How much D to take to reach Optimal Levels (per Dr. Mercola, MD)

[Guest guest]

Oops thus URL requires logon. I reposted it to:

http://cfsgroups.org/discussion/view_topic.php?id=9717 & forum_id=13

Table is also at:

http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/vitamin_d.htm

--- In , " Ken " <ken_lassesen@y...>

> http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?id=4240 & forum_id=1

>

> A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to reach

Dr.

> Mercola recommended levels.

[Guest guest]

Here is a link to Mercola on D supplementation. He makes two

interesting points.

1. Vitamin D supplements are not safe. One should take fish oil, and

not too much Cod liver oil if one lives in a sunny climate.

2. Some people with certain diseases should avoid D. Since this

includes sarcoidosis and borrelia are found sometimes in sarcoidosis I

think the debate is still open whether D supplementation in any form

is good for Lyme disease patients.

a Carnes

http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm

Vitamin D Toxicity

First, let me state that there are two types of vitamin D supplements:

vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) which comes from fish oil and plant

source D2 (ergocalciferol), which is found in fortified foods and some

supplements. D2, found in plants and made active by irradiation, is

less biologically active.

Vitamin D3 is found in eggs, organ meats, animal fat, cod liver oil

and fish. It is the equivalent to the vitamin D3 formed on our skins

from UV-B. You should stay away from the synthetic D2 as it is the one

that has been shown to have toxicity at the higher dose ranges. You

will only want to use vitamin D3.

There are newer reasons why vitamin D2 has a greater potential for

harm. First, vitamin D binding protein has a weaker affinity for the

vitamin D2 metabolites than vitamin D3. Second, unique biologically

active metabolites are produced in humans from vitamin D2, but there

are no analogous metabolites derived from vitamin D3.

There is no doubt that vitamin D2 is a synthetic analogue of vitamin

D, with different characteristics. It is inappropriate to regard

vitamin D2 as a vitamin. Future research into the toxicity of this

vitamin needs to focus on vitamin D3 as being something distinct from

vitamin D2, for which almost all our current toxicity data relate to.

People Who Should Avoid Vitamin D

If you have sarcoidosis, tuberculosis, or lymphoma it would be best

for you to avoid vitamin D supplementation based on this test. It is

recommended that you perform 1,25(OH)D test before you supplement with

any sun exposure or oral vitamin D.

Cod Liver Oil

First of all let me warn you that if you have sub-tropical or summer

sun exposure I do NOT advise any vitamin D supplementation unless you

perform the above described test.

Having said that let me emphasize that the vast majority of the

readers of this newsletter can not possibly receive enough UV-B to

generate vitamin D from September to May.

This is certainly true for just about the entire US and all of Europe.

Please remember that just because it is sunny and hot outside this is

absolutely no indication of the UV-B level that is present. If your

latitude is above 30 degrees north or below 30 degrees south, you will

likely benefit from vitamin D supplementation from September to May.

Mercola

> Oops thus URL requires logon. I reposted it to:

>

> http://cfsgroups.org/discussion/view_topic.php?id=9717 & forum_id=13

>

> Table is also at:

>

> http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/vitamin_d.htm

>

> --- In , " Ken " <ken_lassesen@y...>

> > http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?id=4240 & forum_id=1

> >

> > A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to reach

> Dr.

> > Mercola recommended levels.

[Guest guest]

Actually, he states that vitamin D2 is not safe - " vitamin D3 as

being something distinct from vitamin D2 " and D2 is what can result

in toxicity. D3 is safe, it " comes from fish oil " . You need to check

the label carefully --- D2 is cheaper to produce and hence, if it

does not say which type -- assume it is D2 and avoid it.

However for fish oil -- he recommends only one brand, the one that HE

SELLS (http://www.mercola.com/forms/faq/carlsons.htm ), so I think we

need to take a grain of salt with his comments...

The other thing to avoid is 1,25D supplements -- 1,25D is the active

form that the body produces to deal with infections and other needs.

The best analogy is insulin --- if you inject insulin you disrupts

the body natural equivibrium [and can lead to death], but at the same

time (like with 1,25D) to intentionally disrupt the body by trying to

drop the insulin level is also dangerous ---

As an example of the degree of impact that Vitamin D can have:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/12/09/cancer.vitamind.ap/

* 645IU of D intake --> 40% drop in Colon Cancer

From:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=2572900 & dopt=Abstract

Risk of colon cancer was reduced by:

* 75% for people with levels of 27-32 ng/ml for serum 25-OHD.

