

regulate

> > host

> > > > protective

> > > > > > mechanisms.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

> chronic

> > > sinus

> > > > > infections may

> > > > > > be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * Article in Mayo

> > > > > <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > > > > Clinic Proceedings

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> > evidence to

> > > our

> > > > > thinking

> > > > > > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> > reaction

> > > to

> > > > > fungi in the

> > > > > > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> > rhinosinusitis to

> > > > fungi

> > > > > in the

> > > > > > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> > Proceedings in

> > > > > September 1999,

> > > > > > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus

center in

> > > Europe

> > > > (ENT

> > > > > > University Hospital in Graz, Austria).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> > Rochester to

> > > > further

> > > > > > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

> diseases

> > of

> > > the

> > > > > respiratory

> > > > > > tract.

> > > > > > In addition, researchers from the Allergic

Diseases

> > Research

> > > > > Laboratory at

> > > > > > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester found that certain

white

> > blood

> > > > cells

> > > > > >

> > > > > > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

> were

> > > > producing

> > > > > the kind

> > > > > > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

> healthy

> > > people

> > > > did

> > > > > >

> > > > > > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> > 2001

> > > > Annual

> > > > > Meeting of

> > > > > > the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and

> Immunology

> > and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > will be published soon.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> > Institute

> > > of

> > > > > Health

> > > > > > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> > further

> > > > > investigate the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to

the

> > fungi.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> > inflammation

> > > > that

> > > > > persists

> > > > > > for three months or longer-we recommend that you

see

> > your

> > > > personal

> > > > > > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > > > (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > > > > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

> times

> > the

> > > > disease

> > > > > is

> > > > > > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment

of

> > those

> > > > > associated

> > > > > > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the

long

> > run

> > > > because

> > > > > they target

> > > > > > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of

chronic

> > > sinusitis.

> > > > > > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> > steroids

> > > > are the

> > > > > > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> > symptoms of

> > > the

> > > > > patient.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> > nasal

> > > washes

> > > > > and mist

> > > > > > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > > sinusitis,

> > > > > but do not

> > > > > > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > > > > Mayo Clinic

> > > > > > Rochester, Minnesota

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME]

an

> > > > > >

> > > > > > d fungal

> > > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stop press information

> > > > > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> > antifungal

> > > > drugs

> > > > > to treat

> > > > > > sinusitis.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [infections] info on

sinus

> > > bacteria

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that starts

in

> > the

> > > sinus

> > > > > area and

> > > > > > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that run

down

> > the

> > > > outside

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie showing a

> > person with

> > > > very

> > > > > clear

> > > > > > tracks that ran down the outside of his cheeks.

I

> > know

> > > that

> > > > > chlamydia

> > > > > > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

> persons

> > > head,

> > > > also

> > > > > at

> > > > > > the base of the spine. could this bacteria be

the

> > cause

> > > of

> > > > these

> > > > > > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone with

info

> or

> > > > comments,

> > > > > I need

> > > > > > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > > > >

July 24, 2005

No , I appreciate your feedback.

I think it was a typo that Barb typed.

I don’t think we have enough data on

patients with “true” rheumatic conditions and Western Blot tests to

know what antibodies might cross react w/some of the WB bands. We do know

that some with very high Rheumatoid Factors and high ANA’s do produce

extremely positive WB tests. I guess it could be argued that these folks

have a + RF and ANA due to Lyme, but there’s not much in the literature

to support that either. The fact of the matter is, it hasn’t really

been studied enough. They need to do Western Blots on a large group of

participants with known high ANA titers or known high RF titers & churn out

the data.

The overwhelming feeling of fatigue goes

back about 10 years. Sun sensitivity (no dermatologist knew what it was,

but I believe it was some sort of discoid lupus) for 15 years +. Woke up

one day in Sept 2001 UNABLE TO MOVE. Had NEVER had any sort of joint

pain, this was out of the blue. Couldn’t dress myself, or even get

out of bed for that matter.

Went down the lupus route. The

arsenals these days are still Prednisone, Placquenil (which I believe has been

a TREMENDOUS help), and then they start getting into bigger guns such as

Methotrexate, Cellcept (which interestingly is pretty well tolerated &

effective), Cytoxan, etc. Not to imply Prednisone isn’t a big gun….it’s

probably the worst of them all.

Infec. Diz. Dr. started me on Minocin

100mg 2X daily. No appreciable improvement at all. Note, I have

always stayed on the placquenil & have NO intention of ever stopping

it. I also did a stint with oral Biaxin. Now I’m on good ol

Penicillin/Diflucan/Green tea caps.

Interestingly, my Western Blot was much

more strikingly positive on the IGM side. Suggestive of long standing

ACTIVE disease, since I know I’ve had it at least 4 years. Probably

more. Genetics plays into this also. I have some very abnormal genetic

clotting factors that my ID Dr. said made me “fertile ground” for

my immune system not being able to clear this. I have done the heparin

trick in the past w/no appreciable improvement. I probably wasn’t

taking enough AB’s at the time.

ID Dr. remarks I don’t seem as “sick” as his other Lyme

patients. I think I could argue otherwise, when you have young children,

you will yourself to put one foot in front of the other. But, I actually

think the placquenil has helped me function a great deal better than I would’ve

otherwise.

Also of interest, I don’t seem to

have sx. of neuro lyme. My loved ones might argue otherwise, but I seem

to have dodged that bullet so far. All of my spelling errors & typos

are only b/c I’m a lousy typist and/or speller. I crunch numbers

all day long as a statistician & seem to handle this task without

effort. I hope it stays that way, although every time I can’t find

my keys, I get a little scared.

I have thus far resisted the big arsenals

the Rheumatologists have offered (except for large doses of Prednisone when I 1st

got sick), but when I look around me & see patients with RA or lupus living

pretty livable lives on Enbrel or Cellcept, I have to question if I’m

doing myself any favors by not pursuing this route. My daughter’s

teacher had juvenile RA, she has some long term damage from it. Enbrel

has literally turned around her life. She has so much energy, she’s

bouncing off the walls. PLEASE, spare the lectures on the long term side

effects of Enbrel. I fully understand them.

We are so full of inflammation……..that

is definitely something the rheumatic and Lyme patients have in common.

Simmering down the inflammatory side of things is very appealing to me.

It’s tough to do without heavy duty drugs though. I do agree with

the Marshall Protocol on some benefits of ARB’s or AI’s (at

therapeutic doses)………that is proving fruitful. They’re

also investigating the use of phosophodiesterase inhibitors which look

promising.

I really wish I did know more about the

cross reactivity of antibodies with Western Blot testing for Lyme. I

think there’s a lot we don’t know though.

Patrice

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of Schaafsma

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005

11:12 PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Re: Green tea inhances diflucan

Patrice, I'm pretty sure Barb

just mis-typed, and meant to say that

the specificity of certain bands for LYME is

really uncontested - we

have no contrary data, no explanation for how a

Lupus diagnosis, or

any other rheumatic condition, would produce

antibodies to those

specific antigen bands.

Of course, having Lyme and knowing that all your

symptoms are due to

Lyme is something else. How far back do your

symptoms go, in

relation to the date of that Lyme test?

A WB that strong might be described by some

observers as more

typical of early infection - that doesn't prove

anything, I haven't

seen any data that make that more than a

'tendency', and I suspect

there are multiple variables involved in when and

how the Immune

System kicks out antibodies.

But if you were symptomatic for several years

before the test...and

came back with those really high antibody

titers...well, its just

interesting to think about that.

I'm kind of curious, too, which Lyme abx regimens

you tried. There

was no evidence of anything at all but continued

deterioration when

I was on oral antibiotics. No reason to believe

that this treatment

was even really scratching the surface. That

changed with different

abx and modes of administration...

Are they doing something more for Lupus these days

than steroids?

Those are all just ' ruminates and tries to

think about what he

knows' questions...the only one that carries much

weight with me is

whether with the Fluconazole regimen you're going

to get the relief

you've been pursuing unsuccessfully. I hope you

do!

But if that turns out to disappoint, or leaves you

with only partial

improvements...and you've only tried oral

antibiotic

remedies...maybe it's worth thinking about taking

the next step, see

if a few months of IM Bicillin generates more of a

response, or one

of the IV drugs?

I apologize in advance if you've addressed all

these questions

before. Like I said, feel free to ignore any and

all of them.

S.

> > > >

> > Hello, Chronic sinusitis is fungal based...Fungi

down

> > > regulates

> > > >

> the immune

> > > >

> > system , in fact the latest drugs used to depress

the

> > IS in

> > > >

> transplant

> > > >

> > patients are fungal based. your bacterial

infection is

> > > >

> incidental .The

> > > >

> > hallmark of the condition is white or clear mucus..

> [is

> > it?]

> > > .

> > > > When

> > > >

> infected

> > > >

> > mucus is coloured by dead White blood cells , that

is

> > in a

> > > > normal

> > > >

> common or

> > > >

> > garden bacterial infection, a deep colour denotes

a

> > robust

> > > > Immune

> > > >

> response

> > > >

> > ..when infected with fungi our response is muted

> hence

> > the

> > > > lack

of

> > > >

> colour ,

> > > >

> > our IR is akikin to an allergic response to fungi

> > ..

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > > >

>

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Immunological down-regulation of host defences in

> > fungal

> > > >

> infections.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > JW.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Department of Microbiology and Immunology,

University

> > of

> > > > Oklahoma

> > > >

> Health

> > > >

> > Sciences Center, Oklahoma

City, USA.

juneann-

> > murphy@o...