* 80% for people with levels of 33-41 ng/ml for serum 25-OHD.

" Risk of getting colon cancer decreased three-fold in people with a

serum 25-OHD concentration of 20 ng/ml or more. "

Which implies that someone intentionally going for low D levels and

dropping their 25D level below 20ng/ml is increasing their colon

cancer risk by THREE FOLD.

> > Oops thus URL requires logon. I reposted it to:

> >

> > http://cfsgroups.org/discussion/view_topic.php?id=9717 & forum_id=13

> >

> > Table is also at:

> >

> > http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/vitamin_d.htm

> >

> > --- In , " Ken "

<ken_lassesen@y...>

> > > http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?

id=4240 & forum_id=1

> > >

> > > A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to

reach

> > Dr.

> > > Mercola recommended levels.

[Guest guest]

For anyone that is interested I've posted at

http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?id=4240 & forum_id=1

A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to reach Dr.

Mercola recommended levels.

Ken Lassesen

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I've been looking at the D3 connection, not least due to the

auto-immunity aspect which is a probable contributor it seems to my ME.

In the UK I have been able to source D3 Cholecalciferol drops from

lanolin or D3 from fishoil. I am no use with oils - especially fishoils

and the drops are in such a tiny bottle that to get a reasonable daily

intake would take about a bottle a week. I have found 'Vitamin

Research' cholcaliferol made from ergot - so if Mercola is right, isn't

this a contradiction in terms - it's either ergocalciferol (D2) and

therefore more toxic and less effective or it's what? -- will someone

please explain?

Rosie

(per Dr. Mercola, MD)

Actually, he states that vitamin D2 is not safe - " vitamin D3 as

being something distinct from vitamin D2 " and D2 is what can result

in toxicity. D3 is safe, it " comes from fish oil " . You need to check

the label carefully --- D2 is cheaper to produce and hence, if it

does not say which type -- assume it is D2 and avoid it.

However for fish oil -- he recommends only one brand, the one that HE

SELLS (http://www.mercola.com/forms/faq/carlsons.htm ), so I think we

need to take a grain of salt with his comments...

The other thing to avoid is 1,25D supplements -- 1,25D is the active

form that the body produces to deal with infections and other needs.

The best analogy is insulin --- if you inject insulin you disrupts

the body natural equivibrium [and can lead to death], but at the same

time (like with 1,25D) to intentionally disrupt the body by trying to

drop the insulin level is also dangerous ---

As an example of the degree of impact that Vitamin D can have:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/12/09/cancer.vitamind.ap/

* 645IU of D intake --> 40% drop in Colon Cancer

From:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=2572900 & dopt=Abstract

Risk of colon cancer was reduced by:

* 75% for people with levels of 27-32 ng/ml for serum 25-OHD.

* 80% for people with levels of 33-41 ng/ml for serum 25-OHD.

" Risk of getting colon cancer decreased three-fold in people with a

serum 25-OHD concentration of 20 ng/ml or more. "

Which implies that someone intentionally going for low D levels and

dropping their 25D level below 20ng/ml is increasing their colon

cancer risk by THREE FOLD.

> > Oops thus URL requires logon. I reposted it to:

> >

> > http://cfsgroups.org/discussion/view_topic.php?id=9717 & forum_id=13

> >

> > Table is also at:

> >

> > http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/vitamin_d.htm

> >

> > --- In , " Ken "

<ken_lassesen@y...>

> > > http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?

id=4240 & forum_id=1

> > >

> > > A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to

reach

> > Dr.

> > > Mercola recommended levels.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Cheney put me on Tyler Eskimo-3 Fish Oil.

Katrina

> Actually, he states that vitamin D2 is not safe - " vitamin D3 as

> being something distinct from vitamin D2 " and D2 is what can result

> in toxicity. D3 is safe, it " comes from fish oil " . You need to check

> the label carefully --- D2 is cheaper to produce and hence, if it

> does not say which type -- assume it is D2 and avoid it.

>

> However for fish oil -- he recommends only one brand, the one that HE

> SELLS (http://www.mercola.com/forms/faq/carlsons.htm ), so I think we

> need to take a grain of salt with his comments...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'd like to post my experience with my levels of 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D.

On May 7, 2003 my levels were at " 25 " with the reference range being

25-200 umol/L. I was given 2000mg Vitamin D daily for 2 months, 1

capusule of Nordic Naturals ProEPA/day and ate a can or two of

sardines weekly.

On April 19, 2004 my Vit D levels went up to " 36 " . So it took one

year to get my levels up, mind you this was during the winter months

and I live in Canada.

My Calcium levels also went back up to " normal " .

My sleep has been very good since 1 1/2 years- with no meds.

Nat

[Guest guest]

Ken, that is what I understood also. But he did say if you live in

the sunny parts of the earth you don't want to use COD liver oil. He

also mentions 3 diseases where supplementing D in any form in not

good. I think the real debate then is this: Are there any other

diseases that also fit this category? "

a

> > > Oops thus URL requires logon. I reposted it to:

> > >

> > > http://cfsgroups.org/discussion/view_topic.php?

id=9717 & forum_id=13

> > >

> > > Table is also at:

> > >

> > > http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/vitamin_d.htm

> > >

> > > --- In , " Ken "

> <ken_lassesen@y...>

> > > > http://www.accidentalpatient.com/view_topic.php?

> id=4240 & forum_id=1

> > > >

> > > > A table of current Vitamin D level, and dosages suggested to

> reach

> > > Dr.

> > > > Mercola recommended levels.

[Guest guest]

If you don't mind, I would be interested in more details of your

illness and ongoing symptoms. Also, did you ever get your 1,25 D level

tested?

I have always slept well but have lots of other symptoms. (Actually do

very well on antibiotics but never completely recover. I have

mycoplasma and borrelia.)

a

> Hi,

>

> I'd like to post my experience with my levels of 25 Hydroxy Vitamin

D.

>

> On May 7, 2003 my levels were at " 25 " with the reference range being

> 25-200 umol/L. I was given 2000mg Vitamin D daily for 2 months, 1

> capusule of Nordic Naturals ProEPA/day and ate a can or two of

> sardines weekly.

> On April 19, 2004 my Vit D levels went up to " 36 " . So it took one

> year to get my levels up, mind you this was during the winter months

> and I live in Canada.

> My Calcium levels also went back up to " normal " .

>

> My sleep has been very good since 1 1/2 years- with no meds.

>

> Nat

[Guest guest]

I think you are predisposed to look for negative things on this issue? He

doesn't say that Vitamin D supplements are not safe. Yes, he says people with

certain illnesses should not supplement. But I never see the words " Vitamin D

supplements are not safe " or anything like that. What he says is he doesn't

like D2 supplements but believes D3 is probably better than D2.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: pjeanneus

Here is a link to Mercola on D supplementation. He makes two

interesting points.

1. Vitamin D supplements are not safe. One should take fish oil, and

not too much Cod liver oil if one lives in a sunny climate.

2. Some people with certain diseases should avoid D. Since this

includes sarcoidosis and borrelia are found sometimes in sarcoidosis I

think the debate is still open whether D supplementation in any form

is good for Lyme disease patients.

http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm

[Guest guest]

Ken, that is what I understood also. But he did say if you live in

the sunny parts of the earth you don't want to use COD liver oil. He

also mentions 3 diseases where supplementing D in any form in not

good. I think the real debate then is this: Are there any other

diseases that also fit this category? "

a

a,

I don't get 'why' that would be an issue on a CFS and FM list? It seems to be

very good for our illnesses based on the experiences of those I've known. Why

would we have to debate here what is good for all other diseases?

Marcia

[Guest guest]

a,

My illness started in 1991, sudden " viral onset " . Woke up one

morning with my head spinning. I was tested and had very high anti-

thyroid and microsomial antibodies during this time and went downhill

from there; had alot of different symptoms. Thyroid scan showed

normal but the endocrinologist told me that I had " viral

thyroiditis " .

I started to improved a year later, went back to work and relapsed

after 3 1/2 weeks. Spent the next 5 1/2 yrs in bed.

Starting improving again around the 6th year (without any type of

supplements or treatments) and relapsed after taking Transfer Factor.

Never got back to base since then.

I never had sleep problems with CFS until around 3 years ago.

Had panel of tests done in 2003, organic acids, fatty acids, amino

acids, oxidative stress test, antioxidant test and iron metabolism.