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Fungal pathogens use multiple virulence factors to

> > cause

> > > >

> progressive

> > > >

> > disease. A mechanism that could be regarded as a

> > virulence

> > > > factor

> > > >

> is the

> > > >

> > fungal pathogen's ability to evade or down-

regulate

> > host

> > > >

protective

> > > >

> > mechanisms.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > PMID: 10865902 [MEDLINE]

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > See also Medline 11098625, 11387665, 11437340

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Mayo Clinic researchers have proposed that most

> chronic

> > > sinus

> > > >

> infections may

> > > > >

> be caused by an immune system response to fungi.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > * Article in Mayo

> > > >

> <http://www.mayo.edu/proceedings/1999/7409a1.pdf>

> > > >

> > Clinic Proceedings

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Many studies here at the Mayo Clinic have added

> > evidence to

> > > our

> > > >

> thinking

> > > >

> > that chronic rhinosinusitis is caused by an immune

> > reaction

> > > to

> > > >

> fungi in the

> > > >

> > nose. Our original study linking chronic

> > rhinosinusitis to

> > > > fungi

> > > >

> in the

> > > >

> > nose, which was published in the Mayo Clinic

> > Proceedings in

> > > >

> September 1999,

> > > >

> > has been reproduced and confirmed by a sinus

center in

> > > Europe

> > > > (ENT

> > > >

> > University Hospital in Graz,

Austria).

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > There are currently 16 studies at Mayo Clinic

> > Rochester

to

> > > >

further

> > > >

> > investigate the role of fungi in inflammatory

> diseases

> > of

> > > the

> > > >

> respiratory

> > > >

> > tract.

> > > >

> > In addition, researchers from the Allergic

Diseases

> > Research

> > > >

> Laboratory at

> > > >

> > the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

found that certain

white

> > blood

> > > > cells

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > called T-Lymphocytes are reacting to the fungi and

> were

> > > >

producing

> > > >

> the kind

> > > >

> > of inflammation we see in the sinuses, and that

> healthy

> > > people

> > > > did

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > not react in that way. This work was presented at

the

> > 2001

> > > > Annual

> > > >

> Meeting of

> > > >

> > the American Academy

of Allergy, Asthma and

> Immunology

> > and

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > will be published soon.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > The evidence was so convincing that the National

> > Institute

> > > of

> > > >

> Health

> > > >

> > (NIH)has given Mayo Clinic a $2.5 million grant to

> > further

> > > >

> investigate the

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > mechanisms behind this immunologic response to

the

> > fungi.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > If you have chronic sinusitis-that is, a sinus

> > inflammation

> > > > that

> > > >

> persists

> > > >

> > for three months or longer-we recommend that you

see

> > your

> > > >

personal

> > > >

> > physician or an ear, nose and throat specialist

> > > >

> (otorhinolaryngologist) for

> > > >

> > the appropriate treatment for this disease. Many

> times

> > the

> > > > disease

> > > >

> is

> > > >

> > associated with asthma or allergies and treatment

of

> > those

> > > >

> associated

> > > >

> > problems tends to help the chronic sinusitis.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Antibiotics don't help chronic sinusitis in the

long

> > run

> > > >

because

> > > >

> they target

> > > >

> > bacteria, which are not usually the cause of

chronic

> > > sinusitis.

> > > >

> > Anti-histamines, nasal steroid sprays and systemic

> > steroids

> > > > are

the

> > > >

> > mainstays of treatment today, depending on the

> > symptoms of

> > > the

> > > >

> patient.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Over-the-counter medications, including salt-water

> > nasal

> > > washes

> > > >

> and mist

> > > >

> > sprays, are useful in treating the symptoms of

chronic

> > > >

sinusitis,

> > > >

> but do not

> > > >

> > eliminate the inflammation.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Dept of Otorhinolaryngology

> > > >

> > Mayo Clinic

> > > >

> > Rochester,

Minnesota

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > This latest report supports the link with CFS [ME]

an

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > d fungal

> > > infectionhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3141773.stm

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > Stop press information

> > > >

> >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040324072619.htm

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > See Medline 12464951 for results of a study using

> > antifungal

> > > > drugs

> > > >

> to treat

> > > >

> > sinusitis.

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > [infections] info on

sinus

> > > bacteria

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> > I need info on a bacteria or fungus that

starts

in

> > the

> > > sinus

> > > >

> area and

> > > >

> > later can be seen as bacterial tracks that

run

down

> > the

> > > >

outside

> > > >

> of the

> > > >

> > cheeks. I seen a 1938 medical movie

showing a

> > person with

> > > > very

> > > >

> clear

> > > >

> > tracks that ran down the outside of his

cheeks.

I

> > know

> > > that

> > > >

> chlamydia

> > > >

> > bacteria can set up as cysts on the side of a

> persons

> > > head,

> > > > also

> > > >

> at

> > > >

> > the base of the spine. could this bacteria

be

the

> > cause

> > > of

> > > > these

> > > >

> > tracks, growing down the cheeks. anyone

with

info

> or

> > > >

comments,

> > > >

> I need

> > > >

> > to hear your thoughts. Jimd

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

> > > >

> >

Sign In

Green tea inhances diflucan

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Activity