Plus all the basic tests, Vit D, Ferritin, Calcium, Copper etc.,

everything was very low and below normal.

I've always had problems with low ferritin levels and I benefit from

taking iron/vitC capsules.

I can't say for positively sure but I believe that the mag/taurine

injections, NeuroReplete forumulas and taking a Custom made formula

for 2 months to build up my amino acids, vitamins and minerals helped

improve my sleep and my overall well being.

Nat

[Guest guest]

Mercola writes:

" Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and can be quite toxic. Once you

have vitamin D toxicity you can't easily turn it around. "

and

" If you have sub-tropical or summer sun exposure on your skin it will

be wise to avoid any oral vitamin D supplementation unless you

regularly monitor your vitamin D blood level. However the vast

majority of people in the U.S. can not possibly receive enough UV-B

to generate vitamin D from September to mid April.

Your best choice for obtaining supplemental vitamin D3 would be to

use a high quality cod liver oil. "

I remain, as always, predisposed to look for facts. Please excuse if

I have misrepresented Mercola. You decide.

a Carnes

> I think you are predisposed to look for negative things on this

issue? He doesn't say that Vitamin D supplements are not safe. Yes,

he says people with certain illnesses should not supplement. But I

never see the words " Vitamin D supplements are not safe " or anything

like that. What he says is he doesn't like D2 supplements but

believes D3 is probably better than D2.

>

> Doris

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: pjeanneus

>

> Here is a link to Mercola on D supplementation. He makes two

> interesting points.

> 1. Vitamin D supplements are not safe. One should take fish oil,

and

> not too much Cod liver oil if one lives in a sunny climate.

> 2. Some people with certain diseases should avoid D. Since this

> includes sarcoidosis and borrelia are found sometimes in

sarcoidosis I

> think the debate is still open whether D supplementation in any

form

> is good for Lyme disease patients.

>

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/23/vitamin_d_deficiency.htm

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marcia,

One reason that occurs to me is that there are studies showing that

sarcoidosis patients have borrelia in their lungs. I have borrelia.

BTW in case some of you want to spend your time attacking me, I think

you should know that I have been banned from the Marshall Protocol

website. Can you guys give me a break and some respect for having

spent several years as a patient advocate, always trying to respect

everyone, and working along with the rest of you to find some

effective treatment? I was banned from the MP site because I refuse

to stop asking the tough questions. I actually find it amusing at

times, especially when I first saw my name, a former moderator, with

the big BANNED word. ROTFLMBO

I happen to think that sarcoidosis could very well be related to Lyme

disease and CFIDS. Marcia your personal experience is very

interesting. If you can give me more information on it I would love

to read such.

I have some theories of my own on the role of D in inflammation. One

of them is that we are going to have to distinguish who is mostly

infected with intracellular BACTERIA and who is mostly infected with

a virus.

Then we are going to have to come to terms with the reality that what

is good for us, the D hormone, can sometimes go into overload mode

like spinning wheels and may become harmful. None of this is simple,

and I am not trying to say it is. I am just trying to ask the

questions that need to be asked.

a Carnes

pj7@...

>

>

> Ken, that is what I understood also. But he did say if you live

in

> the sunny parts of the earth you don't want to use COD liver oil.

He

> also mentions 3 diseases where supplementing D in any form in not

> good. I think the real debate then is this: Are there any other

> diseases that also fit this category? "

>

> a

>

> a,

>

> I don't get 'why' that would be an issue on a CFS and FM list? It

seems to be very good for our illnesses based on the experiences of

those I've known. Why would we have to debate here what is good for

all other diseases?

>

> Marcia

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Nat, for writing all the details. Boy, it does sound like

your case MAY be mostly viral. Did they ever treat you with protease

inhibitors? Have you ever been tested for hepatitis or HHV6?

It would be interesting to see what your D hormone, called 1,25 D

measures. If it is very low, like 0 to 20, this might indicate that

you have a serious viral infection. IF THIS IS TRUE, there is an

interesting product you can mail order from Panama called Zadaxin.

You have to get a prescription but then they can send it to you. It

is made by a US company called SciClone. I took it six months and it

did nothing for me, but I think it is not effective for bacteria, and

could have been the worst thing I ever took. LOL

If you decide to get your 1,25 D level measured be sure to find a lab

that sends it off frozen, otherwise it will be completely inaccurate

and meaningless. You don't want to come back with a zero and think

you have some horrible virus when you don't.

a

> a,

>

> My illness started in 1991, sudden " viral onset " . Woke up one

> morning with my head spinning. I was tested and had very high anti-

> thyroid and microsomial antibodies during this time and went

downhill

> from there; had alot of different symptoms. Thyroid scan showed

> normal but the endocrinologist told me that I had " viral

> thyroiditis " .

> I started to improved a year later, went back to work and relapsed

> after 3 1/2 weeks. Spent the next 5 1/2 yrs in bed.

> Starting improving again around the 6th year (without any type of

> supplements or treatments) and relapsed after taking Transfer

Factor.

> Never got back to base since then.

>

> I never had sleep problems with CFS until around 3 years ago.

> Had panel of tests done in 2003, organic acids, fatty acids, amino

> acids, oxidative stress test, antioxidant test and iron metabolism.

> Plus all the basic tests, Vit D, Ferritin, Calcium, Copper etc.,

> everything was very low and below normal.

>

> I've always had problems with low ferritin levels and I benefit

from

> taking iron/vitC capsules.

>

> I can't say for positively sure but I believe that the mag/taurine

> injections, NeuroReplete forumulas and taking a Custom made formula

> for 2 months to build up my amino acids, vitamins and minerals

helped

> improve my sleep and my overall well being.

>

> Nat

[Guest guest]

Nat or anyone who knows-is it a good idea to take Vit C w/ iron?

Thanks,

Mike C

> I've always had problems with low ferritin levels and I benefit from

> taking iron/vitC capsules.

[Guest guest]

Mike,

Yes absolutely, vitamin C increases the absorption of iron. The

perfect ratio for absorption is what I bought through a compounding

pharmacy ---> 27mg Iron and 110 mg Vitamin C in each capsule.

Don't take iron with calcium though, it inhibits the absorption.

Nat

> Nat or anyone who knows-is it a good idea to take Vit C w/ iron?

> Thanks,

>

> Mike C

[Guest guest]

Thanks, a.

No I've not been treated with protease inhibitors, I'm kind of nervous

to try new things now because of the reaction (and relapse) I got from

taking Transfer Factor and Immunovir : / Noone including the

virologist could tell me what really happened.

I was tested for Hepatitis B and C. Hmm, the PCR testing I had done

were for mycoplasma, herpes virus, enterovirus and parovirus.

I may have the specialized HHV6 test done in the US later. I got a

test kit years ago through Viacor but I think they have since closed

and there is a better lab to do the HHV6 testing.

Thanks for the info on Zadaxin, I will do some research on it.

Nat

[Guest guest]

You are welcome. It would be real interesting to see what your 1,25 D

level is. If it is very low that would at least be a clue that you do

have a viral thing going on. But who knows. So much of this is us

patients just putting pieces together and trying to find anything that

helps.

a

> Thanks, a.

> No I've not been treated with protease inhibitors, I'm kind of

nervous

> to try new things now because of the reaction (and relapse) I got

from

> taking Transfer Factor and Immunovir : / Noone including the

> virologist could tell me what really happened.

> I was tested for Hepatitis B and C. Hmm, the PCR testing I had

done

> were for mycoplasma, herpes virus, enterovirus and parovirus.

>

> I may have the specialized HHV6 test done in the US later. I got a

> test kit years ago through Viacor but I think they have since closed

> and there is a better lab to do the HHV6 testing.

>

> Thanks for the info on Zadaxin, I will do some research on it.

>

> Nat

[Guest guest]

a,

Do you have any medline citations supporting this: " If it is very

low, like 0 to 20, this might indicate that you have a serious viral

infection. " ?

My impression is that there is far too a simplistic model of 1,25D

floating around.

--------------------------------------------

Also concerning 1,25D testing , you should get your Vitamin D levels

up to optimal FIRST, since low vitamin 25D levels is reported to

cause ELEVATED 1,25D levels -- hence you do not want to get

artificially high 1,25D levels because you are 25D deficient.

" as a person becomes vitamin D-deficient, there is an increase in the

concentration of parathyroid hormone (PTH), which increases the renal

production of 1,25(OH)2D, the circulating concentrations of which

often become normal or even elevated "

Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1

diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis, American Journal of

Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 79, No. 3, 362-371, March 2004 The full text

is available at: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/3/362

On the other hand, taking 25D WILL NOT raise 1,25D, same article as

above states (citing three studies):

" neither increased exposure to sunlight nor increased oral intake of

vitamin D raised blood concentrations of 1,25(OH)2D "

It may actually drop it -- a post from a sarc patient on I & I2 pointed

to a study where that actually happened - 25D supplementation dropped

1,25D levels for the normal population).

[Guest guest]

Yes,

Vitamin C, Vitamin A and Vitamin D all increase Iron absorption, as

well as taurine (not at the same time).

The usual normal range according to NIH are:

* male: 12-300 ng/ml

* female: 12-150 ng/ml

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003490.htm

which adds " The lower the ferritin level, even within the " normal "

range, the more likely a patient is iron deficient. " - and this is

NIH speaking.

There ARE some recommendations for ferritin levels:

* " optimal levels of serum ferritin 200-500µg/L "

* CANADA: ferritin <100ng/ml consider iron supplementation

* US: -To achieve and maintain the target haemoglobin, iron should be

administered to maintain ... serum ferritin > 100ng/ml.

From http://www.kdigo.org/guidelines/content-targetiron.htm

For those that are vegetarians with CFIDS, iron supplements and

regular monitoring of ferritin is well recommended.

As a FYI, low ferretin levels is assocaited with Restless Leg

Syndrome.

> Nat or anyone who knows-is it a good idea to take Vit C w/ iron?

> Thanks,

>

> Mike C

[Guest guest]

Now you sound like me. I agree we are all oversimpifying. Here are

two links. I think it would be low with cancer also. I think you

agree. Someone suggested that protease inhibitors would lower the D

hormone. I haven't read the entire studies to see if they eliminated

that variable. My son had his 1,25 D tested,he has Lyme. It was

extremely high, but he has no symptoms of Lyme at this time - none.

So I asked him if he had a cold when his blood was drawn. He did.

Just another clue that the hormone 1,25 D is needed in a healthy

person to fight viruses and cancer. I actually don't know if lowering

it by sun avoidance and D avoidance will help sarc and Lyme. I don't

know. We may know in another year. Wouldn't that be nice?

a

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/0E35D78C-769C-47B2-9E4A-

EF20C07E890E.asp

Haug compared 54 people with HIV with non-HIV-infected controls. 29

(54%) of the HIV-positive group were deficient in 1,25-

dihyroxyvitamin D3 in contrast to the control group who had normal

levels of the metabolite and vitamin D binding protein. The HIV-

infected group had 18 people with undetectable levels of the

metabolite and this was associated with advanced HIV-infection, low

CD4 count and high blood levels of TNF alpha. Researchers concluded

that the deficiency was possibly induced by an inhibitory effect of

TNF alpha and that low levels of 1,25-dihyroxyvitamin D3 and high

levels of TNF alpha may be an important feature of HIV disease

pathogenesis.

Vieth reported that a dose of vitamin D of over 100 mu g is required

to achieve adequate levels of vitamin in the blood. Toxicity is not

associated with this dose.

Severe Deficiency of 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 in Human

Immunodeficiency

Virus Infection: Association with Immunological Hyperactivity and

Only Minor

Changes in Calcium Homeostasis

Charlotte J. Haug, Pål Aukrust, Egil Haug, Lars Mørkrid, Fredrik

Müller and

Stig S. Frøland The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

Vol. 83,

No. 11 3832-3838 Copyright © 1998 by The Endocrine Society

> a,

> Do you have any medline citations supporting this: " If it is very

> low, like 0 to 20, this might indicate that you have a serious

viral

> infection. " ?

> My impression is that there is far too a simplistic model of 1,25D

> floating around.

>

> --------------------------------------------

> Also concerning 1,25D testing , you should get your Vitamin D

levels

> up to optimal FIRST, since low vitamin 25D levels is reported to

> cause ELEVATED 1,25D levels -- hence you do not want to get

> artificially high 1,25D levels because you are 25D deficient.

>

> " as a person becomes vitamin D-deficient, there is an increase in

the

> concentration of parathyroid hormone (PTH), which increases the

renal

> production of 1,25(OH)2D, the circulating concentrations of which

> often become normal or even elevated "

>

> Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1

> diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis, American Journal of

> Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 79, No. 3, 362-371, March 2004 The full

text

> is available at: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/3/362

>

> On the other hand, taking 25D WILL NOT raise 1,25D, same article as

> above states (citing three studies):

>

> " neither increased exposure to sunlight nor increased oral intake of

> vitamin D raised blood concentrations of 1,25(OH)2D "

>

> It may actually drop it -- a post from a sarc patient on I & I2

pointed

> to a study where that actually happened - 25D supplementation

dropped

> 1,25D levels for the normal population).

[Guest guest]

This is an old post of 's that I saved. Since it was

posted publicly at an old list that shall remain nameless I think it

is ok to repost it here.

a

" I'm assuming whoever has anemia, they have ruled out all other

possible causes of anemia and they don't know what's causing it.

We do see anemia in individuals with chronic inflammatory

illnesses. I don't know all of the factors as to why this occurs.

Like so many things, there's probably several factors involved.

Our body does sequester iron as a response to bacterial

infections...this is because many bacterial microbes need iron to

survive.

I'm not sure if the pathogens we are dealing with in these acquired

chronic inflammatory diseases actually needs iron or not.

There are some studies showing the borrelia does not need iron to

survive...but that's work is done in vitro, not in vivo....which is

a big difference.

If the body is sequestering iron as a defense mechanism against

these pathogens, then supplementation would be contraindicated.

If these pathogens don't need iron and the sequestering response is

not useful, then supplementation might not hurt.

I agree with ****. I'd focus on treating the underlying disease

and see if that doesn't help the iron levels stabilize. "

> > Nat or anyone who knows-is it a good idea to take Vit C w/ iron?

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Mike C

[Guest guest]

Good citation --- but it is for only one specific type of viral

infection, and one that has been aggressively active for a long

time. More importantly, the patients appear to be vitamin D

deficient (since they were being supplemented).

With hyper-coagulation, long term activation can result in

exhaustion, i.e. DIC (i.e. inability to coagulate) --- so it is still

unclear is another viral infection will respond in the same way --

dropping 1,25D **IMMEDIATELY** or if that happens only after it goes

thru the roof and becomes exhaused later (and allowing the infection

to become chronic because there is no longer a 1,25D response to

inhibit it).

All questions on detail actions and responses which is still unclear.

On the plus side, EBV has been associated with many cancers and MS,

and vitamin D reduces cancer risk and MS risk --- so there is an

inference that Vitamin D is factor for that virus.

> Now you sound like me. I agree we are all oversimpifying. Here are

> two links. I think it would be low with cancer also. I think you

> agree. Someone suggested that protease inhibitors would lower the D

> hormone. I haven't read the entire studies to see if they

eliminated

> that variable. My son had his 1,25 D tested,he has Lyme. It was

> extremely high, but he has no symptoms of Lyme at this time - none.

> So I asked him if he had a cold when his blood was drawn. He did.

> Just another clue that the hormone 1,25 D is needed in a healthy

> person to fight viruses and cancer. I actually don't know if

lowering

> it by sun avoidance and D avoidance will help sarc and Lyme. I

don't

> know. We may know in another year. Wouldn't that be nice?

> a

>

> http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/0E35D78C-769C-47B2-9E4A-

> EF20C07E890E.asp

>

> Haug compared 54 people with HIV with non-HIV-infected controls. 29

> (54%) of the HIV-positive group were deficient in 1,25-

> dihyroxyvitamin D3 in contrast to the control group who had normal

> levels of the metabolite and vitamin D binding protein. The HIV-

> infected group had 18 people with undetectable levels of the

> metabolite and this was associated with advanced HIV-infection, low

> CD4 count and high blood levels of TNF alpha. Researchers concluded

> that the deficiency was possibly induced by an inhibitory effect of

> TNF alpha and that low levels of 1,25-dihyroxyvitamin D3 and high

> levels of TNF alpha may be an important feature of HIV disease

> pathogenesis.

>

> Vieth reported that a dose of vitamin D of over 100 mu g is

required

> to achieve adequate levels of vitamin in the blood. Toxicity is not

> associated with this dose.

>

>

> Severe Deficiency of 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 in Human

> Immunodeficiency

> Virus Infection: Association with Immunological Hyperactivity and

> Only Minor

> Changes in Calcium Homeostasis

>

> Charlotte J. Haug, Pål Aukrust, Egil Haug, Lars Mørkrid, Fredrik

> Müller and

> Stig S. Frøland The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

> Vol. 83,

> No. 11 3832-3838 Copyright © 1998 by The Endocrine Society

>